It’s Worse Than That, It’s Dead Jim
Well Nancy Pelosi has just come out to say that there aren’t enough votes for the Senate bill in the House. So the Kill the Bill people have won. I am sure that Jane Hamsher is sitting on a barstool next to Jim DeMint slapping each other on the back about how much they just F’ed up Obama’s presidency. I hear that David Anderson and A1 will be getting together for milk and cookies later.
For all of you with pre-existing conditions or vulnerable to recission, sorry. For those of you that don’t have insurance, best of luck. Take lots of vitamin C and don’t call in the morning.
Tags: Health Care Reform, Nancy Pelosi
It was misplayed by Obama, LG. The buck stops in the White House.
There will always be A1s and Hamshers willing to attack from the left. Their impact is negligible, and anyway they are a symptom not a cause.
This breaks my heart. It’s also political suicide (if true – I’m with Josh (TPM) that everyone should read her entire statement) unless someone can tell me how Dems justify to voters the loss of an entire year, justify scrapping something they will still own – since they already voted for it!
Great victory for the status quo. I’m anxiously awaiting the game plan for producing and enacting that new and improved bill from the left “kill the billers.” Surely, they have a plan B.
Bullshit. The Jane Hamshers are providing cover fire for the DeMints. I am ready to clean house. LIEberman should be stripped of his chairmanships for starters and there should be a vote of no confidence in Harry Reid.
These assholes, assisted by a clearly obstructionist Republican party, have ensured that American citizens will be bankrupted and die at the hands of our current healthcare system. There is blood on their hands.
Pandora – there is no plan B. This is done.
It is time to move on to other issues and we should dock the pay of every freakin’ one of them for the past 6 months, since they haven’t done anything.
All you folks who thought we could “fix it later” – well, it’s later. Why surrender now? Why can’t we start applying patches to the health care system incrementally, with or without the Senate bill?
Maybe the “Don’t Sell Us Out To The Insurance Industry” people have won.
Maybe the “Fix It Now” people have won.
Maybe the “Howard Dean” Democrats have defeated the Obama/LIEberman democrats.
Maybe the majority of Americans who want real HCR and know that this bill was a sham won.
Maybe Obama has “F’ed up” his own Presidency.
The only decent thing left in the Senate bill was pre-existing conditions, recission, and subsidies. Recission and pre-existing can be written into new smaller bills, and probably passed easily. If not we can run against Repubs who vote against it.
The loss of the subsidies can be mitigated in part by incrementally expanding things like Medicaid and S-CHIP, and increased funding of community clinics.
Don’t forget, the Senate bill exempted self-insured coverage (companies who finance their own health care rather than contract through an insurance company). That’s 100 million Americans not covered by the bill.
There is nothing to fix. There is no healthcare reform to fix. The entrenched interests of pharma and the insurance industry have a model to win. They know now that the Dems have no spine, and that the leftists won’t accept anything less than 100%.
I have received an anonymous tip that insurance companies have had staff meetings with the rank and file declaring the whole thing dead. We might get standardized forms, we might get a ban on recissions, we might get pre-existing conditions reform. But all of these will drive prices up without the other reforms.
In short, we are screwed. Don’t get sick, and if you do, die quickly.
No, A1, you have won a battle and cost us a war. I’ll be sure to get the names of the people that appreciate your efforts the next time I am sitting in an overcrowded emergency room.
Wanna know what’s “f’ed up?” The entire Democratic Party. And isn’t their timing just precious. Lose one election and run for the hills.
But, hey A1, you won. So lead us? And I’m so serious about this. I worked to fight for this bill, and it looks like I lost. You, and your side won, for which I will hold you accountable. So please tell me what you guys plan to do… and, just like you, I expect results.
Jane Hamshire “F’ed up” Obama’s presidency? You’re still crackin’ me up, Geek.
But all of these will drive prices up without the other reforms.
Like what other reforms? I think you are overestimating what was in the Senate bill. There was no cost control.
The republicans had no power to obstruct. It’s all on your party. They had the 60 votes to get it done. They did not. Period.
You can spin it anyway you want, but the only thing people will remember is that an impotent democratic house majority and a filibuster proof democratic senate couldn’t get it done.
The only thing the democrats have shown the American people the past year is that they are incapable of governing.
OMG, h. is correct.
Don’t get pissed at the House. Their bill had cost control. Be pissed at the people who opposed the House bill.
pandora, my side didn’t win. My side – our side – lost when the public option was stripped from the bill. I want real HCR and the LIEberman Senate bill wasn’t real HCR.
