Friday Open Thread
Welcome to your Friday open thread. Everytime Friday rolls around I get that stupid Rebecca Black song in my head. I know, it’s my own fault, but still.
Knock me over with a feather – the National Review Online acknowledges an inconvenient truth for Republicans:
Among sentences I do not like to write: Andrew Leonard is mostly right about this one. Tax cuts do not generally increase revenue, and Republicans should stop saying otherwise.
…
Boehner’s statement, like Walsh’s, depends on how much implicit causality you read into it. That is not a trivial distinction: Low tax rates really can and do contribute to a growing economy, which can and does contribute to growing tax revenue. What is not true is that income-tax rate cuts pay $1.30 on the dollar, and that revenue has risen mostly because of (rather than despite) tax cuts — and Republicans should stop claiming otherwise.
So, now that the NRO is contradicting St. Reagan, will the Republicans follow? My guess is that Mr. Williamson will be ignored.
Texas Governor Rick Perry doesn’t want to be seen doing nothing while his state suffers. Perhaps that’s why he’s going to these desperate measures to relieve the drought:
Texas is in the grip of historic wildfires that have destroyed nearly 1.8 million acres of forest and grassland in the state as well as 400 homes. The almost 8,000 fires so far this year are unprecedented, which last weekend prompted Gov. Rick Perry to call upon the national government for assistance. Now Perry is calling upon the Man Upstairs for help.
Perry issued a proclamation on Thursday declaring the next 72 hours the “Days of Prayer for Rain in Texas,” asking residents to appeal to whatever higher power they prefer for help. It states:
WHEREAS, throughout our history, both as a state and as individuals, Texans have been strengthened, assured and lifted up through prayer; it seems right and fitting that the people of Texas should join together in prayer to humbly seek an end to this devastating drought and these dangerous wildfires;
NOW, THEREFORE, I, RICK PERRY, Governor of Texas, under the authority vested in me by the Constitution and Statutes of the State of Texas, do hereby proclaim the three-day period from Friday, April 22, 2011, to Sunday, April 24, 2011, as Days of Prayer for Rain in the State of Texas. I urge Texans of all faiths and traditions to offer prayers on that day for the healing of our land, the rebuilding of our communities and the restoration of our normal and robust way of life.
If it doesn’t rain does that mean God has abandoned Texas?
Tags: Open Thread
Can we ask the Feds to hold up on any help for Texas until we see if his Rain Dance works?
Remembering back to the morning bloggers meeting with Jack Markell a few months back, our Governor was faced with concerns (mostly from ElSom) that he wasn’t interested in pinching the fat of the land, so to speak.
Jack was convinced that the upper class had to be handled with kid gloves (do we even have upper tax brackets?) lest they leave the state. He even told us anecdotes about children of wealth who were being inordinantly punished by the Estate tax.
There’s a spate of data now to belie this position – Robert Frank / The Wealth Report: Millionaire Tax Didn’t Chase the Rich From New Jersey, Study Says
http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2011/04/20/millionaire-tax-didnt-chase-the-rich-from-new-jersey-study-says/
What say you now, Mr. Governor?
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… your tax dollars (and borrowed chinese money) at work…
The idiocy never stops.
Copy and pasting banner ads now, eh? Are you a member of Tax Masters too?
What’s next, blast emails?
Don’t mess with Texas. You’ll probably get neurological syphillis if you do.
John McCain is truly insane. On his trip to Libya to “talk” with the rebels…he is now onboard for more military action against Libya. Mr. Insane obviously didnt get the “we’re broke” memo! Money for war, oh yeah, trillions…money for jobs, social security, medicare, medicaid, we are flat broke! Does it occur to anyone that Mr. Insane wants 3 or more wars on the table when 2012 rolls around?
Is this why the repukes and the blue dogs are encouraging Obama to “invade another soverign nation”, without Congressional approval?
This neo con war mongering fool would have already invaded Iran if he had been elected, but when you look at the countries the PNAC listed as “wars over the next 5 years”, Obama is playing that same card? Obama was targeted with protests in California today by the immigrant youth. When will white folk realize there are now more minorities in this country than white or black folks and start dealing with real immigration reform. The party that embraces the immigrant mess will be the party re-elected. period.
For the second in my now-ongoing series “For the Ladies” I present:
http://bangabledudesinhistory.blogspot.com/
Hands off Robert Cornelius, he’s mine.
