Moving Past the Ignorance
As you know, a number of Republicans or conservative bullies have called in death threats to numerous Democratic Representatives and Senators. Some have been arrested. Including a little punk by the name of Gregory Lee Giusti, a 48 year old resident of, get this, a public housing complex in San Francisco. He was so angered by the socialist actions of the socialist Speaker of the House that he was compelled to call up Nancy Pelosi and threaten her life, all the while living in socialist public housing and most likely the beneficiary of other socialist government support.
And guess what happened when he showed up in court for his arraignment today.
Like all bullies called out for their bullying, he cried.
A man accused of threatening House Speaker Nancy Pelosi in phone calls cried Thursday during a court appearance where a magistrate initially refused his request to be released to a halfway house. Gregory Lee Giusti, 48, of San Francisco looked disheveled in a gray T-shirt and khakis as he appeared for the first time before Magistrate Judge Bernard Zimmerman.
“Some of these threats are very serious,” Zimmerman said before denying Giusti’s request to be released to the halfway house. He said Giusti may suffer from bipolar disorder and should be receiving treatment. The magistrate, however, told the U.S. attorney’s office to interview Giusti further to determine if he was mentally competent enough to be released to a halfway house or if he should continue to be detained. A detention hearing was scheduled for Monday. […]
Federal officials have said Giusti made dozens of calls to Pelosi’s homes and to her husband’s business office. The officials said Giusti recited Pelosi’s home address and said if she wanted to see it again, she should not support the health care overhaul bill that since has been enacted.
Giusti has had legal troubles in the past because of threatening behavior. In 2004 he was sentenced to a year in jail for a felony violation of threatening to kill a conductor on a commuter train, authorities said. Last year, Hamilton Square Baptist Church in San Francisco sued Giusti, asking a court to order him to cease a campaign of harassment against people associated with the church, court documents show. During Thursday’s hearing, Assistant U.S. Attorney Cynthia Frey said Giusti had other convictions for theft and telephone harassment.
You know, I do feel some compassion for Mr. Giusti, for it is entirely possible that the man is bipolar and down on his luck. What can I say, it is the liberal (i.e. human being) in me. Perhaps he acted in violence on this occasion and in the past because he is not receiving his medication for his bipolar disorder, something ironicaly the new health care law would help him acquire. Given that he has been living in public housing for nine years, it is quite possible he is a man of limited means or income, one of the downtrodden that we liberals and Democrats have strived for decades if not centuries to provide a social safety net for, in pursuit of the notion that society is judged by how we treat the least among us.
But through ignorance and incitement, in this case, the least among us has treated the society that provides for him with contempt, violence, and disdain. Which negates my compassion. And it is also quite possible that this man is just a violent criminal, and I would be a fool to feel any feelings of compassion for him in the first place.
For years now, we Democrats have wondered aloud, after we lost the elections of 2000, 2002, and 2004, about how people can vote against their own interests. Ta-Nehisi Coates, a senior editor of the Atlantic, wrote a short post recently that I think captures part of the problem:
The GOP is, effectively, the party of willfully unlettered Utopians. It is the party of choice for those who believe global warming is a hoax, that humans roamed the earth with dinosaurs, and that homosexuals should work harder at not being gay.
That the party of unadulterated quackery also believes that Birth Of A Nation is more true to the Civil War than Battle Cry Of Freedom, is to be expected. Ignorance does not respect boundaries. It is, at times, qualified and those who know more, often struggle to say more. But people who believe that the Census is actually a covert attempt to put Americans in concentration camps, are also likely to believe that slavery was incidental to the Civil War.
This is who they are–the proud and ignorant. If you believe that if we still had segregation we wouldn’t “have had all these problems,” this is the movement for you. If you believe that your president is a Muslim sleeper agent, this is the movement for you. If you honor a flag raised explicitly to destroy this country then this is the movement for you. If you flirt with secession, even now, then this movement is for you. If you are a “Real American” with no demonstrable interest in “Real America” then, by God, this movement of alchemists and creationists, of anti-science and hair tonic, is for you.
