I Was Wrong
This is an apology to our regular readers for yesterday.
I let myself and the tone of the blog go yesterday because, to put it simply, I was tired. To explain rather than excuse myself I got a crappy night’s sleep the night before and the gun lover’s endless myopia, zealotry, circular logic and slippery slope fallacies got under my skin.
That shouldn’t have happened I should have just quit commenting because, for better or worse, Delaware Liberal is a different kind of blog now. We have a regular readership that reaches beyond the blogosphere and I need to be more aware of that. So, I’m sorry for yesterday.
All of this is not to say that there is no place for salty language and ad hominem arguments (particularly when they are directed at Tom Carper). The blog is always going to be a rough and rowdy place. I just don’t think my comments yesterday are worthy of where we are now as an online community.
No, but they certainly show us what kind of person you are.
I’m sad to see how childish, angry, and rude many of you are when engaged in good, clean debate. It certainly says a lot about a mans character (or lack thereof)
Whatever. I’m not getting baiting back into this. Have a nice day zealot.
When someone offers an apology, Mike, the gracious thing to do is accept it. To not do so says a lot about “man’s character”.
That was an apology? Not towards me or anyone else, just to Delaware Liberals “regular readers”
Jason used the words “gun lovers” and “zealotry” in his “apology.” I’d hardly call that apologetic language.
And then, in his 1st comment to this post he calls me a zealot. I’d say he’s right back to doing what you say he’s supposedly “apologizing” for.
I’m with Mike on this one. FWIW I disagree with Mike on several gun issues, but the “argument” was childish, and to this observer Mike came out the winner.
The apology is a pretty standard non-apology. Paraphrasing: I’m sorry if anyone was offended by my overzealous defense of sanity in the face of idiocy.
Not exactly what I’d call sincere.
You posted the first comment, Mike. You set the tone of this thread. I can’t imagine how difficult this post was to write. IMO, Jason manned-up and apologized for his language – not his opinion.
Personally, I am sick to death of this topic, and plan not to respond further. Perhaps you have something to add on a different subject, like the economy or the war in Iraq. Perhaps you’ll surprise me with insight into something other than guns. I’ll wait and see.
this apology would have been more hearfelt if you had written it on your ass…
oh well
Is this simply a ploy by Jason to lock-up the “I’m a considerate guy” vote at the hotness contest?
Personally, I think the whole gun and abortion debates are a waste of time. Both issues inspire passions and emotion. Yet, there are two things we know for sure and must accept in the current political environment: 1) abortion will be legal, but with restrictions as to the third trimester, parental consent, 24 hour waiting periods, and the partial birth abortion procedure; and 2) gun ownership is constitutional, with restrictions as to automatic assault weapons, armor-piercing bullets, background checks, and 7 day waiting periods.
I feel when we debate the fundamental principle of whether either abortion or gun ownership should be legal or constitutional, when there is literally no chance anything will ever change about those fundamental principles, that we waste time and ramp passions for no reason but to distract.
Mike, you dislike Jason’s choice of words. Fine. But be aware that you have used intemperate language as have your compatriots and my compatriots. We all get overheated. We all use hyperbolic language.
Be gracious and accept Jason’s apology. That way, when you fuck up in the near future (and you will, we all will), you can apologize and others can be gracious in accepting your apology.
Jason didn’t apologize to Mike. So Mike shouldn’t feel obligated to accpet. He just called him more names. For Jason this was a step up. He apologized to the readers for going beyond the bounds. That is something to celebrate.
Thanks for raising the standards of this blog.
Being a “true believer” means never having to say you are sorry.
“I was Wrong” is just confusing claptrap to them. They rarely hear it and they certainly never speak it.
Very clever, David! Give yourself a 🙂 sticker for that one!
No worries, J. We all know you’re a stand-up guy.
Personally, I think the whole gun and abortion debates are a waste of time.
I think DD is quite right — these issues as they are commonly debated typically involve folks who basically have two separate conversations masquerading as an argument.
Moving on is an excellent idea.
“Perhaps you have something to add on a different subject, like the economy or the war in Iraq. Perhaps you’ll surprise me with insight into something other than guns. I’ll wait and see.”
