Yawn…Another Day, Another Armed Man Outside A Townhall Meeting
Things are getting crazy out there. For the third time in a week an armed citizen has been spotted outside a meeting where President Obama is going to speak on health care.
A man is carrying an assault rifle and a pistol outside the VFW Convention in Phoenix where President Obama will speak later today, a local newspaper reports. (Click through for a photo.)
Local police say it’s legal under Arizona law, but two officers are keeping close by him.
“If we need to intervene, we will intervene at that time,” said Detective J. Oliver.
The man, who declined to give his name, was asked why he was armed. “Because I can do it,” he said. “In Arizona, I still have some freedoms.”
Troll repellant: I’m sure somewhere at some time, some unnamed liberal carried a sign that Bush = Hitler so that makes everything o.k. Of course, they conveniently forget that Bush protesters got moved to “free speech zones” miles away from Bush events and that attendees had to sign loyalty oaths. Or that people got arrested for wearing the wrong t-shirts or having the wrong bumper stickers on their cars.
I am sure when President Obama is assasinated by a right wing murderer, every single right winger here and everywhere will excuse it “because some liberals were mean to Bush.” I wonder if conservatives will celebrate Obama’s assasination.
(And I say when instead of if because, with this rhetoric being sanctioned by top GOP leaders, it is only a matter of time…)
I hope you’re wrong about that.
I think violence is much more likely to between groups of protesters or unsuspecting victims.
Waiting for some conservative cretin to say that there has been no violence due to their idiocy.
Guns allow impotent people to feel powerful. Just think about this guys response to the question. He might as well have said, “Look at me.”
With their child like sensibilities, that many Republicans feel impotent and powerless in a world that confuses and frightens them and therefore brandish guns does not surprise me.
Remember, we haven’t had any terrorist acts on home soil since 9/11 because Dumbya protected us. The wingnuts will say that Obama eroded our safety and that’s why he was killed. I still say we need a state AG or a local DA to file a conspiracy to commit murder charge against Beck-Limbaugh, et al, because if anything happens to Obama, his blood will be on their hands.
That’s the problem. These scared, impressionable people are basically being told it is their patriotic duty to stop Obama and the Dems from destroying their country at all costs. The Becks, BillO’s, and Limbaughs of the world do everything except tell them what caliber to use.
It sounds like many of you are actually hoping someone takes a shot at the Pres. to justify your hatred of the wingnuts and their guns.
LOL. “h.” confuses hope with fear again. We fear what your kind will do. We believe you all are that evil, violent and hateful that you will kill our President.
H must agree that his weak minded cousins in the conservative movement have gotten the message from on high that they have a duty to protect the country.
At this point we all realize that it is only a matter of time before some Republicans nutbag takes a shot at the President.
Hopefully he will survive the next eight years.
Apparently there were actually 2 armed men at the Phoenix event.
My kind? I don’t even own a gun. I am not a republican. I never voted for Bush. I’m not religious. I don’t think I’m violent, evil, or hateful. I just don’t agree with some of the things that you believe in. I certainly don’t wish harm on the president. His policies will fail on their own.
I guess your extreme hatred of the right has me mesmerized.
My apologies… I thought you were a teabagger/deather. It is so hard to keep our conservative commenters straight.
hate to spoil your fun, but he (the black man with a gun) is on your sided. (seen in video chanting “health care now” with the pro obamacare crowd)
minor fact… it’s not a “town hall” it’s a pro healthcare demonstration outside the building where Pres Obama was giving a speach to the VFW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh8XEOQEY-I
he shows up in the last 10 seconds
Alternative Headline:
Law Abiding Citizen Exercises Legal Rights
In Vicinity Of President; Liberals Swoon
MJ — No, if anything happens to Obama, then his blood will be on the hands of the individual who killed him and any individual who he/she may have directly conspired with. It will not be on the hands of the president’s political opponents who urged people to oppose the man’s ill-advised policies.
I love, though, the regular attempts by liberals to resurrect the theory behind the Sedition Act of 1798.
Jason — who is sicker? Those who believe that their guns are sex organs or those who want to take those sex organs away from their political opponents?
When and if Obama is assassinated, I will decry it as unjustifiable and not the act of a patriot.
First, because there is no justification for murdering a political opponent. Obama, at least, is a liberal with a brain.
Second, because anyone who would make Joe Biden the President of the United States clearly does not love this country.
RWR, you should pray that I never move to your city and get in a position to review your work as a teacher. You’ll be digging ditches when I got through with you.
And the guilt for the assassination of an elected leader would be on the hands and heads to those talking heads who continue to call him a racist, a whitey-hater, a Nazi, and a baby killer who will set up death panels to kill off granny and gramps. It’s interesting how those of us who opposed the illegal war in Iraq were called unamerican, yet when we point out that advocating the death of our President and comparing him to Hitler is just as wrong, we’re accused of stifling dissent. Boy, you can’t have it both ways.
So suck it!
Oh? On what basis would you destroy my career? You know nothing of my competence in the classroom, so you have no place to make such a judgment. Or are you simply admitting to your totalitarian tendencies, announcing that you believe that only those with the proper political views should be permitted in a classroom? Sounds like you are proposing to go all McCarthyite on me. What a perfect example of the liberal version of TOLERANCE!
