Wingnut Victims — Chrysler Dealerships Edition
And they just don’t stop. The victimization du jour consists of the usual suspects claiming that the Obama Administration decided to preference the closing of dealers who are Republican. Any guesses on how this turns out?
Nate Silver takes a look at the universe of political contributions from folks claiming to be car dealers and finds that 88% (of the data reported) contribute to Republicans. So that would mean that the odds are good that when Chrysler sends out its notices, they will be taking out more Republicans than not. And be sure to read the whole thing. Nate does the work that our innumerate repub friends can’t.
An even cooler look at the universe of car dealers was done by the Off the Map people — who tried to correlate the Chrysler dealership closings with Unemployment Rate, Foreclosure Rates, Number of Registered Automobiles in the State, Registered Automobiles per Person in the State, and Population Density. And while they can’t find any solid correlations for any of these economic categories, I do note that it looks like more dealerships are closing in Blue States.
Just remember that this argument is being made by people who — just a few months back — were arguing for letting every bit of Chrysler and GM fail. Including these Republican dealerships. And now that the car companies are cutting back more than union workers they’ve got their victim hats back on again. Because if repubs get hurt in the deal it must be because Dems are getting their paybacks. Heaven forbid that they should happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time like the workers who have been laid off. Another Fail for the so-called party of business.
Tags: Republican Bamboozlement
“Nate Silver takes a look at the universe of political contributions from folks claiming to be car dealers and finds that 88% (of the data reported) contribute to Republicans. ”
Nate Silver did a web query for people who listed “Auto Dealer” or “Car Dealer” as their occupation. Bob Johnson doesn’t list Auto Dealer as his occupation. Neither does Mack McLarty. But somehow, the competition to their dealerships in about five markets was eliminated. Good for them.
The big story here is that the criteria for closing were not released. There is evidence that it was not done on merit. Some of the most successful dealers in the country were chopped. The percentage of minority-owned dealers that were cut matches exactly the percentage of minority-owned dealers overall.
And the car czar’s wife was a former DNC finance chair.
It can never be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt without the WH releasing the criteria used. But they won’t. What are they hiding?
It can never be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt without the WH releasing the criteria used. But they won’t. What are they hiding?
How come Obama hasn’t released his birth certificate yet? What are they hiding?
“Just remember that this argument is being made by people who — just a few months back — were arguing for letting every bit of Chrysler and GM fail.”
And yet they got billions and are failing anyway.
“And now that the car companies are cutting back more than union workers they’ve got their victim hats back on again.”
So now you’re for the elimination of non-union jobs? Jobs, I’ll remind you, that don’t cost Chrysler one dime?
“How come Obama hasn’t released his birth certificate yet? What are they hiding?”
Maybe if you try to tie a legitimate argument to an illegitimate argument, people will be distracted enough to forget the legitimate argument.
Maybe if you try to tie a legitimate argument to an illegitimate argument, people will be distracted enough to forget the legitimate argument.
But now you see what happens when Fox News and the RNC have been crying wolf for 5 months. If indeed this may be legitimate, the amount of noise coming out of the Republican camp about Obama only drowns out any alleged legitimate concerns.
He was pointing out that your “what are they hiding” argument is illegitimate.
But you know that. This is all a big game to some people. It is all about scoring points.
Jason33? What the frick, you Rolling Rock now? Terrible beer, terrible blogger. 😉
I can’t get it to stop filling in Newt G. When is 3 point Oh! going to fucking get here?
Ahh, a many of nights drunk on Rolling Rock and watching the Red Sox. Good times, good times.
The entire process has been botched by the Obama team. Investors like retirees and institutional funds have lost badly.
For some real facts:
http://delawarerepublican.wordpress.com/2009/05/29/chrysler-and-poltical-parties/
Bankruptcy is messy, At one point 62% of the airline capacity of the US was in bankruptcy. The government stayed out and when fuel prices tripled last year Airlines were streamlined and ready, ditto for the recent turndown.
