Monday Open Thread [2.22.16]
MASSACHUSETTS—Emerson–Trump 50, Rubio 16, Cruz 10, Kasich 13, Carson 2
MASSACHUSETTS—Emerson–Clinton 46, Sanders 46
Nate Silver says Trump is now favored to win the nomination: “A reasonable person might adjudicate the case as follows: Yes, if the Republican nomination becomes a two-man race between Trump and Rubio, it could be pretty close. But that might not happen, or it at least might not happen for a while, not until Trump is off to a pretty big head start in delegates. What happens in a three-way race between Trump, Rubio and Cruz is a little murky. This reasonable person would concede that Rubio had a chance. But who’s the favorite? Trump!”
“Betting markets, weighing all of this information, see the Republican race thusly: Trump at about 50 percent to win the nomination, Rubio at 40 percent, and the rest of the field at 10 percent. I might quibble here and there, but that seems like basically a sound assessment.”
Larry Sabato says Rubio needs to push Kasich out next: “Now that Bush is out, Rubio might want to consider a daring gambit — openly offering Kasich the vice presidential slot in exchange for the Ohio governor’s support. (Ronald Reagan did something similar much later in his 1976 campaign, right before the Republican convention, and while it didn’t work out, Reagan shook up conventional wisdom. It is a tactic worth considering.)”
“If Rubio can somehow push Kasich out after Bush’s exit, it seems reasonable to think that the lion’s share of their supporters would go to him, and in a three-way race, that could be enough for Rubio to start getting the victories he has failed to secure so far.”
Much later, I finally grimly sat down to take a look at Mein Kampf. It was so sickening that I couldn’t complete it. What struck me, though, is how Hitler had laid out his ideas and plans so clearly. I’d been told so many times that people didn’t know what he was going to do (or even what he was doing), but in the book it was all spelled out in detail.
I mention this because my inclination is to kind of discount it when Donald Trump talks about his desire to torture and massacre Muslims, and to desecrate their religion. I’ve been around Trump since I was a pre-teen growing up in the shadow of the Big Apple. I’ve never taken him seriously about anything. And I’ve never seen him as any kind of threat. For most of the time I’ve been watching him, he hasn’t even been a hateful person.
So, it’s hard for me to adjust to the things he’s saying now. It seems like an act, and almost like a prank. But I haven’t forgotten how people misjudged another guy who said he wanted to massacre a religious minority. That’s why I think we ought to err on the side of caution and take him at his word.
Matt Bai wonders if Christie will be to blame if Trump wins: “When Mitt Romney lost his presidential bid in 2012, a lot of senior Republicans blamed Chris Christie for cementing his defeat… In truth, it was pretty weak to blame Christie, given the litany of Romney’s shortcomings, not to mention the fact that Christie had a decimated state to govern and shouldn’t have been thinking about electoral votes at that moment anyway.”
“But if the field of Republican hopefuls not named Donald Trump remains overcrowded and hopelessly muddled after this weekend, and if Trump himself cruises to another victory in South Carolina and ends up winning the nomination, a lot of those same Republican leaders may look back and conclude that it was Christie who cost them a victory yet again. And this time, they may actually be right.”
Now that it appears Hillary is positioned to win the Democratic nomination, any possible opening for Michael Bloomberg to run as a social liberal (but not socialist) businessman appears to be closing. Politico: “The multi-billionaire media mogul has held out the possibility of an independent candidacy as a tonic for centrists fearful of a Trump presidency. But even as Trump bolstered his chances for the Republican nomination with a solid win in South Carolina, Bloomberg’s trial balloon has yet to gain much altitude, even among those most likely to favor his candidacy.”
“Only if the self-avowed Democratic socialist Bernie Sanders were to cop the Democratic nomination and square off against reality-TV star Trump could these would-be Bloomberg supporters imagine him making the race — and even then, there were doubts.”
Jeff Greenfield says history suggests Trump can’t be stopped: “There are any number of primary campaigns that saw a significant shift of fortunes, but they provide cold comfort for the anti-Trumpeteers. Why? Because 1) they happened a relatively long time ago, 2) they all happened in two-candidate races and 3) none of them resulted in a victory for the come-from behind candidate.”