I have yet to see anyone advocate Obama’s murder — and I challenge you to find a single conservative who will not go on the record and say that such an assassination would be unacceptable.
And since the left spent the last eight years falsely calling George W. Bush “Hitler”, you have no moral authority to criticize calling Obama “Hitler” today. And since your side spent eight years falsely calling Bush a racist, you have no legitimate basis upon which to criticize those who accuse Obama of racism today. And given that your side spent eight years saying that dissent is the highest form of patriotism, the words of your leaders calling Americans who object to Obama’s policies “unpatriotic” and “unAmerican” are laughable.
Besides — there is a difference between opposing the president’s domestic policy proposals and engaging in tactics which objectively aid the enemy during time of war. The former is an essential part of our system of governance — the latter trends towards treason.
“First, because there is no justification for murdering a political opponent. Obama, at least, is a liberal with a brain.”
liberal with a brain – now there’s an oxymoron of sorts. but i ask, why do you suggest that inveterate bullshitting, with a vaguely effeminate swagger, is somehow superior? or maybe i’m wrong- maybe you are just calling attention to the anatomical fact that obama has a brain, while not actually implying that it’s of any use?
No, I’m pointing out that Biden, Pelosi, Reid, and most of the rest of the Democrat leaders in Washington are decidedly lacking in intellectual capacity.
very little disagreement from me on that. i do think reid is sort of smart, but he’s kind of strange nonetheless.
So, this man is a threat to the President and the Secret Service is doing nothing? Typical liberal dribble about nothing.
Face it, he is exercising his rights and is a law abiding citizen.
The problem is liberals and Obama hate guns. Perhaps the President will take away the Secret Service weapons?
Mike Protack
“Guns allow impotent people to feel powerful. Just think about this guys response to the question. He might as well have said, “Look at me.””
I was just thinking the SAME thing about liberal blogs. Great job nutless!
MSNBC: No Mention of Black Gun-Owner Among ‘Racist’ Protesters
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kyle-drennen/2009/08/18/msnbc-no-mention-black-gun-owner-among-racist-protesters ^
On Tuesday, MSNBC’s Contessa Brewer fretted over health care reform protesters legally carrying guns: “A man at a pro-health care reform rally…wore a semiautomatic assault rifle on his shoulder and a pistol on his hip….there are questions about whether this has racial overtones….white people showing up with guns.” Brewer failed to mention the man she described was black.
Not only did Brewer, Ratigan, and Toure fail to point out the fact that the gun-toting protester that sparked the discussion was black, but the video footage shown of that protester was so edited, that it was impossible to see that he was black.
compensating for something…
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn15/Huskrrrr/securedownload12.jpg
Thank you for agreeing with my point that guns allow powerless people to feel powerful. No matter what your feelings on gunownership are, I think we can all agree that much is self-evident.
nope,
I don’t accept the characterisation of “powerless people” or “feel powerful”
Firearms are called equalizers for a reason.
I think I agree with jason.
As you said “Yawn…Another Day, Another Armed Man Outside A Townhall Meeting.”
And yet what happened? Nothing. No one harmed, no one threatened or intimidated, just average Americans exercizing their Constitutional rights.
And isn’t the carrying of a firearm in such a context a form of expression protected under the 1st Amendment?
“Waiting for some conservative cretin to say that there has been no violence due to their idiocy”
Where’s the violence here Nemski? He had an AR-15 and a pistol and was not threatening in any way, shape or form. (as both the local cops & Secret Service attested to)
Other than the liberal media getting their collective panties in a bunch this is a non-issue.
Hey dumbass, “their idiocy” wasn’t limited to that day, let’s just take this year, how about that?
Right. There has been no vioence when you forget to count all the prior acts of wingnut violence.
jason330, that wasn’t wingnut violence, that was just random criminals. Right . . .
Damn, I wish sarcasm could show up better in comments. 😉
This isn’t that complex but I am not surprised that Mike is playing little games. If you bring a gun to one of these town halls you’re trying to be an intimating asshole. It’s a tacit yet explicit threat of violence. That’s the only reason you have one. Even self defense or hunting is violence. If you discharge a weapon it’s violence and that’s it’s only known purpose – unless you use it for anal masturbation.
You have the “right” to a library card too but I don’t see people brandishing them aroung on principle.
Just because you can do something doesn’t mean that the choice of when and where to “exercise your right” is meaningless. Why don’t people bring them to school board meetings? It all about angry white guys being threatening and saying LOOK AT ME I HAVE A TINY DICK!
To say otherwise is a disingenuous little game.
Spot on DG. Very well said.
Sorry, Mike, but I grew up in a place steeped in gun culture. One of the tenets of gun culture was gun safety. That meant responsible gun ownership. I don’t know what mind-reading skills you think you have but I’m not against gun ownership. Most of my family has guns, usually more than one. Even in that area, no one would carry around an assault rifle like that. The only times you would carry around a rifle would be for hunting or target shooting. Everyone else would certainly frown upon some guy carrying a rifle through the middle of town. The clear intent of these guys was to intimidate. One of them even said they wouldn’t let the majority rule.
These guys have ties to right-wing militia groups from the 90s. The same ones that did the OKC bombing.
