Crossing the Line
We’ve all done it. We here at DL, and our friends over at DP have both crossed the line from time to time when putting up posts.
The most recent incident occurred a couple of weeks ago when Fay Voshell put up a post at DP that she thought was funny. The post included a video from a movie that included Hitler in it. Except in Fay’s version, Hitler was really President Obama and his advisors were telling him that the Attack Watch website was a failure.
I took exception to the video, in the comments section of Fay’s post and here. And we are not blameless, as back in 2008, we ran a blog post using the very same video to mock the downfall of the economy during W’s regime. (This was before my time here as a contributor).
I find any post that mock’s the Holocaust extremely unsettling. I lost relatives in the camps. My family only found out this information after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the opening of archives in East Germany and the old Soviet Union. Aunts, uncles, and cousins who decided to stay in Eastern Europe when the rest of my family immigrated between 1892-1907 perished.
And now, the Anti-Defamation League has weighed in. In a letter sent to David Anderson, the ADL has advised him that the use of the video was inappropriate. From the letter:
The Delaware Politics website promotes itself as a place “where public policy meets common sense.” We do not see how using this excerpt is consistent with this stated policy. The piece trivializes the Holocaust. It draws inappropriate comparisons that offend the sensibilities of Holocaust survivors and those who appreciate the gravity of one of the most tragic episodes in human history. From our perspective, any use of the Holocaust for political or commercial purposes is off limits.
You may know that the Anti-Defamation League is a human relations agency dedicated to fighting anti-Semitism and hatred, bigotry and prejudice in all forms. Consistent with our mission, we believe there is great value in preserving and perpetuating the proper and correct lessons of the Holocaust. Any use of Holocaust imagery symbols or events should be for these purposes only and not for mercenary manipulative and self-serving objectives.
Anderson probably got the letter because he is an elected official, and we should expect more from out elected officials, whether we agree with their politics or not.
As I said, we here at DL are not blameless in this, as we have posted up videos of the same movie. And it’s just as wrong when we do it. All of us, on both sides of the political divide, need to learn a lesson from this. While we will still call out hypocrisy and wrong-headed ideas from the other side, we need to do it without using images from one of our darkest historical periods.
Tags: hate speech, hitler, Holocaust
I think we’ve all had a chuckle at some iteration of that video at some point. When we do so, we are laughing, in part, at history’s greatest loser. Hitler lost. Suck it Hitler, you piece of shit. Your views have no currency with the vast majority of human beings.
There is the rub. Intentions matter. When you are talking about people like David Andersen and other posters at DL you don’t know how much of the laughing is at Hitler or at the victims of totalitarianism.
Andersen is on record saying that brutal regime of Augusto Pinochet only erred in it’s technique not in its goals. Being familiar with the kind of extreme hate that the DP crowd trades in, I’m disinclined to cut them slack on something like this.
The ones I chuckle at are the ones where Hitler is shown going off his rocker at something trivial. In these, the joke is at Hitler’s expense. Hitler is playing himself. Hitler=Hitler.
But in version DP posted, Hitler is portraying Obama. The joke is at Obama’s expense, or rather, at the expense of Obama supporters. Obama=Hitler. Democrats=Nazis. That is the difference.
Even so, I wouldn’t ask to suppress it. I’d rather let it stand to bear witness to the mindset of its creators, much as we preserve ironwork and chimneys at some of the camps.
I don’t agree that jokes at Hitler’s expense are “trivializing the Holocaust.” If we got over “Hogan’s Heroes” we can get over this.
I call BS on this ADL letter. Have they sent letters to any of the college boosters that ran with this Hitler meme? I doubt it. Have they sent letters to BoingBoing for their repeated linking of the Hitler meme? Once again, I doubt it.
I’ll leave you with this quote for Annie Hall as Alvy Singer visits LA: “What’s with all these awards? They’re always giving out awards. Best Fascist Dictator: Adolf Hitler. “
The letter is useless, David Anderson will wear it like a Badge of Honor. Just like when Anderson’s real G-d, Glen Urquhart, said, “the next time your liberal friends talk about ‘separation of church and state’ ask them why they’re Nazis”and the HoPo slammed him for it, Urquhart called it a “Badge of Honor.”
I expect the usual response from the right, they’ll point out things that liberals said to justify their own statements.
Anderson claims the moral high ground, but he’s never lived his political life on it.
well written post MJ and thoughtfully done – It takes a big person/org to admit that they have done wrong – or at least something not ethical.
What I find interesting is that David Anderson and DP has been quiet on the letter they received – WHY SO??
Shame??
the writer here not only took the opportunity to take the moral high ground, but also pointed out that this blog is not blameless too.
That alone speaks volumes!! – if it ever even gets mentioned over on the other side, it will be justifucation, justification and we ll everyone does it
remember – an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind!
