Bob Cesca’s Awesome Health Care Post
Read the whole thing while I highlight some of my favorite parts.
While I spent a few moments of my holiday weekend revisiting the irony of anti-socialism protests taking place on socialized park land, it occurred to me that the proposed government-run public health insurance option probably won’t cost nearly as much as the CBO is suggesting.
Because clearly there won’t be any Republicans signing up for it.
I mean, no Republican would dare sign up for inexpensive, easily portable health insurance. Not when red, white and blue All American for-profit health insurance is available. After all, free market private health insurance will probably continue to be the more expensive option, so that must mean it’s the finest insurance, right? Expensive equals good, no? (No. More on that presently.)
And of course none of the Republicans or Blue Dogs in Congress are covered by a government health insurance plan. Except for all of them.
Hadn’t considered that. Guess we can cut 21% off the public plan since no self-respecting Republican would ever choose socialized medicine.
I find it hard to believe that you, Mr. and Mrs. Wingnut, would defiantly pay more for less reliable insurance if offered a better deal. To pay more for less would be outstandingly backwards. Palin backwards. “Quitter” equals “fighter” backwards.
The fact remains that the only downside to the public option is that it’s just too awesome. We don’t deserve anything that good. Simply put: it’s Medicare, but for anyone who wants it. And this is somehow a nightmare scenario — one that we must never be allowed to experience even though it would cost much less than our current system, it would cover everyone who wants it, and it would be accountable to the American people. This is somehow a terrible idea. Terrible to the private health insurance mafia, that is. They simply can’t allow you to have an affordable public option because they need your financial support. Face it, $1.4 million a day to lobby members of Congress isn’t cheap.
1.4 million a day? It’s sad to see an industry struggling to make ends meet.
We sometimes hear a similar argument from rednecks who outright refuse to own a “faggy” fuel efficient car even though they’re more affordable in nearly every way. But, you know, maybe I’m wrong and the ability to haul a cord of wood and to disguise their impotence with an optical illusion of enormous genitalia is worth the extra cash they’re borrowing from various credit card companies to pay for all of that Middle Eastern gasoline. It’s this brand of ignorance and defiance that’s holding us back in so many ways, be it in terms of healthcare or green industrial development or education. Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin and Fox News have convinced too many of us that “smart, free and affordable” is un-American — and that “oversized, unhealthy and expensive” is patriotic.
This last highlighted paragraph sums up what infuriates me most about Republicans – The blatant worshipping of stupidity; the way they moan about “failures” of public education only to turn around seconds later and sneer at someone with a Harvard degree. Talk about conflicted.
Tags: Health Care Reform
Jonathan Cohn with a must-read on health care policy in Sunday’s Boston Globe:
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/07/05/healthy_examples_plenty_of_countries_get_healthcare_right/
When you follow idealogy blindly you tend to get tangled up in canards like this.
You rail against SOCIALISM because well… it’s socialist! But really no one has any idea what that is, or whether it’s better than what we’re presently doing, or cheaper than what we’re currently doing, or if we’re basically already doing it (Medicare)… you get the idea.
It’s close-minded partisanship. BUT, I caution you… this blog has been equally guilty of closeminded partisanship. Tread lightly…
Here is one of my favorite parts: “And the Republicans are telling us that this is the best system ever, even though our infant mortality rate ranks 29th, our life expectancy ranks 42nd (so much for “pro life”) and our healthcare spending is the highest among industrialized nations.”
The Repubs (and Carper) lie! As on most issues where the public weal is the issue, the Repubs act like the bunch of elites that they are, with a good dose of hypocrisy thrown in for good measure since they themselves have a public option.
They are allowing themselves to be bribed by the $1.4 million a day lobbyists. And they give their party line with a straight face. They are an outright disgrace, and must be defeated soundly on this issue!
I think one problem Republicans have right now is they don’t really have a coherent ideology anymore. All it boils down to right now is “stuff I’m scared of” and “stuff I don’t like.”