Remember Burt Lancaster in The Rainmaker? Burt played great con-man roles and this was terrific. As I read about Rick Perry I’m reminded of “Starbuck” who promises to end the drought for $100 from the townspeople.
I don’t know Auntie.The best con-man I’ve seen in that genre was Tyrone Power in NIGHTMARE ALLEY.He was GREAT.Tyrone delivers one line near the end of the movie that is absolutely perfect.
‘Comment by V on 22 April 2011 at 5:28 pm:
For the second in my now-ongoing series “For the Ladies” I present:
http://bangabledudesinhistory.blogspot.com/
Hands off Robert Cornelius, he’s mine.”
You’ll love A song for the ladies” by Jon LaJoie.
Great show about cons: Hustle. Each episode is like Snatch mixed with Ocean’s 11, con style.
skipper, I googled Nightmare Alley and I will look for it on OnDemand. Sounds like a real good one.
Oh and, I’m hearing wonderful reviews of the new play that is premiering at UD’s Rep theater. “Oh Beautiful” was commissioned for the UD company and includes a cast of 40 who examine America and our society. For more information go to:
http://www.udel.edu/theatre/2010Beautiful.html
It got a huge write-up in the NYT and it sounds like the sort of show we’d all enjoy.
I don’t think it’s OnDemand, Auntie. I wish it was.
Tyrone goes from “playing” the biggest and fanciest nightclubs in the BIG CITY to a GEEK in a low rent carnival side-show.
His rise and fall are compelling to watch.
I thought this was a horror movie when I just saw the title.
It turned out to be so much more horrifying for the human element,greed and loss in the story.
No doubt some Republicans are asking, “Now who will we get to work that police officer job for sub-minimum wages?” http://tinyurl.com/3sg9ngb
any updates on Obama’s war for oil in Libya?
‘O Beautiful’ got some hate mail today too. It was in the Newark Post email. A UD grad is disowning the alma mater over this play. *sigh*
Also, speaking of Texas, my sister’s oldest kid is an early education music teacher in the low-income area of Austin. She was sweating whether her job would be there for her this year and she just got word that she’s been offered another year’s contract. There are plenty of pink slips going out thanks to Perry, though.
Is it just me or does Cohen have it in for Chip Flowers? She writes an article about Chip hiring is own attorney with his own money and tells us that he has to get permission to hire his own attorney with his own money from the AG’s Office? Wow, Charlie Copeland must be paying her really well. No wonder the NewsJournal fired her, she cant control herself with her bias.
Just because you don’t like the news doesn’t mean it’s biased. Within six months of taking office, he tried to enlarge his own office’s purview and then went around normal processes when he got push back. Whether you personally like Chip or not, that is news. I voted for him, but I think his actions of the last week really reflect poorly on him.
Not sure that I agree. How does opening checking accounts in Delaware banks go beyond his office? This debate seems awful for Dems. On one hand, you have a Treasurer trying to work to put money back in Delaware; on the other, you have administration and the AG’s office saying the Treasurer cant put money in our banks. This is not just weird, its actually rather stupid (by the way, its a scary thought if a treasurer cant open a checking account – I think the head of my PTA has that authority). Personally, I think Carper should sit all of them down and try to resolve this for the best interest of the party.
An, by the way, you said in your message that he went around “normal processes” when he got push back. What do you mean? I know Chip and even talked to him about this, I read the AP article and talked to some friends. Everyone I talked with said what’s the big deal in putting Delaware money in Delaware banks. Cohen’s article seems to imply that Chip had to check with the AG about hiring a private attorney with his own money. I don’t think that is the law. Also, does it bother anyone that the AG’s office (the Chief Deputy) is commenting on a blog about the Treasury. I think this is personal (Markell & Biden vs. Flowers). I have a feeling that this script is going to play out for the next few years. I like Chip and I want to be upfront. This situation is out of control and I think the Administration, the AG’s office and the Treasury have not handled this well at all. This should have been an easy victory for Democrats, but instead, it turned into infighting about putting Delaware money in Delaware banks. Too stupid.
I don’t believe that this is simply him “trying to put money back in Delaware” or simply opening a checking account. That is the spin Chip is trying to put on it, but I think that is simply spin. So is Chip’s attempt to paint this as the old guard trying to protect their pet interests.