Since when did carrying an assault rifle become freedom of speech?
If you bring a gun to one of these town halls you’re trying to be an intimating asshole. It’s a tacit yet explicit threat of violence. That’s the only reason you have one.
I feel bad for you. You’ve got serious issues if you consider mere carrying of a firearm “intimidating” and an “explicit threat of violence.”
Luckily your own whacked out, irrational fears have no bearing on my rights.
Look up the word “Brandishing” Dorian. Or is that too much to ask?
Brandishing is a crime in most states (including DE) while Open Carry is not.
“One of them even said they wouldn’t let the majority rule.”
Good. We don’t live by mob rule. This is not a Democracy, it’s a Constitutional Republic.
It all about angry white guys being threatening and saying LOOK AT ME I HAVE A TINY DICK!
Man, I’m continually amazed at the lack of intelligence shown by some of you folks. The man in question carrying the pistol and AR-15 WAS A BLACK GUY who didn’t act in a threatening manner.
And IU – Do I really have to spell out the 1st Amendment angle of this for you again?
Leave it to anti-gun “tolerant” liberals to bring in the penis jokes. Clearly some of you have either inadequacy issues of your own or an unhealthy fixation on penis.
I’ll tell you what, I’ll take your point on “brandishing”. So let’s say “displaying openly” how about that. Open carry? Even the esoteric terminology is fucking dorky. It’s fucking revenge of the nerds with holsters.
So far as my irrational fears, you didn’t understand what I wrote. All the things a gun is used for are violent. The discharge of a weapon is by definition violent. Do you scratch your pussy with it? If and where you chose to display one to prove some arcane point has meaning.
If someone feels the need to “display openly” a firearm to prove they have a right we are already fully aware they have, what does this mean? What does this have to do with Health Care? Why not “display openly” at a tennis match or movie theater or a tractor pull or whatever it is you shitkickers do? This is a threat.
By the way, I am not afraid of anyone. Esspecially gun nuts. I’m not even scared of things I probably should be scared of. Go lube your fucking gears or whatever.
I would be intimidated for me and my family, by an unknown fella, black, white or whatever “open carrying” an assault rifle at an event that had absolutely nothing to do with guns. Even more so lately with all the violent rhetoric and kooky behaviors going on at these town hall meetings.
What sane person wouldn’t be intimidated, unless they themselves were packing and ready for the big showdown at the town hall.
The act itself is threatening you fucking turd. A gun is a WEAPON! It’s its only proper use. Yes, you have the right to own one. Yes, you have the right to “open carry” whatever the fuck that means. But it is a weapon. It is inherently threatening.
If I bring Chinese throwing stars and a trident and a spear to a county zoning commission meeting on residential easements it’s threatening you fucking dummy. And I look like a tremendous dickhead. Even if I just sit quietly and read Madam Bovary. You are so dense.
I think Mike feels the need to argue the point regardless of the circumstance. Oh, and on the penis size score I will put mine up against yours, flacid or hard, with photos, on this blog, as proof. I am not even kidding a little bit. I am a fucking maniac. Ask anybody. You name the time. Pimple dick.
Wow! This thread just became very interesting!
One of mike w’s problems is that he demands we all trust every gun owner, and that’s just not realistic. I have no idea who these people are – they are strangers – and, yes, I would be intimidated if I attended a meeting and there were people openly carrying guns – because I DON’T KNOW THEM!
Why is that so hard to understand? Guess what else? I don’t approach strange dogs either.
Carry is the operative word DG. You know, the whole “Bear” part of “Keep & Bear?”
What is it that gets your panties in such a bunch over someone peacefully exercizing their rights?
CCW is not a right it’s a priviledge. Open Carry or “display openly” as you call it is a right. I can OC during Sunday morning breakfast at IHOP on 13. If I conceal my gun to avoid “intimidating” pants-shitters like yourself I am committing a felony.
I’m sorry you’re so threatened by the legal exercize of rights. Get over it. In the past plenty of bigots were threatened by blacks exercizing their rights. (and reading comments here it appears some still are) Over time they either got over it or were shunned by society and exposed as bigots. I suggest you do the same.
Good stuff, DG.
Well DG, that would have to be a different thread.
“The act itself is threatening you fucking turd”
Typical. Can’t argue a point without namecalling. Can’t substantiate his position.
I suppose every single cop you’ve ever wallked past (including plainclothes) is inherently threatening as well.
I’ll work on that thread later, meatball! 🙂
“One of mike w’s problems is that he demands we all trust every gun owner, and that’s just not realistic.”
So for you the default position is to distrust all gun owners and consider them criminals or “potential criminals” and yet you have the gall to say we’re the paranoid ones? Not to mention your default position is openly hostile to the manner in which we treat all individual rights in this country.
BTW that’s also a pretty bigoted statement. Care to change “gun owner” to “black person” or “woman.” Of course not, because that’d expose your bigotry.
If Mike W does not understand intimidation, he is on the fringe and needs to be watched. I, at least, don’t trust him at all, so far!
It’s like free speech and then thinking that it’s just fine to yell fire in a crowded theater.
Come to your senses, Mike W! (I’m assuming!)
“It’s like free speech and then thinking that it’s just fine to yell fire in a crowded theater.”