Even their free market ideology is broken. It’s turned into corporate worship, so much that they will choose more expensive privatized offerings (think about Medicare Part D and student loans) which is just basically transfer of taxpayer money to corporations over cheaper public options. That’s not fiscal conservatism!
It’s turned into taxcuts = good, corporations = good, government = bad. I suspect many of them know that the public option for health care will be popular and Obama and the Democrats will get the credit for it. Is that why they’re fighting so hard against it? It’s tough to be the party of status quo when the country voted for change.
I think lifestyle choices have more to do with life expectancy numbers than healthcare does.
How can you “expect” to live long when you don’t take care of yourself.
UI – I agree with you, but let’s try to make sure we don’t turn into tax increases = good, corporation = bad and government = good. WEALTHY monied interests (left and right) are working very hard to keep us all fighting in a very little box. (This is why Obama and Clinton turn out to be “centerists”.) Question everything.
The public option healthcare coverage that Congress has is great. I find it interesting that the Dems want all the people to have the same option, whereas the Repubs want to hold it close to their vests. Their ideology on this issue is self-serving, when their job is to serve the people. But they could care less about the people.
h. – That is probably true. Then why is it a insult to be accused of eating argula and tofu? Cesca mentioned that above yes? ” ‘oversized, unhealthy and expensive’ is patriotic.”
True DG. I think proposals should be judged on their own merits in a pragmatic manner, not in an ideological manner.
Who gets insulted by being accused of leading a healthy lifestyle? I certainly don’t. Scrambled tofu rocks, but I’ll sub watercress for aurgula.
“this blog has been equally guilty of closeminded partisanship. ”
Bullshit. Partisan, often. Closeminded, very seldom.
h. the problem is that if you have been to Europe, you would know that they have their fat people and their smokers (lots of ’em). They live unhealthily, just like us.
Thanks, Geezer.
It looks to me like Liberals really don’t know who Conservatives are and Conservatives like me probably don’t know who you are.
Glenn Beck, just like myself would be happy to drive in an innovative, efficient, fuel cell vehicle as long as it meets our needs. If it can’t go over 65, if it doesn’t have the seating, storage, or towing capacity that we need than we don’t want it.
I think it is brilliant that Ford came up with the Fusion hybrid. It has the best mileage in its class. The driving test where they did where they got over 70 miles per gallon using fuel saving techniques was impressive, but even the regular 40+ mpg is great. If I could afford a new car today I would buy one in a heartbeat. I only wish they came out with it sooner. Glenn Beck was and still is a fan of the Chevy Volt concept car, even though he is not a fan of what is happening with the corporation right now.
When our corporations stop focusing on government fuel standards, but rather focus on being smart and innovative they can do impressive things and they will breeze past the standards that the governement wants to wrap around their necks like a noose. Unfortunatly they were slothful for too long so they bear much of the responsibility for what our government is attempting to do right now with Cap and Trade and other regulations.
h. – I don’t get insulted either, but I believe it is the standard hayseed country rube insult for liberal east coast elites (Kerry, Obama, etc.).
Geezer- Point taken, but I think there is a reasonable argument to be made that partisan is closeminded. If you always take the “liberal” position are you open minded? But I see what you are driving at. Fair enough.
“When our corporations stop focusing on government fuel standards, but rather focus on being smart and innovative they can do impressive things and they will breeze past the standards that the governement wants to wrap around their necks like a noose.”
Europe’s auto fleet mpg is 42. Didn’t bankrupt them. I think you, like your pal Mr. Beck, are confusing “need” and “want.”
Geezer hit the nail on the head. The issue is that some seems to WANT everything. They feel entitled to make no compromises. Towing, what the fuck are you towing? European families drive clean diesel station wagons that get great mileage.
This is no low calorie bacon double cheeseburger. Just stop eating the goddamn thing.
“If it can’t go over 65, if it doesn’t have the seating, storage, or towing capacity that we need than we don’t want it.”