I would agree that this situation was handled poorly, but the genesis of that was Chip’s threat to move forward unilaterally after having his proposal denied.
In response to your question about Chip going around the normal process, I was referring to his retaining a private attorney (instead of the Attorney General’s office) without first getting approval from the governor and AG.
Thank you, An. After my conversation with Chip (which I dont want to put his direct statements on this blog), I found out that the AG assigned to his office was engaging in some unethical conduct – which resulted in the Treasury seeking a new deputy AG. Apparently, the AG rejected his office’s initial attempt for a new AG, then Chip hired a personal lawyer with his own money to protect the Treasury and his personal interest, since the AG refused his initial request (which seems to me well within his legal right). Apparently, there are a bunch of emails that back up his side of the story (though I don’t think those are going to be released without a FOIA request – though, I wish Chip would release them to clear his name and I tried to convince him to do that). That’s why I think this story is nonsense – Chip and the Treasury do not provide any comments to Cohen, but the AG’s office seems all to willing to allege that they are fixing Chip’s hiring of a private attorney. Again, I support Chip and this smells too fishy for my liking. Over a billion dollars of Delaware money at stake, the son of a U.S. Vice-President, a Governor up for re-election and a Treasurer that has no allegiance to either the Governor or AG and elected without the support of the Democratic party. I have a feeling this is going to get real nasty.
I hope Chip doesn’t get mad at me, but I’m tired of Cohen not putting the entire story on her blog. She has it out for Chip and those of us who support him are tired of her paid biased commentary.
Sorry, An. I missed your first response. I think by Chip refusing to act unilaterally proves that he is trying to compromise. Yes, I am a lawyer and after I read the Cash Management Policy, it is clear that the Treasurer has the authority to move the money. Chip consulted with the Cash Management Policy Board, but receiving consultation is different than requiring approval. It seems that the Board wasn’t trying to find a solution to get money in Delaware banks. Rather, they tried to frame it as the Treasurer expanding power – which is wrong, since the Treasurer has the power to put Delaware money in FDIC insured demand accounts (which is the exact wording of the policy). Personally, I think if this issue goes “viral”, Chip has the edge as I think it is going to be hard to convince Delawareans that their money should not be in Delaware banks. My guess, the money will get moved to Delaware banks and Markell, Biden and Chip all sustain political damage. That’s why this is too stupid to argue over. The Republicans have to be laughing at our party for arguing over putting money in Delaware banks. Again, too stupid.
for a guy with a no show job, he sure is getting a lot of ink.
Chip Flowers is committing political suicide. Some of us warned him months ago that his plans were not going to fly, at least not easily. The best way to marginalize yourself permanently is to walk around slagging the entire Democratic power structure. He might be right, there might be a conspiracy against him — I tend to doubt it, as Chip sees a conspiracy behind every tree — but it’s still career suicide to take the approach Chip has taken.
Thanks, Geezer. I’m not sure if it is political suicide is my point. At first, I thought like you, but after talking to him and getting more of the facts – I think he should stand his ground. What alot of people do not know is this started with Wilmington Trust and its downgrade by a ratings agency right after Chip was elected. According to our state’s Cash Management Policy, the Treasurer is supposed to move money from a bank that does not meet our standard. Delaware had over $300 million in Wilmington Trust (why would our esteem Cash Management Board want to keep state money in a failing bank). Apparently, when Chip went to move and protect the money, the administration and the Board tried to stop him, because they did not want Wilmington Trust to lose our money. There was a lot of contention and apparently, Chip came up with a plan to keep the money in the bank by amending the policy(ironically, the same provision that he his using for his plan), but he refused to draft a provision just for Wilmington Trust – it must be fair to all the banks. Apparently, the administration and the Board were not happy with him in that instance and the feelings were that Chip was not going to defy orders in the “backroom” to acccomodate them. So, when Chip went to get advice on his plan, a little payback was in order.
If this is true, I will never vote for Markell and I will support Chip to the end. To be frank, I advised him to go to the press, but it was Chip (not a group of informal advisors that he met with to discuss this situation) that said he has loyalty to the party and who wants to be the person that tells everyone that their leadership and Board is corrupt? Then I thought about, why the hell would any political figure oppose putting Delaware money in Delaware banks unless their was another issue.
Geezer, I know you can be tough on him, but if this is true, maybe he his trying to do the right thing and I believe in him.