Pandora
Being that I’m somewhat of a libertarian and I despise Obama (McCain sucks too, just not as bad) I can’t imagine my comments being met with anything more substantive than what I’ve seen from the likes of DTB, Jason, Dominique, and yourself. I fully expect obfuscation and childish, vitriolic insults & namecalling judging by what I’ve seen from Delaware Liberal supporters thus far (though LiberalGeek actually has actually engaged in reasonable debate.)
“Mike, you dislike Jason’s choice of words. Fine. But be aware that you have used intemperate language as have your compatriots and my compatriots. We all get overheated. We all use hyperbolic language”
Nope, only one side continues to engage in name calling and sophomoric insults in place of actual factually based arguments.
Dude, Mike…no offense…but your words make you come off as a pious prick.
And if describing how you sound based on the words you use is considered ‘name-calling’, then so be it.
But for the next time you get the vapors, drink some iced tea.
“Dude, Mike…no offense…but your words make you come off as a pious prick.”
If my calling out Jason’s non-apology for what it is makes me come off as a “prick” in your mind then that’s fine. The fact remains that when you apologize for something and then in the apology you resort to the very thing for which you apologized…. well that’s not an apology.
I see nothing wrong with calling Jason out on his non-apology, especially since he proved my point yet again in his 1st comment to this post.
Not that his supporters will understand this, but jason’s “apology” was not an apology. You cannot say you are sorry for doing something right after doing it all over again, and right before a repeat performance.
In fact, all jason did was apologize for making this particular weblog look bad, which he most assuredly did.
That is not an apology to mike, and, as such, mike should not be beholden to him in any way, shape, or form. That is an attempt to cover his ass and not lose middle-ground type folks… which I am willing to wager that he already did.
Jason330,
No need to apologize. Keep exactly the same tone and write the first thing that comes to mind. You have the potential to be another Alexander Riley of Ceasefire PA.
My first comment? Saying that you are a zealot is hardly name calling given the number and stridency of comments that you’ve made on this blog.
It is a simple fact. If it is a fact that you are not comfortable with, you should try some self-examination.
In the meantime, I’ve come to the conclusion that you guys are not so interested in “debate” as you are getting off on tweaking liberals.
So take it or leave it. The apology was to you. And here is another that I hope meets with your approval.
I’m sorry to have antagonized you by pointing out that you are a zealot.
Right. This “apology” is akin to someone punching you in the face, then saying “sorry, I let my emotions get the better of me,” and then immediately punching you in the face again.
Personally I could care less about getting an “apology,” but that’s not the point. What’s important is to show Jason’s apology in it’s true light, which is why I chose to comment on it.
Somehow, Jason’s actions are good for Rudy Guiliani’s chances!
You sound silly, L.
He apologized for not responsing to pompous inane arguments in a more civilized manner. It is an apology for how he replied and continued to comment. He can be sorry for that and still think your position is crap.
VC was right. You are a pious prick and little baby.
Hmmm… if the post was not directly an apology to Mike, then why did Mike feel the need to respond? He could have just ignored the post.
Dorian Gray,
I hate to point this out, but pious is generally used in a religious context. As far as I can see the comments you are flaming had no religious context.
A much better term of abuse for a tolerant progressive such as yourself to use would be “hypocritical prick and little baby”.
That should help avoid confusion.
“He can be sorry for that and still think your position is crap.
VC was right. You are a pious prick and little baby.”
If so then he should be able to conduct civilized debate without resorting to petty insults. The fact that he (and apparently you as well) are unable to do so speaks volumes about character as well as the weakness of his position.
Good point “Murderboy”.
And were you trying to be pious in your commentary? I did not detect anything theological in your statements. I think you were merely trying to be hypocritical.
Also, your language skills seemed to be at an adult level. Not a “goo” or “gah” in any of your statements. The baby thing is clearly incorrect.
As for prickitude, isn’t anyone who disagrees with a “progressive” by nature guilty of this?
“Progressive” blogs rock.
J manned up?
Bwahahaha.
You are what you are, J. The bitterness, the hate, the rude felcher persona…..don’t deny it, embrace it!!!!
Sorry, but I have to give props to DV. At least he knows he’s a schmegma’d little knob. He is not shamed by it either. He pokes his crusty little head out and eyes up the territory with honesty.
Someday your kids will read all of this J, and if they don’t already know what you are by that point, they will then.