How so? I’m doing no more than exercizing my right in the manner allowed by law. It’s not my fault if you can’t handle that without freaking out. And what’s ironic is that if it were not for the fact that CONCEALING is a felony we wouldn’t have the problem of having you folks get bent out of shape at the sight of a gun.
Part of the reason why concealment is a crime is that hiding guns was historically something that only those who were untrustworthy or up to no good did.
In Mike’s world guns fire themselves because gun owners are never irresponsible or hot-headed.
Poll 100 people at random. Present two scenarios.
1. A sales woman comes to your door selling the wonderful new vacuum cleaner the MW Sucks 3000.
2. A sales woman comes to your door selling the wonderful new vacuum cleaner the MW Sucks 3000 with a loaded Glock 9 straped to her hip.
What presentage are more put off by the second person? Is this because they are irrational bleeding heart liberals who hate the constitution or because evolution has allowed our brains to access situations for danger?
Still waiting on the challenge by the way. Let’s see who is afraid of inadequacies. Put you money were my cock is! Let’s see what’s what. I will so enjoy a picture of my monster cock next to your sad member right here on DE Lib.
Stop putting words in my mouth. I never said I distrusted all gun owners. I said they were strangers. You’re the one stating that they’re all trustworthy, law-abiding citizens.
Yeah, a gun thread!!!! We haven’t had one of these for awhile.
Riiight, because that’s totally what I said. If you have an intelligent point to make please to so.
The guy was articulate, respectful, and totally non-threatening. He was interacting with other folks there. The cops and SS were aware of him and did nothing BECAUSE HE WAS NOT THREATENING ANYONE. How hard is that for some folks to understand?
Oh and yes every cop is threatening until proven otherwise. Terrible point by Mike. 5:nil to DG!!
Isn’t life in prison or the death penalty enough of a discouragement to not be hot headed with your weapon? I mean, that is what the death penalty is all about, isn’t it, discouragement?
Gun owners and second amendment enthusiasts who open carry are not the people you should be afraid of. They know the law to the letter and abide by it. They are not going to chance losing their freedom by being irrational with their weapon.
You should be more worried about criminals who illegally conceal, illegally obtain, and do otherwise illegal things. They are the ones you should be focused on.
I mean, that is what the death penalty is all about, isn’t it, discouragement?
dude, seriously?
Let’s get back to the real topic. Prof. Gates was very mean to the police officer in his house, so he deserves to go to jail for 4 hours.
Put you money were my cock is! Let’s see what’s what. I will so enjoy a picture of my monster cock next to your sad member right here on DE Lib
So I was right. You do have a fixation with other dudes penises. If that’s your thing that’s fine by me. I have no issue with gays. Unlike you I’m not hostile towards the rights of certain groups.
I don’t necessarily disagree with Shields. I am not afraid of gun owners per se. The guys carrying at town halls about health care to prove some bigger constitutional point are bizarre to me.
“Oh and yes every cop is threatening until proven otherwise.”
Ah, so you very clearly ARE paranoid. I pass at least 2 cops every day on the street. I say hi, nod, and sometimes chat. I don’t cross the street to avoid them because they’re inherently threatening. You do that if you want, but I suggest you not let your irrational fears run your life like that.
Gun owners and second amendment enthusiasts who open carry are not the people you should be afraid of. They know the law to the letter and abide by it. They are not going to chance losing their freedom by being irrational with their weapon.
Amen Brian. Unfortunately their fear is not rational so you’ll never get through to them.
I really do love the fact that a black guy carried a pistol and an EVIL ASSAULT WEAPON and despite what some here would tell you NOTHING HAPPENED.
Of course I do. When you have this huge thing in your pants it’s all I can think about most days. I like the inference that I’m gay and then to soften the insult you use the old “no issues with gays bit”… I’m just suprised it took you this long to sort that one out. 🙂
And who said I’m hostile. I just agreed with Shields for fuck sake. I just don’t understand how you think openly carrying a loaded deadly weapon isn’t in any way off putting to reasonable people. Especially at discussions about health insurance.
I love the way the libtards here never let facts get in the way of a good rant.
an armed black man protesting in favor of Obamacare morphes into
“It all about angry white guys being threatening and saying LOOK AT ME I HAVE A TINY DICK!”
so it’s not just a testicular obsession, the libs on the DL also are focused on penises and lube.
It’s all so infantile. If you really loved guns you leave them home. Who are you trying to convince? I know… I’ll be shocking and carry it to a little league game! Consititution says I can!
Fuck you Anoni. I mean really. Right in your fucking face you prick. I made about 17th great points in like 9 different comments. And you pick out the jokes and insult them. You are a complete fucking asshole.
And if he can’t legally CCW then what? He should just forgo carrying entirely because the exercize of his rights scares and offends you?
Who’s being infantile again? You’re the one getting your panties in a bunch DG.
Here’s the thing I’ve noticed whenever I’m around “gun enthusiasts” – granted, not all. They insist on showing you their gun, telling you to hold it, feel its weight in your hand. (It really is sexual.)
Fuck you Anoni. I mean really. Right in your fucking face you prick. I made about 17th great points in like 9 different comments. And you pick out the jokes and insult them. You are a complete fucking asshole.
