What I’ve learned about being a Delaware Liberal
I have learned theat both sides have hyper partisan people that are willing to attack and defend the messenger no matter who it is. It’s all fine when it is directed at the other side, but when you start questioning, honest questioning of people that are supposed to be on your “side” people can get very uptight. Down right angry and nasty.
What I find the most amusing is that it exists on both sides, but both sides don’t see it that way. They are too busy pointing fingers to notice the plank in their own eye. We had it here and yesterday I was the victim of a few waves of incorrect assumptions. What I find amazing is the willingness to go on the offense and assume that questioning what someone has done is a direct attack on their record.
I think we can tell who the Democrats are on this blog. Me, I’m a delaware liberal. I’m registered Independent and have been since I served my country under Clinton. I chose that affilitation for a reason. Because I don’t buy into either side. I can’t remember what I voted for last November, but half a billion dollars bought me. It bought my vote and I’m not so sure I’m getting what I wanted out of it. Though, the people that bought my vote sure are.
Can anyone remember how frenzied we were over that Illegal war? Anyone venture to guess how many troops we have over there? oh, I already here the apologists on the left. Iraq is a mess, we can’t just leave. Or, “we are leaving and have scaled back” Want to take a guess to what we have scaled back to? Pre Surge numbers. Yep, awesome huh. Campaign promise 1, check! Oh, those troops that we were crying are serving 4 and 5 tours in Iraq, they are being sent to Afghanistan now. You know, Afghanistan, that place where the current election is raught with fraud. The president’s own brother is a huge herion warlord and the Taliban is back to almost pre war numbers. Yep, it’s ok.
I remember learning that Shakespeare would throw in sex and drunk jokes just so the lower class people would be interested in his plays. I get the same feeling that the little shit our house and senate are doing smack of the same odious logic. Throw the peasants crumbs and they will be happy.
We are waging 2 wars right now and there is no end in sight for either one. I have a short memory though, one of the candidates that I think got elected was hell bent on rectifying that problem. No marching, no uproar. Here we sit, listening to the same bullshit we listened to under bush. This time though, O is listening and thinking. Awesome, anyone care to guess how many more soldiers have died this week while we wait to see who the next president of Afghanistan is?
I’m just glad I’m not gay. Not because I wouldn’t get laid mind you. Because I could. I wouldn’t even need a wide stance to do it. I’d be pissed because I was told that I was going to be placed along side other citizens of this country. Even black ones. Can you imagine being told that the President doesn’t want to waste his political capital on you? How about a fellow gay guy telling you that marching in Washington is a bad idea and a waste of time. Now that is the sort of respect a block of voters that helped get the president elected deserves. DADT could easily be reversed. In one fell swoop he could say. OVER and it would be. Nahhhh, we have to think about it more. What a crock of shit.
Anyone see that the DOW is back to 10,000. NO, you haven’t seen it all over the news. Now juxtapose that with 10% u/e (before you factor in discouraged folks and part timers) Take a look at those bank stocks. Know where they were when O took office? around $2.00, Now 15x’s that in some case. SWEET! A turn around is just days away. Let’s not get upset or pissed when we learn Geithner has been on the horn 80 times in the past 11 months with Goldman, B of A, Chase and several other TARP recipients.
Oh but weight, Obama got the auto industry to make their cars get better fuel mileage…in 2016? I’m so tired of this bullshit from both sides. If they really wanted it done when it comes to ending the war(S) they could. If they wanted to regulate the banks they could have. If they wanted a public option they could have. Hell Markell could do something like Mass and Maine have right? dont’ we have a majority in both the house and the senate?
I’m sure I will be criticized for this post. It’s hard to direct some thought inward when you are working so hard to fight off the idiots from teh other side. but we could have had real change by now if they really wanted it. We just don’t want to believe it. We want to bury our heads and point out how horribe the other side is. We want to ignore the back room dealings O made with the Drug companies. No outrage, just some lame excuse as to why it had to happen and how we have to keep our eye on the bigger goal. RIghhtttttttt? The way I see it is as a distraction to allow more malfeasance.