Good Job Delaware Liberal for standing up and standing out~!
You may be correct, anon, but I wouldn’t call a public rebuke by a leading civil rights group something honorable.
I stand by Fay and her right to freedom of expression. While it was not my preference, I do not believe the obvious sarcasm which was so noted had anything whatsoever to do with the Holocaust. It did not even reference the current administration, but poked fun at what many believed to be an intrusive government activity. It was making a statement on behalf of liberty by involking our memory of a terrible tyranny which started by excusing the excesses of a democratically elected leader. It in no way belittled the precious memory of those brutally killed. We honor their memory and by keeping the flame of freedom alive and not relegating the slide to tyranny represented by the Nazi Party to the realm of the unspoken, we believe it is the highest and best way to honor them.
Huge fail, David. The video clearly equates President Obama with Hitler. It was not making any type of statement on behalf of liberty. That’s pure bullshit and I’m calling you on it. If it was so sarcastic, why did the ADL write you and tell you that you were wrong? Answer that question!
Sure, Republican David, AttackWatch is exactly like a regime that slaughtered 11 million people. Just like Americans who believe in separation of church and state are just like a regime that slaughtered 11 million people.
Every time people, liberal or conservative, make ridiculous comparisons between modern day US politics and Hitler and/or the Holocaust it most certainly does “belittle the precious memory of those brutally killed.”
Try honoring those who perished in the Holocaust by not turning the regime that killed them into your political jokes.
At least those at DL had the courage to admit they were wrong when they posted the video.
Aoine – you were right – justification, justification, justification. No morals whatsoever.
No, silly and no one said it was. It is the slide to tyranny being highlighted. I see that as an essential good not worthy of any apology. Some people though Jonathan Swift was serious with A Modest Proposal. He was not in eating Irish children, but in shocking people into seeing the effect British policy was having on a generation of Irish people. The Holocaust is not only thing the regime of Adolf Hitler is known for. He is known for the rise of tyranny, the Holocaust, facist economic policies, repression of free political and religious expression, racism, and empire building. Comparing one specific area does not equate to the entire package. It is too obvious from the spoof what it meant; the only reason a complaint was made is that its target is on the left and not pc.
In a free country, everyone has a right to their point of view. The ADL has expressed theirs. I disagree respectfully. Fay’s relaying of the popular video neither produced or originated by us as a discussion item on the serious topic of freedom of speech ironically is being protested itself almost proving her point prima facie.
As for DL admitting they were wrong, I think 3 years late is a joke in and of itself. They should have the courage to stand for free poliical expression. Not having that courage is something I hope they will apologize for upon reflection.
For being as moderate in our style as any out there, we have gotten our share of complaints and will just toss this on in the pile. Some have resulted in policy change in our periodic reviews and some have strengthened our resolve to stand tall for speech that enlightens and challenges.
I hated how Hogan always made fun of the Nazi’s.
But seriously, not all Downfall parodies are inappropriate. I would go so far as to say that most of them are fine, funny and in no way minimize the horrors of the Nazi regime.
When Hitler rails against “yet another Twitter outage” it has nothing to do with Hitler. The same thing could be done for Atilla the Hun, Napoleon or Idi Amin, but we don’t have an awesome movie scene to apply the joke to for those personalities.
I agree LG. The fact that Hitler was the first regime to make wide use of TV, radio, and movies put his image in the public psche globally. That is why he is involked so much in areas of tyranny, facism, and empire building. The Holocaust is pretty much left untouched by most because of the horror and still sensative feelings of the few survivors and the many in the generation right behind. I personally like to steer away from it for those reasons.
I reject the idea that the other areas are not fair game. To the contrary, I think it is important we keep people educated about how an educated, democratic country, can slip into tyranny in a few short years and what policies promote that.
I also thank Nemski for standing for free speech.
Yes MJ sadly – he talks about freedom of speech but they censor, censor, censor perceived personal attacks and “bad” language – yet by posting what they do, they allow hatred and vitrolic towards our President, latinos. minorities, liberals and anyone else that dares oppose them – but allow the minimizing of one of the most horrible episodes in modern history.
we allow free expression, bad language and attacks – but also admit mistakes – and as for timing – well better late than never, and it still took “fortitude”
As AA teaches, most of recovery is admitting the issue. – they are not even there.
obviously, they had the chance for introspection and enlightenment and chose to squander it.
their loss, leave them to it
Serial killers, pedophiles and rapists, along with addicts all justiy their actions too.
Posting a link to a conservative PAC’s campaign finance page is so offensive it needs to be censored by the people at DelawarePolitics but using Hitler to criticize AttackWatch is free speech.
There is no justification for their selective censoring or outrage.
Republican David has some nerve making himself and his blog out to be some f*cking standard bearer for liberty and free speech.