If Obama is going to solve health care like he solved the auto maker problems, we are all doomed.
Mike Protack
Great stuff from Planet Protack.
When buying a car, the local dealer may be friendlier. However, when it comes to price and selection, the high volume dealer will be your best bet. It is simple economics.
If you are going to drop the small volume dealers, the logical selection for culling would be the little guys. By virtue of demographics, they would tend to be in communities that lean Republican.
Perhaps some people are trying to engage in a bit of curve-fitting to promote an agenda. The Left does in re the Death Penalty when the population on Death Row is used to support ‘racial bias’. Yet it is the nature of the crime and not the color of skin that makes a person a candidate for the needle.
So you add two more Dem dealers to Nate’s sample and you get something like 85& of auto dealers giving to repubs. That still means that if you throw a rock in the autodealer pool, the odds are good you hit a repub.
And — while I’m at it — it is interesting that the only interest is in the closed franchises, not in the more than 400 franchises that filed for bankruptcy or closed so far this year without the push from Chrysler. Bet that pool is overwhelmingly repub too.
Releasing the criteria or no, it has been a long standing bit of common knowledge that the American car makers had way too many dealerships for the number of people (not) buying their cars. That pool was always going to contract. What you guys have decided to do is to disregard a business decision that should have been made years ago in favor of ginning up a new bit of victimization.
It’s not like you guys give a damn when Macy’s is closing its underperforming stores.
anyone get the feeling is using this website to promote his own crappy one?
Personally, I’m getting tired of the blatant linkage
Chrysler and GM are closing their least productive dealers. This has been long overdue. I guess there is no issue that Republicans can’t hyperventilate over.
Ha! What a bunch of babies!
So I guess the amount of dealers NOT getting the axe is overwhelmingly GOP too!
As Nem and DG can attest – Car dealers are mostly shady crooks – go ask Bill Heard! LOL!
No wonder they’re part of the me-fuckin-first party.
and as a buying guide –
You are an effing moron if you buy a new car off the lot – why in the hell would you buy something that depreciates by 15%-20% two minutes after the purchase?
Set up financing before going into the dealership (not with them, use your local bank), so you’ll technically have cash in hand.
Buy a late model, slightly used vehicle. It’s the value for your hard-earned dollar, by far.
DV,
I don’t mind commenting and linking to his craziness here.
If he didn’t I would not know that instead of closing some GM dealerships, his better soultion would be to have all of them close.
“It’s not like you guys give a damn when Macy’s is closing its underperforming stores.”
Extremely disingenuous. The dealers are not owned by Chrysler. In fact, they cost Chrysler nothing. If I’m a manufacturer, I’m trying to get my product in every store in America, not reducing people’s options.
“Chrysler and GM are closing their least productive dealers. ”
Including dealers in the top 2% in the nation?
The dealers are not owned by Chrysler. In fact, they cost Chrysler nothing. If I’m a manufacturer, I’m trying to get my product in every store in America, not reducing people’s options.
Not if no one is buying what you are manufacturing AND it costs you alot of money to get that product into every store in America. Toyota and Honda do not have a dealership on every corner certainly and are not in the trouble Chrysler and GM are. Chrysler’s costs for those dealerships is in keeping them stocked. They can’t do that — especially for something that no one is buying now.
VC is right… finance with credit union, buy late-model used. Cheapest way to own a car.
The evene cheaper method is to pay cash for high-mileage used cars and replace them frequently. Not a bad strategy for younger people without kids. Worked for me in my 20s.
“Toyota and Honda do not have a dealership on every corner certainly and are not in the trouble Chrysler and GM are.”
Plus, you know, there’s the “making cars people actually want” factor.
Plus, you know, there’s the “making cars people actually want” factor.
The biggest glaring omission among ’em for years. Of the three, I would say Chrysler tried, but the repair costs didn’t justify the purchase…so says a three-time Chrysler-owning dolt (truth is, I was fortunate overall, but know the general attitude is they were costly for maintenance). Ford went waaaay to heavy on the mamouth Expedition line and GM…well, aside from their Chevy Pick-Ups, they were about a day late on every product…and still are. At least Ford got a clue, although it was at the last possible moment.
