BREAKING: Democratic Congresswoman Giffords Shot in Arizona
Update: There are differing reports that Congresswoman Giffords and 6 others, including some of her staff and a Federal judge, have been killed. Others state that she is still in surgery.
NPR reports that Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) was shot at a public event at a grocery store in Tucson, Ariz. Peter Michaels of of Arizona Public Media tells NPR that at least five others, including staff, were hurt as well. At Least 12 Reportedly Shot
The assassin is in custody.
A witness tells CNN that he heard 15-20 gunshots.
According to Tucson Citizen, Rep. Giffords was shot “point blank in the head.”
According to KOLD, a Tucson CBS affiliate, the shooting occurred just after 10:00 AM local time at a Safeway grocery store.
I will not jump to conclusions right now. Yes, we know teabaggers are a murderous lot, and how they have screamed about their 2nd Amendment remedies time and again. But there is no report right now about who did this act of terrorism and murder.
Once we do, and if the conclusions we jump to are realized, well, I can’t even finish that sentence it is so horrible.
My thoughts are with the injured and their families. So tragic.
One report said that the shooter is in custody.
This is terrible news. I hope she is o.k.
Probably just an isolated incident. Not related to the right wing terrorism that Beck and company have been advocating. Not at all related I’m sure.
She just won a close election against a guy who held a “target for victory” shooting event featuring fully automatic M16s to “remove” Giffords – so I’m sure that this guy was just a nut and not influenced by the GOP’s bloodthirsty philosophies regarding “2nd amendment remedies” to election results that they don’t like.
We still don’t know if it’s political but recall that Rep Grijalva’s office, which is in the adjacent congressional district, was shot up last year as was Giffords’.
Jeez, could you tone down the rhetoric and let this thing play out first? This is truly awful, DelDem, but using it to make a few hyperbolic (“all teabaggers,” “civil war begins”) points is pretty cheap.
Arizona is starting to resemble Germany in the 20,s and 30,s, economic hardships tend to make the bullies lose control. This is probably the opening salvo in what will become a very ugly decade, the right wing noise machine will insure that violence is a viable option for the stupid to take.
She was on the famous Sarah Palin “Target List” and according to Tucson Citizen, Rep. Giffords was shot “point blank in the head.” That makes it a political assassination. I don’t think that it is hyperbole to say that Democrats are being targeted for murder for being Democrats.
Sorry Mike. I am angry. But it is not cheap if it is true. And mark my words, if this is political, I will not have this swept under the rug as a one time incident.
I agree Jason. I think some cynical moderates need to have their eyes opened a little bit.
And according to NPR, Giffords has died.
This is disheartening, no matter the motivation. If it does end up being politically motivated (not known), then I am ready to call American political (constructive) discourse dead.
Disheartening? Understatement of the year.
This is absolutely disgusting, tragic and outrageous.
I just flipped a bunch of cable channels and they are all confirming she has indeed died.
“And mark my words, if this is political, I will not have this swept under the rug as a one time incident.”
And nor should you. All I’ve asked is to allow the investigation to be completed before making those insinuations.
Understood, but as Jason and myself have said, given the rhetoric of the right wing, it is not hard to jump to that insinuation.
Report from an eyewitness.
At least 6 people have died. One of the injured was a 10-year-old. There is a suspect in custody. Giffords was one of the districts targeted in Sarah Palin’s infamous “lock and load” ad.
Gabriel Giffords is only 40 years old.
Disheartening? Understatement of the year.
Sorry that wasn’t enough. It’s fucking disheartening. Does that work? It’s disheartening to me when anyone loses their life at the hands of another. It’s sad, it’s depressing, I feel a sense of sorrow for them and their survivors. It’s fucking disheartening.
It was politically motivated: A source tells Ed Espinoza that the shooter “called out names of people as he aimed at targets.
NPR
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and six others died after a gunman opened fire at a public event on Saturday, the Pima County, Ariz., sheriff’s office confirms.
Heartbreaking.
Info is sketchy.
Sarah Palin, mission accomplished.
You know the drill guys – the moment they release the shooter’s name, do a Google search and pull down everything, especially before they scrub his entries in StormFront, Freeperville, gun nut and teabagger sites.
It will only take them thirty minutes to cleanse the Internets enough to begin building the lone-wolf narrative.
right wing talk show hosts tell people that the dems are going to have their guns and rights taken away unless they “do something” + right wing feeling their oats after winning an election + their queen telling them to “reload” = ….
Hopefully this was just a crazy person and a random act. Think of what it means if the Baggers have decided to starting doing what glenn beck, and his kind have been hinting at.
A child is now confirmed to be among the murdered.
Link to Palin’s map. Giffords’s district (AZ-08) is on it.
JFC DelDem. PLEASE! Is this really necessary? You’re taking CHEAP, POLITICAL shots at a time a woman has been murdered. A woman who was murdered by an individual whose motives are not clear.
You did the same thing with the census worker last year. How’d that end up? All I’m saying is you should probably be a little more sensitive to the situation at hand.
This was an assassination, pure and simple.
A ray of hope? A sheriff on MSNBC is saying that Giffords, while gravely injured, is still alive.
Kent state comes to mind, 4 dead in ohio, now 6 dead in Arizona, now is we no longer have a fair and balanced media, so any reports of outrage will come with a Python stle nod,nod,wink,wink, she was after all a liberal democrat, the group responsable for all are nations problems.
I don’t think we can call it an assassination yet without knowing the shooter’s motives. Details are slowly coming to the fore. If this was an isolated incident by some nut off his meds who showed up incidentally, then it’s not an assassination. If his motives were to harm the congresswoman and terrorize the event, then yes.
So according to Mike Matthews, I and everyone must ignore the violent eliminationalist rhetoric from the right wing, the history of violence against this particular Congresswoman and others, and just simply say this is horrible.
Fuck that.
The first thing the shooter did was walk up to Gifford and shoot her in the head.
This is horrifying. Her tea party opponent held shooting events targeting Giffords.
DelDem,
I’m sorry you’ve resigned yourself to twisting my words. I don’t feel I should have to defend myself any further because you’ve done such a PERFECT job of characterizing what I’ve said. I’ll no longer comment on this thread so you and those who continue to defend your filth can keep wallowing in it.
Mike, whenever an political official is killed, no matter the motive, it is called an assassination. Reagan was shot by a crazy guy with a thing for Jodi Foster. That shooting was not political. Yet, it is called an assassination attempt.
Wake up Mike.
C’Mon Mike. I think the shooters motives are pretty apparent. He was motivated to kill a Democratic Congressperson.
” If this was an isolated incident by some nut off his meds who showed up incidentally….” Thank you. I think we all know the GOP talking points by now.