The essence of Coates’ post is that the rank and file of the Republican base are ignorant, willfully or by product of circumstance (i.e. lack of education). The latter are no doubt products of our education system, which, in many areas, is woeful in teaching any more than the basics, which unfortunately does not include actual thinking. And so they grow up, do not go to college, and watch Fox News all day and night, and listen to conservative talk radio, where they are told what to think, and where, recently, they have been incited to anger and violence. It is why they vote against their interests. For they do not know any better, literally.
Those Republicans who are educated yet remain ignorant do so willfully, for they are so married to an ideology that they can listen to any lie, repeat any lie, and make up any lie, so long as it fits into their world view. The educated ignorant are the worse of the bunch, for they give support to those who are just ignorant by circumstance, and they all reinforce either other.
Which is Gregory Lee Giusti? I don’t know. And I really don’t care. For at this point, he will only learn the folly of his ways by being held accountable for his actions. And if we hold all who would threaten and commit violence as a way to achieve their political aims accountable, then maybe, just maybe, those who say they are the party of personal responsibility and accountability will learn personal responsibility and accountability.
We as a nation have always had ignorant (willfully or otherwise) among us. Indeed, college education in our country was a rarity, a privilege available to few, until after World War II. The ignorant have voiced anger and outrage before during times of social change. The ignorant have been incited before. There has been biased media before. Indeed, the norm in the 1800’s and early 1900’s was biased media and yellow journalism. There have been Glenn Becks before, in the form of Father McLaughlin during the 1930’s. There has been violence before. We as a nation got through it, and the ignorance was defeated, eventually. But it was only defeated because the agents of change keep plowing ahead.
And by plowing ahead, we did not stop to feel compassion for those that stand in our way. I feel pity for Mr. Giusti if his possible illness and circumstance led him to violence, or if he was incited to violence by Beck and Hannity and was too stupid or ignorant to know better. But I will not sacrifice reforming our society to appease the ignorant. I will not make exceptions for or concessions to the ignorant. The ignorant do still have the ability to learn, especially by example.
At this point I blame the media. They have done the GOP’s work of spreading lies and disinformation.
They are Cartman men, Cartmen.
Your post kinda reminded me of something. Back in the day, psychiatric patients tended to align w/ God or the Devil. One or the other, they would carry on, and carry out. I wonder now if these patients now align w/ Democrats or Republicans? Any psych. or sociology majors out there need a thesis topic?
Any way DD–we treated ’em all–the same way–and never really brought God or the Devil into it–because these people were ill, perhaps competent, but way obsessive w/ this topic and needed help projecting this disproportionate personality disorder to reality.
Either way. Glad they got to him. Glad he’s locked up, and getting help or handcuffs or whatever he needs. Glad this time he was a Republican (and I don’t even know that). Because next time, when it is an obsessive Democrat, Devil Doer, or Just another Jesus–I want that person treated the same way too–away from me and my loved ones, off the street, medication ready, and getting treatment for this illness that dogs them, yet gives a big black eye to religion and politics. This fringe behavior of society is troubling enough–the crossover into a political ideology should have us all concerned.
Maybe an example of not blaming, is the reality this sick situation demands. Because, someone will always be crazy in the name of Republicans, Democrats, Satan, or God. Let’s just help them get sane.
Not just the media in general, UI, but FAUX News and Beck/Palin/Hannity/Limbaugh. Ronald Reagan would turn his back on these fools.
Faux News is one of the worst offenders but the rest of the media fails to challenge Republicans on their lies and plays the he said/she said game.
So people who disagree with you are ignorant and vote Republican. Does that even need commentary?
Man made Climate change is a hoax. GOD did create the universe in what ever time frame that He choose. Family should be the focus of our celebration for a strong society not alternative lifestyles. That is common sense not ignorance my friend. It is your ignorance of these facts which will harm America. A wrong approach to climate change will harm our economy and liberty. A wrong approach to family policy will undermine the foundations of a strong culture. ‘A denial of GOD gets you on the wrong first principles which leads you down the wrong path again and again.
