I’m shocked, SHOCKED
Her sinking with the loss of almost 1,200 lives caused such outrage that it propelled the U.S. into the First World War.
But now divers have revealed a dark secret about the cargo carried by the Lusitania on its final journey in May 1915.
Munitions they found in the hold suggest that the Germans had been right all along in claiming the ship was carrying war materials and was a legitimate military target.
Gee, we were lied into WWI too.
Maintaining that the Lusitania was solely a passenger vessel, the British quickly accused the ‘Pirate Hun’ of
slaughtering civilians.The disaster was used to whip up anti-German anger, especially in the U.S., where 128 of the 1,198 victims came from.
Every war needs it’s propaganda and this was the perfect one to exploit.
It was worth it because the cold blooded mechanical ferocity and stupefying carnage of the The Great War made it impossible for humanity to contemplate the very idea of future wars.
just another lie Jason remember world war II followed.
Also while speaking to ships least we not forget the USS Maine a mystery that occurred in Havana harbor
I wonder how y’all will blame this one on George Bush?
Henry Asquith sunk Lusitania,
To drive America into mania
The hawks they did roar,
So we went to war,
But never got into Germania
Another ‘ I hate Anerica’ posting. We did not get into WWI for another two years, the sinking did not get us in the War.
I am curious if you have ever supported any action by the United States anywhere?
Food for thought, Pres elect Obama said during the campaign he would cross the border into Pakistan to hunt down terrorists. Will you support this violation of international law or is Obama a liar and he won’ t act at all?
Maybe he will send Biden to go cave to cave, mano a mano?
I suggest withholding judgment until we see something more definitive than a speculation story in the notoriously unreliable Daily Mail quoting unnamed “divers.”
“Just ’cause it’s got a link doesn’t make it true.” – Proudhon
Mike
Having served in the navy both during Korea and Nam. I would support an incursion into any country that harbored terrorist. I believe the term is called Hot Pursuit. The one thing that got me was why we didn’t blow up Ireland’s shore lights during world war II. We all know as they stated they were left on to to aid Germany’s U boats in sinking English shipping.Unfortuanally a lot of our transports also took a hit.
Invading any nation is a violation of international law. The United Nations was set up to prevent these incursions. Unfortunately two countries control the UN, the US and Israel.
Obama is dead wrong about “sending troops into Pakistan” without UN approval or the approval of Pakistan. Just as Bush was dead wrong to invade and occupy Iraq, so would Obama be if he did the same thing. But with Obama’s keeping the war hawks and war mongers in his administration it appears there will be no “change” in foreign policy. Where is the diplomacy. Remember that Clinton had the Taliban on terrorist list. Bush comes to power and invited them to Crawford and paid $28million of Public relations money to change the worlds attitude about them. Where did that get us…hated in the world. Someone please tell me how those poppie farmers in remote, rural Afganistan are able to get their “product” into nations around the world…do they have swimming donkeys, or swimming camels, or are all the planes leaving the country loaded with drugs for export worldwide?
mike equates hating america with pointing out the injustices it’s leaders carry out. How shocking he is a republican
From the famous line in “Casablanca” by Captain Renault: I’m shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! ……
The lies were told by both sides in every war. Did President Johnson know that the fake“Gulf of Tonkin incident” was used to enlarge the war ?
Hitler dressed German soldiers in polish uniforms and attacked his own country as an excuse to invade Poland. He burned down his own “Reichstag” (Parliament) in order to outlaw all opposing political parties which enabled him to pass his own version of the Patriot Act (Enabling act of 1933). look it up, sounds familiar
I cease to be “shocked”
Einstein said “I dont know how WW3 will be fought but I am sure WW4 will be fought with sticks and stones.
Hitler dressed German soldiers in polish uniforms and attacked his own country as an excuse to invade Poland. He burned down his own “Reichstag” (Parliament) in order to outlaw all opposing political parties
Oh, here come the “Reichstag Truthers” with their nutty conspiracy theories….
Unfortunately I am afraid a smiley will be necessary for this comment 🙂
Ohh Anon , learn something…
Gleiwitz incident – Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaThe Gleiwitz incident, sometimes incorrectly referred to as Operation Canned Goods, was a staged attack on 31 August 1939 against the German radio station …
But you see, I do not need Wikipedia I was there at the time.
Yes we old folks know how to use computers too and still learn……..You got a long way to go.
Good luck along the way
Frieda… turn on your sarcasm detector and re-read #10.
False flag attacks occur in every era.
“Oh, here come the “Reichstag Truthers” with their nutty conspiracy theories….”
Come again?