Most news outlets are confirming her death. I hope MSNBC is right, but I’m not hopeful.
Shot at close range is not a political assassination? What in your mind makes it not so! You dont go to an event with a loaded gun, unless you mean to use it. Its going to be difficult for any progressive democrat as the baggers are now in charge. The insane are in charge of the asylum.
Mike’s right, people need to chill the fuck out. Remember how everyone jumped to conclusions about the shooting in upstate New York.
Mike Mathhews; we can,t call it an assassination, then what, a deer hunting accident? c.mon you sound like such a dumb fool.
CNN right now is clamming up. I’m sure we’ll soon hear this is “…an isolated incident by some nut off his meds who showed up incidentally” it always is. Nothing to see here folks. Move along now.
i say we force Arizona out of the union.
Rep. John Carney’s statement from Facebook:
she is apparantly NOT dead but in surgery
Pima Arizona Sheriff Clarence Dupnik live on MSNBC says he can “100% confirm” that Rep. Gabrielle Giffords is still alive.
Fox News just declared that it was a “lone gunman” out to kill as many as possible who happened to catch the Congresswoman in his crossfire.
So there you have it. Lone gunman. totally random violence, nothing to worry about.
“It will only take them thirty minutes to cleanse the Internets enough to begin building the lone-wolf narrative.”
C’mon, you know they did it before he even left his doublewide
The Gawker eyewitness story says that is was a Giffords staffer who tackled the shooter. And that the Sheriff and EMTs took 15 minutes or so to get there. If true, that is an awful long time to wait for emergency help…..
Fox News just declared that it was a “lone gunman”
Meanwhile FOX is no doubt frantically scrubbing its web forums.
Giffords’s office is saying Giffords is alive and in surgery in very critical condition. One of the dead is a child.
Trent Franks (R-AZ) is also peddling the lone gunman / deranged lunatic line on MSNBC.
How about this? How about conservatives and Republicans stop using violent and gun rhetoric in their political and campaign speeches? How about that? That way, lunatics are not encouraged to kill, and we stupid liberals are not encouraged to jump to conclusions?
How about that?
KOLD in Tucson is live streaming its coverage and they are emphatic that Giffords is not dead and is in emergency surgery.
All we know about the shooter right now is he is a 21-year-old white man.
She was doing her “Congress Report” on the sidewalk outside Safeway. This was obviously a planned event with her staff in tow. They say the Capital has beefed up their security, but when they go home, they have no security? Geez are we going to pay for security guards now for every person in the Congress and Senate. This country is sliding into an abyss none of us have ever seen before. And please dont tell me this has nothing to do with the teabaggers and the Second Amendment remedies.
LOL, Delaware Dem, blaming someone else for your reactions. Typical liberal. 😉
But you are absolutely correct that Teapublicans need to shut up about revolution.
Supposedly she is still alive. There is a hospital rep on the phone with CNN saying the congresswoman is in surgery. This whole situation is wildly sad…but if she is alive, why the heck is the news reporting her dead???
CNN has a spokesperson from University Medical Center in Tucson who says Gifford is in surgery.
Speaker Boehner says that violence has no place in politics in his statement of horror.
Irony.
She was doing her “Congress Report” on the sidewalk outside Safeway.
Horrifyingly, there must be video somewhere.
I am sure there is video. Hopefully it is used in the prosecution of the assassin. And I hope we never have to see it.
How dare people “politicize” a political assassination!
MSNBC is reporting that a Federal Judge has been killed in the shooting as well.
So does this mean we’re going to have to have US Marshals guarding every Congressperson and Senator. Geez.
TPM saying:
“The hospital is reportedly going to release a statement on Giffords in 30 minutes. We also have a report that a news conference will be held at 1:30 PM local time (3:30 PM EDT).”
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2011/01/giffords_alive_in_surgery.php?ref=fpblg
Sarah Palin has issued a brief statement on the shooting: “My sincere condolences are offered to the family of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and the other victims of today’s tragic shooting in Arizona. On behalf of Todd and my family, we all pray for the victims and their families, and for peace and justice.”
May I be the first to say, fuck you Sarah Palin.
KOLD noting that Gifford’s husband (an astronaut) is scheduled to go up on the last space shuttle flight.
And Cassandra I heard it reported earlier, although this might be a mistake, that her brother in law is also an astronaut and is aboard the space station right now.
“First they came for Gabrielle Giffords, and I did nothing….”
I guaran-fucking-tee that’s not how I’m writing it.
I think both her husband and BIL are astronauts.
Me neither CycloneRanger.
Watching Shep Smith on FoxNews.
The New York Post: Her father Spencer Giffords, 75, wept when asked if his 40-year-old daughter had any enemies. “Yeah,” he told The Post. “The whole tea party.”
She is married to an astronaut and his brother is an astronaut as well.
http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/astrobio.html
Shep Smith says that officials are looking for “Possible second suspect”
Is this what the Repuk’s call a 2ND amendment solution
Shep Smith says 19 shot, 5 are dead.
We went for John Carney’s open house. Little girls in their Christmas dresses and little boys in red bowties all over the house buildings. That was Wednesday…and she probably had a few of those folks visiting with her, and waving from the balcony.
I don’t know how to stop this, but we must.
Nemski be careful according to the University Maryland fox Noise listeners are the most misinformed people in America
Arlen Specter is tanned and rested.
If there is a second suspect, then no one, including Mike Matthews, can deny that this was politically motivated and premeditated.
FoxNews and Shep Smith are hands down beating CNN and MSNBC at coverage of the shooting.
LOL, Truth Teller . . . but Shep has shown that he doesn’t march to the sound of the FoxNews drummer.
And now reports are again that she has died. Hospital news conference expected at 3:30.
Well, it appears Nemski drew the short straw and had to watch Fox for us this weekend. LOL.
FoxNews saying that someone dropped a gun at a grocery store back in 2009 at a Giffords Meet & Greet.
DD, what station? Fox News just reported a family friend (state senator) said she was in grave danger.
I will quote Andrew Sullivan:
Let’s just say for one moment: this is so awful that political grandstanding seems both inappropriate right now, and yet also very appropriate. An attempted political assassination is a political act and deserves a political response. We cannot wish this side of the question away. We do not yet know the motives for this excrescence. But they matter.
LOL Delaware Dem, had to find FoxNews which was really difficult.
No station, internet reports from Andrew Sullivan.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2011/01/murder-in-arizona-live-blogging.html
Looking for a second suspect would explain why such a huge area around the scene is on lockdown.
Here is something I just heard on KOLD — that Rep. Giffords filed a bill this week that would stop an automatic pay raise for Congresspeople AND would give them a 5% pay cut.