All I can say is LOL, thanks for proving the point.
BTW the blame for this guy would go on the left. You inflated stories of threats against lawmakers so people like this jump on the bandwagon. It has nothing to do with FoxNews. It has everything to do with the fake environment that you on the left portray. This man has some serious issues. I hope that we really try to get to the bottom of them before he really does hurt someone. So far he has just been a talker all of his life.
It goes back to my point that I have been hammering for years. We need a real public mental health strategy.
When what you believe are easily proven lies, then yes, you are ignorant.
When you believe that global warming is a hoax, then you are ignorant. When you believe that humans roamed the earth with dinosaurs, then you are ignorant. When you believe homosexuality can be cured, then you are ignorant. When you believe the Confederacy is something to be celebrated, then you are ignorant. When you believe slavery had its good points, then you are ignorant. When you believe healthcare reform is a government takeover, then you are ignorant. When you believe in FEMA reeducation camps, then you are ignorant. When you believe that the census is unconstitutional, then you are ignorant. When you believe in death panels, then you are ignorant. When you believe the President is a Muslim, then you are ignorant. When you believe he was not born in the United States, then you are ignorant. When you believe states have the right to secede from the union, then you are ignorant.
I could go on and on, David. It would be one thing if you and your party based your opposition to Obama on ideological differences. But you did not. You based them on lies. And that makes you ignorant.
When Republicans call a health care bill “Armageddon” and say it’s coming to take our freedom they end up stirring the anger of crazy, unhinged people who believe their B.S. Republicans are the ones talking about secession and armed rebellion. We’ve been telling you for a year that it’s going to cause trouble and it certainly is. Just look at all the anti-government violence that has happened.
Wrong, it is the liberal media telling the crazies that it is in vogue. No where in conservative media do you hear that. We have all ways had those people who threaten others. You all stir up this stuff against Rush, Beck, and Hannity and I see no wringing of the hands. I have been threatened in the past by left wing loons and I don’t whine that free speech needs to be curtailed.
I am happy to put with a couple loons in order to have a free society. We have police who can take care of the loons. We have only ourselves to guard our freedom from those like Pelosi, Reid, and Obama who would steal it away.
We call Rush, Hannity and Beck stupid because they are. They spread lies and disinformation.
Oh, it’s official, threats to lawmakers have tripled due to ignorant health care reform opponents:
There are many ex-homos Del Dem. You are the one ignorant to the facts. As for man made global warming, most of the public has moved on. The obvious nature of the fraudulent data and skewed measurements has closed that door. As for humans walking the earth with dinosaurs, I saw that in the Flintstones so I know it is true. 🙂 No, seriously there are incidents of fosilized foot prints and bones in the same strata. It is not an unreasonable hypothesis. You or I may not agree with it, but it is a far cry from being ignorant or unreasonable.
No one threatens you, except the reality -based community that you so steadfastly refuse to join. When you use belligerent language and imagery to demonize people — not their policies or programs or governing strategies — you buy into a mindset that these opponents of yours are not worth being treated as humans. You only reserve that for *people like you*.
And here you are, dishonestly trying to lay the you do it too card, when you know that is not true. And when one of us gets on violent language, they are routinely smacked down and even ostracized. You guys make heros out of your belligerents.
So peddle that bit of bullshit over on your own blog where they won’t know any better.
Oh boy. Thanks David for proving me right.
The reason last year was what? They are including non threats in the number. I guess hurt feelings should not be part of being a Congressman. They get paid 170k. They can deal with a couple of hurt feelings when they defy the people and work on destroying American health care, constitutional government, and future medical innovations in the name of their own power.
Like you struggling to show sympathy for a mentally ill guy with nothing, I struggle to show it for rich overlords who fly around the world on our dime like the Speaker. I favor law enforcement and reject all threats, but they have to get their feelings hurt once in a while. It is the nature of the business.