To be clear with everyone on this blog, Chip has no clue that I’m trying to convey his side of the story on DL or any place else, but after reading Cohen’s hatchet job (a treasurer’s slush fund – how unfair was that). I feel like some foul play is going on with the AGs and possiby the administration using Cohen to bash him, because they know he is in a box by not being able to defend himself without destoying our party. If true, those are classless acts.
Wilmington Trust is a local bank. Moving the money could have been a deathblow.
Trust me, whether he’s right or not, it’s political suicide.
So, Geezer, political suicide or not, do you believe that Chip should have kept our money in a bank that was failing, despite a policy requiring the money to be moved? As I told him during our meeting, no one (and I mean no one) would have forgiven him if Wilmington Trust failed and he lost over $300 million of state money. Geezer – you would have been crying out for impeachment! That’s why I agree with him, our state money needs to be spread around different Delaware banks, not concentrated in just a couple of banks. To me, the Board is deflecting attention from its inaction in keeping our money in Wilmington Trust and trying to make Chip look bad to keep Delaware money in their favorite banks – even though that is crazy! I mean Wilmington Trust was going under before Chip entered office and they took no action to even try to protect state money! When I was told that, I was floored. Why did they wait till Chip took office and force him to deal with it so early in his term?
Whether you like him or not, there is not a dishonest bone in the guy’s body. I’ve known him for years and if tells you a story, I believe it. Imagine the decision in front of this guy (who is our youngest statewide elected official – that’s including the General Assembly), fight the administration, the Board and the Attorney General for what he (and most people with a financial background) believes is right or stay silent and do nothing while watching our state money be at risk. Try to give him a break, not even a group of 10 people could agreed upon one solution and we know the whole story. This is tough Geezer, etthics, integrity, financial management and politics are at play here. He’s been handed a lemon and he has to make lemonade. I thought he had it hard during the campaign, that was a walk in the park compared to this.
Sorry that my responses are so long, Geezer! LOL. I’m tired of people beating up on the guy without him being able to defend himself.
Nice! Some kick back against the bought blogger of Delaware but not a peep from a DL blogger?
Lets talk corruption. Check out the article on Tom Wagner. The Delaware Way has to be exposed in both parties. We all told you Chip Flowers was going in a direction “he made up”on the campaign trail. Flowers wasnt handed a lemon, he made the lemon.
Nice try, anon. Apparently, you were a Bonini or Velda supporter. Regardless of what you think of Chip, the facts show that the Wilmington Trust debacle occurred before he entered office and he is trying to fix the problem by spreading the money around in state banks. I think many people do (and will) support him when the full story becomes public.
Regarding Wagner, I do agree with you. The Delaware Way does have its downside and I think we are entering into an era where we are learning that Delaware Way may not always be the right and fair way.
I voted for Chip Flowers, but I become increasingly disturbed by how his supporters come off as followers of a cult leader.
I am not sure whether Flowers’ proposal would have succeeded in spurring the economy but it was a reasonable proposal with no risk attached to it so it should have went forward. It seems the board rejected it based on ideological grounds, i.e. opposition to the treasurer being involved in economic development. Those are pretty lame grounds for opposition. If there is no risk involved and the treasurer is fulfilling his statutory duties what is wrong with a secondary bonus of economic growth?
With respect to tax cuts and revenue growth, revenue grows when I post on blogs too! It’s like magic, isn’t it Republicans? I can’t believe practically an entire political party is so naive. Revenue almost always increases because the population and economy constantly grow. The population grew by 22 million from 1980-1990 and 27 million from 2000-2010. Regarding the 1980’s, how much longer are Republicans going to pretend Reagan did not go back and raise taxes practically every year after his initial round of massive tax reductions?
Dana, just because people support Chip doesn’t mean we have some cult following. We are critical of him as expected from advisors. The facts are the facts and while Chip may choose to stay silent to protect the behavior of high ranking Dems, we will not allow him to be vilified from clear lies and spin from a blogger paid to destroy him. Enough is enough.
“Nice try, anon. Apparently, you were a Bonini or Velda supporter.”
This is what Dana is talking about. Chip has a Nixonian habit of seeing conspiracies against him behind everything that doesn’t go his way. It’s a dreadful habit for a politician, and it’s apparently rubbing off on some of his fans.