Redstate.org. ” Unfortunately, the left is using this tragedy to score political points. Rep. Giffords was on Gov. Palin’s target list for defeat this past November. The left claims Gov. Palin has blood on her hands. So does the tea party movement.”
The irony..? They are forgetting to change their bloodthirsty signatures calling for revolution and bloodshed.
“Whoever has his enemy at his mercy &
does not destroy him is his own enemy”
etc…
FoxNews discussing how the congressional district is extremely moderate. Griffords also use to be a Republcan.
FoxNews saying gunmen shot people in the head . . . not scattered shooting.
FoxNews says the FBI has now taken over the investigation.
Caught a little FoxNews myself…so now someone in the crowd shot back at the gunman? Wow, what the heck is going on in AZ, how do folks go to an event with guns! This is just crazy.
President Obama’s statement:
Giffords father identifies likely suspects:
An antedoctal report from a reader of Sullivan’s site:
State Senator Lina Lopez: Giffords responding to commands. (FoxNews)
Her two biggest transgressions appear to be voting for Obama,s health care plan and opposing the Arizona Immigration law as being unconstitutional, add being pro-choice and it,s a witches brew as far as the tea party is concerned
so now someone in the crowd shot back at the gunman?
Wonder where those bullets ended up…
Arizona has one of the most “liberal” concealed/carry laws in the country.
You know, Abe Lincoln was a Republican and he was shot – so both sides do it, really. Both parties are exactly the same.
Arizona has one of the most “liberal” concealed/carry laws in the country.
… which was signed Friday by Gov. Brewer (takes effect in 90 days).
State Senator Lopez says presser about to start about Giffords and then one later about the shooter. (FoxNews)
A federal judge is one of the victims. The reports are that he or she has died but reports are sketchy right now.
Except that Booth was a confederate, Jason. Not a liberal.
State Senator Lopez mentions the Tea Party hate toward Giffords. Lopez says that Giffords was always more concerned about her staff than herself. (FoxNews)
Arizona has always been an open carry state. ( delaware is an open carry state as well ). Though Arizona is one of the states where you can open carry in the car. ( delaware you have to put it in your trunk while driving ).
Is there really a need to make this about gun control?
Just anticipating GOP/MSM talking points DD.
State Senator Lopez heard a rumor that the shooter was a Afghan veteran (FoxNews) – a rumor!!!
Seriously, Shep Smith on FoxNews is doing outstanding work.
Suspect is identified (FoxNews)
I wonder if Castle got threats and that’s why he opted for the telephone conferences instead of the district meetings?
U.S. District Court Judge John Roll was killed at the Arizona shooting, MSNBC reports, citing law enforcement
paratrooper18, Giffords is a staunch supporter of the 2nd Amendment.
Castle did get threats I heard.
Federal Judge John M. Roll killed (FoxNews)
Wikipedia/Judgepedia:
Is there really a need to make this about gun control?
No, its about mind control and Fox and Clear Channel are up to silk tied necks in it.
Sheriff’s office: Giffords is expected to pull through. Thank god.
Shep Smith has stated that it was reported that the suspect said something at the shooting. No idea what that was.
Giffords warned of this:
nemski, i mean on this board..
jason: the reason for the phone conferences is that any public meetings end up being disrupted by nonsense from the 9/12 traitors screaming about the birther issue and abortion. Not only do they not believe in the constitution, they also do not believe in anyone elses right to free speech.
Then add in the legions of old people who barrage about medicare reimbursment rates for doctors. 30 people ask the same question 30 different ways.
It really pisses me off because in Delaware the Sentors and congressperson do not hold alot of town hall meetings, not like in PA. And I went to one and found out why.
FoxNews backtracks on Roll’s death.
Shep Smith confirms that the shooter was a 22-year-old white male. (FoxNews)
News reports are saying Giffords will pull through. I hope this is true!
This video is making my hair stand on end:
Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy
The killer is Jared Laughner born in September in 1988. 22 years old.
Time to begin searching.
AP saying the suspect has been named. FoxNews won’t release it yet.
The teabag right including St. Sarah and Bill Colley in Delaware (our biggest, and fattest, offender) are culpable for this violence against elected officials and civil servants.
Some right wing bloggers are blaming this on Muslims, too funny, but somehow I feel this is not a time to even smile, let alone laugh.
And FoxNews confirms.
Thank God the Federal government has jurisdiction, not only in the investigation but in the prosecution.
Tucson Citizen:
“Police arrest man near Thornydale and Magee Roads who is suspected of being connected to the shooting of Giffords and others. A third man is being sought.”
Jared Laughtner, 22, is the shooter. It’s reported that he’s an Afghanistan veteran.
Hospital Press conference on now
Jason, then it is a conspiracy.
this guy is a ghost, no myspace, facebook, address, or phones. at least on the sites i use to find people.
10 patients, 1 dead, 5 in critical, 5 in surgery. The congresswoman is in critical condition, out of surgery.
The dead person was a young child. Fuck you Jared Laughner.
Thanks for posting the video, UI. “..we affect change at the ballot box…” NOT by the barrel of a gun, unless this new congress includes assassination as process. If it’s on, it’s on.
I am in agreement with Mike Matthews here. DD, you are off-base here. In fact, if someone took your words to heart, and committed violence in retaliation for your assignment of this being a political assassination, you would be as culpable as you claim that Beck/Palin are for this.
If this was a Republican that had been shot, I wonder what conclusion you would have jumped to.
OMG Fucking Mike Todd in that clip. What a douche bag!!
Giffords is responding to commands, shot in the head and the bullet went through her brain and exited.
Hospital presser says 1 dead, 5 critical, 5 more wounded. The dead is a child, age 9. Also the shooter’s name is Jared Loughner.
I respectfully disagree Liberalgeek.
If this was a Republican that had been shot, I wonder what conclusion you would have jumped to.
Target practice?
What about the weathermen?
President is speaking soon.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10
Image of someone named Jared Loughner from Tuscon. Warning, we don’t know if this is the guy.
DU notes that Free Republic seems to be down right now — *speculating* that they might be scrubbing their website as we speak.
As I mentioned earlier, LG, Mike is right and peeps need to chill out especially since facts are coming in slowly.
The only thing I can find on any Jared Laughner is a cell phone from San Diego, and an address in Utah. can’t confirm an age on any of them though.
wow liberal, awesome find
tea party terrorism?? palin: mission accomplished?? beck and his right wing terror plot??
You people are sick. if this happened to either a D or an R (or anyone else) it is a tragedy through and through. Dont blame the GOP or anyone else-except the sicko that did it…who was ID’d as
Jared Laughner.
Shooter has weird YouTube channel.
Classitup10 is username. Google on that one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=3L1lsLU-kUw
Weird.
Odd, LG, odd.
LAC, yep. Just a lone wolf. No connection to anything. This all happens in a vacuum.
