UPDATED: Conservatives Want Government Out Of Our Health Care… Except When They Don’t
Via HuffPo:
On July 13, Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer signed into law a measure that establishes–among other restrictions on access to sexual and reproductive health services–an in-person counseling requirement and a 24-hour waiting period before a woman can obtain an abortion. Proponents of the new law claim that it helps inform women’s abortion decisions. In truth, however, this distortion of the informed consent process only hinders access to abortion services.
Hmmm… Proponents of the new law claim that it helps inform women’s abortion decisions? Now, I don’t buy that for a minute. In fact, the only way someone can justify this position is if they believe women are incapable of reaching decisions on their own – as in women are too stupid to think for themselves. That said, I do find the “let’s help them make an informed decision” argument quite fascinating since Conservatives/Republicans have taken the exact opposite stance when it comes to informing people about living wills.
What’s also predictable is how the GOP tosses out its keep government out of our health care in favor of keep government out of our health care… except for when We want it in our health care. This is, after all, the party of Terri Schiavo.
So which is it? And I know this is a tough question for Republicans, since consistency isn’t their strong suit.
UPDATE: So much for their “free market” ideals. Now they want to ban private insurers from paying for abortions.
Well, I suppose we should have known. Apparently the big holdup with Max Baucus’s Finance Committee bill is… abortion. (Yeah, I wondered what the hell that has to do with finance, too.)
But wait, it gets better! The Senate Republicans not only demand that abortions not be paid for with public funds (something already forbidden by the Hyde Amendment), they want to prevent private insurance plans from paying for them, too.
(h/t crooks and liars)
Tags: Abortion, Health Care
I wonder if we should have a 24 hr. waiting period before dispensing Viagra?
I hate to say this, because I am pro-choice and remain so… but if we can require a waiting period to buy a gun, we can require a waiting period for abortions.
And if we can require counseling for your living will, we can require counseling about abortions.
It’s not that women are stupid…. it’s that (and I hate to say this too) pro-lifers are correct that there are too many optional abortions. That’s where my agreement with them ends though.
That said, I would not like to see the counseling processed hijacked by the pro-lifers or the churches. I’d like to see the counseling provided by the medical provider, basically just presenting a balanced list of all the options, including adoption and support options for single parenthood. Planned Parenthood offers this already.
But, the day you learn you are pregnant should not be the day you start thinking about your options. All young girls should be taught to think about what they would do, so they will have some basis for deciding when the day comes. Not unlike a living will. If we are going to require counseling about pregnancy options, it should occur in sex education class every year, as well as at home with the parents.
How about informed consent and a two day waiting period for the purchase of condoms?
But just for men.
Good one Joanne!
anon,
The reason we shouldn’t have waiting periods is because getting an abortion is not like buying a gun. It’s a medical procedure and many times people have to take time off of work and walk a gauntlet of angry protestors. Now they will have to do this twice, plus be treated like they are children who don’t know what they’re doing.
But the point is the hypocracy of the republican argument. Remember the outrage from neocons over the waiting period for guns. The argument over less government in our lives only applies to principles they champion. Same with state’s right. Only when convenient. They are for restrictions on abortions but against decriminalizing marijuana on the state level. It is one or the other. That is the definition of a hypocrite, though really they use these arguments for convenience sake only. They don’t actually believe in the principle and use only when it helps advance a cause.
I wonder if we should have a 24 hr. waiting period before dispensing Viagra?
We already do. Guys, call your doctor and tell him you want some Viagra, or any prescription drug for that matter. He’ll ask you to come in for a visit. Let us know if you get your prescription filled quicker than 24 hours from your phone call.
At your next doctors appointment bring up that you think that “Viagra might be right for you” and see if you walk out of the office with a sample or a prescription. I suspect that he won’t ask you to come back tomorrow after you have thought about whether you really want it.
I think any informed consent law should be coupled with an options education requirement in the schools. And probably also increased access to contraception. If not, no deal.
First off–you people (had to say that…help me UI:)!!!!), act like a pregnant girl walks in–voila–is told she is pregnant, and then put on the conveyor belt for THE “abortion”. Can I dial in a lil’ reality?
Said girl has been ANGUISHING she may be pregnant–has already decided there is NO WAY she is going thru with a pregnancy, goes to a clinic or health provider to confirm pregnancy, and set up procedure or be directed to resource. There is no reason why she needs to go home and think, worry, vomit, examine, guilt, or discuss her decision to have an abortion. She is making a decision off of a decision. Do we make people “contemplate” seeking treatment for STDs? or addiction? or high fat diets leading to heart disease? Telling them to go home and think for 24 hours? NO. The people involved are patient and doctor. The law is invited to keep it safe. God may be invited to keep it moral. But I say may….because that’s the nation we have decided to become, and that’s the decision the individual is free to make. We all may have a different “guest” list, and we need to respect that.
JC – You live below the canal, so you can get away with saying “y’all”
anon at 11:29–you don’t phone in your abortion either. You show up in person. Just like your first time Viagra script. Other than that, most urologists I know will do refills over the phone for up to about 6 months to a year.
