“Concerned Neighbors Of Cooke Elementary School” VS The Red Clay School Board
I plan on attending the RCCD school board meeting tomorrow night (7pm at Brandywine Springs Elementary School). This is going to be interesting, mainly because the Concerned Neighbors of Cooke Elementary School’s stated concerns regarding the addition of Lancaster Court Apartments to Cooke’s feeder don’t hold water – they also keep changing. If you haven’t read my previous post on this issue and the comments, you should do so. Cooke commenters didn’t hold back on this thread. It’s quite enlightening and very sad.
Let’s go back and look at the original position that was edited to remove the line I’ve bold-ed:
Protest of Red Clay School Board’s Attendance Zone Decision for Cooke Elementary School
We demand that the Red Clay Consolidated School District School Board reverse their October 15 decision to deviate from the Attendance Zone feeder pattern that had been presented by the Attendance Zone Committee and accepted by the community. This last-minute decision undermined six months of work by the Attendance Zone Committee and did not give the community an opportunity to voice concerns. The students of Lancaster Court Apartments will not benefit from this decision, and the decision contradicts the Neighborhood Schools Act. The Board’s action was not ethical and the decision is not acceptable.
To understand where they are coming with the bold sentence we need to look no further than the comment left on the i-petition by the Concerned Neighbors of Cooke Elementary School:
“Absolutely agreed, Xudong! Board member Cathy Thompson (the only Board Member to vote AGAINST this motion) said that if we have an awesome turnout at the meeting, then there is a chance for the decision to be reversed!!! Show up no later than 6:30 at Brandywine Springs School prepared to share your points in 3 minutes or less. Main points can include:
1) The Board’s decision was not the right thing to do;
2) The community was given no voice as a result of their last-minute action;
3) This decision is NOT in the best interest of Lancaster Court Apartment students as they will not be eligible for Title 1 (special school funding and other benefits) that they would receive at another school. How is this helping students??
4) This decision violates the Neighborhood Schools Act;
5) Passing of the upcoming referendum is at risk if this decision is not reversed
The more presence we have at the meeting, the more of an impact we will make!!!”
This, of course, is not true. But after I posted on this last week the line about Lancaster Court Apt. children vanished. Guess someone finally read up on Title 1 and realized this argument had to go.
But this isn’t the only point this group is wrong about. Let’s go through them, shall we?
1. The School Board’s Vote:
Here is what they claim: “We demand that the Red Clay Consolidated School District School Board reverse their October 15 decision to deviate from the Attendance Zone feeder pattern that had been presented by the Attendance Zone Committee and accepted by the community. This last-minute decision undermined six months of work by the Attendance Zone Committee and did not give the community an opportunity to voice concerns.”
This point has been expanded on in comments here at DL and in the comments on the petition, but is it true? Did the board do something unethical? Illegal? Shady? Something they’ve never done before?
No. The Red Clay School Board has the authority to amend committee recommendations. It’s why they’re called recommendations. In fact, had any of these concerned neighbors attended the September board meeting they would have seen the board vote to amend the Social Media policy presented by that committee. Haven’t seen a petition on this amended vote, which should exist since this group is claiming their concerns are procedural.
Leave it to Steve Newton to ask the question: “let’s assume the board had followed whatever you think is proper procedure and still voted the same–can we then assume you would have refused to sign the petition? A simple yes or no to that one would suffice.” He never received an answer to that question. A part of me wishes the board would go through these brand new, never before used standards and still vote to include Lancaster Court Apartments. I’m sure everyone would be happy… right? This is about procedure… right?
Closing down this first point about the board’s vote… the petitioners are wrong. RCCD school board has the authority to amend committee recommendations and has done so in the past. People claiming otherwise are wrong.
2. The Neighborhood Schools Act (NSA):
Again, there’s a part of me that wants this Cooke group to push this point. It’s past time to blow this up. So… Please proceed, Concerned Neighbors of Cooke Elementary School. I am so fine with this.
But enough about my dreams, let’s discuss how they don’t understand the NSA. If the NSA required the building of new schools so each neighborhood could have an attendance zone circle (or square) drawn around it then they would have a point. But the NSA does not require the building of schools therefore neatly constructed attendance zones cannot exist. There are people in the Brandywine Springs, Linden Hill, North Star, Highlands, Warner, etc. feeder that live closer to other elementary schools. This is due to where the schools are physically located and capacity (the number of students the school can hold). So this idea that the NSA must be applied to the letter of the law is nonsense. It simply can’t be done, unless we can physically pick up and move existing schools to new locations.
Citing the NSA as part of their argument against including Lancaster Court Apartments doesn’t hold water and if this AZ is changed because of the NSA school boards better buckle up. They’ll be flooded with i-petitions and maps!
3. Non-Contiguous Attendance Zones:
This point ties into the NSA. The Concerned Neighbors of Cooke also sent out a flyer in which they claim in bold type:
“All Red Clay Elementary School feeders have contiguous boundaries (sharing a common border) in accordance to the Neighborhood Schools Act, why is this not the case for Cooke?”
