Comment Rescue: Newbie Suze Lays It Down
The point is that Sara Palin wants to legislate teaching abstinence. Her daughter is a prime example of how it doesn’t work, so she’s fair game. My one question to Palin would be, “How’s that abstinence program workin for ya?” I love how conservatives follow the “do as I say,not as I do philosophy-no hypocrisy there!
Failure rate of abstinence VS. condoms VS. the pill?
All just statistics.
Which one would you rather teach your 14-year-old daughter?
17 is young, but not sex ed young….
can I choose all 3?
Sure….but if they fail, you’re responsible for another life….man up and accept it
Bristol is 14?
Wait…what?
13 or 14 is the usual sex ed age, where the method-du-jour would be promoted.
you aren’t really that dense, are ya?
I expect more.
You do realize this EXACT reasoning can be applied to Obama as well?
What do you mean do as I say. Did Sarah Palin teach her children to have out of wedlock sex? If you have no proof of that than you have no argument. It seems to show that Bristol being subjected to years of comprehensive sex ed got the message. Do it and hope it works out.
In reality, none of us know anything and it is not our business to find out. No crime was committed so it is not a public matter. The girl is not even a public figure. I hope she sues some of the outrageous outlets like the Daily Kos. Her mom may not be able to but she could.
I hope she sues
Sues on what grounds? Link please, to something actionable.
I have not heard anyone attack Bristol Palin & read blogs extensively……
just the reverse…..there is more understanding on the progressive side….the Repubs are just finding their voice on the this topic.
The problem is & always has been Sara Palin….& she is in no way off limits for attack….
Teen pregnancy rates have continued to climb despite schools teaching comprehensive sex education curricula. So obviously that’s not working either now is it?
Mother:”Don’t touch the stove honey, its hot.”
tic tic SSSS
Child:”OW!!!”
“Teen pregnancy rates have continued to climb despite schools teaching comprehensive sex education curricula. So obviously that’s not working either now is it?”
And you have no idea whether those pregnancies are wanted or unwanted, now do you?
Actually, abstinence tends to work pretty damned well for the whole “not getting pregnant” thing… and the whole “not getting an STD”, too.
The fact is, Bristol made a choice. She made a choice to have unprotected sex. She still could have made that choice even after being inundated with modern “sex ed” classes, or just being taught an “abstinence-only” education. But to try and blame Palin for the actions of her child (at least in this, particular case)… that just reeks of desperation.
And, no matter how you cut it, the media firestorm that erupted around this child was totally, completely, and utterly intended to splatter Palin with the blame, and attack her as a person and a candidate. Trying to use a person’s child as leverage against them… talk about low. But, like all of the rumors, fabrications, and mistruths that have been uttered about Palin, this never really gained any traction outside of the Kossites and other such morons… must sting a little.
Actually, we have no idea how this will play out. And nobody used Bristol’s pregnancy more than her mother. Again, what did Palin expect to happen? That her family would be the exception?
In some ways this reminds me of the Edwards’ affair. Neither one of these people have the right to be shocked. It was, after all, to be expected.
“abstinence tends to work pretty damned well”
An incredibly forceful arguement. If we can agree that unwanted teen pregnancy is a crisis in this country then your course of action is inaction. No doubt, 100% effective. While that may work well for those flat earthers that actually practice what their mothers preach, the rest of us that evolved from between 400,000 and 250,000 years ago remain active and curious about our bodies at a young age. Its irresponsible not to cover all bases of prevention and protection and its reprehensible to outlaw choice for women.
Anon:
“Sues on what grounds? Link please, to something actionable.”
Slander and/or liable. She’s not a public figure.
Al:
“And you have no idea whether those pregnancies are wanted or unwanted, now do you?”
C’mon Al, give me a break. Just how many teen pregnancies are wanted v. unwanted? By that logic, do you know if Bristol’s pregnancy was wanted or unwanted?
Linoge:
“The fact is, Bristol made a choice. She made a choice to have unprotected sex.”
Were you there? She may have used birth control and it may have failed. Perhaps as Al suggests, this was a planned pregnancy.
Would those here who favor comprehensive sex ed also support training in firearms usage and safety for their kids rather than just keeping them away from firearms? If not, why not?
Because nothing says Culture War better than deciding to train your kids in how to manage their sexuality vs. how to kill people.
Get in the conversation here, Duffy….
” train your kids in how to manage their sexuality”
I opt for training. From all reports I’ve gotten I could learn a thing or two.
And I can’t imagine how any of them could have a lawsuit since they are the ones making this stuff public.