First of all, most places don’t have speed limits over 65, so that shouldn’t be a consideration (nevermind the fact that hybrid cars can go faster than that).
Second, how often do you really ‘need’ the capacity for 7-9 person seating? Or, for that matter, towing? Much like the needs of suburbanites for SUV’s: none at all. I don’t think that driving from home to the grocery store includes a need for four wheel drive or 16 inches of ground clearance. That’s not need. That is however the typical American attitude: bigger is always better (bigger, more expensive, less efficient…. seems that we continue on the same theme).
Additionally, lets not all cheer Ford on for their ‘development’ of hybrid vehicles. Purchasing technology that was designed in and is manufactured in Japan does not qualify as development. At least Chrysler and GM got together to actually develop their own technology, rather than saying America can’t do it, so lets buy it from the people who can.
If I wan’t it, why can’t I have it?
Maybe we should redefine what’s meant by entitlement reform.
I suggest that in all threads covering this year’s health care reform we replace the use of ‘Tom Carper’ and ‘Republicans’ with ‘Tom Carper and the Republicans’.
If it can’t go over 65, if it doesn’t have the seating, storage, or towing capacity that we need than we don’t want it.
So don’t buy it. Go buy the truck you want. What’s the problem?
Perry points out this part:
And the Republicans are telling us that this is the best system ever, even though our infant mortality rate ranks 29th, our life expectancy ranks 42nd (so much for “pro life”) and our healthcare spending is the highest among industrialized nations.
And their problem is that everyone who has sat on the phone the better part of the day trying to get their insurance company to pay a premium already know this to be untrue. Everyone who has been turned down for a procedure that your doctor told you you should have, already knows this to be untrue. There are many Americans who are well aware that they are one major illness (their own or a child) away from financial ruin. There is nothing best system ever about any of that and why repubs don’t get much credibility on this issue.
the car component of this thread highlights the difference between Liberals and Conservatives.
The libs are happy to tell everyone what they do and don’t need, more than tell (nag) they want to legislate.
Not exactly. If you need an SUV, then get an SUV. Don’t bitch and complain about gas prices, the inability to park the thing or the loss of the former (I hope) tax subsidies to get one. If you have enough money to get what you want, then you should pay its true costs. No one is legislating away SUVs.
cassy,
there are/were no tax subsidies for SUV’s.
there was rule change to permit accelerated depreciation for bussines vehicles (and libs wined “but that includes evil suv’s)
there was and may still be a direct tax rebate for buying a hybrid.
reread anon’s , Dorian’s and DC’s comments. all are happy to tell Tim what he needs.
I don’t count myself in the GOP crowd who opposes health care reform but the public option is clearly not the way to go.
There are two examples of government administered health care, Medicaid and Medicare and they are both well intentioned but are laden with debt and thousands of pages of regulations.
Take a look:http://delawarerepublican.wordpress.com/drtv/
The public option will only be viable if there are taxpayer subsidies and lower provider payments.
Obama had wasted a great opportunity by handing the details off to Congress which is too bad. He is 15 days away from losing his only chance to get anything done.
Mike Protack
I seem to remember something about a big tax write-off for Hummers. I don’t have time to look it up now – I’m off to help the economy by going out to dinner!
Pandora, you are remembering the liberal spin on the accelerated derpeciation allowance.
it covered priuses and smart cars and hondas and mercedes and F250 superduty 4×4’s and hummers
oops I mis-spoke, it did not cover Priuses and hondas etc
the accelerated depreciation was for heavy vehicles only and yes, Hummers were heavey enough to qualify as were all fullsize suv’s and medium and heavy trucks. The law allowed bonus depreciation in the first year.
The law allowed bonus depreciation in the first year
Which counts as a subsidy.
And lots of folks are happy to tell people what they need — think of wingnuts telling gay people that they don’t need the same rights as everyone else — but no one here is working to mandate that everyone drive a Prius.