NEVER buy a chrysler product. the hardest and most expensive to maintain.
buy with cash, figure how much that payment would be save it in another account and then in 8 years, buy another car with cash.
oh, and NEVER buy a chrysler product
…and there is arthur to help sell my point! Great timing (simultaneous, actually…creepy).
I will admit, though…and this is ain’t easy as a manly-man…the mini-van line has become much, much better. We actually had two T&C’s…the first was the one where some bit*h hit my wife head-on 50+MPH. If you want someone to sell you on front impact safety, we will preach it about that line of T&C. We replaced it with another and were very happy. We swapped that for a new Grand Caravan (the “poorer cousin” of T&C) last summer and now it’s even better. The first Chrysler we had was a 2001 Sebring. Bleah.
FSP made a point, but not the one he wanted, I think. Chrysler didn’t close dealerships, they ended relationships with existing dealerships. Those dealerships I guess are now free to shop themselves around if they want.
Republicans believe in the free market, except when people aren’t buying what they’re selling.
smitty – did you ever change the battery or air filter or oil in the sebring? you know the car that you had to put on a lift to remove the front whell to GET to the battery? or remove 3 intake hoses to get to the air filter housing? or the oil filter nearly in the middle of the engine?
did i say – NEVER buy a chrysler product?
“Republicans believe in the free market, except when people aren’t buying what they’re selling.”
Are you really referencing the free market in a conversation about the government taking dealership licenses away?
She is referencing the free market in a conversation about a company moving through bankruptcy. People lose in that process in case you don’t know.
Besides, it is awfully strange to advocate for the continuation of one of the multiple practices that contributed to the current state of said company in bankruptcy. When your dealers are competing against each other and not against other brands you are killing yourself. Especially when no one is buying your cars in the first place.
And yet they got billions and are failing anyway.
The billions were from GWB, who bailed them out on his next to last day in the White House, leaving another mess for someone else to clean up. The Obama Admin denied GM and Chryslars restructuring plans as not being strong enough, and sent them on their way to bankruptcy court.
Let’s see, it was nutty to allow them to go into bankruptcy when Republicans proposed it before we would give billions in loans, but it is a great idea when President Obama proposes it after sinking tens of billions of taxpayer money with tens of billions more on pledge.
I’ll take the nutty approach. It is the same result but saves us money and would have given us stronger companies at the end of the process.
Sorry, arthur, was away for a few…
smitty – did you ever change the battery or air filter or oil in the sebring?
Why do you think I described that one as “Bleah?”
The T&C and Dodge Grand Caravan are much, much better, believe me. I really didn’t want to swap the Sebring for another Chrysler, but the wife sold me on the necessity of a mini-van and I thought Honda/Toyota/Nissan were too expensive (plus, Honda and Nissan were ranked LOWER than Chrysler/Dodge for mechanical quality), so we went with T&C and were very happy. Do note that was the 2005 model, which, I think, was the first of the MAJOR redesign (it may have been the second year…but I am leaning on thinking it was the first). The redesign wasn’t just appearance, but a lot of under-hood redesign. It was a nice job, for once.
I feel awful for the people who work for the auto companies and the dealerships. It’s not funny when someone loses their job. The new jobless are paying for mistakes made by Chrysler and GM executives and it sucks.
I’ll take the nutty approach.
Oh, David A. Sometimes, you just don’t see the material you simply gift wrap for these ladies and others ( 😉 )
The real crappy thing with Chrysler (just put aside our thoughts on the product line, but focus on the company) can be traced back to when Deiter and company (Daimler) came in and pulled off the biggest legal-theft job in a long time. It was a terrible match to begin with, but they perisisted in their wanton need to force a square peg in a round hole. All they did was take a company finding itself on shaky legs and further hobbled it. They allowed the remains to go to a private investment group (Cerebus), headed by the guy who should have been in prison for his fraud while leading Home Depot years before. I think very few people didn’t see this coming with them. Cerebus barely could afford to acquire the hobbled mess, so there was no way innovation could have been added. I really have no idea what was Cerebus’ real intent with Chrysler. Given they could barely afford it to begin with and remained private, I just can’t wrap my brain around thinking this was a transaction with the intent to move the company forward.