Had they taken two seconds to look at the attendance zone map (they actually printed on their flyer) they would have seen that Warner has had a non-contiguous attendance zone for years. So if their point is that Cooke should not have a non-contiguous attendance zone due to the Neighborhood Schools Act then I guess we’ll have to redraw Warner’s attendance zone. Right?
4. Capacity
They’ve now added that new schools should have lower capacity due to potential growth. Fine. That’s a nice idea for all schools. Too bad they don’t have a legal leg to stand on. So, dare I say it? They are wrong again.
Yep, tomorrow’s RCCD board meeting will be interesting. Many people outside the Cooke community are watching.
I’ll say it again… Please proceed, Concerned Neighbors of Cooke Elementary School.
Tags: Attendance Zones, Cooke Elementary, Featured, Neighborhood Schools Act
I won’t argue legal claims or loophole acts, I’m only in highschool (thank God not a Red Clay one) and have no interest in your game of words. But let me tell you that this is exactly how they ruined H.B. DuPont MS – bringing in a bunch of non-neighborhood, non-choice kids. Furthermore let it be stated that as Red Clay continues to do this, their rankings will continue to fall just as the HB ranking has.
Damn right, young man. If you want a good school, make sure that the only kids who are attending it are just like you.
And when you get a little older, make sure you go to a college where all the kids are just like you. (Don’t try to get into one that’s too selective, though, because there are a hell of a lot of people a lot smarter than you are.)
And when you look for a job, find one where all your coworkers will be just like you. (Good luck with that one too — because that’s not how the real world works.)
When you try HB, and live through a day without fighting in the cafeteria or weed in the bathroom, I will take your opinion seriously. And obviously the coworkers aren’t the same, in the real world we have fools like the School Board. Fools who think that sending busloads of city kids improves the school. If said kids tested in, by all means. If they choiced in, cool. But they did not set any of those requirements. I had to choice in, being only a few miles away from the feeder line. I see no legitimate reason as to why RedClay is so fervent in driving masses of kids who HAVE schools in their own area into ours.
As for your statement of saying that I should go to places “where everyone is the same” it is certainly not true. I go to the Charter School of Wilmington. We have diverse people from all ethnicities, all social backgrounds. A good school is not marked by people who are just like me. And a good school definitely shouldn’t bring in busloads of people who don’t WANT to be there from 30miles away. If they do want to, they can choice, there is nothing stopping them, just like how nothing stopped me.
But considering this is a liberal site, I suppose one can hardly expect anything but sarcasm from “adults” who wish to ruin the lives of children by further trashing the failure of a system we have today. I might as well have said “Obama is great” on a conservative site.
The distance is 4.4 miles, not 30. I thought Charter was for kids who are good at math.
JohnDoe says: I’m only in highschool (thank God not a Red Clay one)… I go to the Charter School of Wilmington.
ummm… CSW is a Red Clay high school. Are they telling something else to students?
We have diverse people from all ethnicities, all social backgrounds.
You do realize we can look up the actual enrollment numbers by ethnicity and low-income status, right?
John Doe needs to do his homework.
I see no legitimate reason as to why RedClay is so fervent in driving masses of kids who HAVE schools in their own area into ours.
So JohnDoe, tell us about city middle school and high school options for Red Clay kids. Now if you want to make a case for building and supporting those schools, I’m all ears.
Your assignment is to write a five page report on the history of desgregation in New Castle County. I bet they don’t teach THAT at CSW.
John, your comments make me sad.
First, The Charter School of Wilmington is a Red Clay School, so… you are attending a Red Clay school.
This statement of yours is interesting: “Fools who think that sending busloads of city kids improves the school. If said kids tested in, by all means. If they choiced in, cool. But they did not set any of those requirements.”
Do you understand what a public school is? A public school is open to the public – all the public. It should never require an admissions test or some Choice standard. Cooke is not a private school. It’s not a charter or a magnet school (altho charters and magnets should be held to the same admissions and expulsions policies as public schools since they are tax payer funded).
Why would you set requirements to attend a public elementary school? What would those requirements be for a Kindergartener? Second grader? Break this down for me, John. Should all children assigned to Cooke have to meet certain requirements? Or only kids like the ones at Lancaster Court Apartments?
And, in closing… what Geezer said.
Pandora: I disagree. Magnet schools often test for admission, with good reason: As Charter showed when it admitted kids without proper preparation, they won’t be able to keep up.
Most people are not troubled by CSW and its admissions policy. I realize most liberals ARE troubled by it, and of course it’s because they aren’t really interested in the best interests of each individual child. Some children will thrive in an above-grade level program, but most won’t. If we’re really interested in serving all the kids, there should be magnet programs for the best students.
But of course we’re not interested in that at all. The mandate is to eliminate the performance gap, and because the poor kids will perform better with the smartest kids mixed into the same classrooms, we have decided that the rich kids will be yoked to the poor kids.
“The good of the many is more important that the good of the few.” But from my standpoint, as a parent of some of the few, I’m not leaving my kids in those schools to help other kids. I’m interested in maximizing my child’s performance, and if I think the best place to do that is a magnet-style school like CSW (which my kids did not attend), that’s where I’m going to try to get them in.