Tell us Jason when and what countries did you visit in Europe (where single payer is the ONLY health care plan). You say they have “fat people and people who smoke”! Wow! Do you have any idea how stupid those remarks are?
Ask any american citizen living in any of the single payer countries what they believe? Did any of you see SICKO? We are not 42nd in the world who has the worst health care, we are 47th, behind Cuba and Costa Rica.
For profit health care has been committing a WAR against american citizens since Richard Nixon installed it.
And here we have the lone repuke Mike Protack who tried to have a “universal health care plan” for Delaware~~~but now is opposed. Hypocrisy reigns in Delaware.
None of these health care plans will cover mental or dental, vision, or anything else. How stupid do you have to believe that spending one trillion on just medical care while not covering everything else is sane!
The repukes and the blue dogs (who are really repukes), are exposing themselves as the biggest receivers of the millions of dollars they get in campaign contributions to make sure there never really ever will be a “public option”, that is cost effective and affordable to our citizens.
Single payer will still be here, when the Obama, demorat plan fails, when the country is even more broke than it is today! The action is not at the federal level…its in the states.
Cassandra_m,
I agree there is no mandate to make everyone drive a Prius. The mandate is to make every vehicle like a Prius.
Different people have different needs. The vast majority of them won’t care if a car has a fuel cell, is a hybrid, or runs on solar power as long as it meets their needs. I still know families with 7+ members. I know people that have boats they need to haul, and riding lawnmowers, and lots of other things. Those things don’t fit in a Prius or a station wagon.
And as far as DC’s comments about driving over 65, maybe one day I’ll meet you on route one but so far I haven’t seen anyone doing 65mph there unless they are slowing down for the tolls. Good or bad, the reality is people are doing well over 65 mph, on the highway and I don’t think all of them are Republicans trying to destroy the world with carbon emissions. Judging by the bumper stickers I have seen on many of those cars I know they aren’t.
The mandate is to make every vehicle like a Prius.
There is no mandate for all cars and trucks to get almost 50mph.
None.
Yes we need reform–but h. in #5 says what America won’t listen to–but demands–You MUST pay for my unhealthy choices and lifestyle, because I do expect to live long.
Translation: Just give me one of those insulin pumps, so I can adjust as I go as I eat as I go.
Translation: Just give me a Bi-pap machine at night to prevent sleep apnea, because losing the 20 pounds, and sleeping on 3 pillows I don’t want to do.
Translation: I will only smoke when the oxygen is off.
Translation: Do whatever it takes to get me pregnant, just make sure the baby is within normal limits.
This country has a whole lot of work to do to define healthcare, before it ever gets to the care, cost and consideration piece. And of course….everyone thinks they are the exception.
“The law allowed bonus depreciation in the first year
Which counts as a subsidy”
only because you don’t understand accounting
I certainly do — otherwise why accelerate and increase the depreciation deduction? Equipment depreciation is a subsidy for businesses — and there is a reason why you don’t get one on your family mini-van.
Joanne is a fan of medical care rationing!
Cassy,
thanks for confirming
Delighted to have asked you a question you couldn’t answer!
The government can’t guard its own buildings, yet you think they can run a national health plan?
The ‘stimulus’ will work “within weeks” (that was from February). Yeah, and GM (Government Motors) will be successful (sort of like French-run Peugeot….their cars are everywhere).
um, Cassy, where’s the question mark?
In #37.
the acceleration allows the business to recognize the cost of the vehicle sooner and over a shorter time.
The benefit you gain in the first year you loose in later years.
businesses depreciate capital goods to recognize the their expense over time. Depreciation isn’t a subisdy, it is an IRS mandated way of accounting for the cost of capital goods.
an IRS mandated way of…
cool, the edit feature works!
IRS mandated way of accounting for the cost of capital goods.
IOW, a subsidy. These businesses get reimbursed the cost or some portion of their costs via the depreciation schedules from taxpayers. As a reduction in the amount of taxes paid.
