Carney and Markell
I have been, and continue to be, an undecided voter on the Markell/Carney decision. It may at times seem that I am an unabashed Carney supporter, but that is only due to the contrast with others in the blogosphere. I have a number of friends in both campaigns. I have been trying hard to give counter arguments to the Markell supporters, but alas, I am not particularly good at the debunking thing.
Delawonk, a Carney supporter, is new on the scene here. He has in the past been associated with Carney’s campaign, but I do not know his involvement now. He has provided the first inkling of a countervailing force to the Jack-backers.
Jason, Mike Matthews, Dominique and many others are convinced that Jack is their man. Often going to the point of bashing Carney as a stooge and incompetent. Carney people often point to Markell as being of the Greenville crowd. Perhaps both sides are being unfair.
I have spoken to someone with a close relationship to Carney about the dynamic that they are in danger of being swept up in. It is the Clinton/Obama dynamic. One side promotes their experience in getting things done, the other as the agent of change. I have literally been warning them of the danger of this for months. Carney has worked hard to curry favor with some “progressives” in the state, but has had little to show for it. He has ended up being the Hillary Clinton of this race.
The one thing that he had going for him is that he could parlay his connections and savvy into getting BWW and Delmarva to agree to terms. This is an excellent example of progressive goals being met with hard-nosed back room politics. And guess what? The deal wouldn’t have gotten done without it.
Then a week later, Carney blew that political capital on the awful eminent domain issue. I plan on doing some stories on E.D. in the next few weeks (hint, I’ve got a new mechanic in Wilmington), but the right stand seems to be in support of property rights. The fact that he was standing next to Tom Gordon’s right hand man when we talked about it didn’t help things either.
I am saddened by the tone that this election has taken. It is pitting the progressive Dems against the traditional base. I suppose that is how it was always going to be, but we have to watch where we go with it. Bashing the unions and the city of Wilmington (Carney’s Strongholds) isn’t going to get us anywhere but hurt. These are constituencies that we need to work with and work toward common goals. John Kowalko, God bless him, is a perfect example. He is a perfect bridge from unions to progressives.
If I took anything out of the Obama/Clinton bruhaha, it is that we don’t need to burn those bridges. If we had respectfully disagreed with each others’ stands, we might be looking at Obama (or Hillary) up by 15% across the board. So take a deep breath, relax. Either way, we are going to get a better Governor than what we have had for 8 years. And that Governor will be a Democrat.
Tags: Delaware, Jack Markell, John Carney, kowalko
Nice post, LG. I think you’ve also hit upon my indecision. As a city resident I know John Carney (disclaimer: he lives up the street from me). I honestly hadn’t heard much about Markell until I stumbled across DL – which I think is one of your points when it comes to the city.
I’m still undecided. I truly like both of them. I think either one would make a great Governor.
Golly. If you look at my comment on Pandora’s undecided post you can take me off the “bashing Carney as a stooge and incompetent” list.
and BTW – I think it is telling that these Carnies are all about calling me a schmuck, but not one of them stepped up on Pandora’s post and gave an argument in favor of Minner’s Lt Gov.
Because they can’t. There’s only one reason to vote for Carney: He closed the BWW deal. Never mind that there’s no some questions surrounding even that, but Carney’s supporters have always played the “It’s his turn” meme to the hilt. Markell’s supporters are energized to the hilt and will be voting for him because they like him. People supporting Carney will be voting for him because they don’t want to muck up the system.
LG: Very good post. I disagree on only one point — John Carney did not get the BWW deal done, Tony DeLuca did. This is the point I was arguing
Friday with a caller named Mark, who might be the same person as Delawonk. Carney, for all his “connections,” had no power because he controlled no votes. DeLuca did. This is just their ploy to give Carney a strong point to run on.
This doesn’t mean Carney wouldn’t do a good job. Indeed, two friends and former colleagues, both smarter than me and just as dedicated to good government, have told me for a couple of years now that fears of a third Minner term are misplaced, that John is his own man and won’t back down when he thinks his principles would be compromised.
My attacks on unions are made for reasons of my own. If you want to understand, take a look at the national superdelegate list and count the union leaders. Unions represent barely more than 1 of every 10 workers, but claim to represent us all in the political process. They don’t, and I’m tired of rewarding them as if they do. This is especially crucial here in Delaware, where the unions are run by people so timid they think they must agree with their employers if they want to prosper. They have an unhealthy stranglehold on the Democratic Party, which as of November will be the only party in the state.
Excellent post. A point I made in one of my recent posts on Adgate is that no matter the outcome of this primary, like the outcome of the Clinton/Obama race, I will and I hope others will support the winner, for either Democrat is indeed a hundred times better than Lee or Copeland or Protack.
This primary battle is about control of the party, much like the Clinton/Obama battle was. The old establishment with their top down party structure and adherence to special interests like developers and credit card companies, or a new progressive party with grassroots support.
You do make a great point about unions and not burning our bridges with them. I love unions and the work they do, even if they can become blinded to all but their interests sometimes.
Like Kowalko, we need all aspects of the Democratic coalition in order to truly build a long lasting progressive coalition.
Jason, you correct. I’m still waiting for the Carney argument. Please tell me why I should vote for Carney. I think I understand the Markell supporters, and I can relate – being an Obama supporter. However, I am still undecided. Make your case.
I predict more crickets…
Maybe so… but the invitation has been offered. Twice!
The funniest part is that Carney has had — oh, how many? Fifty? Sixty? — “different” supporters post comments here in the past few weeks. With such a huge base of support, isn’t it amazing that nobody has stepped forward with that pro-Carney argument?