How many death threats does Glenn Beck get a week? Your side has a near monopoly on incivility. Cars vandalized for sporting marriage is one man plus one woman bumper stickers. Threats against people called to their jobs for supporting the CA marriage intiative. The threats against pro-family people here in Delaware are a matter of public testimony. I am not the only one who received them or had my vehicle vandalized. I could name people, but you don’t care. For that matter, I really don’t. Standing for GOD and country is worth giving one’s life for, not just suffering a few inconviences.
When the public finally gets to the breaking point and your ignorant power grabs push this country to the verge of revolution, you guys whine like babies. The only thing keeping this country together is the conservative media and leaders who are focusing the energy to productive outlets. We understand what is happening. The left is remaking America. They think it is for good. We think it is for ill. We need to fight it out in the realm of ideas. The fact that few people on both sides will pick up a phone and blow off steam does not a crisis make. Deal with them. Don’t shut down freedom of speech. That would deserve a revolution.
Ex gays are a legally protected class. Your hate speech against them should be investigated.
Glenn Beck doesn’t get any death threats from people from the left. If he gets any at all, it is from whackos who are threating lots of other people. And if he was getting any — this would be news. Because Glenn Beck would never turn up one more chance at publicity. And there aren’t many threats against the right, either. Mostly it is the self-inflicted stuff — like carving a B on your face in order to get your 15 minutes of fame.
But you still won’t deal with the one salient bit of business here — people on the left do not idolize the belligerents and those calling for or actually doing violence. We do not give them a round of adoring interviews on the local wingnut venues calling out their bravery and courage. We ostracize these people and/or condemn their actions.
You do not.
When? You just spent time denying what is a known fact. As for the notion that these threats come from people prone to do so regardless, that is my point. Whether it is the people threatening Cantor or the ones threatening Pelosi, they are there regardless. For some it is blowing off steam, while for others it is their twisted hope for their 15 minutes of fame.
As for lionizing people who call for violence, no. It is not what we do. I can’t think of any leader or major voice that does even on a local level. You know my position as it has always been and remains clear. I have always rejected violence and continue to do so. It has no place in a free and civil society.
Republican David, I question whether to even bother responding to your posts, because I can’t imagine you would believe the truth about any issue that goes against your far right mind set, even if Jesus Christ himself came down and showed you the truth. Unlike doubting Thomas Christ wouldn’t be able to convince you of the truth.
Can a homosexual become straight? You say they can. I am not gay, and while I like to think I am very liberal on gay rights, and applauded the recent one-year anniversary of my home states legalization of gay marriage. Growing up who would have thought Iowa would be more liberal on any issue than NY or California. However, as much as I believe gays should have equal marriage rights, the idea of engaging in homosexual sex repulses me. People call that the “yuck factor”, I have no reason to doubt that a lesbian or gay man has the same felling deep to his or her core when they think about their participation in heterosexual sex. I firmly believe, almost without exception, people are born with a firm sexual identity; it is part of who we are. I never chose to be straight, I just am, and I doubt you ever chose to be straight either. Unless you sat down as a teen (tween, or young adult) to decide whether to be gay or straight, why would you think that a gay person made that choice either? Can gay people force themselves to be in a heterosexual relationship to confirm to societal norms? Of course, it has happened for centuries, and continues today. But believing that gays can change, and the only thing stopping them from doing so is themselves, is not only a viewpoint without any factually or scientific support, it is a view born out of a desire to make discrimination against gays acceptable. No doubt you wouldn’t say it is ok to discriminate against an entire race based upon the color of skin they were born with, because the person has no control over their race, but if you believe gays can stop being gay by just choosing to be straight, you give yourself license to hate and discriminate.
lol – yup, the death threats Beck gets comes from pissed-off conservatives who finally open their eyes and realize the that the whole time he only was playing the role of a confidence man with the sole purpose of taking his listeners money to pad his pockets. 32 MILLION a year, bitches!
And shit, here I am thinking that the weather was controlled by Zeus. Oh well.