What I am interested in is in seeing if the far right actually deal with issues of sexuality and responsibility in a more forthright and accepting manner — letting go the judgment and demonization of kids and families who find themselves in this situation.
Haven’t teenage pregnancies been declining over the years?
Also, how do you know the Palin kid wasn’t using contraceptives?
The media blows so-called “abstinence-only” sex education into something it isn’t. I went through 12 years of Catholic schooling and everyone knew how contraceptives worked. We also knew that our sexuality was more than just a hobby.
Fair enough, Duffy – I should have simply left it at, “The fact is, Bristol made a choice. She made a choice to have sex.” And in making that choice, she took upon herself the responsibility for all of the possible outcomes of that action.
And you are right, Cass – not having sex is a 100% (well, 99.999999…%) effective means of not getting pregnant. Wierd how that works. What I am proposing is actually not inaction, but thanks for putting words in my mouth… always good to get a little help. Instead, what I, personally, am proposing is that the school systems have no business teaching other people’s children anything about sex – it should be a matter solely between the children in question and their respective parents/guardians. The child is going to do what the child is going to do regardless – Bristol is a good example of that. But, if nothing else, taking into account our low and constantly decreasing educational scores, schools simply do not have the time to waste on “sex ed” (especially considering, as you so kindly pointed out, that decades of “sex ed” so far have not accomplished a darn thing).
And, Pandora, if you were able to write that comment with a straight face, it is honestly time to get your head checked. The rantings and ravings across the sinister-leaning blogosphere about Bristol in specific and the rest of Palin’s family in general is nothing short of astounding.
“Because nothing says Culture War better than deciding to train your kids in how to manage their sexuality vs. how to kill people.”
Firearms safety has nothing whatsoever to do with “training kids how to kill people.” If you seriously believe that you have mental issues.
Linoge, again it comes down to inaction. Too many parents don’t have the uncomfortable discussions with their kids.Maybe those kids are more likely to engage in unprotected sex. Regardless, too many times the burden falls to the taxpayer to assist these unfortunates. Since my tax dollars go to public education as well, I’d like to try to lessen the said burden.
Joe – By the time you’re 17 you know damn well that having sex without protection = babies. Even teens in catholic schools with no sex-ed know this, and they know what birth control and condoms are for.
mikie, 17 was 13 years ago for me and I went to catholic school. You can presume to correct me when you put down your sippy cup and start wearing big boy pants.
Oh snap!
I see Joe has a grasp of how things work here. Don’t address what I said, just attempt to attack my age with juvenile crap.
Care to explain how what I said in #24 is wrong?
I can correct you whenever I damn well please, regardless of how old you are.
Wait a minute… sex ed is taught in Catholic Schools.
“The rantings and ravings across the sinister-leaning blogosphere about Bristol in specific and the rest of Palin’s family in general is nothing short of astounding.”
Astounding, Linoge? Seems a little dramatic. My point is that this should have been expected and planned for. Palin should have known what was coming. The idea that she was singled out is nonsense.
Mike W., Thank you! You have given me the opportunity do do what the editors and more experienced posters do here: ignore trolls. So for my final mistake of responding to someone as mentally challenged as yourself: my posts are written in English and are self-explanatory. Mike, thanks for releasing me. I love you. Now go polish your barrel.
Joe – I see, like some others here you’ve proven unable, or unwilling to address the merits of arguments and instead rely on obfuscation and ad hominems.
You fit right in.
“Astounding, Linoge? Seems a little dramatic. My point is that this should have been expected and planned for. Palin should have known what was coming. The idea that she was singled out is nonsense.”
Pandora – So the vile treatment of her and her family by the left is perfectly acceptable because “she should have known what was coming?” Boy, you liberals sure are tolerant, compassionate and decent folks. Don’t you consistently bash Conservative talk radio as “hate speech?”
I seem to remember Al Gore’s kid having problems with the law, same with Biden’s daughter and the words from the left were “this is a private matter.” Palin has an (R) next to her name, so that goes out the window and the claws come out.
Your bias and obvious double standards are showing Pandora.
And all of us said “Well I guess Al Gore ain’t running for President now.”
And Edwards was banished by the Dems to no man’s land.
“And Edwards was banished by the Dems to no man’s land.”
That was something HE did, not something his daughter did.
What about Clinton. He had an affair, lied to America about it, and lied under oath. Where was the liberal outrage? Even now liberals act as if what he did was no big deal, even though he committed perjury and was disbarred.
And Pandora – Are you going to answer the question?
