I was for the war….after I got deferred from it….
Editors Note: I nearly missed this Donviti catch today – so I wanted to front page it again for anyone else who might have missed it.
So far Romney has out war mongered all the other GOP war mongers running for President. Now we learn this…
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Yep, definitely qualified to be a GOP man. Let other people do the killing, I have God’s work to do…in France…..
Tags: 2008 Presidential, Mitt Romney
Let’s be honest, the Viet Nam War was removed as an issue in 1992 with the election of Governor Bill Clinton.
Vote against or do not support Romney but let’s get real.
Mike,
let’s get real? Uh, I didn’t see Clinton out their stumping for war and recommending we double the size of Gitmo. Flipp seems to be a big supporter of War and Killing, but yet failed to serve his country when he could have had some hands on experience.
but you are right, lets get real and not point out when a war monger and torture supporter dodge the draft.
We shouldn’t worry about a war monger and torturer who belongs to a secretive religious sect while dodging the draft. Nothing to see here folks. Move along.
With all due respect, donviti, Clinton certainly stumped for war, two of them in Bosnia and Kosovo that lead to civilian deaths, destruction, and the use of depleted uranium munitions on unsuspecting civilians. In fact, his speech about why we had to go into Kosovo was so moving it brought a tear to my eye.
He was also pretty silent as we marched towards war with Iraq in 2002 and 2003, a war that his wife voted for and supported in the Senate.
As for “torture,” Clinton was the first US President to use “extraordinary rendition,” and yes, there is at least one example of a rendered man dying in a prison in Egypt after being tortured. (See: Ahmed Osman Saleh).
I garnered respect! wooohoooo.
Ok, I will give you the Clinton stuff. Except the sitting quiet part, most ex presidents don’t chime in (Carter the Exception)
I still feel it is relevant to a persons character. Above fighting in a war, but not above letting someone dieing for one you support.
ps. I never voted for Clinton, and won’t be voting for Hillary.
This is bullshit. Romney is the biggest war monger inthe GOP field.
Sickening.
Mitt had me at Gitmo!
He’s soooo hot and oozes Reaganmones all over the place! We serious and smart people all know that in the court of world opinion, musky manliness destroys competence and conviction.
I can’t blame Mitt for taking the ‘out’ given to him, just like Bush and Clinton had their ‘outs’ as well. Why would a well-to-do, white man want to basically volunteer for that quagmire? And don’t give me that lame, windsurfing, French-loving, peter-puffer John Kerry and his lame ‘call to duty’ excuse!
This is bullshit.
I agree, Jase! This post IS bullshit! Maria proved it beyond a doubt.
Blah, blah, blah. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
wohooo I got bumped up!
Maria didn’t prove anything, she helped my case if anything.
lets double the size of Astra Zenaca next!
HELL LETS GIVE AZ ALL OF BWINE HUNDRED! WOOHOOOO
The article on Mormon-missionary draft deferments omitted a relevant fact: the 1-each-6-months agreement with the government included the provision that we would receive *no* deferments after returning from our missions.
I had a student’s (2-S) deferment before receiving my minister’s (4-D) deferment for my mission in Argentina 1971-3 but when I left, I would not have been able to renew my student’s deferment afterwards. Back then, we pretty much assumed that a nominal 2-year mission actually would be a 4-year commitment, the last two in military service. I had friends that served these 2+2 missions and some of them continued to teach and baptize informally in the military.
For my part, halfway through my mission in 1972, I received notice that I had been reclassified as 1-H, “not currently classified.” I knew several other missionaries who received similar unrequested reclasifications to 1-H that summer. I soon realized that Mr. Nixon was running for re-election that year — I still wonder whether there was some connection.
I’ve wondered since whether this was illegal discrimination by the government because I don’t believe ministers of other religions lost their ability to claim student deferments when they left their active ministeries. My mission clearly was ecclesiastical and not a draft dodge: I spent about 65 hours per week in active missionary service and I taught more than 20 people who joined the Church.
My main point is that rather than being a way to avoid the draft, an LDS mission increased one’s likelihood of being drafted by sacrificing other ways to be draft-deferred.
FYI, I differed from Mr. Romney in *not* longing to be in Viet Nam!
Romney did end up with a draft number.
manaen just delivered a knock out blow to FSP in my opinion. But I guess true belivers are impervious to things as trivial as the truth.
Viet Nam is passe~, move on.