Chill? Who are you, John Travolta? Just chillax as OB/GYNs are shot dead and clinics are bombed. You’re the problem with the left, you have no backbone. You are either afraid or unwilling to get into the mud with the right wing pigs. Pull down your skirt, sally.
Reports that a 2nd arrest made (FoxNews)
CR – There will be plenty of time to assign blame if the guy is a Beckerhead. Going off half-cocked helps no one’s cause.
Everyone please chill. This was alone wolf. Someone off their meds. Republicans don’t try to incite this kind of violence. If some crazy person gets an idea from all the talk of revolution it is just because they are taking the killing liberals talk too literally.
CR, you know nothing.
well at least he isn’t a religious zealot….
Jason330, that’s not what I’m saying at all. But please jump the gun like everyone did when the upstate New York shooting went down as well as Ft. Hood.
This video was favorited by shooting suspect, Loughner.
Now hearing the shooter posted at FreeRepublic. Not sure the name he posted under.
Jason is just channeling his inner hater.
Perhaps Jason and DD are correct, but there is no way for them to know at this point.
Um, I don’t remember the NY Shooting, I do remember the Holocaust museum shooting where it was connected to the right wing. I do remember the Pittsburgh shooting where three police officers were killed by a right wing zealot. And while I do recall Ft. Hood, I do not recall anyone here or elsewhere jumping to the conclusion that it was a right wing attack.
LONE WOLF!! No connection to the events of this media environment. Fox just said it again.
True dat LG, they could be right.
So far, all I know about the guy is that he is a shitty video editor. 3:20 into the video I linked above the shitty music gets cut off and goes silent. Plus he is basically blocked by a tree during his big mask moment.
“You are either afraid or unwilling to get into the mud with the right wing pigs”
id rather just watch them drown in it.
No. I’m with you, Nemski, and Mikle M. this is probably all nothing. the shooter was off his meds or somthiing, Riiiiight.
C;mon. Let’s all grow up a bit. I think this guy wanted to kill a congrssperson,
that favorited video is probably him.
…A democratic congressperson who beat a teabag in a close election.
Jarred wanted a gold standard. I’m sure he thought that one up on his own.
His shitty video says something about him only having his right arm. It’s the freakin’ one-armed man.
Actually Jason330, the federal judge who was killed had several rulings that many didn’t like.
Anyone else notice that the profile on this guy’s youtube page that LG passed along is written in the past tense…as if he was expecting to not be around after this.
Nemski, Mike and LG are right that I can be hyperbolic, and I was when I referred to a “civil war” in one of the first comments on this thread. They are also right about jumping to conclusions. But then again, ignoring the political climate, the violent rhetoric from the right, the history of prior right wing terrorism, is to be blind and ignorant.
We must qualify our remarks yes, speaking in ifs and not whens. But to not speak at all is wrong.
Yes Shaun. One of the videos, if they are his, refers to the Final video.
Now on Fox. the shooter was an “evil monster” “monsterous degenerate” and “lunatic.” My point is that there is going to be an effort to innoculate the GOP from the downstream effects of their practices and policies.
With a wonderful assist from some liberal friends, Jason.
Hove you noticed that the GOP talking points are now equal parts “Shock that someone would try to score ‘political points'” and “Lone wolf, Monster, crazy” ???
They are very very good at this. They have so cowed the press that you can’t even point out the simple truth that this was a political hit.
NASA sources: Rep. Gifford’s astronaut husband, Mark Kelly, lands in Tucson in a NASA jet – NBC
How much do you want to bet that there will be criticism about this “inappropriate” use of government resources?
No innoculation. Just let’s see what the investigation shows (the preliminary will be done soon enough)
The guy has some issues. Those videos remind me of the unabomber or the guy that flew his plane into the IRS building. Weird shit, posted a month ago.
Shep Smith on MySpace . . . “It’s like Facebook, but it’s not.”
Apparently there are MySpace pages that are deleted. You’ll probably have to move quick to see the videos, I imagine they’ll be taken down soon.
He has this obsession with currency, language, and the use of B.C.E v. A.D.E. (which should be C.E.), and some sort of anti-religious deal.
The dynamic that is going to play out over the next few weeks is so sadly predicable.
Republicans: “How dare Democrats suggest that we meant our calls for bloodshed literally!!”
Democrats: “Sorry. It was the hippies.”
I’m not thinking that the Pres. is going to change that dynamic.
From what has been posted, he reminds me not of your typical teabagger, but rather of a Ron Paul follower.
More Loughner quotes:
“The majority of the citizens of the United States of America have never read the United States of America’s Constitution. You don’t have to accept the federalist laws. Nonetheless, read the United States of America’s Constitution to apprehend all of the current treasonous laws. …. In conclusion, reading the second United States Constitution, I can’t trust the current goverment because of the ratifications: The government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar.
No! I won’t play debt with a currency that’s not backed by gold and silver! No! I won’t trust in God”
“From what has been posted, he reminds me not of your typical teabagger, but rather of a Ron Paul follower”
same thing. uneducated libertarian morons who dont want the gumment helping anyone but them.
Shep Smith said that the suspect did not understand grammar either. LOL.
Representative Raul Grijalva of Arizona, one of Ms. Gifford’s Democratic colleagues, said:
This is the one and only time I will ever watch Fox News. The coverage is pretty good and Shep has some interesting one liners.
meanwhile, Frau Brewer is looking into Rep Grijalva’a immigration status.
To Get My Vote, I’m with you on that. After today, FoxNews is dead to me.
I refuse to watch Fox because I won’t give them my ratings points, but I will say that Shep Smith is the only journalist on that network.
Do people on the right need to tone down their rhetoric? Yes. Should Palin stop using gun metaphors? Yes. My prayers are with Congresswoman Giffords.
But a lot of people on the left need to tone down their rhetoric as well. Even this website posted a “second amendment” remedy: http://delawareliberal.net//2010/11/27/the-leftist-second-amendment-remedy/
Finally, let’s not jump to conclusions about who the murderer is. Let’s be patient and find out who this person is. Could he be a tea partier? Sure. Could he be leftist? Sure. He is also a veteran of Afghanistan. So he could be upset about the war and took out his anger on Giffords due to the war.
More quotes from the terrorist:
“Every US Government Official Agency is illegally accepting payment not in Gold or Silver.”
Well, it looks like he is one of yours, DelLib.
Frau Brewer is speaking now on MSNBC.
She is smiling. God, she is a disaster
Suspect’s MySpace page:
“The Odyssey” Oh god! he’s a Greek! 🙂
Thinks US is a terrorist country
Two illegal wars
Police are unconstitutional
Likes flag burning vid
Does not “Trust in God”
Obviously a Tea Party/Sarah Palin type
“Never could have imagined that this could take place” – Republican Governor Brewer. I am sorry but if I could imagine that this could happen due to violent campaign rhetoric, then so should a Governor. If you really did not think this could happen, then you are a fool unfit for office.