Have you read the court doc yet? How is it that people you claim do not exist are filing and winning court cases? I personally know almost as many ex-gays as gays. Think Anne Heche. The woman was confused and had certain pshychological difficulties. She was so in love for almost three years that she was pushing VT for civil unions. Now she says she doesn’t know what she was thinking. It also goes the other way. I think this issue of human sexual orientation is a lot more dynamic and complicated than most people will admit. Obviously that includes people on this blog.
If a box of crayons made false equvalency arguments all day would you respond to it? Of course not. If a lump of peat moss parroted the words of Glenn Beck ad nauseum would you try to debate it? Why no. If David can’t think outside of his indoctrination should you reply? … Okay then.
It is more than *lionizing a call for violence* — it is about accepting the belligerent and violent as the cost of doing business. Because there is nothing human about your opponents anyway, so why acknowledge that?
It is rep. Steve King rationalizing away the terrorism of Joe Stack.
This is the kind of thing that is endemic in your Party. The violence is OK.
In other words Jason knows that they lost the argument. Legal documents, eye witness testimoney, and public incidents reported in the media are all to be ignored because he doesn’t want to believe something. That is typical of Jason, don’t debate the evidence, attack.
You guys brought up the idea that people who don’t agree with you in these areas are just ignorant. I have shown that there is plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise. I do not have to prove whether or not one side is right or wrong. Those debates will stretch on for decades. My point is that the other side is perfectly valid.
You are not alone in your denials. The reason for the court case was that people who share your point of view wanted to keep a public facility open for rent out of the hands of a group they deny can exist. The mere existance of the group was an offense to them. They ignored the fact that we have a first amendment to protect the groups not favored by the powerful. Ex-gays and lesbians experience far more hatred and discrimination than gays and lesbians in some segments of our society as shown by the debate here. Even those who support their rights are demeaned.
David has no more idea of how often someone has homosexual fantasies than you, I or anyone else. Someone can stop engaging in homosexual acts, or at least say they have. Gays married and had children for most of recorded history. Nobody can tell what is in their minds.
To interpret bisexuality as “ex-gay” is nothing but the usual conservative wishful thinking. The one thing David — most conservatives, actually — will never do is question his own assumptions.
Can we get an IQ test before letting people post in here?
That document you posted, Delusional David, does not show that ex-gays are a protected class. It says that the NEA was wrong for denying this group PFOX (an odious group) booth space at a convention.
So instead of berating Jason for not looking at evidence, you need to spend your time actually finding some. And finding some that actually bolsters your argument. Because the way the internet works, you can’t just post a link and claim victory. That link has to actually support our argument. If you actually have one.
So what you have just done here, David, is be our our personal lab rat demonstrating not just the ignorance of you and your fellow-travelers, bit also just how hard you will work to hang on to it.
You are not to wag your finger at anyone here about not paying attention to evidence until you know how to provide some and you show that you know how to evalutate it. Until then, go back to where people are accustomed to all of that ignorance.
Cassandra, There is nothing wrong with trying to understand what a person was thinking when they did something either good or evil. That is what thinking people do. Congressman King was not making some speech calling for people to emulate Stack. Stack was not even a conservative. He went around quoting Marx.
King was just answering a question requiring analyis of the act. He wouldn’t even call the guy’s grievances legitimate, let alone justify his action. King’s point is that they make a habit of breaking people due to the intrusive nature of audits. He believes that we should have a less oppressive tax system in the first place. Then we won’t be talking about these incidents. That is a far cry from your implications.
I think we can all understand the frustration of a government out of control. I have seen the IRS harm families who were just trying to do the right thing or just followed bad advice. That does not justify flying a plane into the IRS office nor acting with violence toward any human being. We all get the second part, I am beginning to wonder if you get the first part.
Why was the NEA wrong for denying them? It is because they filed for protected class status under sexual orientation laws.
King wasn’t looking to understand a damn thing. He was telling the interviewer how he could empathize with killing someone, with killing yourself, and destroying other people’s property. And blaming the IRS for this act of domestic terrorism is the worst sort of hypocrisy on both King’s and your part.
And especially you, with your showy religiosity. Thou shalt not kill does not have a caveat exempting the IRS.