Can anyone even process the fact that Sallie Mae, located right down I95 is in the business of taking gauranteed loans and selling them to students at an inflated price. A G.AU.RAN.TEED. GOVERNMENT LOAN THAT CAN NOT GO BAD. And here we are in congress fighting them no longer selling those loans. Easy MONEY. USERY ANYONE? But we aren’t upset. What a fucking scam. Couldn’t that be ended? YES. Will it? NO.
Can anyone process the fact that 1 year agp this globe almost fell into the abyss because the banks weren’t regulated. Guess what has happened since then. Anyone? NOTHING. That’s right. N.O.T.H.I.N.G. Oh…wahhhh, Obama has a lot to do. Right, I call bullshit. Anyone see the profit Chase had earlier this week? The bonuses being paid out?
Sure make excuses. But we have a majority in both house and a Dem president. I don’t want to hear anymore of this bullshit that the Dems are great b/c they aren’t the R’s. Ohhhhhhh, they have a diverse ideology and that is what makes them great. Carper, diverse? he’s a fucking sellout to the banks and the Zeneca…let alone DuPont. Conservative Democrats? Blue Dogs? Fiscally minded dems?
We are still at war and increasing troops to a place that has no Al Qaeda. Sound familiar?
We aren’t out of Iraq and shocking no one is paying attention to the oil field contracts anymore.
No regulation of the banks that got us into this mess
Wheels spinning on health care
No reverse of DADT
Oh and guess what, the CIA destroyed a few hundred hours of torture tapes, but we don’t want to look back
I almost forgot Charlie Rangel. I missed the posts on here criticizing that Dem. Although I’m told we do criticize our own over here.
I’m a Delaware Liberal, Not a democrat. I’m an independent that doesn’t have rose colored glasses on. I don’t see any of the major changes I voted happening. I don’t see accountability. I don’t see regulation. I still see major corporations getting away with raping our country. I don’t see the taxes raised. I still see Guantanomo opened. I even just learned that surprisingly ATT and Verizon were helping Bush spy on it’s citizens. Silence though. I see no one being prosecuted for their crimes, but I elected a constitutionally astute Senator that wrote two of his own books. I see a media that is so not liberal or conservative but profit minded I am getting angreir and angrier at my side not being able to see through this fog of bullshit.
It takes time is all I here. But it doesn’t. It takes will and a person that gives a shit about the people that got them elected. I’m proud as hell that I am alive to see the first Black President. I’m glad that it isn’t McCain and Palin. I can’t even imagine the clusterfuck our country would be in. But, would we have been closer to really throwing out the bums out if those two idiots were in office? My guess is the politicians know they dodged a bullet. A 21% approval rating for the congress. HELLO, that includes DEMS. THEY SUCK. But let’s give them a pass.
We are just kicking the can down the road in every direction because that is the way the corporations want it. The politicians are letting it happen because they need tens of millions to get re elected. Obama is letting it happen because he wants bipartisan support. OMG! OF course, we need to get them R’s on board. We want THAT ideology helping us get the country on track. We NEED them. I can’t think of any reason why we wouldn’t need a Republican helping craft a Bipartisan bill. Can you? The multi billion dollar media industry that needs to make money is allowing it all to happen. We are letting happen because we are so busy fighting the opposition, not realizing the opposition is within the Democratic party itself. Everyone was so smart and keen when it came to Bush’s rhetoric. Man, could we pick apart Talking Points from the opposition.
So sure, attack my questions when I say ask what has someone done. Keep ignoring the obvious and enjoying the fart jokes. Me, I’m reading Othello and ignoring the drunk guy.
So, you were being critical yesterday in asking your questions. That’s fine. There is plenty to criticize when you expect everything to be done overnight at the snap of a finger.
Did I call it or what?
You are more than an independent liberal, you are a purist, I think. For example, I am just as upset at the inaction on DADT as you, but am willing to wait it out while other things are accomplished, like healthcare reform, financial markets regulation and the rescue of the economy. But even if it does not get overturned by 2012, I will still look at the Obama Administration on balance rather than on that single issue.
Here is a challenge for you, Donviti. Tell me one Delaware and one national politician you approve of and why.
Poor Donviti. Talks a big game, then gets slapped around and says, “I’m a victim”.