Ah, he points out your blatant misrepresentation of the facts (as I did already) and you personally attack him. What a child.
Pandora – Showing it to you and having you hold it is “sexual?” Really? It appears you’re the one ascribing sexuality to an object.
They insist on showing you their gun, telling you to hold it, feel its weight in your hand.
You must hand out with a different crowd then. I’ve never had a single person unholster and show me their gun, even when in large groups of armed folks.
Pandora – I’ve had female gun enthusiasts show me their rifles before (and yes, I did hold them) Is it a sexual thing for them too. Are they, and some of the women who I’ve seen open carrying compensating for the size of their penises?
They’re not even compensating for actual size. when I was in AZ I OC’d with, among others, a woman who was maybe 5ft, 100-110 lbs and another who was taller than me.
I, for one, am very happy that the President and all the representatives at these town hall meetings are being protected from raging wild animals, like deer, bears, and rhinos, by these Constitution-loving, free-speech protecting Mericans. Even the black one.
(snark off)
Well obviously. All the DL folks have are talking points, insults, and fearmongering.
The guys carrying at town halls about health care to prove some bigger constitutional point are bizarre to me.
I agree, DG. It is really a way to steer the conversation away from health care and back onto guns. In the process they make those who disagree with healthcare reform, and agree with gun rights look like crazy fanatics.
I know they have a right, but honestly, common sense would tell me that if I am going to a presidential meeting, I wouldn’t want to draw the attention of the secret service. Common sense tells me to leave my gun at home.
They have the right, but exercising it in such a manner is downright devoid of any sense.
It is interesting how cowardly the average liberal on this thread really is. They should thank their lucky stars that there are conservatives out there to protect them in the military and in law enforcement.
There are liberals in the military and law enforcement as well.
But all the libs in the military are being kicked out.(snark,snark)
“common sense would tell me that if I am going to a presidential meeting, I wouldn’t want to draw the attention of the secret service. Common sense tells me to leave my gun at home.”
Brian. I get what you’re saying, but the Secret Service disagree with you. He was never a threat and thus the Secret Service was never an issue. He also DID NOT go to a “Presidential Meeting.” He was outside the venue and nowhere near the President.
” Asked whether the individuals carrying weapons jeopardized the safety of the president, Donovan said, Of course not.
The individuals would never have gotten in close proximity to the president, regardless of any state laws on openly carrying weapons…”
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/17/obama.protest.rifle/index.html
I know. They temporarily declare the zone in which the president will be in as a federal area and it trumps all local laws. I would like to see how that works, legally.
I am all for gun rights. Heck, I am the county chair for a huge gun rights political party, but my Mom always said that there is a time and a place, and town halls on health care is neither.
Is it legal, yes. Appropriate, no.
Personally, I don’t find any time or place inappropriate for the exercise of Constitutional rights by American citizens. Heck, in this case the exercise of Second Amendment rights also functioned as the exercise of First Amendment rights as well. As such, there is a good argument to be made that what has been done is in the highest tradition of Americanism.
“There are liberals in the military and law enforcement as well.”
I don’t know about law enforcement, but I never met a single liberal when I was serving in the military. Even the gays were conservative!
Back to the topic, I have no problem with an Arizonan strapping on a licensed hogleg – you never know when you might have to shoot a rattlesnake or a coyote – but the assault rifle was over the top. That’s like Turner Diaries stuff, and I don’t mean Ike & Tina.
G Rex–in 21 years I have met plenty of liberals in the US military. How did you miss them?
For Pandora and Dorian Gray,
From somebody who completely disagrees with you, but is trying to listen carefully and respectfully to what you have said, I offer a response too long to put here. Please visit, read, and respond.
http://delawarelibertarian.blogspot.com/2009/08/comment-rescue-for-pandora-and-dorian.html
Some people just like pissing on other people’s parade.
DG is right; it’s a manhood issue.
But eff that weak gun-toten shit! Next Townhall, I’m gonna assault someone just to celebrate my right to a free and fair trial!
YYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEFUCKINGHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is it legal, yes. Appropriate, no.
If exercizing your rights at a political protest isn’t the appropriate time to do then what is the right time?
Should your ability to protest, to engage in freedom of speech & expression be dependent on whether others consider it “appropriate?”
Let’s be honest, although you’re not among them Brian there are many here at DE Liberal who wouldn’t consider ANY time or place “appropriate” for Open Carry.
One of Pandora’s problems is that she demands we all trust every black voter, and that’s just not realistic. I have no idea who these black voters are – they are strangers – and, yes, I would be intimidated if I went to the polls and there were large black men voting – because I DON’T KNOW THEM!
There we go Pandora. I edited it for you to highlight the bigotry. Also, I hope you’ll read Steve’s post on this issue and comment. It might do you some good. Probably not, but we can always hope right?
Mike – you are a fool. Did it really eat at you for five and a half days before you replied? Or did the NRA just take that long to reply to your email?
Large black man = intimidation
Large white man = NASCAR fan
LG – You moron, don’t you know there’s a 5 day delay for receipt of talking points? I assume yours arrive quicker since they’re so basic by comparison 🙂
Talk to Pandora Nemski – It was her statement, her bigotry.