Socialist Ben and Delaware Dem,
There are plenty of socialists/leftists who committed a lot of violence in the past. How many people died in enforcing socialism/communism? Hundreds of millions more than any anarchist/libertarian movement.
Furthermore, if this guy was intent on killing Rep. Giffords, then no concealed carry gun law was going to stop him. If he was willing to break the murder law, he was definitely going to break the concealed carry law.
And your comments regarding ron paul do nothing more than fan the flames of hatred, as well. It takes two to fight, two to create the partisanship that exists today.
He also had some beef with his community college.
http://video.moglik.com/v/VhAx8WzNJT0/This-Student-At-Pima-Community-College-An-Un.htm
Ishmael,
I hope you were being sarcastic. Palin is the opposite of those things. If anything, she is pro-police and pro-wars.
DelLib,
I am no longer supportive of gun control measures. If anything, I think everyone should armed to the teeth.
All these people killed, but we mustn’t hurt the libertarian’s feelings.
There are plenty of socialists/leftists who committed a lot of violence in the past.
Yeah, name one who has done this in my lifetime.
Yes, we mustn’t talk about how he sounds a lot like Ron Paul because in 1917 there was a Communist revolution in Russia.
DelLib, I am merely quoting the terrorist.
The act of the shooter is an abomination! My prayers go out to the person or persons who were killed, Congresswoman Giffords and all other victims.
Any person who politicizes this tragic event shows that they are no different than the very people they purport to be extremists.
Shameless! As House Speaker John A. Boehner said: “…an attack on one of us is an attack on all of us…”this is a sad day in our country.”
A political assassination attempt is political, polemic. Get over it.
If he is using MySpace, maybe he really is a loner.
anon – you just made me feel better
By the way, I am sure glad Frau Brewer kept all those violent Mexicans out of Arizona.
Killer is as white as they come.
But build that dang fence.
There are plenty of socialists/leftists who committed a lot of violence in the past.
Yeah, name one who has done this in my lifetime.
OK UI, here are four for you:
Joe Stack (IRS plane crasher) sums up his “manifesto” with this, a popular Karl Marx quote and a stab at Capitalism…
“The communist creed:
From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
The capitalist creed:
From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.”
Amy Bishop
“The woman accused of killing three colleagues at the University of Alabama in Huntsville [Amy Bishop] was a suspect in a 1993 attempted mail bombing, according to a report by The Boston Globe.
“A family source said Bishop, a mother of four children – the youngest a third-grade boy – was a far-left political extremist who was “obsessed” with President Obama to the point of being off-putting.”–Boston Herald, February 15, 2010
Ted Kaczynski
In an article published this spring (2002) by Green Anarchy, a radical environmental newsletter, [unabomber Ted] Kaczynski calls on revolutionaries to “eliminate the entire techno-industrial system” by “hitting where it hurts” and disparages the activities of most radicals as “pointless.”
Oswald was a dedicated communist who had defected to the Soviet Union in 1959 out of disgust with American capitalism. After becoming disillusioned with Soviet life, he returned to the U.S. in 1962. In early 1963, he bought a scoped rifle through the mail and soon used it to fire a shot (which missed) at retired general Edwin Walker, the head of the John Birch Society in Dallas. In the summer of 1963, Oswald was active in street demonstrations in support of Castro. In September 1963, he visited the Soviet and Cuban embassies in Mexico City seeking a travel visa that would allow him to travel to Cuba.
Oswald was among the radicals of the time who saw Third World revolutionaries like Castro as the wave of the communist future. He was well aware of Kennedy’s efforts to overthrow Castro’s regime. As a Senate investigative committee suggested in 1975, Oswald shot Kennedy to interrupt his administration’s plans to assassinate Castro or to overthrow his regime in Cuba.
Unstable,
I don’t know how old you are, but 2.5 million died of forced hunger in North Korea in the 1990s. 2.6 million died in Cambodia’s communist regime during Pol Pot’s 1975-1987 rule. A million people died in Yugoslavia from 1945-1992. A thousand died at Tiannanem Square. This is not to mention all the wars that people died from the wars communism caused.
Source: Rummel, R. J. (1994). Death by government. New Brunswick, NJ: Transaction Publishers.
Although the scale is different, the editors of this blog (delawaredem, Unstable, Jason 330) seem to me a bit hypocritical, when they rightfully denounce violent rhetoric coming from the right, but go ahead and link to rude pundit discussing violence.
What about Ted Rall talking about a violent revolution in America in “anti-america manifesto”. He appeared on the Dylan Ratigan to talk about “violent solutions” .http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=namL_pIqsVo
This only happened last November. Where are you guys denouncing Ted Rall? Again, I’m not advocating violent revolution. If I had any political power, I would stop using second amendment metaphors. But you liberals need to hold up your end too.
And don’t forget the liberal Cro-Magnons wiped out the Neanderthals.
Yes DeLibert, that was sarcasm.
You see, here is the problem. UI asked for examples of liberals being violent. You then cite Communists and whatever it was that the Unabomber was.
No matter how much you right wing idiots might wish it so, liberals are not communists and communists are not liberals. Just like a Communist is also not a Nazi. They are all separate political ideologies.
But if you want to play that game, then you conservatives are all Nazis and responsible for the Holocaust.
Delaware Dem,
Am I calling you a communist? No. On a political spectrum, communists are further to the left than liberals. But, they are on the same end of the political spectrum. The difference lay within the scale. Same thing with anarchists/libertarians and conservatives/fascists.
Del Lib, how about Leon Czolgosz? How about Ted Kaczynski? Actually, compared to percentage of population, crazy anarchists have a pretty strong effectiveness rating, as crazy murderers.
And Nazis are on the same side of the political spectrum as you. So since we are playing this game, let’s compare death counts. I say your side wins in amassing bodies.
Ah, the poor moderates, always left out.
Hate pure and simple is the root of the problem. And all of you here have a lot of hate in you. All people have hate, it is what they decide to do with that hate. I have read all republicans should be lined up and shot on this blog, how is that any different? It is all pure hate for someone no matter who that person is. What if someone does just that? Is it then your hate that brought someone to do it? All of you need to stop and look inside yourselves.
I choose to pray for the ones who were killed or hurt by this person so full of hate that he felt he had to do this.
There are plenty of socialists/leftists who committed a lot of violence in the past.
Which, of course, lets Delaware Libertarian pretend that the current liberals in the US are the same as those committing atrocities in other countries. Is this the same guy who was in a huff over the “strawman” libertarian argument?
