Talking about taxes with wingnuts on Gov Elect Carney’s FB page
When Governor Elect Carney announced this “FB chat” I promised myself that I wouldn’t jump in with cranks and crackpots to shake my puny, impotent fist at the staffer playing the role of Carney on social media. Then… I went there anyway because, of course I did.
You can see my brief dialogue with the staffer playing the role of Carney on social media below, but underneath that cordial small talk, I stuck around a bit to chit chat with some wingnuts. If you have a few minutes to kill, you can read the back and forth, but the bottom line is this: Broke-ass, middle class Republicans have been instructed by the media and their political “thinkers” that the Poors are bad and the Richs are virtuous.
They are very comfortable with that as a world-view. It makes sense to them. Beyond that simple formulation, they have a few programmed rhetorical tools at their disposal, such as “If you hear ‘X’ , say ‘Y'” but no real political or economic philosophy to defend, NOR any real interest in politics or economics beyond politics ability to give them a team to identify with.
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Jason: Congressman, when you are elected Governor, will you try to keep the current administration’s policies of trying to relieve Delaware’s wealthiest corporations and individuals of their tax burdens?
Congressman John Carney : Hi Jason, my focus right now is my work in Congress. But one of the things the President addressed last night is the challenge of making sure the economy works for everyone. Both at the federal and state level, we need to focus on growing our economy from the middle out. All you need to do is look around in Delaware in the last 15 years to recognize that we’ve lost thousands of middle class jobs. Bringing back jobs that support middle class families is one of the biggest challenges we face as a state and the nation. I agree with the Pres that the way to do that is through putting technology and innovation to work to create those jobs and by reforming our tax code. Also the President highlighted the need to train and equip our workforce. As he said, that means pre-K for all, hiring great teachers, and making college affordable. All of these are priorities that will both help Delaware and the nation.
Jason: Thanks for the courtesy of a reply.. That agenda will not conflict with relieving Delaware’s wealthiest corporations and individuals of their tax burdens and shifting those burdens to the middle class, which is a relief. I don’t know how I’d react if an actual Roosevelt Democrat became Governor.
Jason: It means tax cuts for the wealthiest corporations and individuals, and increases for everyone else. It has meant that for 20 years.
The rich are not to be blamed for what’s going on in this country. Career politicians are the ones who make the laws
Maureen: Jason, Oh like 90%, is that “fair enough”? …the top 1% of earners pay the MAJORITY of taxes.. They might not feel it of course, like the middle class feels it, but the rich are the ones giving millions to charity. Even those ” evil” Koch brothers.. They are conservatives who GIVE BACK.. They give money to medical research and hospitals.. The left hates them though so they won’t mention that..
Jason: Maureen – You seem like a nice person. You have a lot of compassion for the Koch Brothers plight as well as the rest of the downtrodden 1%. I’m sure they appreciate your social media work on their behalf. Compassion aside, a cold look at the facts shows that people like you and I are stuck (or declining) while the wealthiest are somehow getting by. Our incomes are level with 2009 (adjusted for inflation) while the Koch Brothers incomes have soared 35%. Also – one correction. The majority of taxes are not individual income taxes (46%) but payroll taxes, corporate income taxes and excises taxes (54%). The 1% pays $0.00 in payroll taxes because unlike you and me, they live off the work of their fathers and grandfathers in the form of dividends and stock appreciation. I’m afraid you are wasting your time and your compassion feeling sorry for those guys.
Mike: Jason, why not ask how they’re going to stop spending so much money and lower everyone’s taxes instead of asking them to tax some people more than others. Obviously everyone should pay something although, when you pay O% because you don’t make much money, then when you do increase your income through no help from the government, they increase your tax rate to 15%, then 20, then 25, then 30, then 35, etc., etc., etc.. Then if you’re successful enough to make so much money you start getting to use some loopholes, I think you’ve paid your dues along the way and now should pay a reduced tax rate. If you’re making a million a year, why should you have to pay half of it to the government? What resources are they using more than you to justify paying so much more? Obviously the tax code needs to be scrapped for a flat tax, AND the government needs to reduce spending and live within a budget like the rest of the country has to!