Poor Donviti, wants change and when it doesn’t happen overnight cries about it.
Poor Donviti, does nothing to change things, but complain.
I think he taking lobbyist money from the BSU (Bad Spelers Union).
Victim, indeed.
That is not a helpful tone, Nemski, especially on that last point. I dare say you and I have done nothing to change things but voting, donating and being involved on this blog. Cassandra, Pandora and Unstable Isotope are better examples for all of us doing more to change things. They get involved in their school boards, the Progressive Dems, the state party and their neighborhood organizations.
Donviti’s problem is not that he talks a big game or has his personality. His problem, for a lack of a better word, is that he is a purist. I have written often on Daily Kos about the divide between purists and pragmatists in both parties.
He wants his change and he wants it now, don’t we all? Pragmatism long ago replaced any idealism I once had. I prefer the possible and know I’ll be lucky to get any of it let alone all of it right now. I prefer to live another day and fight when I can, if I can.
Actually, I’m amazed Donviti reamins idealistic at his age which is similar to mine, and hey, at least you went to WoodStock.
A purist? Self-centered is more like it. There are topics here that you are complaining that not enough of us are complaining about that have been addressed here. I fail to see how you can be mad about not knowing that others are doing on your own damn blog. And while there is plenty to complain about, I would like to lodge my complaint that you, Donviti, have not been complaining enough to make up for the dire lack of complaints from the rest of us. It isn’t as though you couldn’t have taken up all of these complaints yourself and written them up if you felt so strongly about them. Some of us only have a little time each day to devote to this, but there is no rule that you have to, you know, wait for someone else to write about a topic you want to air it out on.
Good grief.
DD, I probably went over-board on the last point, but I’ll say this:
Instead of saying that Obama has done nothing about Afghanistan or Iraq, why not do some research and find out what he’s done and what he hasn’t done. To complain with out facts is just boring.
DV just wants someone that can actually… ya know… write to do it.
I’m with DV on some of these. Most of you here are ” willing to wait it out ” on some of these issues. And that’s fine. But tell me why it’s even remotely necessary on DADT.
And as a vet, I’m as pissed as DV on the inaction on bringing the troops home.
I’m even more pissed about the continual erosion of our Civil Liberties in the name of “Homeland Security”
Now, the pragmatist in me 🙂 would say that Dominique over at DWA called it right when she cautioned (well actually screamed 🙂 ) that Obama would be much more of a centrist than people believed at the time. Looks like Dom was right..
are you kidding me? DV you are absolutely fucking right.
the democrats are SPINELESS! they gutted the health care bill, we ARE NOT going to see a public option. Obama CAN end DADT.
they have chosen not to go after war criminals in the previous administration, there are huge bonuses being paid to bank robber barons… guess what, it isn’t bush’s fault anymore. If they Wall Street ass holes keep taking our money and fucking us up the ass, it is the Dems, and yes, Obama’s fault.
I agree that change takes time, but we arent even moving in the right fucking direction.
Better fuel standards by 2016? WHY NOT RIGHT THE FUCK NOW?!?! Force the car companies to use the bail out money to retool and hire people to do it. fuck their bonuses, fuck their jobs, fuck their families, fuck their yatchs, fuck. them!
DV, you have been through an awful lot of bullshit in the past year, at least as far as i can tell from your posts and i hope you weather the storm bro.
as far as anyone here who wont hold Obama accountable for everything he promised, who wont go after him if he strays from a campaign promise, you are no better then a Rush Limbaugh ditto head. I voted for the ideas, not the man. If the man doesn’t implement the ideas he got my vote with, i’ll be looking for another set to support.
Mark H, regarding the troops, I’ll use this analogy. When you jacknife a truck filled with Delaware’s finest chickens on Route 13, you don’t just walk away. You clean the mess up first.
And if the mess takes 100 years and 500 trillion dollars to fix? In your analogous case, I’d just route traffic to RT 1 🙂
There were plenty of people here who thought that Obama was going to be fairly centrist too. But I guess it was too much to ask that people would pay attention to what each of us said rather than attributed the typical viewpoint to all of us.
DADT has been discussed here plenty.
Iraq we were not happy about moving the timeline, but the explanation was plausible so they come home after the next election.