Cerebus never put any money into Chrysler, either. I don’t know if investment would have helped (it might have been too late by then). I think there was a lot of speculating and gambling going on, frankly.
FSP wrote:
Including dealers in the top 2% in the nation?
If they are closing underperforming dealerships by region, and they have one that is performing in the top 2% and another in the same region that is in the top 1%, they would close the one that is underperforming relative to the other in the same region. That would be the 2% one.
FSP and others pushing this story are statistically ilnumerate.
“If they are closing underperforming dealerships by region, and they have one that is performing in the top 2% and another in the same region that is in the top 1%, they would close the one that is underperforming relative to the other in the same region.”
But that was not the case.
BTW, statistically ilnumerate? A-W-E-S-O-M-E. You can insult me anytime, A1.
But that was not the case.
But if the WH won’t release its criteria, then you have no idea how the decisions were made to close these dealerships, right? But if you know better produce your data — don’t bother if it is a wingnut site producing the same level of “statistics” as the one cherry picking his data.
The top 2% guy claimed he was #1 in his region. Plus, they’re not getting rid of somebody selling that many cars with any meritorious criteria.
Some guy claimed.
#1 in his region when few people are buying cars doesn’t exactly tell you much. And since you’ve no idea what the criteria is, you aren’t in a position to judge if it is meritorious.
Still waiting for you to claim that the 400 or so bankrupt dealerships this year have been unfairly put upon by the process too.
Dealerships have to be pruned back. GM has been doing something similar. How it can be a problem to cut back on unneeded capacity can be anything but a pretty decent (and hugely overdue) business decision is beyond me.
But I’m not looking to get any victim cred out of it, either.
“How it can be a problem to cut back on unneeded capacity can be anything but a pretty decent (and hugely overdue) business decision is beyond me.”
A business decision made by the government via secret criteria that produces results like cutting the exact percentage of minority-owned dealers it needed to keep the ratio of minority-owned dealers unchanged.
Sounds VERY merit-based to me.
I’m not criticizing the decision to cut dealers. But the decision of what dealers to cut was clearly not based on merit, and enough questions have been raised to suggest that the WH should release the criteria.
BTW, statistically ilnumerate? A-W-E-S-O-M-E. You can insult me anytime, A1.
Sorry, but it wasn’t meant as a personal insult. Statistical ilnumeracy is rampant and unfortunate. You happen to part of that large group. That is just the way it is.
By the way, if it weren’t for the government and taxpayers, ALL of the dealers would likely be closed.
But the decision of what dealers to cut was clearly not based on merit
You simply can’t prove that.
I can’t prove that rain comes from the sky, either.
And you haven’t answered my question. What is the statistical possibility that the % of minority-owned dealers would be the exact same after the cut as it was before the cut IF the cuts were merit-based?
Chrysler says that they chose the dealers to close.
And there’s criteria:
Chrysler said in the Reuters article that it made the decisions based on location, customer satisfaction and sales potential.
There’s more about centralized locations and accessibility too. Which looks like criteria too.
Hope you are enjoying your conspiracy theory. Perhaps Liz Allen will show up shortly to help you out.
And you haven’t answered my question. What is the statistical possibility that the % of minority-owned dealers would be the exact same after the cut as it was before the cut IF the cuts were merit-based?
You mean, you can’t work that out? Mr. Statistics?
It looks to me that Chrysler is answering questions about their decisions. Since they are the ones making the choices here, you might want to test out your conspiracy theories with them and get them to work out those odds for you.
Let us know what they say.
Sorry, your statistical ilnumereacy is showing again.