This is bad news for Jason and myself, since we both went all in on Ted Cruz winning the nomination. On the election prediction betting markets, he has collapsed to Kasich/Bush levels of support, in the 2% range, which Trump and Rubio are ahead 50% and 46% respectively. Cruz really had to win South Carolina to set himself up for the SEC Primary on Super Tuesday. Amy Walter agrees, Cruz is in trouble:
“From the beginning, Cruz’s strategy was based on putting together a strong showing among conservative and evangelical voters that would help muscle him through South Carolina and the SEC primary states. Yet in South Carolina, a state where 73 percent of the electorate defined themselves as evangelical, and where Cruz attacked Trump for his past support of abortion rights, Cruz lost the evangelical vote to Trump by six points!”
“If Cruz can’t win in South Carolina, a state tailor-made for a conservative, evangelical candidate, what makes him think that he can win in similar-looking southern states that vote on March 1? And, as I wrote earlier this week, losing out on South Carolina’s 50 delegates puts a major – perhaps insurmountable – roadblock in his path to winning the delegate race.”
My hope is that Trump and Rubio compete to a stalemate, and that we have a brokered convention where Cruz emerges as the compromise candidate somehow.
Meanwhile, the New York Times reports that Trump and Cruz have the deepest pockets: “A seven-month, $220 million surge of spending on behalf of mainstream Republican candidates has yielded a primary battle dominated by Donald Trump and Senator Ted Cruz of Texas, two candidates reviled by most of the party’s leading donors.”
“Now, as they approach a pivotal and expensive stage of the campaign, the two insurgent candidates — who have won the first three contests — appear to be in the best position financially to compete in the twelve states that will vote on ‘Super Tuesday,’ according to reports filed with the Federal Election Commission on Saturday.”
Jeffrey Toobin on the Justice that always looked backward: “Antonin Scalia, who died this month, after nearly three decades on the Supreme Court, devoted his professional life to making the United States a less fair, less tolerant, and less admirable democracy. Fortunately, he mostly failed. Belligerent with his colleagues, dismissive of his critics, nostalgic for a world where outsiders knew their place and stayed there, Scalia represents a perfect model for everything that President Obama should avoid in a successor.”
“The great Justices of the Supreme Court have always looked forward; their words both anticipated and helped shape the nation that the United States was becoming. Chief Justice John Marshall read the new Constitution to allow for a vibrant and progressive federal government. Louis Brandeis understood the need for that government to regulate an industrializing economy. Earl Warren saw that segregation was poison in the modern world. Scalia, in contrast, looked backward.”
Jeff Stein at Vox says the lower turnout (relatively speaking compared to 2008) in the Nevada Caucus and in the primaries and caucuses to date is bad sign for Bernie Sanders’ political revolution.
As Vox’s Ezra Klein has written, Sanders thinks “the core failure” of Obama’s presidency is its failure to convert voter enthusiasm in 2008 into a durable, mobilized organizing force beyond the election. Sanders vows to rectify this mistake by maintaining the energy from the campaign for subsequent fights against the corporate interests and in congressional and state elections.
The relatively low voter turnout in the Democratic primary so far makes this more sweeping plan seem laughably implausible. Three states have voted, we’ve had countless debates and town halls, and there’s been wall-to-wall media coverage for weeks. Sanders has drawn close to Clinton in the polls, and there are real stakes in a closely divided race.
And yet … we have little evidence that Sanders has actually activated a new force in electoral politics. If he can’t match the excitement generated by Obama on the campaign trail, how can he promise to exceed it once in office?