Cass,
What a warped and twisted view of cost accounting that is. There is no reasonable way that allowing capital goods costs to be charged against income to calculate profit for taxation is a subsidy. I suppose a grocery store should have to pay taxes on sales rather then accounting for the cost of the goods being sold, anything else would be an unfair subsidy.
A subsidy is when the government covers half the price of an electric car noone would otherwise buy.
A subsidy is when the government hands 8500 to the seller of a house just because the buyer is a first timer.
AMERICA’S NATIONAL HEALTHCARE EMERGENCY!
It’s official. America and the World are now in a GLOBAL PANDEMIC. A World EPIDEMIC with potential catastrophic consequences for ALL of the American people. The first PANDEMIC in 41 years. And WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES will have to face this PANDEMIC with the 37th worst quality of healthcare in the developed World.
STAND READY AMERICA TO SEIZE CONTROL OF YOUR NATIONAL HEALTHCARE SYSTEM.
We spend over twice as much of our GDP on healthcare as any other country in the World. And Individual American spend about ten times as much out of pocket on healthcare as any other people in the World. All because of GREED! And the PRIVATE FOR PROFIT healthcare system in America.
And while all this is going on, some members of congress seem mostly concern about how to protect the corporate PROFITS! of our GREED DRIVEN, PRIVATE FOR PROFIT NATIONAL DISGRACE. A PRIVATE FOR PROFIT DISGRACE that is in fact, totally valueless to the public health. And a detriment to national security, public safety, and the public health.
Progressive democrats the Tri-Caucus and others should stand firm in their demand for a robust public option for all Americans, with all of the minimum requirements progressive democrats demanded. If congress can not pass a robust public option with at least 51 votes and all robust minimum requirements, congress should immediately move to scrap healthcare reform and request that President Obama declare a state of NATIONAL HEALTHCARE EMERGENCY! Seizing and replacing all PRIVATE FOR PROFIT health insurance plans with the immediate implementation of National Healthcare for all Americans under the provisions of HR676 (A Single-payer National Healthcare Plan For All).
Coverage can begin immediately through our current medicare system. With immediate expansion through recruitment of displaced workers from the canceled private sector insurance industry. Funding can also begin immediately by substitution of payroll deductions for private insurance plans with payroll deductions for the national healthcare plan. This is what the vast majority of the American people want. And this is what all objective experts unanimously agree would be the best, and most cost effective for the American people and our economy.
In Mexico on average people who received medical care for A-H1N1 (Swine Flu) with in 3 days survived. People who did not receive medical care until 7 days or more died. This has been the same results in the US. But 50 million Americans don’t even have any healthcare coverage. And at least 200 million of you with insurance could not get in to see your private insurance plans doctors in 2 or 3 days, even if your life depended on it. WHICH IT DOES!
If President Obama has to declare a NATIONAL STATE OF EMERGENCY to rescue the American people from our healthcare crisis, he will need all the sustained support you can give him. STICK WITH HIM! He’s doing a brilliant job.
THIS IS THE BIG ONE!
THE BATTLE OF GOOD Vs EVIL!
Join the fight.
Contact congress and your representatives NOW! AND SPREAD THE WORD!
God Bless You
Jacksmith – WORKING CLASS
Another idiotic cut and paste manifesto. Without national healthcare we are all GOING TO DIE FROM SWINE FLU! Fire all the insurance workers and put em on the plan. Plenty to go around don’t you worry now. Seize their assets, seize their contracts, seize them now !!!
A subsidy is when the government covers half the price of an electric car noone would otherwise buy… A subsidy is when the government hands 8500 to the seller of a house just because the buyer is a first timer.
That is called public policy. It is good.
allowing capital goods costs to be charged against income to calculate profit for taxation is a subsidy
We are taking about the cost of business equipment — not retail items that get sold to a consumer. And that grocery store gets depreciation on its shelving — which reduces the tax bill owed. A subsidy. Not unlike the mortgage tax deduction. Or any other tax credit or deduction.