I think what’s most amazing is that Markell supporters are willing to tag their names to their comments. By and large, the Carney supporters seem to do fine with the ridiculous pseudonyms.
Great post, LG. Frankly, I find the “closed BWW” narrative suspect for several reasons (one of them provided by Al).
I’ve been to a few of the debates and have no doubt that either guy is better than Lee or Protack. But in a year when traditional Dem machine politics is very suspect (and getting its ass handed to it pretty frequently), I have to wonder about the wisdom of a party that has decided to double down on machine tactics and dodges. DD already notes that this primary is about the control of the party — but if Delaware becomes a one party state after November, I’d bet alot of money that would not last very long. Old school Dem politics is not a strategy for long term electoral success.
I don’t think that BWW would have been closed if Carney didn’t work with DeLuca to make it so. I didn’t see Markell applying pressure to DeLuca, did you? Have we seen any evidence that Markell did anything other than provide lip service? Honestly, BWW was Carney’s to lose.
The Markell team would be crowing about the ineffectiveness of Carney if the deal didn’t get done. What I don’t see is why the Markell camp cannot just cede the point and move on. Certainly Markell has accomplishments and ideas that he would like to expound on. All I have seen is that he’s a different kind of Democrat. I’m not entirely convinced of that.
LG: You’ve got the causality backwards. The deal started moving when DeLuca changed his mind — and that wasn’t at the prodding of John Carney. You have switched who was in the driver’s seat.
The key player was DeLuca, not Carney. That’s why the Markell people won’t drop it, nor should they. Elect Carney and you’ll enable DeLuca, the Senate’s worst tin-horn dictator since Tom Sharp, to run the state for the next eight years — at least, that’s my fear, and I’ve seen nothing to dispel that fear.
What I don’t see is why the Markell camp cannot just cede the point and move on.
LOL!
It is kinda hard when the state party is telling us to carry Carney down French St. in a sedan chair.
Al, and what do you think changed DeLuca’s mind? Perhaps Markell? I don’t think so. Would DeLuca have gotten off the dime if Carney hadn’t worked the jobs angle? How about the education angle?
I’ll try to delve into the reasons, but if you have a theory, that would be a great start.
J, no, it isn’t hard to say, “Thanks for your help on getting through a deal that 90% of Delawareans wanted. But we were outspoken about it long before and we are right on ED…” etc. It is just much easier to cry foul when the party spends some money on Carney.
I don’t think that BWW would have been closed if Carney didn’t work with DeLuca to make it so. I didn’t see Markell applying pressure to DeLuca, did you?
Frankly, I am not sure how I am supposed to know if either Carney or Markell provided pressure or dealmaking to close this deal. I see lots of claims on Carney’s part, but the fingerprints you can see here are DeLuca’s.
In many ways this is the consequence of very closed government — not only are the workings of what should have been a very public debate done behind closed doors, but even the divvying up of the credit seemed to have been done that way too.
“Al, and what do you think changed DeLuca’s mind?”
Good question. My guess is the realization that it was better to get 150 jobs than none at all. The initial preference of the entire administration, and therefore the DeLuca-led Senate, was for the 550 jobs that would have been generated by another coal plant at Indian River.
Is there any evidence that Carney was influential in talking DeLuca into anything? To tell you the truth, one reason I suspect Carney wasn’t the one who hatched this strategy is that he doesn’t seem duplicitous enough. It smacks of the sort of scheme dreamed up by people like DeLuca, second-rate minds who think themselves clever.
I still think this is somehow going to be linked to McDowell’s SEU, which has been amended to allow money to go to for-profit entities — like, say, Delmarva. Because what’s still unknown is why Pepco was convinced not to sue. I’m guessing it’s because they will form a subsidiary that will just happen to be awarded big bucks from the SEU, effectively giving them back the money that carbon credits will cost.
I have zero evidence for this; it’s just speculation. But I think it’s a disgrace that of all the many people who worked to get that deal done, only John Carney has failed to spread the credit around.
“people often point to Markell as being of the Greenville crowd” only people who are so moronic they can’t remember he, and his wife, were raised in Newark and graduated from NHS.
Markell should not be punished for going off and getting a real job making real money while Carney went to the public trough years ago and hasn’t raised his head to date.
Get a grip people.
This is an excellent post, Geek.
I happen to like them both. I think John Carney is very sincere and he would be a good governor – certainly better than Lee. I just think Jack has better ideas. I also think the DE Dem party needs a shake-up and I don’t think Carney will do anything to change the current leadership.
As far as the Greenville nonsense, it couldn’t be further from the truth. Anyone who feels that way should attend one of Jack’s Meet & Greet events. Jack and Carla are extremely down-to-earth. Yes, Jack did very well for himself financially – since when is that a sin? Neither of them is a trust-fund baby who’s had things handed to them. They earned what they have honestly and they should be commended for their success.
Not to snark or anything–no, hell, it’s a snark:
“Markell should not be punished for going off and getting a real job making real money while Carney went to the public trough years ago and hasn’t raised his head to date.”
How come we don’t ever apply the opposite reading of this to Senator Obama, who knew when he took that community organizing job that he was paying his due for a future political career? How come he gets to say, “I could have taken some high-paying job, but….” and we have the reverse take on Carney-Markell?
I thought Carney had led a life of dedicated public service.
Carney, public service or on the State’s dole! Carney spent years priming the democratic party pump….now he is ready to collect?
Markell, actually went to work creating jobs, and is obviously the brighter bulb.
“Carney, public service or on the State’s dole! …
Markell, actually went to work creating jobs, and is obviously the brighter bulb.”
The debasement of public discourse continues. Carney eschewed a big-money career for public service. So an ersatz Democrat trashes him for it.