The consistent mistake liberals make is thinking that parents care about any kids but their own. They might, but the other kids are, for most people, a distant second. The strongest urge for most parents is to maximize their own child’s chances.
If we equitably funded schools and put well-rounded programs in place in all schools then that would equal actual choice. What we have now is flight. Improve existing schools so that parents are actually choosing a specific interest and that all schools provide the necessary curriculum so that all students can access these public-private schools.
What I’m saying is that I don’t have a problem with specific interest. I do have a problem with you only be able to access that interest/certain schools depending on which public elementary school you attend. That’s what I think should change. I should not be able to tell if a child will get into CSW based on the elementary school they attend – but I can. That’s what really needs to change.
As long as parents are choicing into CSW, Cab, Conrad, etc. because they don’t like their feeder school we’ll have a problem. My call has always been for improving existing schools so the word Choice actually means something.
Do the poor kids actually perform better when mixed in with the smarter kids or do the average test scores of the school improve overall with the smarter kids’ scores factored in? Do we even know?
Geezer… here’s where you’re wrong. Take the verb you used, “yoked.” It has a negative connotation and I’m sure that’s intented. The issue is that no matter how offended you are by it, or how you’ll reject it and keep your kids away from the ball and chain of less smart kids, we are all yoked to each other. There’s no way around it. Liberals didn’t make the decision to do this. It’s just the way that it is.
If we have the resources we are responsible for our communities and our culture. Obviously a particular parent really only cares about a particular kid (theirs). So other institutions need to keep the broader picture in mind.
I suppose we could keep all the poor dumb kids separate to make sure the rich smart kids reach the absolute pinnacle of their potential. The problem is that in the long run we need to deal with the people who need more help. It’s in everyone’s interest. Your kids are eventually going to need to deal with this situation. Either education today or subsidies tomorrow.
As much as one may prefer a country of one… it isn’t a reality.
I would agree with that. The actual problem you’re talking about is the refusal of the state to put resources where parents want them.
Applications to CSW are double the number of seats. I don’t know about you, but the answer to that seems obvious: Open another school for those kids. Applications to vo-tech schools in Delaware are double the number of seats. In that case, we make the problem worse by admitting kids who have no interest in pursuing non-college courses of eduction. Indeed, vo-techs are allowed to cherry-pick their students, and the cost is far higher than the costs associated with charters. Vo-techs spend almost $5,000 per student more annually than traditional or charter schools do. Every slot taken by a student who goes on to college is a waste of $5,000 in taxpayer money.
The arguments over charters do nothing to change this basic mismanagement of resources.
“we are all yoked to each other. There’s no way around it.”
Like hell we are. You need to see how the other half lives, but you won’t, because they won’t let you through the gate.
“Obviously a particular parent really only cares about a particular kid (theirs). So other institutions need to keep the broader picture in mind.”
And that’s why more than 20% of Delaware parents send their kids to private schools.
“Applications to CSW are double the number of seats. I don’t know about you, but the answer to that seems obvious: Open another school for those kids.”
Here’s the problem – The pool of money stays the same, so if we open another charter/magnet that will result in public schools not only losing money but AP, Tag, etc. programs. Financing is based on unit count.
I have no problem with special interest programs; I have a problem with special interest schools that can only be accessed by certain socioeconomic groups. I have always thought CSW, Cab, etc. should be programs housed in public schools. This would accomplish several things:
1. It would create an enriched public school and help schools to not be overwhelmingly high poverty. Remember, high poverty schools lose enrichment programs due to need. Kids in these schools have a educational glass ceiling over them which then results in them never being able to access these “high achieving” schools.
Dorian makes the point: Do we believe an educated society is beneficial? It’s not like these children vanish once they leave school.
2. It would allow a child who may not be an excellent all around student to access specific classes (AP Bio, etc.) without having to choice into another school.
3. Most people think Delaware having 19 school districts is ridiculous and a waste of money, but… each charter is basically its own district with its own overhead. So why aren’t we pulling our resources? Why are we paying for so many administrations, buildings, supplies?
If we’re concerned about how much we spend on education (and I keep hearing we are concerned) then why aren’t we sitting down and consolidating these schools/districts including charters?
And as interesting as this discussion is (and it is interesting and important) not one of these points is a stated Cooke complaint. Okay, their point about not wanting poor kids in their school because they fear they would ruin “their” school is honest, but that’s not what they’re saying in their petition.
“And that’s why more than 20% of Delaware parents send their kids to private schools.”
I’m not sure if you grew up here, but I did and I think you are over-emphasizing this figure. While private school attendance did rise during busing, private schools were always popular in Delaware.
In fact, the running joke in the 60’s and 70’s was that you could always tell when someone got that big promotion because they immediately sent their kids to private school so they could network with their bosses through the kids. Attending private school carried the same weight as being invited to play golf with the big boys and joining a country club. In fact, having your kid in private school raised your chances of being included in that golf game and getting into that country club.
Delaware’s love affair with private schools didn’t start with busing.
“Here’s the problem – The pool of money stays the same, so if we open another charter/magnet that will result in public schools not only losing money but AP, Tag, etc. programs. Financing is based on unit count.