Slate’s Jamelle Bouie wonders if Clinton is once again inevitable:
The Clinton campaign believes that Sanders’ strength and enthusiasm is illusory; that it reflects the peculiar demographics of Iowa and New Hampshire — rural states with few minorities — more than any pro-Bernie tide in the Democratic Party. Nevada, in other words, was a test. If Clinton lost, then it presaged a tighter race in South Carolina and beyond, and possibly one that ended with a Sanders nomination. Now, instead, we have a race that essentially looks like it did in the beginning of the year. Clinton has the advantage, and barring a catastrophic decline with black voters, she’ll march steadily to the nomination. […]
Sanders is still a formidable candidate. He will win additional contests and demonstrate the extent to which he — or at least, his ideology — is the future of the Democratic Party. To that point, Sanders continues to excel with young voters, including non-whites. In exit polls, Sanders won 68 percent of non-white voters under 45. Clinton will continue to have to respond to Sanders’ challenge and reach out to these supporters. Despite a clearer path to the nomination, she cannot be complacent. In all likelihood, this primary season will end with a Clinton who has moved even further to the left, adopting some of Sanders’ approach and even his rhetoric.
If that is the end result of a Clinton v. Sanders primary, I’d say, to most everyone except the Sanders diehards or anti-Hillary forces, that that is a successful result. A more liberal, more progressive, more campaign tested Hillary is a better nominee than a complacent inevitable coronated Hillary running to the middle. The latter is something most of us feared as approached 2016, that the lack of a credible primary would hurt Hillary. Well, that fear has been avoided.
Peter Dreier at The American Prospect puts the 2016 stakes in clear perspective: “If the Democrats win the Senate and a Democratic president gets to replace Scalia and appoint three other justices, they will cement a liberal majority for at least two or three decades. If either Clinton or Sanders wins the White House, Justices Ginsburg (who will be 83 next year) and Stephen Breyer (78) might retire to allow the president to pick their younger successors. Anthony Kennedy, a conservative who sometimes votes with the court liberals, will be 80 in 2017. If he retires and a Democrat selects his replacement, the court could find itself with a 6-3 liberal majority, with only Chief Justice John Roberts (currently 61 years old) and Justices Clarence Thomas (67) and Samuel Alito (65) remaining to carry the conservative torch. (Two other liberals–61-year-old Sonia Sotomayor and 55-year-old Elena Kagan, both Obama appointees–could remain on the court for another two decades…Even with Roberts remaining as chief justice, a court with a 6-3 liberal majority could have more influence in moving the country in a progressive direction than at any time since Chief Justice Earl Warren led the court between 1953 and 1969.”
Melvin I. Urofsky at Los Angeles Times on Antonin Scalia and the judgment of history:
Scalia famously argued that only by reading the Constitution in the light of the Framers’ original intent can judges arrive at an impartial and objective understanding of the document. He was a caustic critic of activist courts — especially if they were liberal — but originalism itself gives conservative judges a fig leaf to cover their activism. Close observers of the court have noted that whenever Scalia invoked an originalist interpretation of the Constitution, it usually favored his biases. In the 2010 Citizens United case — which allows companies to make large campaign contributions from their corporate treasuries — Scalia wrote a concurrence in which he claimed the Framers believed in free speech rights for corporations. It astounded and dumbfounded historians who know that corporations barely existed in 18th century America.
Originalism has long been under attack, and not just by its political opponents. How is it possible to discern absolutely the Framers’ intent? A book published last fall revealed that James Madison’s notes on the Constitutional Convention, long considered a documentary source on the debates of the Framers, was edited later by Madison to emphasize his and Thomas Jefferson’s states’ rights view of government rather than that of their archenemy, Alexander Hamilton, who believed in a strong central government. Moreover, there are many parts of the Constitution for which there is no contemporary source of meaning. The basis for impeachment, for example, is “high crimes and misdemeanors,” for which no definition is to be found in the Federalist Papers or elsewhere.
Scalia will without doubt be remembered as one of the best writers on the court. Even those who disagree with his opinions read them just for the fun of it. But he often went too far, especially when in dissent, and his tirades insulted more moderate conservatives such as Sandra Day O’Connor and Anthony Kennedy. The justices shrugged it off with a “well, that’s just Nino.” In recent years, observers have noted that a nastiness is showing up in lower federal courts. A number of opinions have attacked opposing jurists not just on jurisprudental grounds, but on a personal basis as well. “If Scalia can do it,” the writers seem to think, “then so can we.”
The SC results show that South Carolinian’s who call themselves “christian” are either lying – or follow an angry, violent, psychotic Jesus I’ve never heard of before.
“A more liberal, more progressive, more campaign tested Hillary is a better nominee than a complacent inevitable coronated Hillary running to the middle.”