Sometimes “wait it out” is a question of living with the fact that Obams is a centrist and is one man. So we are back to the first point I made here.
What kind of lives do you people lead where you get all of your expectations met immediately, anyway?
The nice thing about being a contributor on a blog is you can write about what you’re interested in. Just because we don’t write about these things doesn’t mean we’re not interested in them.
I certainly wish I could wave a magic wand and fix all these problems, but I’m a realist. I know we have a system. It’s an imperfect system but it is a system.
I don’t think being the most pure liberal means much if you’re not fighting. I’ve said many times that I just can’t believe all the whining and complaining coming from our side. Yes, things are shitty, but it takes time to fix them. And you can’t do everything at once. I was extremely critical of the delay in the DADT repeal but watching the hcr debate right now makes me see how difficult it is to do these things. The status quo is very powerful.
So, what are we going to do about it? Sitting on the sidelines and complaining does not get much done. You have to keep working and working and working. And you have to accept defeat sometimes. But you can’t give up.
I’m sympathetic to you, DV, I really am. I think you’re a great writer and you do keep us honest but just we don’t all do things your way doesn’t make us wrong. Perhaps we just disagree.
We can argue that certain politicians are out-of-touch. All I can say is that this is something I do for free because I care. I don’t get paid by any political party or big donor. So, what I say is really what I think.
Cassandra, I read this blog daily, so I’m well aware of what everyone says in most of the posts.
I lead a good life :), and in the case of DADT, I just don’t think there is a valid reason for Obama NOT to get rid of it..NOW, NOT TOMORROW (But I may be challening the 5 year old, who knows). 30% of the electorate is never going to vote to re-elect Obama anyhow, so I’m not sure what political capital he’d be losing by getting rid of DADT. And was no valid reason for the Patriot Act in the first place, so I don’t know why it wasn’t thrown out as soon as he took office.
hahahahahahaha. that was classic. “…angreir and angrier at my side not being able to see through this fog of bullshit.”
don’t you see this is the underlying issue – picking sides. That is why things will never get better, becuase there are always sneeches and star bellied sneeches and after a while neither knows who the other is.
I live in a country that still discriminates against whole groups of people…. a country who’s military is over extended and still refuses to let hundreds of thousands of patriotic citizens fight.
I live a life where un elected CEOs have more power over my wallet and health than do elected officials…. in some cases more power than I do, since they can decide if i get care or not (they have decided no.. Im not worth keeping healthy)
i live in a place where campaign finance dollars trump voter needs every time on both sides and fanatics are pandered to.
Where there are still billions of stimulus dollars left to be spent and we STILL don’t have plans for wind farms, or solar fields… wasn’t Biden supposed to be keeping an eye on that shit?
I dont only Blame Obama… Harry Reid is amazingly void of balls. he is a weak leader… he cant accomplish an agenda with a majority.
The Dems are in total control. If we dont get what we want, it will be their fault
Also as far as “we want it now”, remember 2010 is just a few months away. you KNOW these sorry excuses for “civil servants” wont do ANYTHING to hurt their re-election chances… it is all they care about. Its sad to see our greatest hope for improving this country slip away while people get complacent.
So, you were being critical yesterday in asking your questions. That’s fine. There is plenty to criticize when you expect everything to be done overnight at the snap of a finger.
No, I wasn’t. I told you all that yesterday. I told you guys that behind the scenes too. I have no reason to lie. It was an honest question meant to provoke some discussion.
The fight is NOT over. wasnt that Obama’s message? “the fierce urgency of now?” i guess we are experiencing the fierce urgency of next term
Perhaps there is not a valid reason in your view. But the reasons and rationales given by Obama were discussed here. As well as this writer’s attitude towards all of it. Discussed here. The reason is not about political capital — it is about a long term solution. Also discussed here.
And the Patriot Act being gone? That takes an act of Congress and he does not control them obviously — certainly not the kind of control that BushCo had. really people — this government does not have a king, not matter what the BushCo years led you to believe.
Really, you read what you wanted — that people were interested in “waiting it out” rather than
Cass,
you called nothing. talk about self centered eh…
Sure I did. And it is even in the very same blog you don’t even read.