In fact, you can prove the statistical probability with very very low uncertainty that rain comes from the sky. The data set for that is huge and it is known.
My answer to your question is that neither you nor I can calculate the statistical probability that “that the % of minority-owned dealers would be the exact same” because we don’t have the data set.
Again. What is the statistical possibility that the % of minority-owned dealers would be the exact same after the cut as it was before the cut IF the cuts were merit-based?
The evidence continues to mount.
And U.S. Senators Claire McCaskill and Kit Bond don’t agree that there’s nothing here.
Dave,
More anecdotal evidence doesn’t justify the claims you and Ross are making.
And let ’em investigate. Then maybe we can both know.
Well, no, actually — there is no evidence. Just repeating the same stuff over and over again doesn’t count as evidence. And until that guy can figure out how to take a look at a control group, you might as well invest in reinforcements for your tinfoil. Because at this rate, you’ll be burning through alot of it.
For everyone else reading — we apparently have another bit of evidence that we are in the middle of Peak Wingnut. I’m thinking that this means that this story about repubs being punished by taking away their car dealerships (because that is exactly what they would have done to us! Boo!) is going to merge at some point with the Obama has no birth certificate story soon.
Anybody want to guess when this will happen? Take your guess (nearest day) and whoever gets closest gets a prize.
Wow – elections do have consequences.
Keep searching on finding that cloud to shake the ol fist at, buddy.
You’ll find one someday!
And if your gonna use something to support your point (and subsequently want us to take it seriously) don’t use a screed that starts with:
“The
dronesliberalsprogressives are seething over the scandal we’re calling Dealergate.About as clever as a turd in a bag, and as serious too!
Wingnuts only exist now to bother liberals. That seems to be their purpose these days. Hint to the wingnuts: we only find you amusing and mildly annoying. We don’t give a crap about the manufactured outrage of the day.
Teabags for everybody!
When’s the next Paupers for Princes whine session? July 4th?
Claire McCaskill = Wingnut.
Question of the Day:
Where were these guys when all the Iraq contracts went to GOP companies?
Troy Patterson FTW!
And that is an awfully good question, BTW.
Did they? Can you statistically prove it with full data and control subsets?
No? Then it didn’t happen.
Besides, when the government gives money to private companies, it’s just “stimulus.”
More conspiracy!
Lee Iacocca loses his pension and his lifetime supply of Chrysler cars.
Can you statistically prove it with full data and control subsets
You can stop digging now. We already got that you weren’t in any position to evaluate the statistics.
Well, can you?
We already got that you weren’t in any position to evaluate the statistics.
So you can’t. Understood.
You wouldn’t recognize it if you saw it anyway — why waste my time? I’m sure Mr. Ross has all that stuff covered for you and in a way you get to be all aggrieved and stuff.
I said understood. I continue to understand that the standards that you apply to me don’t apply to you.
Keep digging, dude.
How are you doing getting Chrysler to tell you how they justified closing minority-owned dealerships?
I don’t need to. It’s marvelously clear. As clear as this: the standards that you apply to me don’t apply to you.
You can have the last word. I’ve clearly made my case.
Has anybody noticed how many of FSP’s comments have to do with how FSP is being mistreated?
It is a huge percentage.
I wonder why he’s here if he’s so put upon.
I don’t know — but I’m disappointed that we won’t see the up close and personal grilling of he Chrysler folks over their closure criteria.
Being a victim is probably so much more fun.
Let’s use Doug Ross arguments to prove my case. Dick Cheney was given 22 million dollars when he left Halliburton to become VP. He gave the largest contract for post war Iraq rebuilding to….wait for it…Haliburton!
I’m sure it was all on the up and up though.
“I’m disappointed that we won’t see the up close and personal grilling of he Chrysler folks over their closure criteria.”
Me, too. The federal government won’t release the criteria.
But I’m sure it’s all on the up and up.
And you can treat me however you like. Just know that the tremendous hypocrisy of it all doesn’t go unnoticed.
Now you can have the last word. Unless I change my mind again.