Great job, DAD!
Hey V, will ‘Righteous Indignation” suffice?
I couldn’t tell if your post was an attempt at humor or if you’re a literalist….my bad.
“falsely earnest or sincere: a pious deception.”
Oh I’m a huge douche bag. You’ll get no argument here. Frankly, I am a complete asshole. But I’m not a total fucking tool.
Guys who dote over their guns strike me the same as guys in their 30s who sleep outside overnight to hold their spot in the queue for the new X-box. You certianly have the 2nd amendment right to big the biggest fucking nerd on the planet. While you’re fingering your new .357 Magnum I’ll be nailing all the girls that laugh at you on the street.
Oh and Veroferitas, thanks to the tip. I think common usage allows the for the adjective pious outside the religious context, but it’s still a good point.
I’m sure he was merely being hypocritical, but if you prefer false piety, more power to you.
But the prick and baby comments seem to be standard issue for the “progressive” blogosphere.
Drive on DG.
“I’ll be nailing all the girls that laugh on the street.”
Do tell…
If there are a bunch, will they need to form some sort of orderly line or are you capable of servicing all of them at once?
Vero – These are the same folks who discuss the “penile fantasies” of us pro-gunners.
“Guys who dote over their guns strike me the same as guys in their 30s who sleep outside overnight to hold their spot in the queue for the new X-box.”
I’m sorry you have such a blatant misrepresentation built up in your head. If you actually met “gunnies” you’d see we come from varied backgrounds. There are also quite a few attractive women in the gun blogosphere.
Not all folks over here think that way, Mike.
I’m beginning to think you want all of us to fit that description of yours….it makes it much easier to understand and process into one’s world view.
Vero – I do alright. But feel free to queue up. Historically speaking I can only handle three at once.
VC,
The thread that started this thread and the commentary up to this point are not very supportive of your theory (i.e. “pious prick”).
But feel free to engage in “Reasoned Discourse(TM)” as per “progressive” SOP.
“Guys who dote over their guns strike me the same as guys in their 30s who sleep outside overnight to hold their spot in the queue for the new X-box.”
This description was not mine, It was Dorian Gray’s. He’s on your side Von Cracker.
“I do alright. But feel free to queue up. ”
I hope that was just awkwardly worded and not an invitation.
As a gun nut my heart belongs to colt and I nightly stroke my glock.
Funny stuff, V.
It’s all about the dismissive nature of your recent responses. Going back to your older posts, you’re just as guilty of ad hominems, put-downs, etc…
To do is to deride, I guess.
And yes, German guns are the best!
“And yes, German guns are the best!”
I’ll agree with that! I love my West German Sigs!
Ok, this one was over the top. Accurate, but over the top:
“And to the original post; did jason330 make a single coherent statement?
Like a blogging spider monkey screaming, showing his penis and throwing verbal feces.”
Especially since I have no idea the gender of jason330 and if the blogger even has a penis which to wave menacingly.
And I am so annoyed that Mike got the cool nickname (Murderboy). I’ll bet I am way more unstable and sociopathic than Mike and I stroke my guns way more.
I want an insulting nickname, dammit!!
Point of clarification, VF. I meant “get in line” as in “wait your turn”… there is enough for everyone, etc., etc… like… queue up WITH me, not FOR me.
I appreciate the chance to clear this up. 🙂
“And I am so annoyed that Mike got the cool nickname (Murderboy). I’ll bet I am way more unstable and sociopathic than Mike and I stroke my guns way more.
I want an insulting nickname, dammit!!”
Probably so. I mean I haven’t even been a gun owner for a full year yet, so my EVIL guns haven’t yet had the chance to implant sociopathic thoughts into my mind.
Mike,
As an Army officer and 20+ year gun owner I must be as close as a “Liberal Progressive” gets to believing in Satan, with the obvious exception of the Vice President. Gunnut-babykiller-zealot-loony… all here in one package.
I even own EVIIIIILLLLLL “assault weapons”, though I cannot keep them here in NJ. My babies languish in a gun safe in North Carolina.
And in direct contradiction to the gun preference here, I prefer American revolvers. Nothing is more beautiful than a well crafted wheelgun.