Adding — your response here is symptomatic of the larger issue. I’ve responded to you fairly substantively in two places today and this is all you can respond to? Ironic, yes?
Comment by nemski on 16 October 2009 at 1:58 pm:
Poor Donviti. Talks a big game, then gets slapped around and says, “I’m a victim”.
Poor Donviti, wants change and when it doesn’t happen overnight cries about it.
Poor Donviti, does nothing to change things, but complain.
Wow. where to begin. the victim thing is a joke. The being attacked is an observation. As, I’m being attacked by you, Cass and LG right now. It feels good to here it from you. I’m sure you guys are right though. Just like the guys defending Bush were right too. they had their ideology, you have yours. Yours is right, theirs is wrong.
Gee, where have I heard that song before?
yes, I want change overnight, that is possible to get overnight. And there is a lot of change to get overnight. Troop increases in Afghanistan? Why not call it the surge while we are at it? See any parallels? Attack me all you want, but the story is the same only the party in power has changed. But that party is your party, so now it is ok. they know what they are doing.
I have done things to change things. So now you are attacking me as a keyboard commando huh? wow, right from our own blog. That’s what you have stooped too?
Wait, didn’t the Obama administration say something like that about bloggers too?
Your comments mean nothing. They only reinforce what I already know.
Go on with your bad self, DV!
With that said, the Right’s krazies are exponentially crazier.
They only reinforce what I already know
That you’re in love with the sound of the world’s smallest violin. Which, apparently, is your ideology. Rather than engage specifically on what people have said here it is easier to resort to Woe Is Me — these partisans that are supposed to be my TEAM won’t agree with me that they simply refuse to complain about enough stuff!
I really want to hear why it is that you couldn’t write all of these posts complaining about all of the stuff that the rest of us don’t complain about.
There’s a lot of attacking going on. And there’s a difference between working towards a goal and blind acceptance. Is this really the battle you’ve chosen? If so, why?
Your comments mean nothing.
Way to be a team player.
The dear leader has done many great things:
No More Earmarks (err maybe next year)
No Lobbiests in the Obama Administration (except for the really cool ones who gave us lots of money)
No More Secret Meetings in the White House (except our good secret meetings)
The WH visitors log is posted in the internet (err maybe next year after we spend another 15 million updating the website)
All bills are now posted on the internet 5 days before they are signed (err maybe next year after we spend another 15 million updating the website)
see Donvictimiti, there is no reason to criticise the Dear Leader.
Adding — your response here is symptomatic of the larger issue. I’ve responded to you fairly substantively in two places today and this is all you can respond to? Ironic, yes?
as your attacks on me are as well. The larger issue of picking a side and being ok with the slow change that comes from it. Or the what looks like change.
You are fine with making excuses for the slow minute change as long as it comes from your party. When it isn’t your party you can whip out all the charts and graphs you want. When you want to attack the opposition…out with the charts.
I can do anything I want with numbers too. change could happen if people wanted it. We have majorities…super majorities practically.
But fine see it your way, at least the other party isn’t in power right?
wait? isn’t that what the other side says.
War is peace when it is your party in power I guess.
Oooh, another outbreak of DL infighting.
*sits back with a bucket of popcorn and watches*
Who’s going to leave in a hissy fit this time?
Who’s going to get deleted and then return?
I have not attacked you.
And nor have you responded to either of my prior critiques, either. Just continuing to complain that I am not complaining enough does not cut it. Especially since it is pretty clear that you have read little of what I have written pretty much over the past year. This is wingnut bullshit right here — DV. Run right by the questions being asked to provide answers that not only reveal just how much you have not engaged with what is here but do so in a way that gets as much of your victimhood on as possible.
So why haven’t you been doing all of this furious posting on all of the subjects we are not complaining enough about? Because at the end of the day — this blog is a joint effort and it isn’t as though you couldn’t fix all of the deficiencies yourself.
right…just revelled in thinking you “called it” whatever. I don’t worry about it. I called it.
thread over!
sound familiar
So why haven’t you been doing all of this furious posting on all of the subjects we are not complaining enough about? Because at the end of the day — this blog is a joint effort and it isn’t as though you couldn’t fix all of the deficiencies yourself.
b/c at the end of the day..look what happens when I do a little of what i just did.
they eat their own rings so true.