Mike, you’re a lying sack of sh*t. I never wrote any such thing. How dare you post such a vile lie and attribute it to me.
Mike W., I sincerely hope you are smart enough to realize that you did not just quote Pandora. You quoted someone talking about Pandora. And yet you say the quote is from Pandora. So either Pandora is now talking about herself in the third person, or you are a complete and total idiot at best or a liar at worst.
mike w proves himself a liar.
Mike doesn’t seem to understand that being black is never inappropriate.
I would also ask that in the future he refrain from putting his words in other people’s mouths.
Yes DD I understand that. Hell I was the one who edited her quote.
The fact that she’s so perturbed about her own words when I did nothing more to her comments than change the target group only serves to further highlight her bigotry.
“Mike doesn’t seem to understand that being black is never inappropriate”
I didn’t say it was. Maybe they should refrain from showing up at protests lest their presence offends, intimidates or threatens someone…..
** for a few of you who would love to call me a racist without READING comments I have simply changed the target group to “blacks” in order to make a point and highlight the inconsistency and bigotry seen here at DE liberal. **
The question is whether “being black” is in the same vein as “being a person carrying a gun.” I doubt that they are.
There is freedom of speech in this country, but when I see someone coming near me that is screaming that they have a right to speak their mind, and Goddamnit they won’t be silenced, well… I cross the street to get away from them too.
Mike W, the problem I have is that your comment attributed the racist and bigoted words to Pandora without really explaining yourself. Next time when quoting someone do it accurately.
Bigotry is bigotry LG, and Pandora’s comment speaks for itself. Would you prefer I put “gays kissing” in her comment instead? (or any group performing a lawful action that others don’t like)
Also, I didn’t put just “blacks” in her comment, I wrote “black voters” because like the right to bear arms, voting is a Constitutional right.
Oh, and what if (as was the case with the AR-15 guy in AZ), we have a black man carrying a gun?
Really Nemski? Perhaps you need to look a few comments up.
http://delawareliberal.net//2009/08/17/yawn-another-day-another-armed-man-outside-a-townhall-meeting/comment-page-3/#comment-144560
Actually, Nemski, he did do the traditional “there, I fixed that for you” which usually indicates that he has modified the original quote to show it in a different light.
I did a similar thing a few weeks ago to show that the N-word and anti-Semitic words are similar to using the R-word.
Mike, the point is that you believe that there is never an inappropriate time to exercise your right to bear arms. I disagree. It’s not the same ballpark, and it’s not even the same sport.
C’mon LG, we all know reading comprehension isn’t Nemski’s specialty. He’s proven that here and at my blog on many occasions.
LG – I’m pretty sure I’ve repeatedly made the point that I would not have chosen to exercize my rights in the same manner this guy did. The difference between myself and the folks here is simple. I support his rights even if I fundamentally disagree with his actions, particularly since he engaged in a lawful exercize of his rights.
mike w proves himself a liar.
Nemski, it’s best to read before you type, otherwise you end up looking foolish.
So, you disagree with this guys judgment. Now we are getting somewhere.
Is it unreasonable to want distance between ones self and someone with an outward sign of really bad judgment? For example, if someone had a Bush=Hitler shirt, they do have that right, but it is in poor taste and shows a lack of judgment. I probably wouldn’t want to hang with them.
Someone might have the right to freely practice their religion, but if they hang out at soldiers funerals saying that he died because of teh gays, I have every right to tell them that they are full of crap.
At what point in this conversation have we indicated that what these guys have done should be illegal? And if there is a guy that feels that he has every right to speak his mind to sat whatever, whenever and wherever he pleases, well I don’t want him in the theater with me.
“LG – I’m pretty sure I’ve repeatedly made the point that I would not have chosen to exercize my rights in the same manner this guy did. The difference between myself and the folks here is simple. I support his rights even if I fundamentally disagree with his actions, particularly since he engaged in a lawful exercize of his rights.”
Rights have nothing to do with basic common sense. IF the townhall was about gun control legislation, YES, go have your guns and show it off. Where does guns have anything to do with the healthcare legislation? It has nothing to do with it Mike and you know that. It’s an excuse to incite fear into people. That’s what open carrying does, is it solicits fear among the masses.
Again, it’s not gun legislation we’re arguing about, it’s healthcare so bring your healthcare bill you’re proposing, leave the handgun at home and brandish that new healthcare plan that you guys want to put in.
Let’s play Mike’s game and replace the word “townhall” with “elementary school.” What do you think would happen if some guy is hanging outside the elementary school with an assault rifle?
Shortstuff – The topic of the townhall has no bearing whatsoever on my lawful carrying of arms.
LG – No, I don’t consider it bad judgment. Well, at least aside from technical issues regarding his method of carry and weapon retention.
Bad judgment would be doing what he did in the middle of a Million Mom March anti-gun protest. That would be monumentally stupid given the often violent nature of anti-gunners.
UI – He’d be arrested because it’s illegal. Nice try though.
So, where is an inappropriate place to carry a gun, other than places where mean liberals will beat you up? A job interview? Parent-teacher conference? Your wedding?