I have been crystal clear that I don’t like going after families. And had I been in Palin’s position I would have turned the VP slot down if I thought it would hurt my daughter. Seventeen seems so young to be thrust into this circus.
If I had taken the VP slot I would have braced myself – insulated my family as best I could – for the assault this news would generate. I also would have never tried to keep up appearances with a shot-gun engagement.
Still, you don’t see anything wrong with placing the blame on Palin and not on the folks on the left who are making these attacks?
If she’d dropped out because of this you’d be bashing her for that. If she’d shunned her daughter and acted ashamed of what happened you’d bash her for that. She stayed steadfast with her family, and with her career. How is that different than what Biden did? I commend biden for it just as I commend Palin. Giving up and bowing out is the easy way out.
And who says the marriage was “for appearances?” Maybe they believe that if you get someone pregnant you should marry them? I don’t personally believe that’s required so long as both parents respect eachother and put aside differences while responsibly caring for their child. That said, my beliefs & values in this matter are mine, not the Palin’s.
Whats wrong with acting in accordance with their beliefs?
Do not put words in my mouth, Mike. I would not have “bashed” her for any of that. I’m not “bashing” her now, but you refuses to get that since it doesn’t fit with your talking point. All I have said is that Palin knew what was coming. As far as Biden, I would say the same.
Now, I am done with this point. I have made myself clear. I am not bashing Palin over her choice, merely stating that her choice came with consequences she was fully aware.
Pandora – So the vile treatment of her and her family by the left is perfectly acceptable because “she should have known what was coming?” Boy, you liberals sure are tolerant, compassionate and decent folks. Don’t you consistently bash Conservative talk radio as “hate speech?”
So are you going to answer this? You seem to froth at the mouth about evil, vile hate speech when conservative talk radio says “mean things.” Where’s the “they should know what’s coming” when the tables are turned?
No one other than trolls on sites is going after her family.
People are noting the sheer hypocrisy of the far right screaming the Leave Sarah alone while using her daughter’s situation as a teachable moment for their own flocks:
Gov. Palin and her husband “have embraced the grandchild about to be born,” Gary Bauer, a social conservative activist and onetime presidential candidate, told the Texas delegation. “They already are teaching America a lesson about the sanctity of life,” he added, as the delegates jumped to their feet in applause.
solely from the left, mike?
I can find remarks from all over the political spectrum.
Hey if Obama’s kids are off limits so are hers. Hell, his race is off limits even when there’s something valid to be said on the issue (like Ferraro’s comments)
I didn’t say some conervatives weren’t engaging in it as well.
That said, it’s hypocritical for you folks to scream about conservative hate speech while you sit here and defend the same vile shit coming from the left towards a Republican.
Well there isn’t any.
And if there was you would have linked to one of the major names indulging in it.
You really must work at this talking points thing.
I think the criticism of her pregnant daughter is not personal; it’s a microcosm of Palin’s stated political/social belief that abstinence works and is the only way…
She made it an issue and she’s responsible for the backlash.
Cassandra – Have you read the shit coming out of Daily Kos? Hell you guys link to them on the left of the page.
MikeW… provide some links to a Kos diary attacking the girl, or STFU. Obviously you don’t read it yourself.
Or maybe you are thinking of the inane Dr. Laura, who clearly wants to know:
I’m stunned – couldn’t the Republican Party find one competent female with adult children to run for Vice President with McCain? I realize his advisors probably didn’t want a “mature” woman, as the Democrats keep harping on his age. But really, what kind of role model is a woman whose fifth child was recently born with a serious issue, Down Syndrome, and then goes back to the job of Governor within days of the birth?
Hard to now, anon – the Kossites did what a lot of the liberal/left/sinister-leaning weblogs out there do when they are called on something atrocious/erroneous/false/disgusting – they deleted it. “Down the memory hole”, so to speak. Nice strawman, though.
Click all the links and do some reading please.
http://rachellucas.com/index.php/2008/09/03/i-continue-to-be-impressed-with-the-dignity-and-intelligence-of-the-palin-haters/
http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/09/01/beneath-contempt-the-assualt-on-sarah-palins-daughter/
They’ve scrubbed their site of some stuff.
http://waronguns.blogspot.com/2008/09/kosmissar-vanishes.html
I’ve got plenty more if you want it.
You’ve produced nothing yet (as usual).
Links to key writers on a liberal blog. Trolling the comments for fodder is Bill O’Reilly territory.
Put up or shut up.
sheesh, haven’t you trolls learned to chop off the “http://www” so WordPress doesn’t recognize it as a link and spam-can you?