Strawman indeed. And spectacularly dishonest.
heragain,
Are libertarians anarchists? No. Same as liberals are not communists. And conservatives are not fascists, as well. A lot of people need to tone down their hate and you (and Delaware Dem) need to do so as well.
Groan.
cassandra,
I can ask you the same thing. Are current Republicans the same as the Nazis? No. You guys are trying to link this hateful crazy dude with the whole Tea Party/Republican party when no such link exists. Just as you are not linked to what Ted Rall says on MSNBC or how you are not linked to the leftist that tried to kill people in Texas with an airplane.
You should give libertarians/Republicans the same courtesy.
A nine year old girl was killed. It’s especially awful when children are killed.
I need to tone down my hate? Don’t be silly. I’m not anti-libertarian. I’m just historically informed.
The first political campaign I ever worked on was Roger MacBride’s. I know who goes to what meetings.
“You should give libertarians/Republicans the same courtesy”
once your leaders stop calling for violent revolution and hide like cowards by calling it “rhetoric” you can earn courtesy. until then, kiss my ass you glibertarian ass-hole.
Delaware Dem,
The Soviet Union/communist china killed more people than Nazi Germany/Holocaust.
oh, NOW the libertarian calls for tone-downed rhetoric. Im sure the free market has a solution for this huh?
No a.price, but had anybody but the Giffords shooter had a gun, that person would have been able to stop the shooter from killing the 9 year old girl or shooting additional other people.
I also think we need a Maher-style “new rule”: no commenter defines another by their more radical/violent political counterpart.
You were reading my mind, DelLibert, as I was writing up a New Rule style piece.
Delaware Dem, I’m glad and I look forward to the piece.
but had anybody but the Giffords shooter had a gun, that person would have been able to stop the shooter from killing the 9 year old girl or shooting additional other people.
Or… more people could have been injured or killed.
Please stop the nonsensical “Chuck Norris” scenarios.
It is posted, but I don’t necessarily think it is what you had in mind, DLibert.
Delaware Libertarian, I don’t see liberals on the same spectrum as Marxist communists since liberals believe in the private ownership of the means of production. In that regard, they are close to conservatives. They only differ from conservatives by their belief that that largely unfettered private ownership of the means of production can lead to many social and economic ills that should be addressed by various means–primarily, tax policy and social welfare programs.
I also differ from your unqualified assertion that would put anarchism on the same spectrum as libertarianism. Bakunin and Kropotkin would disavow what passes for libertarian anarchism today, particularly it’s lack of collectivism.
Joe Stack was no liberal. It was Rep. Steve King (R-IA) who claimed Stack as his own.
Further, the political spectrum is not really a line that goes from left to right. It is a circle. Like you say, Dana, liberals are closer to conservatives than they are to Communists and Fascists, respectively, and interestingly, Communists and Nazis are closer to each other than to liberals or conservatives, respectively.
At the end of the day, none of us are innocent. We’ve all either spoken inflamed rhetoric or stood silent as someone else did, particularly those on our own side.
But each of us has it in our power to improve the situation. We could start right now, if we wanted to. I’m certainly going to try.
Apparently, this appears on the suspect’s YouTube account:
“In conclusion, reading the second United States Constitution, I can’t trust the current government because of the ratifications: the government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar,” he writes in one video posting. “No! I won’t pay debt with a currency that’s not backed by gold and silver! No! I won’t trust in God!”
“Mind control” and the government brainwashing people through “controlling grammar”–it sounds to me that this person’s issues are more psychiatric than ideological.
Dave, please read my new piece I just put up. The sentiments you just expressed is where I am going I think.
So far what I have heard of today’s shooter reminds me of the guy who flew into the IRS building. You expect a teabagger, but when you read their rants you get the picture of someone more like a Paulite or a LaRouchie, but without an obvious affiliation. The common link though is the interest in the legitimacy of the currency.
It may be the teabaggers are just the loudmouth peanut gallery, while there is some other organization that is committed to sending patsies for the hardcore killing.
The teabaggers are out of control! Let’s round them up and herd them into concentration camps. I’ll ready the gas chambers; DelawareDem, you fire up the ovens. While we’re at it, let’s exterminate all of those pesky Christians and Jews and transform the U.S. into an authoritarian paradise…
Seriously, I’m glad to see you kids having so much fun with a tragedy. Don’t stay up too late.
And just when you think Chris Slavens could not be any more of an asshole, he goes and opens his mouth.
Alan Grayson:
Seriously, I’m glad to see you kids having so much fun with a tragedy. Don’t stay up too late.
I’m sure you will be sleeping well, teabagger.
I’ve yet to see a former Democratic VP candidate put out a map with rifle targets. Or a U.S. senate candidate talk about “2nd amendment” remedies. Quit the lazy “both sides do it” bullshit.
A student who drew a map of his school with crosshairs on specific teacher’s rooms would be suspended and sent for psych evaluation. And probably not allowed back.
“A political assassination attempt is political, polemic. Get over it.”
No it isn’t. It is you who wants to make this tragic and outrageous event political. This animal has mental issues. And whether he’s a pure criminal, a mentally defective person or somewhere in between, he should be punished to the full extent of the law.
This isn’t the F&^%$#& Rachel Maddow Show, Olbermann or Glenn Beck hour. Lots of innocent Americans were killed and harmed. It isn’t political at all!
I am a fan of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords; her viewpoints closely match mine. However, regardless of one’s political philosophy, this is a tradgedy. I’m extremely saddened by this.
“Quit the lazy “both sides do it” bullshit.”
http://www.verumserum.com/?p=13647 (Behind Enemy Lines means what exactly?)
And Google “Republican office vandalized” to see how bad it got back in the late Bush era.
Nobody’s innocent here. Nobody. The sooner that is agreed upon, the sooner we can improve the situation.
According to former friend and bandmate: He was quite left wing, very liberal.
http://mobile.twitter.com/caitieparker#22979901883682816
Dave, the only way to improve the situation is to have all those on the right who have engaged in violent rhetoric to apologize, like I did in 2008. Until that is done, there will be no improving the situation. Unqualified apologies. Now.
Phil, by that person’s own admission, she last saw him 4 years ago. So I will stick with the killer’s own recent writings, thank you, which indicate that he is not a liberal or a conservative, but a radical I don’t know what, someone who sounds libertarian and athesist.
Show me where a Democratic officeholder is calling for violence. Until then, bullshit.
“Both sides do it.” Yeah, that’s why Sarah Palin is the only politician scrubbing her website.
According to KGUN: Giffords’ Tucson office has been evacuated due to a suspicious package.
I think the TV station’s call letters need to be changed.