The pool of STATE money stays the same. Because the state pays more than half of school expenses in Delaware, local districts’ ability to sell residents on the value of education taxes has withered away. There is no reason beyond laziness that a district can’t raise enough money to provide some leeway for such circumstances.
I grew up in Montgomery County, Pa., where the property taxes are roughly five times what they are here in Delaware. Up there districts brag about how much they spend on education. Too many residents of Delaware, as in most southern states, would rather keep that money in their pockets.
I never said a word about busing. People vote with their feet not just because of busing, but because the schools ignore their preferences, regardless of the cause.
Keep something else in mind: Without the charters, private school figures would be even higher than they are now.
I also invite you to check your math. Granted, New Castle County always had the big four private schools (Friends, Tower Hill, Tatnall, Sanford) and more Catholic schools that it does now, but all the Christian academies and other white flight schools like Independence and Carousel started after busing (I’m not criticizing the education there, just pointing out the reason the schools sprang up). I don’t have any easy access to raw numbers of non-public students back then, but I think you’re over-estimating how many students those schools had compared with today. Granted, before busing, no suburban parent was motivated by racial concerns, because most suburban high schools had nearly all-white student bodies.
For comparison, I grew up in a well-to-do township, but relatively few of the highest earners sent their kids to private schools. The private school route was taken mostly by well-off parents whose kids were having learning problems in public school. Unlike Delaware, the millionaires’ kids up there went to school with the rest of us.
100% agree.
Here’s the problem with all these charters and magnets. When these schools pull from public schools the kids left behind find themselves losing courses now offered at charters/magnets. It’s a majority wins situation. Dickinson (as an example) loses AP courses because there aren’t enough AP kids – these AP kids are there, just not enough to hire an AP teacher due to allocating teaching units.
No millionaire’s kids went to Delaware public schools. DuPontville was very different than where you grew up. And I did say that busing raised enrollment in private school. My point is that NCC has always loved private schools – including Archmere, Sallies, and Ursuline. These three schools had a booming enrollment decades before busing.
That’s because they all have had good academic reputations for decades, especially Archmere and Ursuline.
Keep in mind, the graduating classes at the four private schools I listed (not the Catholic ones) are in the double digits annually. All four of them together equal the student body at a single public high school.
It’s fine that we disagree on why private school attendance is at 20% in Delaware.
The real issue is that the Cooke Community is wrong about… well… everything. If they dropped their bogus points about unethical/illegal/shady board votes, non-contiguous feeder and the NSA and said why they’re really upset… well… they can’t do that. However, if they push this issue and their stated points are shown to be wrong then they might have to actually say what this really is about. Me? I’m ready to have this discussion and stop sweeping problems under the rug.
First of all, Charter is a charter school, it is NOT completely RedClay. Secondly, HB is not 4.4 miles from the “city”, do YOUR math. Thirdly, you liberals don’t seem to get around that the reason only half of applicants make it in is because the rest are stupid (men/women are not, as a matter of a fact, intellectually equal). Fourth, stupid kids do not do better with smart kids, they beat them up and teach them how to smoke weed. They don’t mix with the rest. As for disproportional numbers in Charter, I’m an ethnic minority, we have city kids who are smart, we have poor people too, it is not our fault that less minorities are able to make it past cuts. And I realize that cooke is public. So are schools in California, you don’t see people who live in Wilmington that want to attend school there actually being able to go there. Honestly, hate on CSW as much as you want, just angry that your children couldn’t get in.
Bet they don’t teach you THAT at SchoolBoard. Now write me a 5page essay on how everyone are just as smart if they had “equal” opportunities.
Your parents must be so proud, John.
You said it yourself, so…..”3. Most people think Delaware having 19 school districts is ridiculous and a waste of money, but… each charter is basically its own district with its own overhead.” -Pandora
What point are you trying to make with my quote – of which you didn’t quote in its entirety? And you haven’t answered my question: “Why would you set requirements to attend a public elementary school? What would those requirements be for a Kindergartener? Second grader? Break this down for me, John. Should all children assigned to Cooke have to meet certain requirements? Or only kids like the ones at Lancaster Court Apartments?”
But I do want to thank you for confirming that the Concerned Neighbors of Cooke aren’t really concerned about the board’s vote, non-contiguous attendance zones and the NSA.
@john doe: both of my children attended CSW, did quite well there, and graduated last year, so I will answer your comment. (And you now have plenty of information to figure out who they are if you are half as smart as you think you are.)
First, your comment is an embarrassment to everything the students, teachers, parents, and administrators of CSW stand for. This: the reason only half of applicants make it in is because the rest are stupid (men/women are not, as a matter of a fact, intellectually equal). Fourth, stupid kids do not do better with smart kids, they beat them up and teach them how to smoke weed. They don’t mix with the rest.
… is simply idiotic and not something I would expect from a CSW student. Ask the teachers and administrators there and they will tell you that hundreds of kids who applied and did not get in would have done quite well there. You are talking about fractions of a percent of difference and adults trying–literally–to guess which students will do better in the curriculum. Getting in (your comments are a prime example) doesn’t mean you are smarter, and not getting in does not mean someone is stupid.