You don’t have to have a dog in this fight to see that Chip is trying to enlarge the duties of his office, and that those whose turf is involved aren’t going to let it go without a fight. Attacking those who point this out is no way to convince doubters.
How exactly is opening checking accounts and moving state money into safe local banks enlarging the Treasurer’s office? Isn’t that what the Treasurer is supposed/permitted to do – seek a decent ROI on state’s money? If all this business about Wilmington Trust is true, I wouldn’t want my money there anyway!
Seems to me that the previous holders of the Treasurer’s position didn’t think of these types of initiatives (although allowed) and someone has entered into the office with ideas for initiatives (that are allowed). Unfortunately, people want to conduct business as usual and don’t want to change things for the better.
It’s all very silly to me, but it is politics as usual.
“How exactly is opening checking accounts and moving state money into safe local banks enlarging the Treasurer’s office?”
The money would be put into non-interest-bearing accounts. INstead of interest, the banks would pay a fee to the treasurer’s office. The treasurer’s office would then disburse those funds.
“Isn’t that what the Treasurer is supposed/permitted to do – seek a decent ROI on state’s money?”
Substituting a fee for interst is a dubious way of doing so.
“If all this business about Wilmington Trust is true, I wouldn’t want my money there anyway!”
All what business? For someone so willing to state how things “seem to me,” you sound startlingly ill-informed about the issues.
“Seems to me that the previous holders of the Treasurer’s position didn’t think of these types of initiatives (although allowed) and someone has entered into the office with ideas for initiatives (that are allowed).”
It’s pretty clear you don’t know anything about this other than what Chip has told you. Previous treasurers didn’t think of these types of initiatives because they were team players, and Chip isn’t.
“Unfortunately, people want to conduct business as usual and don’t want to change things for the better.”
There is no evidence that this change would be for the better. Chip has explained almost nothing about how this would work. If you’re going to hold yourself out as a victim, it helps to be touting a program that would be a clear improvement over the status quo.
“It’s all very silly to me, but it is politics as usual.”
So is sock puppetry.
Thanks for breaking down my post line by line Geezer. Typical response from you. And because I don’t agree with you or your assessment I am a sock puppet. I have my own mind thank you which happens to like the idea of this initiative. I have listened to Chip, I have done my own research and I have also read what’s been published. I think this idea is a good one and think this is a matter of politicians/board members who don’t want to change because of the way things have been traditionally been done. Sometimes you have to think outside of the box and these folks don’t want to do that. So your suggestion that I am ill-informed is just silly and a sad attempt on your part to discredit my opinion.
As for Wilmington Trust, please don’t play stupid. When a bank’s rating is downgraded as WT’s was, that suggests that there are serious issues. I don’t want anyone holding my money, especially a significant amount, if it appears (based on it’s rating) that they may be headed out of business. WT has way too much of the State’s money to take the chance of exposure to financial disaster.
The bottom line is what you call “dubious” is judged as such because it is a different way than what it has been done previously. You say that there is no evidence that Chip’s progrram will work. There is also no evidence that it won’t work. As for Chip not explaining about how this would work, you know that’s BS. All he’s done is talk about the program and the difference it would make from the current system. You should probably quit twisting the facts and go get informed yourself.
Maybe this is actually best practice and DE won’t budge because the elite is protecting their own. This blog is all too often just a kneejerk to HIGH DEM HACKery……
Treasurer Steve Grossman offers ‘More Money’ to Mass. businesses
By Will Richmond, Herald News
State Treasurer Steve Grossman wants to invest in the commonwealth, and he has at least $100 million to spend.
Grossman pitched his “Move Money” program to local bank leaders on Wednesday in an effort to increase loans to the state’s small businesses. Grossman said the slow pace of the economic recovery has made it difficult for small businesses to obtain loans, and local and regional banks should be the ones prepared to help. Grossman described the program to The Herald News editorial board prior to his meeting with bank leaders.
To help the banks, Grossman is committed to allocating at least $100 million for deposit into participating banks as part of the first phase of the program. Banks participating in the program will be eligible for deposits up to $5 million.
Grossman said southeastern Massachusetts will be represented in the program with banks such as Citizens Union, Rockland Trust and Mechanics Corporation among the 60 to 70 banks that will ultimately participate. Grossman said 24 banks have agreed to join in.
Banks must be headquartered in Massachusetts to participate, and will have to adhere to criteria including regulations on interest rates applied to the loans. Banks in the program will also be required to promote the program to small businesses in their market area.