And no, I am not making up those call letters.
http://twitter.com/#!/kgun9/status/23898701407723521
“Show me where a Democratic officeholder is calling for violence. Until then, bullshit”
Neither Palin nor Angle (the two you cited) are currently elected officials. The DCCC is run by a sitting Congressman, I believe Rep. Van Hollen at that time.
Are we really doing this? Are you really claiming that the left is innocent while the right is solely guilty?
Dave,
Stop digging that hole. Sarah Palin was the GOP VP candidate in 2008 and the governor of Alaska. Sharron Angle was a U.S. Senate candidate.
Can you admit that the rhetoric in this country has been violent and inappropriate and that much of it came from the GOP side.
Dave, it is all about who is making these statements. Sarah Palin is a much bigger name than Delaware Dem.
“Can you admit that the rhetoric in this country has been violent and inappropriate and that much of it came from the [extreme right].”
Yes, I can, with that one small change. Those are extreme, unaccountable voices. Most of them are in the professional media – Beck, Limbaugh, Palin, etc.
There is a palpable anger out there among those on the right at this point in history. And they’re being convinced to direct that anger at the current administration. I remember sitting in the Hollywood Diner in Dover in early December right next to a table of about 15 white men, all 60+ years old. They were literally repeating word-for-word what they heard on Glenn Beck the night before. George Soros. Van Jones. Gold. Tyranny. Revolution. I can’t properly describe the emotion I felt at that moment, but it wasn’t positive.
But in the end, all we can do is control what comes out of our own mouths. What we need is strong leadership from people in prominent positions who exert discipline over their own side, standing up to the extremes. And that goes for both sides.
I dare say this distinction between official office holders and people in the right wing media is one without merit, a distinction without a difference.
Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck are more a leader in the Republican Party than John Boehner. More Republicans follow what the latter say than the former.
Tea Party Nation founder on shootings: “Can be no civil discourse with people as crazy as those on the left are.”
I’m really not going to equivocate or justify one versus the other, especially if we can’t agree that there’s trouble on all sides of this.
I mean, there was an assassination mockumentary made about GWB, was there not?
Oh Please. Republicans at long last have you no shame?
This was senseless horrific butchery beyond sickening. Those poor souls…
People can make whatever hay of this gets their jolly rocks off, political or whatever.
In my view phony diversionary pants-wetting about political milieu or motivation for this makes light of what is nothing more than a gruesome demonstration that evil is a real force at work in our world, nascent in the hearts and minds of a tiny handful of individuals who secrete it behind disturbed oddball pseudo-grievances.
It is not political, philosopshical, ideological, societal, rational, or whatever. It is the nullification of such things.
There is no political lesson to be learned or point to be made from evil like this. It demonstrates only its unexpected nature and how its manifestation can be violent, predatory, opportunistic, calculated and devoid of any scintilla of humanity.
It doesn’t mean a hill of squat what environmental inputs or cues trigger produce a violent determined psychopath to mass murder.
A cold blooded assassin mechanistically and methodically executes a half dozen or more people and wounds a dozen more in a murderous ambush on a peaceful, hopeful gathering assembled by a sincere, bright public servant and leader and the best some can offer is self-serving snark and cheap callous political point-scoring?
Blech.
At minimum this is a severely-deranged individual, at worst an evil homicidal predator.
Acts like this really test the limits of what if any mercy is appropriate from a civil society in dealing with such malevolent beings, forget niceties of justice.
My own opposition to capital punishment, much less its delayed execution, is really strained, tough to justify by any measure, moral or utilitarian.
Godspeed these victims and their families.
That’s fascile Tyler. It is nobody’s fault. You guys really are shameless.
I prefer the words of Sheriff Dupnik who seems to know what is going on:
Made by the British, Dave.
Last I checked, British moviemakers are not Liberal Americans or Democrats.
I will agree that both liberals and conservatives make violent statements. The difference is, a difference you refuse to recognize, is that we have NO Democratic office holders or prominent figures making the kind of violent evil statements Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachmann and Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh are making. All you have is a statement made by myself in September 2008.
So since we cannot agree on this, our reproachment is at an end. Have fun in your political party Dave. You were, and are, a target of the Teabaggers since they consider you part of the establishment and a RINO. They forced you out of blogging with their hatred and threats. And yet you still seek equivalence between left and right.
Okay. I see that you won’t get it no matter what I say. Go on pretending that our problems all come from one side. That ought to be really, really productive.
As I go, some more reality for you to pretend never happened:
http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/2008/05/kentucky-dem-governor-jokes-about-bush-assassination-at-state-party-dinner/
Twitter sources are saying this guy was a left-wing anarchist type. Also saying that KOS had a ‘bullseye’ out on AZ 8th CD as Giffords apparently voted against Pelosi for leader.
The most damning thing today is this:
“I’ll say this, if your first instinct after hearing about a tragedy is to scrub your websites, you have a problem.”
Looking at you, Sarah Palin.
I wonder now if Sarah Palin is done in politics, as she should be, or if the right wing base further galvanizes their support for her.
I suspect it will be the latter.
I just read this “grammar mind control” stuff came from a far right writer.
And he was a reader of Ayn Rand. Oye vey.
The left attacks the right’s ideas, the right attacks the left’s very existence
Hi Jason, I hope all is well with you and yours.
Nobody’s fault? No. It’s the murderous psychopath’s intentional act (and his accomplice(s) as well, presuming breaking reports pan out).
Fault?? Start with his mother, who brought him in this world, if you want causal blame-shifting.
That I don’t accept your particular laying of fault, pure and free as it is of rank partisan and political opportunism, doesn’t negate where I did lay it quite squarely.
http://www.patriotactionnetwork.com/forum/topics/patriot-action-networks
interesting statement from a website where one can find violence, murder and agression posts against those that would disagree with them every day
Murphy, and the other 9/12ers are members as well – check under the delaware resistance (state grous) and rad the comments and you will see how many Tea Baggers from Delaware are there
It seems to be a crime of opportunity, possibly an act
perpetrated by a deeply disturbed individual who happened to randomly encounter a situation that he felt somehow threatened him, and that triggered a delusional psychotic episode.
For that to be true, Loughner would have to just be shopping at the Safeway, be armed, and be overwhelmed with the desire to kill everyone he saw.
No, this was a premeditated attack, not a crime of opportunity.
A crime of opportunity need not be premeditated. But pre-meditated crimes are inherently crimes of opportunity.
You are confusing opportunity with impulse. Impulse crimes are unpremeditated crimes of opportunity, unless just completely random.
This was a premeditated crime of opportunity, that opportunity being easy open nearby access to a public official in a stationary location for a lengthy period of time broadcast in advance.
Let’s face it, if this same murderer rampaged through Wal-Mart killing at random, you’d still be looking to score cheap accusation points against your politucal opponents.