This is not about free speech, David, and you know it. It is about what is acceptable speech by a public official. You are that public official and since you run DP, you are responsible for what is posted there. And comparing the President to Hitler, as that video did, is not acceptable, anywhere.
It doesn’t even mention the President, MJ, it was all about AttackWatch which we see as a slippery slope. It was edgy, but appropriate. Our authors have pretty much full autonomy. I wouldn’t have it anyother way. It gives us vibrance and creativity. I refuse to back away from that principle. Yes, it is about freedom of speech. Now we will just get more readers due to publicity in the major news media. The best part is that it will shine a light on a practice by the administration that is shameful.
Anon, we posed a link to that website twice and when it was removed for other reasons which had to do with violations of sockpuppet policies, the link itself was posted by another author with my full support as a front page article. So instead of being buried in comment 200 something, it was elevated to the front page. That is hardly censorship.
Keep telling yourself that, David. You really need to clean those rose-colored glasses you view the world through. And by getting more readers, if that means more than the 6 people that currently read DP, well, I guess you can puff out your chest at promoting hate and desecrating the memories of 11 million people who died in the Holocaust. Yeah, I’d be really proud of that.
In Germany they first came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me —
and by that time no one was left to speak up.
—Pastor Martin Niemöller
Sure david…u will get readers….just like colley was published….
But r they the readership you want? And did colley want to be published by a white supremist web site?
Porn atttracts viewers too.david
See…its about QUALITY..not QUANTITY.
In fact..we now what you and your blow mates are…we are only haggling over the price…
In fact..the fact that u have used so much time to defend your website and post speaks volumes in and of itself
Game,set,match.
“Anon, we posed a link to that website twice and when it was removed for other reasons which had to do with violations of sockpuppet policies, the link itself was posted by another author with my full support as a front page article. So instead of being buried in comment 200 something, it was elevated to the front page. That is hardly censorship.”
“We” didn’t post the link to the website, commenters on your site did, it was one of your “authors” who censored the link. Why did the other author need your “full support” to repost the link if, as you allege, your authors have “full autonomy”?
I call BS.
And just as I predicted, Republican David is wearing it as a badge of honor, and can’t wait for the increased traffic his site will now get. No morals whatsoever.
Yes one removed it and one elevated. He didn’t need my support, but he had it. I so communicated it to him. In fact, I intended to do so myself even though far from censoring, something already posted, Don removed a post that violated the rules of no more than two identities per post. We did that because one particular person pretended to be 9 or 10 people and tried to attack one of our commenters.
Now anon, how can you say that we censored, but we didn’t post it. Now I had no knowlege of it being removed until the author called me. When I explained the rule, he apologized. I told him he could repost it, but then I decided to it myself to remove any doubt. Frank beat me to it that morning. Subject resolved. Only you can complain about a buried item being front page as censorship. It has even less validity than your complaint about Fay’s link to a parody.
MJ, we would never desecrate the memory of the Holocaust. You know that wasn’t done. The fact that you would proclaim such a thing seems a real example of spreading hatred.
As for a badge of honor, no. I see it as background noise. I don’t let background noise distract me from my mission of protecting our civil liberties and rights from an encroaching government and intolerant segment of our society. That intolerance is found on right, left, and center. If my good friend brought more light on attackwatch which is an example of that, then I consider that a good thing.
I believe in the moral superiority of liberty anon. You believe in I don’t know what. I have no issue with where I stand.
“I have no issue with where I stand” David Anderson
But you see David, the Anti-Defamation League, one of the PREMIER human relations organizations in the United States DOES, that is the problem – you are so completely tone deaf. You have been measured, and found wanting. Does that make you proud. No matter what you meant or say you didnt do, the FACT remains is the organization that decides these things have said you are culpable.
“there is great value in preserving and perpetuating the proper and correct lessons of the Holocaust…..Any use of Holocaust imagery symbols or events should be for these purposes only and not for mercenary manipulative and self-serving objectives” ADL to David Anderson
you see David the above is the seminal issue here – and yet you fail to see it.
you tried to dodge and weave and deflect – not happening Jackson.
your blog was called out by the NJ for the “round them up in pickup trucks with shotguns” comment, and now this. you must really see yourself as a martyr.
Sure, you just got more attention – wanna wait until you are named a “hate group” by the SPL and the ADL? Will that be a bigger badge of honor?
You are in defensive mode and it really is sad to see – the folks that posted the offensive comment are where exactly? Faye is not shy about coming in here usually…or Don Ayotte or Frank Knotts or Geezer.
Dave Burris is probably rolling in pain that it has come to this..the blog he founded allowed to slide this far down..
One final question David – have you responded to the ADL as they requested? have you reached out to them to explain yourself?? like you have here> I wonder….
Blah, blah, blah. David, calling you out for a tasteless post that did cause emotional hurt to many people is spreading hate? Buddy, you really need to get back on your meds because now you’re just talking crazy.