UI~ He can’t stick to the point because everything is about HIS/HER RIGHT to carry a weapon. It’s also along the same lines when you see someone with a sticker that says: “I have a gun and it’s loaded”… What is that supposed to “mean” other than, don’t mess with me… It’s an old intimidation thing. Bullies always intimidate because when it comes down to it, there’s nothing there.
I also saw something about self defense is another reason. That’s one point I can agree on however, the big problem with that is that in a crowd of people, a “loaded” gun can easily be removed from someone and end up killing anyone around because some loon decided to do it. It’s a pointless debate because they’ll always go back to the fact that it’s a “right” and so forth. God forbid one discharges and ends up injuring someone. Maybe then, they’ll change their mind about common sense.
Shortstuff – The topic of the townhall has no bearing whatsoever on my lawful carrying of arms.
Mike- The Townhall that the guy was in attendance to, that’s what bearing it has. Carry it all you want, just use common sense around a crowd. It doesn’t take a handful of people to disarm someone, it only takes one.
Nice to know that Mike supports infringing on the sacred right to carry a weapon around elementary schools. So Mike does accept that there are some places where it is inappropriate?
Shortstuff – So people should refrain from exercising their rights based upon what you feel *might* happen.
I suggest you read Steve’s post and the comments to it RE the intimidation angle.
I’m not sure if you indicated you were in the military or not but when I was in, you weren’t allowed to carry a loaded weapon unless we were in a war zone and rules of engagement have been laid out. It’s common sense.
Shortstuff – So people should refrain from exercising their rights based upon what you feel *might* happen.
It’s common sense, I’ve got buddies who are all part of the SPEC OPS community and not one of them, not one of them would even think about carrying a loaded weapon to a townhall meeting with so many things that can go wrong. Some of them are even very strong Republicans who support the right to bear arms as do I. Common sense dictates where you “carry openly” and where you do not. It has nothing to do with rights, it’s common sense.
not one of them would even think about carrying a loaded weapon to a townhall meeting with so many things that can go wrong.
All the more reason to carry.
another Democrat attempt to blame Republicans for violence the Dems commit…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQyUd5Dhvn0
’08 race worker held in damage to Colorado Democratic HQ
Denver Post.com ^ | August 26, 2009 | Jessica Fender
One of two people suspected of shattering 11 windows Tuesday morning at the state Democratic Party headquarters has an arrest record and a history of helping a Democratic political candidate, public records show.
Police said that about 2:20 a.m., 24-year-old Maurice Schwenkler, now in custody, and an at-large accomplice took a hammer to the picture windows displaying posters touting President Barack Obama and his health care reform efforts.
Early Tuesday, Democratic Party chairwoman Pat Waak said the damage to her building in Denver’s art district was a consequence of “an effort on the other side to stir up hate.” She tempered her statement after Schwenkler’s political history was revealed.
“What I’ve been saying is there is a lot of rhetoric out there from both sides of the spectrum,” Waak said. “That’s what’s been disturbing to me. People are saying a lot of things not appropriate for civil discourse.”
For weeks, people on both sides of the health care debate have rallied across the country.
Schwenkler is charged with criminal mischief and is to make his first appearance in Denver County Court today.
He is accused of doing an estimated $11,000 in damage and could face a felony conviction.
On the last day of the 2008 Republican National Convention, he was charged with misdemeanor unlawful assembly in St. Paul, Minn.
Yeah, and meanwhile DE Liberal and the MSM are busy shitting their pants about people they claim are “violent” despite the fact that they’re lawfully open carrying and not causing harm, disturbance, or property damage.
“I suppose every single cop you’ve ever wallked past (including plainclothes) is inherently threatening as well.”
Of course not. But when cops show up armed for, say, a meeting with newspaper editors, it certainly is a show of intimidation. Stop pretending the right to bear arms is no different from any other right. Your right to practice your religion does not put me in harm’s way; your right to practice bearing arms does.
When dealing with POTUS, you should note, your 1st Amendment right to free speech is curtailed — voice a threat to his life and you could be arrested. Your 2nd Amendment rights should be similarly curtailed where POTUS is concerned, if only for the obvious reason that we cannot afford unlimited security to make sure that all those lawfully armed people intend to keep those arms unfired. If you fail to see this, you’re not really talking about the real world, just the pretend one conservatives love to discuss.
anoni and mike w forget about the murders of Dr. George Tiller, Officer Eric Kelly, Officer Stephen Mayhle, Officer Paul Sciullo III, and Stephen T. Johns.
I don’t think that’s true, Nemski. I think the argument would be that freedom involves sacrifice — that gun mayhem is horrible, but a permanently disarmed citizenry would be worse in the long run. Whether this is true is debatable, but gun-rights supporters are not ignorant of the world around them. Quite the opposite, in fact, which is one reason they feel more secure with a weapon handy.
This isn’t about gun rights – it’s about common sense. Let’s not forget the guy in Arizona who didn’t notice when his gun fell out of his holster. According to gun enthusiasts all legal gun owners are trustworthy. My point is that we have no way of knowing that since we don’t know them. With this sort of logic I guess they should be telling children that talking with strangers who open carry is a-okay.
Right Nemski, because those crimes were obviously all committed by folks lawfully open carrying. That line is getting old.