Good point. For me, to say it was a crime of opportunity, while technically true as you describe, seems to take away somehow the intent of the murderer. Semantics, I know.
I believe that the evidence so far indicates that the suspect was psychotic. I don’t see any reason why to ascribe any more of an explanation for this crime than that. Besides, his paranoid views about the government exercising mind control on the populace would make him inimical to both Dems and Repubs. So in the final analysis there is no compelling reason to believe so far that this congressperson was selected because she was a Dem.
His MOTHER? Right. If she’d had the good sense to abort, we wouldn’t be here. @@
You people truly are insane.
I read Ayn Rand. I teach it, too. And YET, I’ve never shot anyone. Not once. Not for personal or for political reasons. Odd, huh?
Was she shot because she was a woman? Was she shot because she was a Jew? Was she shot because she was a Democrat? Was she shot because she voted for healthcare, or against Pelosi? Which of these reasons would NOT be a political reason? In what way is shooting children & women in Arizona different from shooting children & women in Bosnia, or the Congo?
It’s political. We will have to deal with that. People were shot to instill terror, which is terrorism. American terrorism.
Political and partisan is not the same thing. But this is manifestly political.
It’s being reported that she’s awake and recognized her husband.
This guy rejected the Bible, and loved reading about totalitarianism. His list of favorite books.
Books:I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
Hey David, condemn all of this: http://delawareliberal.net//2011/01/08/the-compilation/
This guy was the opposite of the tea party so why abscribe motivations to him and attack people who in Delaware who never heard of him before? Don’t fall into paranoia. This is a tragedy. We should unite not politcize the event before you even have the facts. Some of these posts were before we even had his name.
Whatever his motivation, it was an act of evil. He seemed mentally ill. On his Youtube channel he mentioned being a terrorist in passing. That is one paranoid “conscious dream” of his that came true.
As an American, I condemn political terrorism. It is corrosive to our system. We can all agree to that.
What I hope we can also all agree to is that severe mental illness (which seems to have been at play) is no joke. We need a comprehensive public mental health strategy to aid early screening and help people. How many more people have to die? Tens of thousands have, but we still ignore the issue.
So now you are for big government run healthcare?
I thought any comprehensive public health strategy was inherently evil, according to your ilk?
I agree David. If only President Reagan had not closed all federal community mental health centers in the early 1980’s, forcing the crazy out into the streets, forcing many to become homeless, and denying treatment to thousands of others over the last 30 years.
If only.
Sure its Reagan’s fault that a 22 year old just born when he was leaving office killed this woman. I have a different approach than a big government run mental health system.
http://www.delawarepolitics.net/happy-today-it-is-a-trillion-dollar-question/
You may or may not agree with the specifics, but I think we can all agree that the issue needs action.
God, are you dense. Reagan closed the very hospitals you say must be created. The only reason this issue needs action is because a conservative President thought it did not need action.
But I am glad you have found your inner liberal David.
So far we learned that this act of violence would of been terrible but understood if it was done for jodie foster.
You people are disgusting. “Normal” people do not do things like this no matter what side of the aisle they lean. Video games, MTV, books, TV personalities… Yeah, they really make sane people go and shoot children in the face. Would it of been better if he was left, and she was a R? Or maybe if it was because he thought it would be a good idea to just shoot people at an unprotected rally.
I can guarantee that if this was definitely ruled as a just a crazy rampage or if he shot a R, this post wouldn’t of reached about 300 posts. It would of been one post from each regular about how tragic this was, and then buried.
RIP Christina; born 09/11/2001: I am truly heartbroken!
http://twitpic.com/3oc4mk
Sadly, DD has let his emotion get the best of him tonight. Indeed, ALL Americans are horrified and saddened by this tragedy.
Republican David points out the inherent disconnect with our nation’s mental health problem (btw, 1 in 5 people in the US suffer from some sort of mental problem – 20%) and DD attacks him with some ridiculous straw-man – Irrelevant Thesis argument.
Likewise, as Phil points out: “You people are disgusting. “Normal” people do not do things like this no matter what side of the aisle they lean. Video games, MTV, books, TV personalities… Yeah, they really make sane people go and shoot children in the face. Would it of been better if he was left, and she was a R? Or maybe if it was because he thought it would be a good idea to just shoot people at an unprotected rally.”
As to Phil’s notion that… “I can guarantee that if this was definitely ruled as a just a crazy rampage or if he shot a R, this post wouldn’t of reached about 300 posts. It would of been one post from each regular about how tragic this was, and then buried.”
…DD actually posted 81 posts thus far, nearly 40 percent of all posts. I’m glad he reminded some of us ‘new’ commenters about his alleged vitriolic post a few years ago and how he’s apologized for it. However, I hope he can have enough character to disabuse himself from some of the condescending and harmful comments that he made tonight.
But I forgive him since, like me, he’s probably extremely upset about today’s senseless tragedy.
Finally, I agree with the logic of both Tyler Nixon in his 8:49 p.m. post and Dana Garrett in his/her 10:18 p.m. post.
I wrote that post in 2008. My advocacy of mental health is nothing new. I just wonder how much longer do we need to wait. If you somehow see it as my “inner liberal” fine. Back me. When it comes to this I don’t care what you call it, let’s get it done. I think it is a compassionate, common sense, conservative approach, but labels don’t matter. It will save us money and pain.
there is a cartoon on the rawstory site that,s really worth a look.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/glenn-beck-donald-duck-teapot/
Give it a look and tell me what you think Also the news hit while I was in the library reading Becks Ayn Rand type novel called “The Overton Window” It was very disturbing, a real smogasboard of fear mongering. Plenty of reasons in that book for a disturbed person to be frightened of and undocumented migrant workers where part of it, and Arizona has a real fear of “those People”
@RD “This guy was the opposite of the tea party….”
Why make that assertion? It seems there’s very little evidence for that. In fact, newer information is pointing the opposite way.
“We should unite not politcize the event before you even have the facts.”
…dripping with irony.
According to Keith Olberman (at his DKos Oct. 2010 diary), Giffords opponent was the one who made up the story about busloads of Mexicans coming into AZ to vote illegally. And UI posted a link that describes the kind of people on Kelly’s campaign:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2011/1/9/934674/-My-Apologies-to-This-Site,-The-Victims,-and-Rep.-Gabrielle-Giffords
Suspect in attack on congresswoman acted alone
There was a note in a safe? Well case closed then. No need to look any further.
Does the note read: “I, insert your name here, planned ahead?”
Comment by Delaware Dem on 9 January 2011 at 12:10 am:
God, are you dense. Reagan closed the very hospitals you say must be created. The only reason this issue needs action is because a conservative President thought it did not need action.
WRONG, it was Carter who presided over the closing of mental health facilities (with help from the ACLU)