All this crap seems familiar.
Have a great day and be safe on the highways.
Mike Protack
Indeed it does.
So if you don’t think that you can post up the complaints that you do not think we are doing — then what are you doing here? Just getting your whine on?
they eat their own rings so true.
You are so full of shit. You just set up this post saying you were not part of any group. So how is it that any group you don’t belong to could possibly do you harm?
As long as you have the keys to posting you are not being victimized here. And you are now in the realm of just performing for your ohsonecessary audience. If you were truly being victimized, the one thing that you know about this group of people is that none of us is going to be bullied into giving you a free pass. If you think you are being victimized, you do know that the easy way to STOP being victimized is by handing over the keys to the place, yes?
This is like the balloon boy, and i think this is a hoax also.
Indeed it does.
So if you don’t think that you can post up the complaints that you do not think we are doing — then what are you doing here? Just getting your whine on?
they eat their own rings so true.
You are so full of shit. You just set up this post saying you were not part of any group. So how is it that any group you don’t belong to could possibly do you harm?
As long as you have the keys to posting you are not being victimized here. And you are now in the realm of just performing for your ohsonecessary audience. If you were truly being victimized, the one thing that you know about this group of people is that none of us is going to be bullied into giving you a free pass. If you think you are being victimized, you do know that the easy way to STOP being victimized is by handing over the keys to the place, yes?
tak about self rightousness. feel better now?
I’m never going to beat you on the self-righteous front, man.
But speaking of self-righteousness, will you be answering any of those questions, or discussing any of those items or are you thinking that your audience here is still buying the victimization shtick?
If I’m reading this correctly, here is a partial list of what Obama was supposed to have done — single handedly and without the help of the chickenshit Congress we have — since mid-January, 2009:
end an 8 year old war;
end a 6 year old war;
repeal DADT;
repeat the Patriot Act;
fix the banks;
fix unemployment;
fix the White House web site;
unfix the election in Afghanistan;
fix the home mortgage crisis;
fix the student loan crisis;
punish Charlie Rangel;
meddle in private enterprise by stopping bank/insurance and Wall Street bonuses;
change the car fuel standards by, I dunno, next week?;
prosecute a whole bunch of people who may or may not have broken laws in the Bush Administration;
and get us universal health care.
Geez — if this is the task list (and my guess is it’s only the beginning), no wonder conservatives use phrases for Obama like “the messiah” and “dear leader.” Obama would need to be both god-like and totalitarian to have completed this to-do list.
But DV, I’m uncertain if your criticism is that Obama hasn’t gotten these things done by now; or if it’s that you doesn’t like how your criticisms of what you feel is his inaction on your list are received on this blog.
If it’s the latter, well, I’m pretty sure that’s life on a blog. You’re going to get stinkbombs thrown at you as often as roses.
But if it’s the former, well, some of us voted for Obama recognizing that he is merely a human being, working at the pace government usually does, against the pressures of reality, and against the crap thrown by both the right and the left … and blogs like this one.
Thank you, PM, for your post. I’m giving you the M.V.P. (most valuable poster) award for the week.
I just want to add – I am not a tool! I’m not even useful. 😈
“meddle in private enterprise by stopping bank/insurance and Wall Street bonuses;”
Ms Mom
one more statement like that and you will be stripped of your first name!
I’m registered Independent and have been since I served my country under Clinton.
I guess that explains why you didn’t get the nod to run for your RD seat when it was vacated by Diana McWilliams. Belonging to no party will not endear you to the RD committee.
keep em coming geek. keep em coming. if only your coding was as good as your wit.
I was giving Obama a bit of a pass until I read this today:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/10/16/goldman/
Outside of his SCOTUS pick and his work that gave him the Nobel nod, he has been frightfully DINO (banking, big health insurance, big pharma, Afghan war).
Markell has yet to prove that he is fairly straddling his corp-public divide as well.
But DV, I’m uncertain if your criticism is that Obama hasn’t gotten these things done by now; or if it’s that you doesn’t like how your criticisms of what you feel is his inaction on your list are received on this blog.