If Linoge is right, then Mike will give us a bunch of non-working links, because the comments were deleted.
“You’ve produced nothing yet (as usual).
Links to key writers on a liberal blog. Trolling the comments for fodder is Bill O’Reilly territory.
Put up or shut up.”
See this DD and Jason! ? Better send Cassandra a warning e-mail and give her a “time-out.” (yeah, like that’ll happen….)
http://waronguns.blogspot.com/2008/09/kosmissar-vanishes
http://rachellucas.com/index.php/2008/09/03/i-continue-to-be-impressed-with-the-dignity-and-intelligence-of-the-palin-haters/
“You’ve produced nothing yet (as usual).
That’s the ironic statement of the century coming from Cassandra.
Trolling comments is all your links did and I saw, frankly one comment that I’d consider beyond the pale.
Where are the editors of these sites egging this crap on? That is what you need to provide links to. We find you to be a troll, and yet here you and your inanity are ready to be easy fodder for somebody making a lazy-ass point. But, of course, you don’t have any.
And stuff disappearing from Kos? They operate as a community where folks have the opportunity to down-rate comments. Get enough low ratings and your comments disappear to all but the site editors and Trusted Users. A community that polices itself works at keeping up its standards.
“We find you to be a troll”
I find some of you to be complete idiots incapable of sound, reasoned debate quite frankly, but at the same time you’re kinda sad and funny.
And still not able to back up your point.
Idiot.
http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/271927.php
“frankly one comment that I’d consider beyond the pale.”
Frankly, considering what I’ve seen from you and others here at DE Liberal I’d venture to say we have wildly different ideas of what’s considered “decency.”
Speaking of backing up what you say. Care to backup what you said in comment #17, which I responded to in #22?
You are sending us links from rightwing sites, Mike! That’s not the evidence you claimed to have.
The parentage of Trig was discussed among Alaskans long before DailyKos ever heard of it (and still is).
alaskapodshow.com/index.php/2008/08/30/sarah-palin-pregnancy-scandal/
The evidence does seem to leave the matter ambiguous. Even if true though, clearly any discussion about responsibility is aimed at Sarah and not the girl.
So this diversion to another comment — is that an admission that you can’t even back up your own claims? I still don’t see any evidence of the main writers or editors or even major commentors on any of the liberal sites whipping up all of this hatred you claim.
Is this your way of calling Uncle?
And you already know that we are completely unconcerned with whatever you definition of decency is, yes?
Yes, I’ve seen your concept of “decency” in action on this blog. It makes me quite glad I’m not a Delaware liberal.
Not to mention the laughable stuff you consider “debate” at times.
You are just giving up on the proof then? Admitting that you were just trotting out a scurrilous talking point?
And you already know that we are completely unconcerned with whatever your definition of debate is, yes?
Cassandra:
“Because nothing says Culture War better than deciding to train your kids in how to manage their sexuality vs. how to kill people.”
That’s strawman. I was arguing that they should know how to properly handle a dangerous weapon. Kids who are not properly trained are the ones who shoot themselves or others when they don’t know what to do.
Taking your tact, I could reword your statement as:
“Because nothing says Culture War better than deciding to train your kids in how to become prostitutes vs. how to use their Second Amendment rights.”
Well, that tack might actually work if you could show me a sex ed course for kids and teens that actually taught them how to be prostitutes.
Likewise, Cassandra. Please show me a firearms education class for kids that actually teaches them how to “kill people”, explicitly, and in detail. Otherwise, you might want to take a look in the mirror when you need to start reflexively calling people “trolls” again.
Ah, so Cassandra is shying away and hedging when asked to backup what she says……hmmm. Put up or shut up?…..
If you’re going to accuse me you might want to look at yourself 1st.
You forget Linoge – According to certain folks simply picking up a firearm turns you into a killer via mind control, no need for education.
Right, and simply having sexual organs that dangle could turn you into a rapist, and simply having sexual organs that are visually pleasing could turn you into a prostitute. Therefore, both groups should be summarily imprisoned for conspiracy to commit rape/illegal sexual activities.
It is kind of sad, really, how the troll formerly known as “cassandra” painted herself so perfectly into a corner… The call-out practically wrote itself.
“It is kind of sad, really, how the troll formerly known as “cassandra” painted herself so perfectly into a corner… The call-out practically wrote itself.”
True. Cassandra, Pandora and others practically make my points for me. (as they have yet again in this case) It’s no wonder then why folks like she and Pandora get so hostile and pissy with me.
And as usual Cass has no rebuttal.