It is because they filed for protected class status under sexual orientation laws.
Proof that you don’t read or even understand your own damn arguments.
I think they have every right to call themselves what they want and to meet, etc. But I don’t have to believe that, because these people claim they are no longer gay, that gayitude can be “cured.” That, as I said, is mere wishful thinking, and will lead to a lot more misery than happiness for many thousands of gays whose parents will continue to deny their gayness in hopes of a “cure.” It will be especially hard on those raised in repressive religious homes.
29 Arrested In Olympia Riot (more violence,from the left)
KIRO ^ | April 9, 2010 | KIRO
OLYMPIA, Wash. — Olympia police arrested 29 people after a officers say anti-police protest turned into a riot in the downtown streets after 7:30 p.m. Thursday night.Olympia Police Department tells KIRO 7 Eyewitness News that a group of about 35 people marched down 4th Avenue in Olympia in what participants called a “sweep the police protest.”Officers who monitored the march said the members were dressed in black and disguised themselves with face coverings.Protestors blocked all lanes of traffic on 4th Avenue as they moved through downtown.Police received reports of vandalism and graffiti in the area and received additional reports that…
Union Memo Hints At Gov.’s Death (NJ Teachers Union)
WCBSTV New York ^ | April 8, 2010
New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie isn’t laughing about a teachers union’s memo that hints of his death. The memo is the latest salvo in a war of words between Christie and the union over wage and benefits concessions. The Record of Bergen County obtained the Bergen County Education Association memo that includes a closing prayer: “Dear Lord this year you have taken away my favorite actor, Patrick Swayze, my favorite actress, Farrah Fawcett, my favorite singer, Michael Jackson, and my favorite salesman, Billy Mays. I just wanted to let you know that Chris Christie is my favorite governor.” Association president…
Ho ho ho. See, it isn’t funny no matter which side thinks it is.
Just as I would not blame a KKK march on “the right,” Schwartz, you shouldn’t blame “the left” for the actions of self-described anarchists. Here’s their call for the march that you, typically, offered without context:
—As anarchists, we do not need justifications for opposing the police. Their normal operations, their exercises of state power, keep the state and capitalism functioning smoothly. Their role is that of guardians of the state, which allows commodity relations and all other forms of hierarchy to continue their wretched conquest of the earth and its inhabitants. When a cop chooses not to kill you or give you a speeding ticket, he still maintains his position of power that allows him to commit either of these actions and everything in between with no repercussions.
And as anarchists, we recognize these facts. We need not wait around for a singular event that is especially horrifying in order to orchestrate our vicious response. The day to day activities of the police should be enough incentive for us to attack these jail guards. But a response is needed more than ever when the police kill marginalized members of our community.
On March 22, police in Portland, Oregon, shot and killed a homeless man, Jack Dale Collins, after killing Aaron Campbell, an unarmed black man, only two months prior. On New Year’s morning in Oakland, California, BART police shot and killed Oscar Grant while he lay on the subway ground, unarmed. And perhaps striking closest to home, Olympia police officer Paul Bakala shot and killed Jose Ramirez-Jimenez in November 15, 2008. Bakala also tasered 59 year old Stephen Edwards for allegedly shoplifting from a grocery store in November 2002. Edwards died in police handcuffs less than an hour after the incident.
Anarchists appropriately responded to all of these events, but it is important to keep the pressure up. So long as police exist and carry out these murders, we must be there to fight back. —
Taking these people as respresentative of “the left” is the well-worn, long discredited technique known as a “straw man.”
If you are comparing the Tea Party with a group of anarchists, just remember, YOU made that connection, not anybody responsible for this site.
I hate to disagree, but that “prayer” was funny. Morbid, but funny. I have no issue with it. I could imagine the outrage if Shawn Hannity prayed that and ended with and my favorite President is…. Even if the left has no balanced sense of humor, I do. I don’t think Chrisie should worry, he is a Republican and we know GOD is a republioan because GOP means GOD’s Own Party.
so your god’s a selfish prick?
ok, got it.