You might actually hold Obama responsible, as I do. He is the one that capitulated and reneged on his campaign promises of a public option and not taxing health insurance benefits. And then he lied about it.
Listen to Howard Dean M.D. on what the Dems should do:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#34946241
Stop blaming me or others who are demanding real HCR for Obama’s incompetent and dishonest leadership.
There was a requirement that a substantial portion of their expenses be for direct patient care, not profits and administration.
By the way, stop it with the dems had 60 votes in the Senate. They have a 60 vote caucus that has 58 dem party members. And one of the caucus members campaigned for McInsane.
H. is not right. Neither is A1. the Republicans (and I include LIEberman in this) and the A1’s said that it was their way or the highway. There was no middle ground, there was no compromise, there was no agreement. Howard Dean can go get himself elected if he wants to have a say in this thing. He is a doctor and a former Governor. As a doctor, he didn’t accept medicare patients and as a Governor, he was a centrist. The new Howard Dean (the one that ran for President) may speak truth to power, but he didn’t govern that way.
It makes me wonder if he can walk the walk or if he is just a philosopher.
I’ll take a business where the government forces my customers to pay and guarantees me a 15% profit over expenses any day, geek.
There was a requirement that a substantial portion of their expenses be for direct patient care, not profits and administration.
It was reduced from 90% to 85% and then 80%, and then became waivable (I think). Not impressed.
“said that it was their way or the highway.” And you were saying pass any bill, no matter how bad, as long as it is called HCR?
Obama needed to peel off a couple of Republican Senators and get the bill to the House with the public option. Don’t tell me it couldn’t have been done earlier when there was more momentum. It didn’t happen because he was too busy tamping down progressives.
Obama had the choice of getting some opponents on the right to swallow the public option, or getting some opponents on the left to swallow a bill without the public option.
He chose the wrong door.
Yes, a1, all by himself cost us health care reform. I agree that the kill the bill folks should have compromised, but lets not blame the left. A1, most of the time you have totally unrealistic goals for whatever you consider “change” but in THIS case the villains are CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRATS. Tom carper MUST be punished for his role in this. As Delawareans we can do the American people a favor by getting him the hell of of the senate. Nelson, Landrue…. they fucked this all up for us. We are on the cusp of handing the country back to the Repukes.
We…WE are going to let Obama turn into Carter part 2 and then what… 8 years of President Boner? Screw.
That.
I will move to canada before i see this country go back to the hell hole of total republican power…. but you know whos fault it is?
OURS. what happened to the army of progressive voters that swept this government into power?! What did everyone just sit back and hope, Hope would happen? The game isnt over, but we are DAMN NEAR the edge of the cliff and now that News Corps is allowed to donate money to a politician the forces of evil are going to be even stronger.
So whats my plan?
Form a grass roots political action group and draft someone to primary Tom Carper for senate. I’m not 30, or else i would do it myself. But I am VERY serious about this. I know there is a lot of political passion around here and people who would like to see him ousted for his betrayal of the people. But if a moronic piece of crap like Brownie can get himself elected, SURELY we can find someone. There is absolutely NO grass roots movement on the left wing. MoveON has moved on. Where is the anger? where is the passion? The situation is AS DIRE right now as it was during the height of the Bush administration, and these evil motherfuckers arent going to EVER stop until they are wiped out of the political spectrum forever. They are like cancer. Republicans, Demo-rats like carper, sell outs like Specter and LIEberman….. screw em all.
If anybody needs me, I’ll be in my room planing the revolution (non violent one)
We already do (or did) that for utilities, A1. So your BS ain’t flying with me. Want to take a shower at home, you’re going to pay the company that provides water to your house.
anon, republicans would never have gone along with anything obama wanted. it was their game all along. they didnt want to work together. they wanted to make the president look bad so they could gain power back. Obama’s biggest mistake is that he confused the Republicans for people with souls.
We Democrats lost because we are hippy pussies. Yes, I’m a Democrat, but it pisses me off to no end that they won’t f-cking GOVERN and put their policies in place. The Republicans do not now have a 41-59 MAJORITY. Screw the opposition, put the public option back in, ram the house bill through the Senate, and tell the American people that this IS the change that they voted for. Buyer beware. That is how the Repugs did it. 51% was a MANDATE for Bush, and they almost got away with it.
geek, The government doesn’t fine you if you choose not to buy electricity or water from a utility company. That is a huge difference.