If I ever say y’all, please round me up……..and call DelDem
Perfectly stated, Joanne. Honestly, sometimes people act like a pregnant woman happens past an abortion clinic and thinks, “Wow, I’m going to have one of those. I wasn’t going to, but now that I see the sign in the window…” It’s beyond insulting.
Just like shoes Pandora, just like shoes…maybe it is our fault :).
Or… just like power tools, cars and boats! 😉
hmmm… a boat… Good idea…
Hold on LG–I’ll get you a script for Viagra, and hand it off to you on Saturday–that’s at least 24 hours isn’t it? And Viagra’s cheaper.
Joanne… There are lots of stressful medical procedures that are never done on the same day.
That said, I’ll have to re-examine my position about a waiting period. I am not ignorant of what women go through or how the clinics work.
I would feel sick if a waiting period law were waved around triumphantly by pro-lifers. I guess they already are doing that.
Exactly anon–but to be told your signature and approval CAN’T EVEN be accepted prior to 24 hours is ludicrous. Believe me, I’m no activist on either side of this, except the private decision side, and what the courts ruled decades ago. Maybe that makes me Pro-Choice…yes, personal, private,choice.
And the point you make about stressful procedures…it is customary when a person is given a BIG C diagnosis, all these options, and consents are thrown their way to move-move-move in what may seem a frenzied manner at the same time they have just been given a diagnosis. They are absolutely dazed. Signatures are secured from them, and considered valid– albeit, they can change their minds, when they go home and think and talk about things. But a girl (woman) most likely, KNOWINGLY going into her provider with her situation is dissed for 24 hours? Where’s the basis there?
Anon, and everyone, seems to miss the whole point of this post. The point is you critics of healthcare reform are all hypocrites. You say you do not want the government involved in your healthcare decisions, yet you are very eager to have the government heavily involved in abortion and reproductive issues. Indeed, you all were so eager to have all levels of government intervene in the Terri Schiavo matter back in 2005.
You are all for government involvement in healthcare when it suits you politically.
Hold on DelDem. I don’t want ANY government involvement in healthcare when it suits me politically. Only when it suits me personally–and right now, I am looking at very dismal proposals, no matter which political side puts it forth. They are all ignorant of the realities of US and global healthcare, and I have had enough.
Well, both sides seem to feel that abortion is a special procedure that needs the law to either protect it or restrict it.
I am attracted to the hands-off libertarian approach to abortion; as long as it’s legal, it’s just another private medical procedure.
But then, I also subscribe to “legal, safe, and rare.” Maybe the way forward is to keep the government out of the abortions themselves, but to require far more government support for education, prevention, contraception, and adoption/parenting support.
Let me offer a few facts. The government is in health care big time, Medicaid and Medicare close to 40% of all dollars and Planned Parenthood gets tens of millions of tax dollars.
The risk of too much government influence is what you see, programs structured to bankrupt states and the country. Both programs have thousands of pages of regulations and are unviable for the future.
The old viagra/abortion collusion. Two different items which only uninformed people would group together.
A waiting period does not prevent anyone from having anything. Years ago when I had a vasectomy I went to the Doctor with my mind made up and was ready to get snipped that week. He was adamant I ask myself a few basic questions over and over. At the end of the week I could schedule for next week but not before then.
Safe,legal and rare? In NYC 50% of live births are destroyed and in Delaware about 27%. That incidence rate is hardly rare.
Mike Protack
There shouldn’t be waiting periods for buying guns, having abortions etc. The government should not require waiting periods for abortions. It’s either your choice or it’s not.
If your doctor wants to impose a waiting period that’s entirely different, but that’s between you and the doctor. The government shouldn’t be interfering in that personal choice (be it buying a gun or getting an abortion)
Right, I get it Del Dem. The debate over health care by the Republicans has been breath-takingly dishonest and disheartening. However, I strongly object to the analogy that getting an abortion is like getting a gun. That really bothered me.
Well said, Joanne. I was also going to suggest ya’ll, but I guess that won’t work. I’d probably just replace “you people” with something like “the critics of X” or the “supporters of X” or something similar.
However, I strongly object to the analogy that getting an abortion is like getting a gun. That really bothered me.
On the highest conceptual level, both are important decisions that require some thought. Nobody is pushing the comparison further than that and claiming any further equivalence, which I agree would be offensive. Don’t worry, I can probably think of more reasons than you why the two things are different.
In both New York City and Delaware, abortion rates look high because both are serving nearby areas (the rest of NYState in NYC, Pennsylvania in Delaware) where abortions are harder to get.
REad carefully what Skyboy says about abortion. That’s his original wingnut issue, and you’ll notice that he relies not on honest information but inflammatory rhetoric. The “moderate” pose he adopts for most discussions is exactly that.
Geezer,
I usually just scroll by what he posts.
What freakin’ hypocrites. Now Republican Senators want to stand in the relationship with the doctor, patient and insurance bureaucrat. Somebody please explain to me again why we’re negotiating with Republicans.