What is it with you folks conflating us with criminals? Just can’t help it can you?
mike w. it is because before these alleged murderers open fired, they were lawful gun owners.
Right Nemski, because those crimes were obviously all committed by folks lawfully open carrying. That line is getting old.
What is it with you folks conflating us with criminals? Just can’t help it can you?
nut jobs, not criminals. Then the nut job with a gun becomes a dangerous criminal with a deadly weapon created to kill.
Let them carry spoons to the event I say. Or bring a pool on their back.
mike w. it is because before these alleged murderers open fired, they were lawful gun owners.
Yup. In America everyone is law-abiding and presumed innocent until found guilty by due process of law.
You’re a lawful car owner…until you get behind the wheel drunk and kill someone. A lawful knife owner, until you pick it up and murder your wife, A lawful blog owner, until you use it to libel someone.
The method we have for determining “law-abiding” status depends on whether or not the person has committed a crime and been found guilty of it in a court of law.
What do you suggest Nemski? That we treat everyone as guilty, as a potential criminal and to hell with their civil rights?
Seriously man, think about your statement and how utterly ridiculous it is.
Yup. In America everyone is law-abiding and presumed innocent until found guilty by due process of law.
You don’t get it Mike. You’re stuck on your “right”. No one here is questioning that, what we’re all saying is good common sense. Here’s an idea for the folks that love to carry a gun and show it off…
Sign up for Blackwater, take the place of a soldier over there that really shouldn’t be over there and go see what it’s really about to be in a war.
Anoni,
No one is singling out nutjobs to Republicans. RIGHT NOW, Republicans do look like nutjobs with the rhetoric and the stupidity shown. Let’s not compare nutjobs with “highly intelligent”, “highly knowledgeable” people that profess to know their civic and national duty to uphold the American way of life and stop the oppression of the Nazi, socialist regime that Obama is pushing by carrying firearms to a NON FIREARMS based townhall meeting that has something to do with giving people healthcare and nothing to do with GUNS. So when we talk about nut jobs, let’s level the playing field to determine exactly what the definition is.
If Republicans want to gain respect and gain ground on some of us who at one point believed in the values that the GOP stood for, than stand for something other than ridiculous nonsense. Stop with the Socialist, Marxist, Nazi crap as we all know what it really boils down to is it’s just another word for the fact that Obama isn’t a good ol’ boy…. If Steele or anyone from the GOP actually came out and denounced the nonsense and stood up for true values and actually presented an alternative health care bill, then and only then it would be an intellectual discussion.
This isn’t about a discussion of rights, That’s the bottom line, present an alternative because status quo as far as health care is concerned, doesn’t cut it anymore…
“This isn’t about a discussion of rights, That’s the bottom line.”
Really? How the hell do you figure that?
“Really? How the hell do you figure that?”
Let’s see if I can dumb this down enough for you: You have to right to free speech, with certain restrictions. If you choose to say something stupid, you have the right, just as we have the right to point out that it’s stupid.
You also have the right to carry a gun to a political event. And we have the right to point out that it’s stupid to do so.
Does this help?
No, since you specifically DISCUSSED RIGHTS, after claiming that “this isn’t about a discussion of rights.”
Way to dig yourself a hole Geezer……I am in awe.
how long until the Obama left succeeds in ignighting their Richestag Fire?
so far we have:
Union goons assaulting protestors
an Obama supporter with a rifle at a rally
False claims of death threats by Rep Brian Baird.
Dem opperatives smashing the windows of a State Dem HQ
what’s next?
mike w. it is because before these alleged murderers open fired, they were lawful gun owners.
Just thought this was worth highlighting, since we again see Nemski’s outright disdain for the Constitution.
Pandora – I love that you’re so offended by having your own words used against you. It’s priceless.
Have you responded over at Steve’s yet on this topic? It was written with you in mind.
I never said the argument was about rights — that was someone else.
It’s funny, though, to hear you talk about people shitting their pants with fright. Isn’t the reason you carry a gun because if you couldn’t you’d shit your pants with fright?
“Isn’t the reason you carry a gun because if you couldn’t you’d shit your pants with fright?”
Nope. I’m currently sitting here unarmed (well no gun at least) and yet I’m shitless.
Do you wear a seatbelt because without one you’d be paralyzed with fear? Do you keep a fire extinguisher in the house becaues without one you’d live in such a constant state of paranoia that you couldn’t function?
A hand gun is to self-protection as a bucket full of oily rags sitting next to an open flame is to fire protection.
Riiight, because a firearm sitting on a nightstand or holstered on my hip can spontaneously jump up and shoot me all by itself.
Awesome analogy! U R Sooooo Smart!
Here’s the big picture as I see it…
With everybody talking about what is happening outside these town hall meetings, noone is talking about what is happening INSIDE these town hall meetings.
I think this was a calculated stategy to steal the spot light and it worked.
It’s actually quite brillant. Shift the focus on which Obama considers a political winner to an issue where Obama is politically weak.
The media couldn’t resist bashing gun owners, so they took the bait. Obama was hoping for wall to wall coverage of him talking to regular folks about how he’s going to save health care and instead, we’re all discussing 2A Rights.
Neither Media bashing, nor Obamacare will not prevent Mike W from eventually shooting himself.
^ Indecipherable comment for the win!