Some of these things could easily have been done PM. DADT easily, not adding troops, easily. Regulation? Oh,that could have been done while you know, we were on the “brink”
then you know there are a few things in teh middle that I have been patient on and will continue to be.
But when it comes to torture and not looking back. When it comes to Illegal detention and indefinite detention that is pretty shitty to me as a liberal.
But, that is ok, he get’s a pass from a lot of people. Call me crazy but when you give the peace prize for someone that can throw anyone in jail for however long he sees fit, for whatever reason he wants to make up…there are some problems.
also geek, I’m sure I didn’t get the nod b/c I didn’t show up to a meeting and never actually persued it. that raising $40k would be one reason I didn’t even get a look either.
No wit there. I didn’t realize that you were registered as an independent. I used to be one as well, but switched 6 or so years ago.
As for coding, I will leave the fact that there are posts and comments here as proof of my mad skillz. 🙂
Although a really skillful coder would be able to fix spelling errors on the fly, so I take your point.
I am certain that even if you had 10K and showed up at the meeting, as an independent, you had no shot. I’m surprised, in retrospect, that you even entertained the thought.
UI — thank you. I shudda done some grammar checking, too, though.
Rico — First, there are limits to Executive Branch power in this country, in spite of what most Republicans came to believe during the last administration.
Second, some of the most successful progressive Americans of the last century were its capitalists: Milton Hershey, Teddy Roosevelt, and Nelson Rockefeller, to name a few, right up to Bill Gates, the Wegman family, and (yes, even:) Ted Turner.
None was perfect in either venue, but each found a middle ground to serve both man and profit.
Capitalism and progressivism are only incompatible in the minds of some conservatives, who like to simplify both; and in the minds of a very few liberals, who need to find dragons to slay. I think you’ll find that most progressives recognize that capitalism, when firmly controlled to prevent the worst excesses of man, is a good economic system.
And I say all this at the risk of being called, by rabid “I hate all things Democrat” posters, as obnoxiously articulate.
(At least I’ve got the obnoxious part down….)
You have to be a registered Democrat to attend the Democratic meetings.
Donvictimi is whining like a libertarian.
He has the reading comprehension of one too.
“Call me crazy but when you give the peace prize for someone that can throw anyone in jail for however long he sees fit, for whatever reason he wants to make up…there are some problems.’
DV, I can’t argue this point, except to say that he didn’t apply for the prize, didn’t lobby for it and didn’t award it to himself.
Your problem on this one doesn’t fall on Obama.
I also don’t disagree with you that I’d like things to happen faster.
I’m just pretty damned sure they won’t happen at all if we elect Republicans.
So keep some pressure on the administration, and on Dems in Congress. Fine. You don’t “buy into either side”. Fine. Eventually, though, if you want a say in policy and progress, you need to work with somebody.
Right now, of your choices, who will that be?
(Rhetorical question, DV, for rhetorical purposes only. Your mileage may vary.)
Second, some of the most successful progressive Americans of the last century were its capitalists: Milton Hershey, Teddy Roosevelt, and Nelson Rockefeller, to name a few, right up to Bill Gates, the Wegman family, and (yes, even:) Ted Turner.
Well, this is irony, on this thread even. Hershey, I believe, was a Republican, we know Roosevelt in his hey-day was, and Rockefeller. Gates…no idea, really. Tends to contribute to the populist. Wegmens? Don’t know. Turner…I thought he was a Democrat, but something is telling me not so sure. Anyway, just enjoyed that the list representd more than one party, but more importantly, the common joiner is that their ideology can’t be framed within one party. Donviti gets the boot over all this, yet here, in the almost final comment, his point about Liberal v Democratic Party is pretty much clarified. Who’dda thunk it?
I doubt either Teddy Roosevelt or Nelson Rockefeller would be comfortable in today’s Republican party. Ted Turner is a Democrat, as is Warren Buffet. I don’t know about Gates.
I doubt either Teddy Roosevelt or Nelson Rockefeller would be comfortable in today’s Republican party.
I agree, but point was that these ideologies aren’t defined by political parties, something DV was trying to say, but one of the points that was getting lost amongst the other tramplings underfoot.