Really, I love to read your analysis making the case that progressivity wins* the day in the general, considering the likely voters this time around.
*Not that I think it matters anymore since I am convinced Trump wins the general regardless of where Clinton positions herself.
When you look at policy polling, progressive issues are popular among the public, including Rs and Is on many issues. Gay rights, reproductive rights, minimum wage, Climate Change, paid medical/family leave, affordable college and childcare, etc. actually become more popular when positioned against the GOP’s hateful messages. Some are trickier, like immigration, but the GOP’s racist comments about Mexicans costs them a voting block they need.
I’m not convinced Trump will win the general – which is a vastly different animal than the primaries. Just like other GOP candidates, he won’t be allowed to run to the center and there’s no getting elected without the R base. They will stay home, just like they did for McCain and Romney.
And if you don’t think the press is salivating to go after him in the general you’re kidding yourself. He will be Palined. (h/t Jason330) He simply can’t run in the general the way he’s running in the primary. Oh, the press loves him now because he generates ratings, taking him out will generate ratings, too. It will be explosive, and all Trump’s whining won’t work the way it’s working now.
So yeah, the press has given him a huge pass (and the other R candidates are useless and their not dealing with Trump demonstrates how unfit they are for office), but that’s only because covering him losing his sh*t in the general (and he will – spectacularly) = spectacular ratings.
Pandora, Im not convinced he wont run to the center. Trump is the kind of person who will use people, then thrown them away as soon as they are no longer useful to him. He will do that with his base and try to tack to the center. It isnt like those morons wont vote for him… (when i say morons, i mean “registered republicans”) The main thing will be ..how many other people will be fooled/ how badly will the press fail at pointing out what he will try to do. For the latter, i say ‘spectacularly” for the former, I say “this country elected George W Bush in 2004”. so, yeah. good luck sleeping until the election.
Dave is adhering to a “Voters are bunch of moronic goofballs” theory. And why not? As Ben points out – there is plenty of data around to support that theory.
“so, yeah. good luck sleeping until the election” Huh?
Trump has fatal flaws, and in the general he’ll actually have to answer policy questions. I do not see Dems allowing Trump to get away with his non-answers like the Republicans did. Trump benefited from a crowded primary field – especially one that never went after him. And there’s nothing the press likes more than blood in the water, especially the blood of a man who just turned his mob towards the press.
If you wanna bet on one thing, bet on this: Trump can go after black and brown people, women, gays, Muslims, etc., but the press never tolerates someone going after them.
I’d caution against predicting what the press is going to do. In our stupid media environment, Trump could get the kid gloves treatment, as the NYT and others attempt to prove that they aren’t biased.
It’s still all about winning the election for some people. A more liberal candidate Hillary is not going to translate to a more liberal President Hillary.
And so it begins. Expect a ton of articles like this.
If you thought President Obama spurred gun sales, wait until we have President Trump.
Pandora, I’m sorry, but I disagree on Trump’s “fatal flaws”. Conventional wisdom is meaningless in regard to him, or how people react to him. He has done dozens of things that “should” have ended his campaign.
Even going after the press… a regular part of his stump speech now is pointing out the press box (the people who eh depends on to cover his campaign) and gets the crowd to boo them.
ah, like the article you just shared. I do not think it will hurt him. Fox will continue to fawn over him, CNN will continue to suck, MSNBC will continue to be ignored.
“A more liberal candidate Hillary is not going to translate to a more liberal President Hillary.”
^ times a thousand. So, making her move left during the primary accomplished what?
It raises the profile of lower-ticket progressives and helps push other races further to the left. DD has it. If the Democratic party is taken over by progressives, she will act accordingly.
But it won’t be taken over by progressives, so never mind.
Meanwhile, the GOP is really turning away from Trump because he won’t build the party. Heh.
it wont, geezer. One day, Tom Gordon will be our Senator or Governor all thanks to Democratic complacency.
No, Gordon is finished. He has decided to be the Governor of New Castle County, which is why the county has started farmland preservation, economic development — all the departments that specialize in giving away money to cronies.