I would appreciate a President with military experience but I am more concerned with someone who is calm, resolute and circumspect.
Like Bush…?
“manaen just delivered a knock out blow to FSP in my opinion.”
A perfect example of Jason-ism. Manaen helps to vindicate Romney from this line of argument, and Jason just starts throwing crap at the wall to see what sticks.
Like this:
Jason, I can see by your statement that you’ll be voting Republican in 08.
I think Manean needs to elaborate on how he feels about the war, how he feels about torture and how he feels (she) feels about the size of Gitmo
and if Manean is the son of a powerful Governor that still wouldn’t help FSP
the problem is Manean’s excuse is most likely more plausible then Flip’s is. Another rich priveleged white kid using his father’s political power to avoid a war.
Then years later in power himself advocates for war.
No FSP, Manean didn’t support Romney.
My main point is that rather than being a way to avoid the draft
FSP,
I think here he is implying that Flip avoided the draft…
the other half of that sentence was:
an LDS mission increased one’s likelihood of being drafted by sacrificing other ways to be draft-deferred.
You say Romney avoided the draft. I say he made it easier for himself to get drafted upon returning.
uh ok fsp
he didn’t have to sign for a deferrment you know. It is an option. Did you read the article?
BEFORE AND AFTER the missionary deferrment. Yep the old student, missionary, student deferrment sandwhich.
Yep, being a governor’s son had nothing to do with anything, all just random numbers. Gosh I’m so shocked he didn’t go to Nam now that you point these things out to me.
DOUBLE THE SIZE OF BANK OF AMERICA! WOOOHOOOOO
I so shocked that NONE of Flip’s five service aged sons are getting into the war Flip is such a booster for.
Viet Nam is passe~, move on.
*
learn from history
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Here are my answers to comments about my earlier posting. Others’ comments are quoted and my answers are preceded by ##.
DONVITI: think Manean needs to elaborate on how he feels about the war, how he feels about torture and how he feels (she) feels about the size of Gitmo
## I feel the Viet Nam war was a waste. I would listen to argument that a WWII-style war should have been fought — with clear victory and freedom for the vanquished (at least in the West’s sphere of influence) — but that isn’t what we did. I oppose torture. I feel that Gitmo is way too small: it should include all of Cuba. I do not believe, however, that it should be used at all as a slick dodge of US and international law to confine indefinitely people we capture.
and if Manean is the son of a powerful Governor that still wouldn’t help FSP
## Don’t worry, I have no such parentage!
the problem is Manean’s excuse is most likely more plausible then Flip’s is. Another rich priveleged white kid using his father’s political power to avoid a war.
## My point in writing was to establish that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was not part of creating special privileges for anybody regarding the draft, because the “Boston Globe’s” article is headlined that the Mormon Church obtained a deferment for Mr. Romney (by name), and others (not named). I do not know whether Mr. Romney’s family used any influence to shield him, but they likely wouldn’t need to do so for him to obtain student and missionary deferments because it’s well-documented that he was both a legitimate student and missionary.
No FSP, Manean didn’t support Romney.
## This is mostly true. My comments here were to support the Church against the oblique assertion that it was complicit in something underhanded. I believe Mr. Romney’s missionary deferment was on the up-and-up — but he could have volunteered for Viet Nam after his missionary service -– but very few, even the ardent hawks among us, volunteered for another two years away from our life plans after the two year missionary hiatus. As for the election, I haven’t decided for whom I’ll vote. I considered Mr. McCain before the last two months of Mormon bashing by his staff. Maybe Mr. Romney will get my vote for being the last candidate standing.
I think here he is implying that Flip avoided the draft…
## I did not mean to imply the Mr. Romney unfairly exempted himself from the draft, just to give a more complete picture of how missionary deferments worked when I had one.
FSP: You say Romney avoided the draft. I say he made it easier for himself to get drafted upon returning.
## I omitted from my earlier comments that the returning missionary’s disqualification for other (e.g. student) deferments *may* have been put in place 1969-1970, which was after Mr. Romney’s mission but before mine. Or that may be when I became aware of it, as my peer group began to contemplate missionary service, and the disqualification actually was in place before Mr. Romney’s mission.
DONVITI: BEFORE AND AFTER the missionary deferrment. Yep the old student, missionary, student deferrment sandwhich.
## As I noted earlier, the second student deferment may not have been available to Mr. Romney, as it was not for me.