I forget, what was Kublai Khan’s excuse for invading Japan in 1274?
Liz-Swimming donkeys and camels? Too funny..love it!
Frieda–Thank you. War is Hell, on all sides, for all people, by all people. All options must be exhausted before engaging. To think a “score card”, can be ejudicated in Hague or elsewhere does not assuage, villify, or normalize the war crimes that are and will be committed everyday in countries at war. Maybe I take a too close-up and personal view, but torture is torture, and inane killing remains that. All sides do it, and do it effectively. Which is why we must resist ever perpetuating the lessons that have already been learned; keeping those crimes and indignities in the forefront of our conversations with our children and next generation; of atrocities by ALL parties, and the imperative need to reject war as the oversold, embellished answer to a situation, that may have just needed some time-consuming diplomatic disentanglement. Many may think that is unrealistic, but it sure beats the realistic negotiation of blood, limbs, minds, and orphans to still have what answer? Our enemies are still here, and now our war crimes, and their war crimes…..
In closing, I don’t want this to be misconstrued, as non-support of the troops. I’m just sorry we had to ask you to do this–and will cry foul on those who now want to “fine line” your involvement on our US errand.
Joanne, that was a nice and inarguable statement about the horror and inanity of war. That said, who did you vote for for CINC in 2000 and 2004?
“We did not get into WWI for another two years, the sinking did not get us in the War.”
Mike, it took the US two years to draft, equip and train the Expeditionary Force out of nothing. Remember, we were intensely isolationist at the time, and we didn’t have a large standing army to send “over there.” Even then, Black Jack Pershing refused to deploy his troops under French and British commanders who wanted simply to feed the Doughboys into their meat grinder. Eventually, the American forces were given their own sector to operate in, independently. As a Marine, you should recall the name Belleau Wood…
Back to the point, given the isolationism of the time, it took the sinking of the Lusitania to change the public opinion that the Kaiser’s war with France was none of our business.
anon-I don’t mean to be flip; but doesn’t it seem to be a bit contradictory to ask as “anon” who I voted for?
You are right, it was a rhetorical question, it would have been better to ask ‘who did you support.’ that answer is probably available somewhere anyway.
Voting is private. But the point remains.
Thanks anon- Trust me, whoever I supported never made it to the Big Dance–which is why national politics doesn’t hold a big fascination for me. Something gets lost along the way. Which is why I agree with Dominique to a large extent of a post she wrote a while ago, about just changing the person’s name at the top. Oh man, you guys are all gonna be going home barefoot from the Inaugural Ball!!
Local politics, and cleaning up our own corner, is the root action of making government work for the people, and not just a bunch of people who work for the government. I’d rather model the society we should be, and grow, from there, than replicate the 4-8 year model we have at the top, and keep changing out between the two main dishes. It’s just my own, probably naive myopic of the topic–but with 50 states, and a few territories–and having lived around–I can assure you a Delaware Democrat is not a Massachusetts Democrat, and a Texas Republican is not a California one. Hence, I don’t waste my energies hand-wringing and lamenting over national picks that can in no way represent a national view–but support who’s chosen from a ceremonial and citizenship obligation. Rarely, will I denounce the top. But these local yahoos, are of our own making, and that’s a recipe we can tweak, with more perfect results. Not paying attention locally, accelerates the decline at the top.
Just a question for clarification to DeLib–Does the victim get to keep the shoes being thrown?
Which is why I agree with Dominique to a large extent of a post she wrote a while ago, about just changing the person’s name at the top.
Oh, please. Gore would have been no different than Bush, right? Kerry would have been just the same as Bush, right? You voted for Nader, right? No wonder you won’t say who you voted for.
I think the 50-50 on Bush/Gore answers the question, and the Incumbent Bush/Kerry confirms it statistically.
Main Dish and other Main Dish
“Oh, please. Gore would have been no different than Bush, right? Kerry would have been just the same as Bush, right?”
And give it six months and you’re going to add Obama to that list above and guess what…you’d still be wrong.
President -elect Obama will and should act responsibly, thus as Commander in Chief he will not remove any options from the table and he will respond accordingly. He will have good days and bad. He will make decisions, good ones and bad ones. From what I’ve read he has preliminary plans to INCREASE troops in Afghanistan to the tune of 30k additional, and has stated it will take at least 2 to 3 years to get everybody back fro Iraq if he decided we are ending our efforts.