No it isn’t called “public policy” it is called a government handout and it sure as hell ain’t good.
Writing off capital equipment over time is in the governments interest, business would rather write it off right away. There is no subsidy in either case, that is just silly. Artificially raising prices of selected items (cars, houses, etc) by handing out government checks to cover the difference between the perceived value of and item and what people are willing to pay is a subsidy and amount to theft from the public treasury.
Artificially raising prices of selected items (cars, houses, etc) by handing out government checks to cover the difference between the perceived value of and item and what people are willing to pay is a subsidy and amount to theft from the public treasury.
The house and car subsidies are actually implemented as tax credits, i.e, TAX CUTS.
Accelerated depreciation — depreciation of any kind is also implemented as TAX CUTS which still amounts to a subsidy for business.
Another FAIL from the so-called party of business.
No the house credit is no longer a tax credit, I know it is hard to keep up with the changes they are making in the scam they are running. The tax credit only helped those who could already afford the house – not exactly the target they had in mind I guess. It worked out great the last time they set up a structure that allowed those who cannot afford to buy a house to do so. They are now giving the money out up front at closing. If you want to fix jobs there are only two kinds of employers – the gov and business. The higher the percentage of business employment vs govt employment the better off we will be. Money in the hands of business not government is what will fix out economy. Calling depreciation a subsidy is absurd, accelerated or not.
Yes, see, this is when you know they haven’t a single clue about what they are arguing — they fall back on the platitudes that are not exactly true, not exactly coherent, and a repeat of the same failed ideas that got us here in the first place.
If the government gives you a tax cut for buying or doing something — it is a subsidy. By definition.
So the “subsidy” to allow companies to buy vehicle of their choice to help the auto companies recover is bad but the subsidy to help sell cars that cost more than anyone is willing to spend but are ‘more earth friendly’ is good. Rewarding unproductive activity is your kind of subsidy I guess. See now I understand, it is so much clearer now.
Dear DeLib–Above posters like jacksmith translate to jackass, when using his overinflated examples (in this case swine flu), to any reader of minimally informed knowledge. I know you don’t censor, but I do wish UI or Cass would have had a crack at the crackpot, to defend some honor of what your blog can many times reasonably argue a sound position. Just a heads up from one on the other side who lives daily hearing, reading, and regretting some of the nonsense and ill-informed commentary delivered from this side of the fence.
“See now I understand, it is so much clearer now.”
Good. Now go take your nap before your lunchtime bottle.
Dear innocent Joanne… jacksmith is a cut and paste troll. No need to argue.
Dear anon–you mean people have time to do that?
Shouldn’t they stick to scrapbooking? Thanks..Joanne
So the “subsidy” to allow companies to buy vehicle of their choice to help the auto companies recover is bad but the subsidy to help sell cars that cost more than anyone is willing to spend but are ‘more earth friendly’ is good.
More of the incoherence again. I certainly never said any of this — just have been insisting on a point about subsidies for SUVs. Besides, there is no subsidy for cars that cost more than anyone is willing to spend.
It’s OK tho — we already know you haven’t a clue as to what you are talking about. Which is what happens when your radio tells you what to think.
Joanne, we get more than our fair share of cut and paste trolls. Protack comes to mind as another one. Jacksmith has a few good points, but when he invokes the sine flu we all pretty much switched off. I think.
Besides, there is no subsidy for cars that cost more than anyone is willing to spend.
Check out the plans for the $42,000 Chevy volt and the government subsidies to reduce it to a price someone might buy.
Link, please, to information that the government is set to provide a subsidy to the Chevy Volt.
Check out the plans for the $42,000 Chevy volt and the government subsidies to reduce it to a price someone might buy.