Grossman said a good deal of the state’s money is currently held in banks around the world, including many in Europe, rather than local institutions.
“Let’s take Massachusetts taxpayers money, put it in Massachusetts banks and loan it to Massachusetts businesses,” Grossman said.
Bolstering the state’s small businesses, Grossman said, should have a ripple effect on the local economy, especially considering the impact those businesses already have within the state.
Based on state data contained in a summary of the “Move Money” proposal, small businesses and sole proprietors make up 85 percent of the state’s businesses. Those businesses have, in turn, historically accounted for two-thirds of the new jobs created in the state.
“Anything we can do as a commonwealth to help small businesses grow, develop, flourish, is the centerpiece of what we should be doing,” Grossman said.
The total allocation to be deposited in banks could increase as the program continues, Grossman said. He estimated Wednesday that the $100 million will be accounted for by the end of May. As more money goes into the program, Grossman said he will not invest more than what the commonwealth can afford.
“We won’t deposit so much that we have to pull it back out and we won’t deposit what the commonwealth needs for cash flow,” Grossman said.
http://www.heraldnews.com/archive/x2057181186/Treasurer-Steve-Grossman-offers-More-Money-to-Mass-businesses#ixzz1KdnU4bik
“because I don’t agree with you or your assessment I am a sock puppet.”
The sock puppet line was a reference to a couple of others who have fought for Chip on this blog. In your case, you acknowledged you didn’t know the details and didn’t care, because you’re a Flowers fan.
“I think this idea is a good one and think this is a matter of politicians/board members who don’t want to change because of the way things have been traditionally been done.”
What research and reading did you do to determine these people “don’t want to change because of the way things have traditionally been done.” This is a bullshit complaint from Chip. You don’t know how they have traditionally been done, or why. All you know is that Chip has some self-aggrandizing plan to do things differently.
“So your suggestion that I am ill-informed is just silly and a sad attempt on your part to discredit my opinion.”
No, it’s a reaction to your lack of knowledge about the duties of the treasurer’s office.
“As for Wilmington Trust, please don’t play stupid. When a bank’s rating is downgraded as WT’s was, that suggests that there are serious issues. I don’t want anyone holding my money, especially a significant amount, if it appears (based on it’s rating) that they may be headed out of business. WT has way too much of the State’s money to take the chance of exposure to financial disaster.”
This seals the evidence that you’re a moron. Think for a minute, oh mental midget, of what would happen if the state pulled all its deposits out of Wilmington Trust, a bank that still employs 2,000 people even after the layoffs. It would lead directly to a crisis, perhaps the bank’s failure. If you would, as treasurer, be stupid enough to do this, you must also be stupid enough to act as an adviser to Chip Flowers. Hey, at least you’re not playing dumb — you really are dumb.
“The bottom line is what you call “dubious” is judged as such because it is a different way than what it has been done previously.”
No, it’s dubious because the state would be giving up the interest it currently earns on that money for the privilege of giving Chip Flowers millions of dollars to invest as he chooses.
“You say that there is no evidence that Chip’s progrram will work. There is also no evidence that it won’t work.”
I’m trying to think of a less compelling reason to adopt the plan, and I”m coming up empty. Maybe a simple quiz will help. Complete the quote: “If it ain’t broke, ——–.”
“As for Chip not explaining about how this would work, you know that’s BS. All he’s done is talk about the program and the difference it would make from the current system.”
And, after talking about it to the administration, he came away with the utterly inaccurate impression that nobody had any problems with it.
“You should probably quit twisting the facts and go get informed yourself.”
You should probably stop pleasuring Mr. Flowers and tell him that if he thinks what people are saying about him in public is bad, he should hear how this is going over in private.
Gee I wonder what the Delaware Public Policy Institute had to say about all this. (Although they are a private think tank here in Delaware) they carry more weight than most know about. In fact, last night on Ed show he showed that every state has these right wing think tanks who are over ruling the public every day. My question about WT, was why they got a bailout? We all thought they were all that, looks like something funny went down there. There are other states starting to do what Chip is suggesting. But we dont know how its all turning out. The idea was that big banksters arent giving out money to small business, but if local state banks had some money they would agree and that would create some jobs. I think its the way Flowers proposed it, and with him as the top guy and thats whats pissing people off. He get should more facts first.