As for “stupid kids do not do better with smart kids” is in fact contrary to research and data that has been available for decades–my experience with CSW is that the students there are taught to respect data and evidence rather than to apply their incoming prejudices. Apparently you either missed those classes or haven’t done your Science Fair project yet.
The rest of your rant, about beatings and weed, and “stupidity” pretty much convinces me that (a) you don’t really go to CSW and that (b) you are passing on urban legends rather than personal experience. (Among other things, your writing skills and arguments are way below what would be considered acceptable even in a Phase 3 class.)
So you’re pretty much a fraud (best guess), but certainly NOT representative of the typical CSW student (you know, the kind who goes out and does mentoring in local urban elementary schools to help those “stupid” kids).
The typical CSW student generally has enough on the ball (and is enough aware of his or her good fortune in getting in) not to have to defecate on all the people who are not there. Most CSW students retain strong, solid friendships with peers at other schools, and respect them rather than denigrating them as stupid.
So my advice (which you won’t take) is that you need to quit while you are both still anonymous and behind, and hope that nobody on the faculty, or Dr. Paoli, or Mr. Anderson, figures out who you are (if in fact you do attend there) and takes notice of the black eye you are providing for one of the best high schools in the nation.
They are, I didn’t do what the city kids do. I don’t start fights in school, I don’t smoke weed, I don’t participate in illicit activities. That’s more than a lot of people that you feel “need equal opportunities” can claim. Don’t turn the school system into Chinese Style, where the dumb kids and the smart kids both get stuck in the in-between land.
And Charter’s turning down of qualified applicants is also because of RedClay crap. Favoring less qualified people who live in the area. While with public schools they are simply favoring people who don’t even live in the area. As for Paoli and Anderson, they can hardly tell me how I should “respect” the administration of RedClay for messing things up.
I notice you didn’t address squat that I raised, and that your first sentence begins with a conjunction (bad form), your second and third sentences are fragments, and your third sentence suffers from seriously awkward phrasing.
Maybe you didn’t do all the evil things you think “stupid” kids do, but you certainly weren’t paying attention in English class.
You’re a fraud and a whiner, John Doe; quit making it worse.
FYI: you need to learn the difference between assertion and argument. Show me a single fact to suggest CSW’s current admission standards have ever let in an unqualified student.
If you want to come in here and play with the adults, bring a real game.
This is becoming painfully embarrassing.
For another part, I would like to point out that many of those said Charter kids who “help” others participate in drug use, alcohol, etc(don’t even tell me I’m wrong, I’ve seen and heard at “parties”). And as for passing on urban legends. I was at HB a few years back. I can swear on whatever sacred text you want that the city kids were trash. There were multiple pregnancies, beating ups, drug scandals, heck XXXX was accused of raping someone. They DID NOT WANT to be there. What part do you not understand in THEY DON’T LIKE YOUR HELP.
@pandora
True. But it needed to be pointed out that this pinhead isn’t real, and that s/he does not speak for anybody at CSW.
Two people in our homeroom QUIT because they had D’s in classes….That’s below expectation, wouldn’t you agree?
I don’t speak for CSW, half the school is too godly to point out the truth, the other half is busy getting high and going to parties.
I would like to point out that many of those said Charter kids who “help” others participate in drug use, alcohol, etc(don’t even tell me I’m wrong, I’ve seen and heard at “parties”)
Idiot–the mentoring programs are with K-3 kids after school and are supervised by teachers.
Which you’d know if you were who you say you are. But you’re not. Go away before pandora has to block you for naming names of people never convicted of crimes.
Now listen here, young man. You may not come on here and make accusations. How dare you use a student’s real name! Especially when you comment on here anonymously. Shame on you.
I recall you asked for evidence and not urban legends.
By the way…..you realize they can drink and orgy AFTER mentoring, correct? “Idiot–the mentoring programs are with K-3 kids after school and are supervised by teachers.”
… But you didn’t supply evidence, did you?
I told you the name, go search it up, I heard that it was on the news a while back. City kid. There was only 2 out of a class of 30 that I thought WEREN’T thieves.
I understand why adults mess up the world now, I’m not even conservative and I already feel mutual dislike boiling.
John Doe, you’re not even a CSW student, so don’t feel bad.
Oh, and I don’t find you credible enough to dislike.
Really? Don’t worry, the school isn’t exactly as great as it once was, so even uncredited people like me can get in, if YOU are a former member of parent community, maybe you have heard of XXXX, former freshman social science teacher. It’s interesting that you threaten me with big administration names when they didn’t care to look into his……TA relationships earlier. Very interesting rumors circulating that the school doesn’t care to answer. To think that CSW is the top semi-public school around…
Oh, he was a fervent helper of the “downtrodden” as well, running lots of fake patriotic clubs and stuff. That’s the CSW junk that I don’t care to represent while engaging in a discourse with the likes of you.
I notice you haven’t addressed squat either, best get your pals Paoli and Anderson to hunt me down. What’s more surprising is that I’m NOT in phase 3…..but the dumber half of the charter community assumes that phase 5 actually demands skill, or so I would assume judging from your arguments..
I’m so confused. Now you’re saying CSW is a bad school? That it’s gone downhill? That CSW kids drink, smoke weed and have… orgies (gotta admit that one killed me!) But… but… but… I thought those were your reasons for wanting to keep city kids out of your school?