Jason: Mike, “…why not ask how they’re going to stop spending so much money and lower everyone’s taxes instead of asking them to tax some people more than others….” Well, because that’s been tried in Kansas and nationally and has had pretty catastrophic results. Things that we all use and benefit from cost money. But you seem to overlook that basic fact. Services have already been cut to the bone. Our highways and bridges are falling apart and the EU, China and India are surpassing us in R&D. The question really is, do we want to be like Somalia (very low taxes), or do we want to be like the America of 1950-1975 (moderate taxes and steady growth). BTW – If by “flat tax” you mean that all people and companies pay a low % on ALL income whether is it wages or dividends, I’m for it!! Even a measly 14% tax rate would be a huge tax increase for the Koch Brothers and other 1%ers. I honestly don’t see why it is so important to you that people like Paris Hilton, (who does nothing for her millions) pay very low taxes relative to wealthy people in other industrialized countries.
Austin: Jason, IT has been tried in Kansas? We could deport all the illegals and save tons of money right there. We could require norplant for those on public assistance as they dont breed more kids they cant feed. You are unmarried, on the dole and get pregnant you are stealing ( unless raped, which is a really low amount of pregnancies) you are stealing. It often leads to crime. Now why does the democrat party not support this? Tax savings and lower crime. Democrats will lose votes amongst those who would be effected, but if its for the good of the country it seems alright to me. Welfare is not a right, so i dont want to hear about their rights to choose not to be on norplant. They can chose not to be on it and not get their checks. You can choose not to get a license, but you cant drive if you dont.
Dave: Lots of words above. Too many. CorporTions hire people. Corporations with manufacturing jobs have lefft Delaware left and right. Figure out why and make the changes.
Jason: Austin, Why so angry about the peanuts wasted on welfare to poor people and not concerned about the billions blown on corporate welfare? What billions? Well.. Just for a start, how about the tax breaks given to companies mentioned by Dave that shift profits to offshore holding companies? Honest question. I’m just curious.
If it’s any consolation, this article is almost as enjoyable to read as the Ted Cruz birther articles:
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/265647-upset-gop-donors-have-we-wasted-our-money
Two observations
1. The Jason in this FB chat is not the same Jason who comments here. It can’t be because the FB Jason was polite and reasonable even in the face of ignorance from those who hardly have a pot to pee in but stand in defense of the 1%. The DL Jason would have jumped down their throats after about 30 seconds. What happened to the real Jason?
2. I wonder if their attitudes regarding the 1% is a function of being a little better than they have nots which they need to perpetuate in order to feel good about their lot in life? They can’t do anything about 1% but at least they aren’t on the lowest rung of the ladder.
These people love to punch down, and Dave is correct – it is about them feeling good about their plight.
And yeah, that’s our Jason!
“What happened to the real Jason?”
I was experimenting with civility. Results: hated it.
Pandora is right. It is all about punching down with these dolts. When Karl Marx predicted a natural movement toward class consciousness, he never anticipated the relative material wealth of the American system, or the maliciousness of something like Fox News.
A while ago, over at Kilroy’s, I flipped the tables on a group of parents punching down on high poverty families. These parents were full of judgement for those with less than them – they were also full of praise for their awesomeness as parents and how they work to give their children the best education, life, etc.. I merely asked, if that were true then their children were attending schools like Tower Hill, right? And that they made sure their kids traveled abroad in the summer, right? And that they worked as many jobs as necessary to make this happen, right?
BOOM! Suddenly I didn’t understand their plight or their financial restrictions. How they could never make that sort of money. What I was suggesting was unreasonable given their circumstances. Not one of them made the connection I spelled out for them. Can you believe it???
It’s almost worth getting a Facebook account.
I couldn’t live without Facebook
It’s the same type people who turned Jews into the Nazis
I was experimenting with civility. Results: hated it.
I’d love to have a drink or many with Facebook Jason. He wasn’t civil at all. He was a snarky prick. Snark, sarcasm & cynicism are hilarious, especially when the moron on the receiving end doesn’t get it.
I couldn’t very well leave them completely off the hook for their nonsense.