DG,
Just checking. I am as open-minded as my limited intellect as a gun owning Libertarian Army officer baby killer neanderthal redneck allows, but there are limits.
HOLY SHIT…
did you guys see that blog in Massachuset’s that just made fun of the NRA?
insert john wayne voice:
Well you know fella’s it’s time we head outta here and take on the next bunch of yella belly liburls. We cleaned this town up good
(hitches up pants and gun belt)
It’s time to ride on and defend our freedom
Let’s move out! HEYAH!
as they ride off insert 3 stooges music
Army officer
say no more, that explains everything. Beat it O-ring, go hang out with your own kind.
Who are “my own kind”?
I’m sure you have a well thought out and insightful answer ready.
Sorry to disturb your echo chamber.
DTB – Well it wasn’t hard. Aside from wave after wave of insults you guys didn’t put up much of a fight.
Ooes noes! Let’s not get into a squid v landlubber pissing contest now!
Here’s a story our Gun-lovin’ friends will love:
Both my granddads had Walthers. I’m not sure of the models, but one of them was given to my dad’s dad by a former German soldier who moved to Delaware after WWII….pretty cool, huh?
Mr. S moved into the neighborhood during the early 50s and, of course, not many folks took too kindly to him. Most ignored him or made rude gestures and comments, all except for my grandfather. My pop-pop was too young to go to war (he was 15 in 1945), but he knew that most Germans were decent, hard-working people and he really wanted to find out more about the culture his grandfather left behind years before.
Though Mr. S was never part of the Nazi party – one of the reasons why he was allowed to come here – he constantly had to prove that he wasn’t one and showed American Patriotism to a degree that was somewhat comical – kinda like middle-eastern shopkeepers here who put up flags, signs, and stickers stating “God Bless America” after 9-11. Anyway, my g-pop began taking him and his wife to all the social clubs and events, and eventually most of the haters saw him for who he was as a person, not what he represented at one point in his life.
As a sign of friendship and appreciation, he gave my g-pop one of his guns.
And it’s the first gun I ever fired too. I was 12.
One thing about the story that I could never figure out though, how did he get the gun (and other German military stuff – uniform, knife, etc.) over here? I never asked.
Is/ was DTB a squid?
Mike W. thinks he won a fight. That’s cute.
Have a banana, Jason.
You got it.
Wait, I’m sorry, what I said above is not exactly true.
The first handgun I ever fired was a Walther; the first gun was a 12 gauge.
“One thing about the story that I could never figure out though, how did he get the gun (and other German military stuff – uniform, knife, etc.) over here? I never asked.”
It’s quite possible there was no law against it. Aside from laws specifically aimed at keeping blacks unarmed there were very few gun laws in the 1940’s / 1950’s. (well there was the 1934 NFA which was really just a product of the prohibition movement) Also, back then no one really saw guns as evil, vile, scary things, nor did they blame guns for anything or look down upon gun owners the way many of you do.
It wasn’t until the 1960’s that the onslaught of gun laws really began and that they ended up being applied to everyone, not just blacks.
Not a fight Jason, an argument, and you proved so many of my points for me without even realizing it.
Do you own a 12 gauge?
Have you ever heard this quote about them?
“There are precious few horror films that couldn’t be cut well short by a single loaded 12 gauge and someone with the sense to use it. — K. R. Murphy”
Mike thinks he won an argument. How cute.
The “argument” was over after my first comment and you revealed yourself to be a zealot. There is no arguing or debating anything with zealots becuase they are fixed in thier positions. They (you) are impervious to reason.
That when I started with the name calling. And I have to admit, you made one good point. When I started calling you an idiot and a moron I kind of lost my cool.
Sorry about that.
This is my last comment EVER on this topic.
Von – What kind of Walther was it? A P38/P1 brought back from the war w/ in good condition with all the original markings could be worth quite a bit. They’re also very nice guns. My grandpa had an his army issued 1911 that he kept after serving in WWII but I have no idea what happened to it. He died years before I was born.
“They (you) are impervious to reason.”
hmmm then why was it you who was forced to stoop to insults? If you were using reason and logic so well why didn’t you keep it up? I don’t remember seeing a single substantive post you made Jason.
The shotgun was my stepdad’s; he was an advid hunter who owned a couple shotguns and rifles.