That is how we got national electric service, suburban housing, and the Internet.
cass,
here you go – this is just one of many just do a search
http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor/2008/11/gms-chevy-volt-has-already-garnered-subsidies-despite-unprofitable-expectations.html
This is from the Bailout Bill back in October — and provides a subsidy for:
Tax credits for the purchase of plug-in hybrid electric vehicles. (Earlier post.) The credit is a base $2,500 plus $417 for each kWh of battery pack capacity in excess of 4 kWh, to a maximum of $7,500 for light-duty vehicles; $10,000 for vehicles with gross vehicle weights of more than 10,000 but less than 14,000 pounds; $12,500 for vehicles with a GVW of more than 14,000 but less than 26,000 pounds; and $15,000 for any vehicle with a GVW of more than 26,000 pounds.
The Volt is qualified for that right now, others maybe and this subsidy begins to phase out after 250K PHEVs are sold. But, HEY! This bill also provides for additional subsidies for additional categories of celluosic ethanol, biodeisel, extensions of all kids of tax credits (subsidies) for other fuels and refineries, and all kinds of other alternate fuel initiatives. So it isn’t just a subsidy to a car that people couldn’t afford, it is a subsidy to a whole industry that the government wants to grow. Go figure.
You are right it isn’t just a subsidy for an overpriced car, it is a subsidy for an overpriced industry. That makes it much better.
It is a subsidy for an industry we badly need. Plenty of other countries are subsidizing not only alternative energy installations, but research too. The countries with the better technologies and solutions get to sell that to everyone else. But we’ll count you as one of those who thinks that sending a river of money to the Middle East — to lots of people who would use that money against us — is a good idea. The path to energy security looks just like this.
We have plenty of energy resources in this country if congress would let us use them. If the Electric car were affordable and reasonably functional it would not take a subsidy to sell one. They are neither and government checks just steal from the treasure to support another fools errand.
By that reasoning, we don’t need to provide taxpayer subsidies for drilling , mining or nuclear efforts, right? Because if these were affordable and/or reasonably functional it would not take subsidy to make this happen — the markets would take care of it, yes?
Absolutely correct, now you are getting it.
So then we are back to depreciation deductions or credits — if said business actually needed a piece of equipment, can use it for operations and can allocate the cost of that equipment to some portion of client cost, it seems to me that the market has taken care of the costs of that equipment. Special tax treatments — subsidies — aren’t needed, much less need acceleration. Because the markets will take care of your costs for equipment.
The depreciation reflects the ‘cost’ of the equipment deteriorating over time. This is a real cost and is and has been accounted for as such.
Actually, no. Depreciation is just another way to recover the cost of equipment. This time via the tax code — rather than by allocating it to your overhead or projects for recovery.
Which, BTW, you can still do if you are depreciating it. Double-dipping to recover costs.
Admit it you are just being silly now.
Try thinking of it this way, if a company raises its prices to account for the depreciation and is not able to account for the cost of equipment anywhere then they are going to have a higher calculated profit and pay more taxes than should be due.
Now you are being silly — and clearly have no idea how this works. But this seems to be part and parcel for the so-called party of business. I do this in my day job for million dollar + pieces of equipment and you better believe there is double dipping — the reduction in taxes from the gov and recovery of (at least some) costs from customers.
If you want to defend the subsidy for cost recovery then do that when you’ve actually gotten how this works. Until then the only thing you are doing is trying to pretend that there are no tax subsidies for equipment purchases by business — when the government clearly does this in order to get businesses to buy more equipment.
When the company raises its prices to cover the costs of equipment then they pay tax on that revenue, so it isn’t double dipping. Besides what they spend on the equipment is income to the selling company and is taxed there.
Besides what they spend on the equipment is income to the selling company and is taxed there.
Not entirely, if not at all, if they are taking the deprecation deductions or credits.
Ok lets look at it like this. I think they should be able to write off the equipment the day they buy it as an expense. If/when they sell it they report the revenue. Anything short of that is really a loan to the government at no interest.