DV did not get the boot over an “ideology that can’t be framed within one party”.
I’ll stipulate that is a useful narrative, but it would be quite wrong. And I’d imagine you would be one of the few people on this blog to know first hand why he may have actually gotten the boot.
adding — one of the things that these individuals had in common was the ability to conceive an idea and understand the work to get it done. Some of the best visionaries are people who could also map out a way to get that vision done.
I know that wasn’t the reason, Cass, nor did I intend to claim it was. My point was over one of the smaller things he brought up, explaining why he felt no allegiance to the Democratic Party, but more so to a Liberal ideology. Throughout this episode and past episodes, though, there has been gasping back at him for not being a Democratic supporter from contributor and commenter. So, with that, I just found it somewhat interesting that PM laid out a comment that loosely supports DV’s claim of being an Independent Liberal by way of listing Progressives of differing political persuasions.
On a different note, I realize that, in spite of all that was laid out on this blog, there is plenty more that neither I nor many others know about nor have seen. I’m not casting judgements on right or wrong, so please don’t take it as if I am.
Smitty,
As a member of the DL community you have every right to share your opinion on the changes made on the blog.
Post of the year. Thanks for this, DV. Sorry you’re gone. It’s a bad day for DL.
it’s the way they wanted it from the beginning. now they can go on being the voice of the democratic party in delaware and beyond.
Donviti for hire. I’m ready to sell out to a blog open minded enough to take criticism.
At least the truth is finally out. Donviti wasn’t criticizing Democrats. He was criticizing us. Interesting. Tell me, who here keeps a job with a company he constantly trashes?
Idiotic to the bitter end. It is patently absurd to say that DL has ever been ” the voice of the democratic party in delaware” but lazy half-assed observations are your strong suit.
Tell me, who here keeps a job with a company he constantly trashes
I wasn’t aware I was on the payroll here?
Idiotic to the bitter end. It is patently absurd to say that DL has ever been ” the voice of the democratic party in delaware” but lazy half-assed observations are your strong suit.
go run down main street naked please.
You can come back to your blog now. I’m sure it was killing you.
DV, for someone that didn’t want to be criticized, you sure are doing a lot of it now.
besides DD, who here doesn’t trash where they work once in a while?
I didn’t want to get criticized? I’m the one that got kicked off for criticizing no? I think it is the other way around Nemski.
Looks like this thread is over. And it turns out it wasn’t about Obama, it was about DV.
I thought this was a post about politics, not personalities, and my reply strictly referred to the notion suggested by Rico that progressives cannot be capitalists.
And the examples were given for Rico, a hard-driven, single-minded conservative who, from what I’ve seen on these boards, hates all things Democratic and believes that any Democrat is a facist. So I gave him (mostly) Republicans/Independents who were capitalists and progressives.
Any effort to link my comments to one side or the other in the “is DV good enough/nice enough/liked enough” to blog here are about as solid as linking weapons of mass destruction to the war in Iraq.
/disclaimer over.
Hey Smitty — this may be too late for you to see, but I apologize taking your comment wrong. It looked like more of the martyr narrative and that would be exactly the wrong way to see this episode. The problem with being a group blog is that lots of folks treat each of us as though we all have the same ideas and opinions. I think that if you are a close reader of this blog, you know that is not true. There are a good number of us who would be Democrats of convenience, but liberal always. And even then, with some ideas on policy and governing that do not fit the mold. For instance, there are some of us who are absolutely behind a Beau Biden run and there are some who are looking for him to show us something, or even waiting to see how the field pans out. But what we get charged with is being a Democratic blog — with all of our ideas in lockstep. Even our most industrious (but largely wrong) critics don’t spend the time or effort to know that this is a group blog of multiple voices and ideas — NOT a group blog representing one narrow set of interests. Much of the reason behind ignoring those critics is because they don’t get what happens here in the first place, but there are voices that are meaningful and yours is one of them. But painting us all with the same broad brush when you’ve spent no time figuring out where we are all coming from gets some pushback or gets ignored.
ps. PM — excellent observation and thanks for expanding on your previous comment.
“Tell me, who here keeps a job with a company he constantly trashes?”
State workers.