Mike,
You are so wrong. Jason made many substantial points:
“SHUT UP!”
“You are flat out stupid.”
“You are a bunch of freaking blood thirsty retards.”
“Fucker!”
“Idiot.”
“Retard.”
Iron clad and based in irrefutable logic.
Face it Mike, you lost.
I was so moved by the elegant simplicity of his style that I am writing out a big check to the Brady Campaign and changing my party affiliation from Libertarian to Socialist.
I had to look on Wiki, since they have pictures of the models.
I’m certain that both of my grandfather’s guns were the P38 model. I remember how sleek the nozzle was, and in my mind’s eye, the guns look like one on the site.
My mom’s mother gave away my grandfather’s after he died in ’85. Not sure to whom, but she absolutely hated having it in the house.
My dad’s father got rid of all the guns in the house after my uncle had a fatal experience involving one of his shotguns. Since Mr. S passed away prior to the incident, he gave it to his son, who was also my dad’s best friend.
My father had bought very nice old collector firearms that were being sold from the Tower of London when they were removing a lot of the treasures during the bombing raids in WWII. He thought about bringing back the Thompson but restrictions were getting tighter then. Shame I really would have loved to see a Thompson in the guns safe. Would not have been able to use it due to restrictions. Just would have been neat to see.
VC sorry about your uncle.
The apology was to the blog about making it look bad. It was not made to Mike. Calling advocates of a civil right “zealots” or “myopic” is not polite either. An apology is made when the transgressor sincerely regrets what he has done. An apology does not require an acceptance. This had the typical hallmarks of a “non apology” apology.
Dominique, Pandora, Jason used ridicule, insults, name-calling. It really sounded like a bunch of 9 year olds. Jason just said that he got fed up, but that is no excuse. Dorian Gray continued in the same vein with the “pious prick” phrase. Jason says we are impervious to reason. The problem is that we do not accept his assumptions, we are glad to use reason arguments, but the offending posters never used logic, rationality, and reason.
It seemed other that Liberalgeek and VonCracker there are no other adults on this blog. Though Liz and a few others were able to talk about guns in a reasonable manner.
Any one who posts on the web should be aware how his words are permanent in the blogosphere.
I agree Jason you should refrain from posting on subjects you are ignorant about. Liberals should rejoice in differences and the right to each to have their say and try to learn from each other. Instead the intolerant childish behavior was manifest.
‘Guys who dote over their guns strike me the same as guys in their 30s who sleep outside overnight to hold their spot in the queue for the new X-box. You certianly have the 2nd amendment right to big the biggest fucking nerd on the planet. While you’re fingering your new .357 Magnum I’ll be nailing all the girls that laugh at you on the street.’
Exactly! That was the point I was trying to make in one of the other crazy-gun threads. Of course, ‘ladies’ aren’t supposed to speak like that. Well, I’m sorry if my blunt, honest assessment of the situation (from a high-quality woman’s perspective) didn’t sit well with you boys. I’m just not one to sugarcoat things in order to soothe sensitive feelings.
Buck up, kids. Stop taking yourselves so seriously. Humor: embrace it. People who carry guns shouldn’t be wound so tightly.
BS Dom just said all women who like to use guns are trash. Why they hell should women take and laugh about insults like that?
Domique your mouth spews filth and trash talk. I guess it takes one to know one is true in your case.
RAH – she is actually an antagonist. You should have seen her when her gun-shootin’ girl candidate was losing to the elitist. She was all about how shootin’ at granpappy’s house in PA showed that Hillary was one of the common folk.
With time, you’ll learn to tune her out…
LG- well she is good at antagonizng, I will give her that. Most adults try to get beyond that childish impluse.
Thanks for the advice.
What kind of Walther was it? A P38/P1 brought back from the war w/ in good condition with all the original markings could be worth quite a bit…
Sounds like mine, with the original holster and spare magazine. My wife has a P09 with matching number that was exported from Russia after being taken as war booty.
They are great pieces of functional mechanical art, along with an M-1911 that has a four-digit serial number. An M-1 that was built the week Pearl Harbor was attacked has an interesting historical sidebar.
The things have a rather unique functional elegance. Some find a lot of beauty in mechanical devices.
Which Delaware blogger drives the hottest car? Anyone ‘progressive’ enough to own a Trabant?