All kidding aside, you have a lot to learn.
Addressed what? Orgies at the after-school tutoring program that my daughter worked in for several years. Give me a break.
Your rumor-mongering about faculty and staff? There is no school in the country not beset with your kind of foulness, wherein you hide behind your anonymity and then expect your personal experiences (real or imagined) to be taken as gospel?
Your tortuous logic? You started out by applauding CSW as a great place that successfully keeps out the “stupid” and then, when your arguments fell apart, shifted your ground toward asserting that CSW is riddled with stupid kids, drug abuse, orgies, inappropriate faculty relationships, and has descended from the heights of being a great school.
All in the two days you’ve been gracing us with your comments …
Go back to reading Mein Kampf, which is apparently your playbook.
For general literature Mein Kampf is not a bad book- it’s a bestseller in fact(albeit one with many radical beliefs that I am opposed to). I never praised Charter, I merely said that it is diverse and a good school(compared to the others). It has stupid kids. Those kids are just not as stupid as most city kids. It is certainly riddled with shady shat just like all schools are. But the fact that a teacher is escorted out of the school and that a junior girl reported him shouldn’t be happening. And the xcountry team trips got cut this year (number wise) due to drug abuse by last year’s seniors, a group which your children were a part of.
And these are kids who mostly aren’t the City type, now imagine children 20times more idiotic, 30times more cruel and you have HB (and eventually all of RedClay).
a group which your children were a part of.
That’s hilarious. You obviously don’t know why that would have been impossible for several reasons.
Again: you’re a fraud. A bitter fraud, who has now descended to making up accusations against my kids, which you somehow expect to have credibility. Or are you just hurt enough at not being taken seriously that you’ve started swinging wildly?
I suspect that’s it.
But since you’re throwing Nazi stuff at me, it really shows how “parents” debate. Seriously, you guys are just as bad as Fascism with the constant barrage of ad hominum, accusing ME of slandering? I merely tell the truth about the condition of CSW, you are telling a random person that they read Hitler novels in their spare time. I guess this is legitimate coming from the liberal communists. Well played, Comrade Steve Newton.
Your children graduated last year, they are part of the senior class of 2014, they are in the SAME GROUP as pot addicts, I never accused them of doing such, although since they are legal adults they can pretty much do whatever now.
And again, you’re a commie, a bitter commie. This is how politics work apparently, trade insults and get nowhere.
Okay, sport. Stop posting rumors about people and stop talking about other people’s children. Got it?
I’m not the one spouting purity doctrines, here, son. If the reference fits, accept it.
Primarily (and if you’d read it, you’d know) I was referring to the concept of the “Big Lie.”
Oh, and also Hitler’s comments about starting false rumors and insuring anonymity.
You’re doing yourself proud, son.
But the painful fact is that you’ve slipped up on multiple occasions, and you are simply far too immature or (dare I say it?) stupid to realize it.
If you’re so proud of your arguments, and so confident of your positions and your allegations, go ahead and drop your anonymity. Think about it: in one fell swoop you could convince me you do go to CSW, and you could replace your posturing about being a truth teller with the moral conviction of somebody really standing up for what’s right.
You see (and again, logic fails you), if you really had witnessed all this–and not as a participant–you’d actually have a moral responsibility to keep reporting it to the CSW Board, or DOE, or even the newspapers. But you don’t. You just swing it out in what you believe are safely anonymous taunts.
No, you asked for evidence, I supplied it. You have doubts I go to CSW, I confirmed it. I made no accusations against his children. If you’re too idiotic to read the sentence completely, that is not my problem. I referred to his children as last years seniors, and the pot addicts as in the same group(seniors) as his children.
So you don’t even have the stones to stand up for what you write?
Or is it that you just don’t have the grammatical skills to make yourself clear?
You haven’t provided the slightest amount of evidence, John Doe, because for evidence to be accepted it has to be verifiable, and the rumor-mongering assertions of an anonymous child are–guess what?–not evidence.
But keep trying. It’ll be fun until you step over the libel line and either get banned or sued.
Yes I will use anon taunts at you, I am not dumb enough to be baited by you. The school was giving detentions to people who even talked about teacher XXXX. My lie is not big, do you know what a BIG lie is? The illuminati. I’m not spreading purity. I’m an ethnic minority. But you do realize that the Communist Manifesto includes sections on equality of the working dumb people?
By the way, John Doe, I told you they were last year’s seniors. You haven’t provided a single shred of evidence even for your attendance at CSW.
When you are ready to be an adult and put your name on your ridiculous assertions, come on back. Otherwise, you’re just another angry child who got spanked for his ridiculous, racist statements.
I have the grammar skills needed to be clear, it is a pity that you do not have the grammar skills or (dare I say it) intelligence to understand a sentence. But if you want to argue the sentence structure, by all means.
I am not dumb enough to be baited by you.
Good one.
Racist? When have I been racist? You said I am a purist/Nazi, I cannot be since the Nazi party doesn’t accept minorities last time I looked.