Which is why the Democratic Party will never be taken over by progressives. If you recall your history, it was Republicans, not Democrats, who busted the trusts.
“When you look at policy polling, progressive issues are popular among the public, including Rs and Is on many issues. Gay rights, reproductive rights, minimum wage, Climate Change, paid medical/family leave, affordable college and childcare, etc.”
And that’s exactly why we have a progressive White House, Congress, and SCOTUS….Oh um…wait
Look Pandora, except for folks like for Duck Dynasty aficionados people will always try to say the right thing and in general, they will even attempt to do the right thing. But one thing they won’t do is sacrifice themselves, their livelihood, and their quality of life, to do the right thing.
A small example of what Trump is doing that speaks to the people is political correctness. Is there anyone who isn’t sick and tired of being bombarded with political correctness? Trump has no class and says whatever he wants and suffers no repercussions. He doesn’t just speak to them, he speaks for them. He says what they cannot say or are afraid to say. Any you can characterize that segment of America how you wish, but there are an awful lot of them and they run the spectrum of political thought from the far left to the far right.
The problem people are having is analyzing Trump against the same criteria that politicians and candidates are always being measured by. How much money have they raised. What demographic do they represent. Are they left, right, middle, progressive, yadda, yadda. Trump has transcended all that. He is one of the most liberal Republicans to ever run for office and they voting for him like mad. What gives?
You think everything will get back to normal during the general. The ship will right itself. The course will be corrected. We’ll have these deep policy debates. Trump will be forced to articulate his actual policies (he has none, except be loud, proud, and make money).
I can’t wait to see what you have to say when the general rolls along and he is the same Donald Trump saying the same things and the people loving it. And oh by the way, if he does decide to get some policies between now and then, they will be so close to Clinton’s that they will be indistinguishable and what will the difference be? Well, people like Trump. At least he’s entertaining. You do the math.
“It raises the profile of lower-ticket progressives”
Really? So what? Will people vote for lower ticket progressives? Is there some historical basis that you can share?
So your contention is that national office candidate to move left, who subsequently loses will enhance the chances of lower ticket progressives?
Dave is mostly right here, but there are things that give me hope that people will turn out to vote against Trump. (And yes, I have said time and again that people don;t turn out to vote “against”, but this is a unique case.
1) A very large turnout number helps the Democrats. Overall turnout will be huge. Nobody will be on the sidelines this time.
2) Trump will appear to be the candidate favored by morons and idiots. He will soften a bit, however, Trump will lose among Republican college graduates. I didn’t think so, but I’ve spoken to some and they (rightly) view Trump as a dangerous clown.
Agreed, Jason. Not to mention the SUPREME COURT – which up until this election was a reason, now it’s one of the biggest reasons. (Which it should have always been.)
I also can’t help but remind everyone that this country (by margins not seen since Eisenhower, and FDR for a Dem) elected Obama (a Kenyan socialist) twice – and while the language wasn’t as blatant it existed. I’ll also point out that people tired of political correctness have one thing in common – not being able to get their humor on at another groups expense. If you think there’s enough of those sorts then I’ll point out that they couldn’t win the last two elections.
Personally, I have way more faith in the American people. If Mississippi votes down Personhood then that tells me something. Unless they just did that to say the right thing.
None of this means I don’t take Trump seriously. I do. Anything can happen in the general election. That said, most people aren’t really paying much attention yet.
I have faith in America too. They won’t elect the biggest liar in the race – Hillary Clinton.
A politician lies – what a revelation! Was it an epiphany or did it involve years of study and observation your part?
If Clinton runs against Trump, she won’t be the biggest liar in the race. She claimed to be broke, and he claims to be a billionaire. He’s off by more than she is.
“A politician lies – what a revelation! Was it an epiphany or did it involve years of study and observation your part?”
Whenever Mr. Kline looks around, you’ll observe, he sees shit. That’s because his head is….
@G “She claimed to be broke,…”
Compared to her current net worth… Yea. She was broke.
The old “she lies” trope is a GOP propaganda canard, and little more. She should take them on…
No, it’s not a canard. She is a skilled and practiced prevaricator. But she can’t hold a candle to Trump, Cruz or Rubio.