If for some reason you want to stick by your ridiculous statement, that Kerry and Gore would have been SOOOO different after 9/11, given the same military leadership (and advice they give the President, regardless of who that is) I’ll pick you up and we can drive to the airport and wave at all the troops that come home on in late January (you do believe Obama, the candidate in the primary right? “All the troops will be right home, if you elect me” guy – or was that in the Spring when he needed to say that in order to beat Hillary?). You can even sit on my shoulders and wave to all the troops, but make sure to wave fast and don’t stop, you don’t want to miss all the troops that get off the plane …k?
Warning: I might have to take a break in April or May while were still waiting for them, but make sure to save our spot in the front of the huge crowds. I’ll even bring back new flags for us to wave.
Gore and Kerry would have been drastically different in responding to and carrying out our war plans (Plans that are on the shelf and ready to prosecute at a moments notice) right?…NOT.
To pick on individuals who might or might not have supported their parties candidate is weak, if you truly suffer from Bush Derangement Syndrome and you can’t get over it with an Obama win, you need serious help.
The reality is Pres-elect Obama will act responsibly, and unfortunately for you on the far left, that means dealing with the real wars and not some make believe BS that has troops dropping everything and running home. It ain’t gonna happen…Thank God.
Thank you John.
You’re welcome, Happy New Year!
real wars and not some make believe BS that has troops dropping everything and running home. It ain’t gonna happen…
Which is just fine as far as it goes, except that the Obama campaign pledge was about combat troops home in 16 months. Which, in the usual counting scheme, goes abit further than April or May. Besides, and I guess we should have expected you to not know this, the SOFA calls for our combat forces to be gone in 18 to 24 months, so both the Iraqi wishes and those of the President-elect seem to largely sync up.
And the difference between Gore and Bush after 9/11? That would be PNAC and their paid-in-full representative Dick Cheney. Gore would have gone to Afghanistan which was rational. He would not have gone to Iraq, which was not. And ll efforts to make pretend he would have done exactly the same thing is more wingnut effort to not live up to your spectacular foreign policy failures.
let the rewriting of history begin!
Gore and Kerry would have been drastically different in responding to and carrying out our war plans right?…NOT.
What a stupid ass Feroce is.
If Gore had not had his election stolen and had been President in 2001, the 9/11 attack would not have happened. Unlike Bush and his repub neocons, Gore understood then threat of terrorism, and would have prevented it from happening.
For example, Gore had helped write a report prior to 9/11 that said terrorists might use planes as weapon. Condiliar said “nobody could have predicted…” Bush was warned on vacation in August that Bin Laden wanted to attack and did nothing except tell his briefer “now you’ve covered your ass.”
Gore would never have preemptively attacked Iraq. Period.
For Joanne Christian to suggest that a 50-50 split in the 2000 and 2004 election results suggests some kind of justification that the two candidates are somehow “statistically” identical shows an ignorance in politics, policy, and statistics that is both amazing and appalling.
John seems to think the military runs the country.
Mike McConnell the Rove computer guru that used computers to steal 2000 and 2004 election died in an plane explosion last week. He was going to testify how they switched the votes by computer. Rove threatened the guy several times. McConnell was terrified to use his own plane and twice refused to fly. Unfortunately, he flew the plane which crashed in Akron last week, killing him. However, his lawyer and others have evidence of how they did it. Professor Mark Miller did a whole story on this on Democracy Now (sent Jason the video). So, if these attornies end up dead…we will know more will be “Wellstoned” for telling the truth about the stolen election of 2000 and 2004. We can only imagine what our country would be like today if Gore were President for last 8 years. Certainly we wouldn’t be having a financial meltdown, 911 couldve and would have been prevented. Yes, Gore told Rice, Bush and all of them about Bin Laden and using airplanes…those documents were left unread by Rice. Bush came to power with the PNAC documents, and Iraq was there target.
However, I will be demonstrating and protesting Obama/Biden if they continue to expand the “fake war on terrorism” created by Bush and Cheney. Obama promised diplomacy, but appears to be delivering more war, more horror, and of course we will continue to be the most hated nation since Germany WW2, if he follows Bush’s foreign policy.
Mike is right. The sinking was used to undermine German support which was as strong as that for Britian, but it had almost nothing to do with us entering the war. It was the sinking of three American ships a couple of years later after the Germans lifted their safe passage of American shipping.
World War 1 was a war of choice and one in which we should not have gotten involved. The two sides would have come to a reasonable peace. Germany did not want to get involved in the first place and was the only Axis power left with any strength by 1917. The war was stalemated. Our entry tipped the balance and set up the Great Depression and World War 2.
LiZ no one stole the elections and certainly not with computers. Do you realize that they are all decentralized? Please supply a link to his death. I must not be finding it.