You supplied rumors, not evidence. And you think you’re clever by “implying” things about other people. What you haven’t done is give a reason (other than bigoted, sexist vile stereotypes) for excluding 5 – 10 year olds from Cooke, a public school.
Joe Doe, this is my final comment, since your mental masturbation should be fairly close to orgasm now, and I will let you have the last word.
You’re a coward and a liar, which is the conclusion anybody reading this entire thread would reach. You change the ground of your arguments without even noticing it. When you finally do get the courage up to make a run at my kids, you funk out when somebody calls you on it.
You may now light up this thread with the rest of your comments. Unless you happen to make a libelous comment about my kids, you won’t receive any more attention from me.
You may now have the last word in the conversation, child.
Sexist??? When have I said anything SEXIST?? When have I been anymore bigoted than you have been? And when has any of that been relevant to Cooke argument? I disagree because they don’t live near here at all. It is logistically stupid to move them.
I have not said anything about your kids. If you’re too thick to understand, sucks to be you. Why would I? Your own idiocy should not effect my opinion on your children.
OK I admit it: I have to get this one in:
(men/women are not, as a matter of a fact, intellectually equal)
There you go.
-.- men OR women not and. just as he/she he OR she. Not my fault you have bad grammar. The context means people are not equal.
The slash is most commonly used as the word substitute for “or” which indicates a choice (often mutually-exclusive).
Here you go, I will cite my source
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slash_(punctuation)#In_English_text
Let’s try your phrase another way…
Blacks/whites are not, as a matter of a fact, intellectually equal
See how that works?
No that is called being Racist. I did not say, mean, or imply that. You are bending the context of completely separate things into a racial topic- a pretty low thing to do. I am Asian and my rights could not have been achieved without black led civil rights movements. I am saying that humans are not born intellectually equal, whether male or female(since some people get offended when you use male only).
Pretty low to say that and block.
Stupid kids have to teach smart kids how to smoke weed? So, who’s stupid? And, Wikipedia is the smart kid’s source?
I admit to some amusement having read this thread and its comments. Being the rather blunt person that I am, I’ll ask directly whether the question is over whether more black students are to attend there? It seems as though this has been danced around, but no one wanted to say it explicitly.
The young Mr Doe’s comments are all over the place, so much so that I’ll not try to address them directly, other than to ask him that explicit question: does he believe that the plans to add students to his school will degrade the quality of the school because it will change the ethnic and cultural balance there?
As much as I disagree with Mr Geezer, he made the most important comment on this thread:
My respect for Mr Geezer has gone up a great deal, because he wrote something that had to be uncomfortable for a liberal, telling the truth, as a parent, even though it goes against liberal platitudes: he can be all for what he believes is best for other people’s children, but if what is better for other people’s children is worse for his, he is going to come down on the side of what is better for his children.
This, I believe, was the big problem with integration in the 1960s and 70s. The school I attended was segregated when I was in elementary school. Due to the push of the law, the school board planned a gradual integration program, four grades at a time, to try to ease into it, when the whole school was integrated at once the way that so many Southern schools in small towns were: the black school mysteriously burned to the ground just before the school year was scheduled to begin.
And so, there it was: all of the black students, in every grade, had to come to the now formerly white school. Because it was a small town, there was only one school left, and that meant that nobody was being taken out of their school, and bused to one further away. One school, and that’s it. If there were problems amongst the parents, I was unaware of them, but there really weren’t any problems among the students. Perhaps there were in the high school that I didn’t hear about, but it wasn’t too big an issue in the elementary school.
Like Mr Geezer noted, the parents weren’t being somehow put out, somehow having their children being bused around, so they didn’t have the problems with picking between what was better for their kids vis a vis other children. The problems we saw on the news were problems involving forced busing, problems caused by parents thinking that their children were being shoved around to benefit other people’s children.
@Dana: I don’t know where you grew up, but the problem in Delaware grew out of real estate red-lining. My Pa. high school had always had a minority population of 10-20%, depending on whether you counted in 10th grade or at graduation — all the black kids in the township. When I arrived at UD, my freshman classmates from similar Delaware high schools showed me yearbooks with perhaps 1 or 2 black faces out of 400+ graduates. The schools were segregated because so many of the suburbs were segregated.
Also, Lancaster Court has a lot of Hispanic residents, perhaps more than black ones.
@John Doe: “First of all, Charter is a charter school, it is NOT completely RedClay.”
It is “completely Red Clay,” as it is chartered by the Red Clay district. People can choice between school districts in any kind of school, not just Charter.
“Secondly, HB is not 4.4 miles from the “city”, do YOUR math.”
The discussion is about Cooke school, you snotty little shit, which is 4.4 miles from Lancaster Court. It’s all of 6.7 miles to HB from Lancaster Court, so you’re still way off.
BTW, I won’t take that shit-ass attitude from my own kids, I certainly won’t take it from a brain-addled little punk like you.
For the record, I was upset with the location of Cooke. It’s rather close to existing elementary schools which happen to be at capacity. If North Star wasn’t as close as it is, I might have a different view. All the same, Red Clay system is NOT at capacity.
The real problem, IMHO is the Delaware funding mechanism that drives how schools are resourced in the first instance.
Geezer: The PA system has it’s problems also, but that’s another kettle of fish
Pandora: I’ve found that racists can be very creative in finding ways to express themselves without direct reference to race. I hope the RCSB won’t have any of it either. OTOH, building two schools in the ‘burbs within two miles of each other creates its own problems.
Mr Geezer, I grew up in Mt Sterling, Kentucky. I don’t know that the the problems were real estate “red lining” as much as black families in the 1960s knew to stay in their own neighborhood; that was the reality in the South, and I’d guess that it wasn’t uncommon in the North as well. My mother was in the mortgage industry, and redlining was illegal even then.
In the three public schools I attended as I grew up, in Antioch, the school system was integrated, as far as that goes, but at the time (first and second grade) integrated means that there were Hispanic students, not blacks. The third grade, in Portland, Maine, was all white, but that was because the population of Maine was virtually all white. I can’t be sure, but I might not have even seen a black person until we moved to Kentucky.
Go Private or move to PA.
No millionaire’s kids went to Delaware public schools. DuPontville was very different than where you grew up. And I did say that busing raised enrollment in private school.
Check your facts, pandora. Amy Roth, daughter of Senator William V. Roth, went to Yorklyn Elementary. She was a year ahead of me. Daddy sent her to Wilmington Friends when busing started.
Chris Tigani graduated A.I. with me in ’88. He came to A.I. as a sophomore. I never learned why he left Archmere.
There were lots of millionaire’s children in both Red Clay and Brandywine schools. I’d be willing to bet lots of millionaire chicken farmers downstate sent their kids to public schools too, but I have no evidence to back that up.
@pandora-
FWIW, I’m agree w/ you on this issue.
I benefited from busing. Cooke kids will benefit too, and there will be virtually no detrimental effect on the uppity Hockessin kids attending Cooke.
I lived in Hockessin from age 10-21. Don’t even get me started on NCCSD/RCCSD’s stupid decisions at that time.
@Point: I have no idea what the Pa. schools are like today. I agree with you about the location, but as I said a while back, it’s right on the bus line, which might actually make it more accessible than the district’s other suburban schools.
The hard part for the Lancaster Court kids will be staying in one place long enough to benefit from the arrangement. I don’t know what the turnover rate is at those apartments, but it’s a lot tougher for a poor kid to complete five years in a single feeder pattern than it is for suburban kids.
If you haven’t read Steve’s post on this, you should.
I am a parent in the new feeder parent. I may be what most Hockessin parents want to keep out – single mother with 3 children. I have a multi-racial household as 2 of my children are Korean and one is white. I work full time, love our school, and make it a point to be as active as possible at school and with the PTA. I worry about MY kids being bussed to Cooke through the windy, narrow Hockessin back roads in the rain and snow rather than the nice straight lines they have now to get to LHE. My concern with Lancaster Court being moved to Cooke is simple math – we added 66 kids and put the school at 96% capacity. Yet Linden Hill will be at 82%, and Marbrook at 67% (or therabouts). Wouldn’t more equitable distribution of students, regardless of where they are from, benefit all our children?
For all the talk about these apartments, another MAJOR decision is being ignored: What is inclusion going to do to classrooms at all our schools? Why aren’t parents more up in arms on that – I would think integrating special needs children into our schools will have a much bigger impact than “poor kids” (which, I would say, my kids may qualify as in Hockessin since I make $1,000 too much per year to qualify for free lunch…). Just food for thought.
And before you ask, yes, I may well choice to stay where we are…but it is a decision that is weighing heavily on me. Regardless of where we go, with inclusion our children are facing the unknown even if they stay put.
I grew up in a town in NJ where you didn’t have a choice – where you live, you go. I found no detriment to always being one of the smarter kids in the class – we didn’t have magnet schools and the only private schools were religious. I managed to graduate HS and college with honors and firmly believe public education is what we make of it. If parents expect the school and teachers to do all the work, well, then THAT is the problem – not the school.
I want to be clear – I am not necessarily against inclusion. I believe all children deserve a good education if they (and their families) are willing to accept it. However, I’m just not sure either the children or teachers are best served by integrating children who need special attention into classrooms. If we can properly train our teachers and make sure those children have the resources they need, without it being excessively disruptive to the learning of other students, then I am all for it.
As the point has been made over and over, as a parent my first priority is that my children get the education they deserve. It is my job to advocate for them. I don’t have the resources some parents do to “throw money” at an issue. I am not foolish enough to think all of my children are “superstars” – I have three non-biologically related children who each have a unique learning style and excel at different things. But I do believe each child in a public school has a right to the chance to learn to the best of their capacity and be pushed beyond it if warranted.
It is unfair to assume that the Lancaster Court kids will take up extra time just because they are being bussed. It is possible they will require additional teacher resources due to unfortunate home circumstances, if they exist. But it is just as likely that instead of unfortunate home circumstances they have working parents, just like me, who care about their education and what their children to do their best. I do have one logistical question, as a working parent – what about after care that may be necessary for children? Are those parents going to be expected to drive to B/G club at Cooke to get their kids? I know that is a silly thing to think about, but as a working parent, it is very real concern that I am guessing nobody on the school board considered when they chose to bus an apartment complex quite far away…