Unless the Dems grow a spine and decide to force the Republicans to actually filibuster (and I am ready to send the R’s my phone books) this round is over. We will not get a single Republican or LIEberman to vote for anything. They want Obama to fail. Fine. You take what the defense gives you sometimes.
The first quarter sucked, I’m ready to move on to the ground game until the half.
Yes, they do. They will condemn you house if it does not have heat or water. NEXT!
Uh, this shit bill could have been passed with ZERO republicans voting for it in the senate. Zero. Nada. None.
Why wasn’t it?
Hey a.price, it’s talk like that that got Sen. Brown elected. Isn’t it obvious? The people don’t like far left, just like they didn’t like far right.
Make sure you bundle up, global warming hasn’t hit Canada yet.
Wrong, geek. The government would not fine you or condemn your house if you had solar panels, a well, and a wood stove.
You need permits for each of those things and many homes are not appropriate for huge swathes of the population. If I try to dig a well in my neighborhood, I would be rebuffed. I cannot have solar panels either.
Guess I am compelled to pay Artesian and Delmarva if I want to live there.
The far left is afraid to piss people off. the far left is afraid to get dirty. It is time to play by the Right wing’s rules since they WILL ALWAYS play like the dirty scum bags that they are. The left wing needs to stand up to the bully and beat the living crap out of it in front of everyone.
shorter a.price – we’re screwed.
Actually you can have solar panels. Markell signed an order nullifying all deed restrictions against them.
Still waiting for the “progressive” plan B. I’m so pissed right now, because I know that that they have no plan B.
And, maybe I’m not a big enough person, but I’m not sure I can forgive the “progressives” (Forgive my labeling, I’m not sure what to call people anymore. I thought I was a progressive, silly me) for resorting to right wing talking points.
It’s times like these that make me proud to be an Independent. Yeah, I’m one of those people – you know, the ones everyone is fighting over.
Democrats are incapable of governing. That is a fact.
/end rant
Face it, geek, this would have been the first time in history the Federal government would have forced its citizens under penalty of law to pay for the profits of private companies with no public alternative.
Your utilities argument doesn’t hold water.
“These assholes, assisted by a clearly obstructionist Republican party”
First of all this bill could be passed today if the Dems wanted it to be!
“…have ensured that American citizens will be bankrupted…”
Yeah, that’s what they did, genius!
Still waiting for instructions on where we go from here, A1. Come on, tell me what to do next… besides bitching.
The first quarter sucked, I’m ready to move on to the ground game until the half.
No time to breathe Geek, next test of spine is when the budget is presented Feb. 1; that’s when we see if Obama is keeping his promise on tax cut expiration. Maybe we’ll get a peek in the SOTU.
I see HCR and tax restructuring as the core issues of the Obama first term. One down, one to go.
The HCR surrender does not bode well. The cheese-eating surrender monkeys are already waving the white flags on tax cuts:
Christ, it is so easy. All the Dems have to do is:
1. Let the Bush cuts expire
2. Vote for middle class tax cuts
3. Make sure the tax cuts for the rich stay expired.
4. Run as a tax cutter in 2010.
The key is not to allow the tax cuts for the rich to creep back in. That way you force Repubs to decide whether to vote against middle class tax cuts or not. If Reid won’t employ wedge issues like that, find someone who will.
Democrats are right now busy looking for ways to screw up this strategy.
How fucked up would it be if we let the TCFTR back in, and then have to run against Republicans gloating about being tax cutters.
At least the tax changes can be done in the budget bill so filibuster won’t be an issue.
pandora, you expect everybody else to offer some other magical “plan B” because, apparently, this bill was your only plan. What’s your “independent” plan B?
And talk about “bitching”…
The American people have had a taste of the policies of the far left and they don’t like it. They are telling you but you’re not listening.New Jersey. Virginia. Massachusetts. If you think Mass. was lost because Mass. democrats are pissed that the president is progressive enough, you’re delusional.
The progressive agenda will be rejected again and again. As will the agenda of the far right.
h., hate to break the news to you, but killing HCR was the top agenda item of the far right.
No, I’m talking the “war is good, jesus is better” far right.
Granderly – No, that only affects new construction. My existing deed restrictions were not impacted.
A1 – you can reject my argument, but you are wrong. There are plenty of regulated utilities that people are required to pay. The key is regulation. We can argue that the bill didn’t regulate enough, but that could have been done.
I had a plan B, which was to pass the bill and work on the problems later – think: medicare, social security.
But I will point out, that you’ve got nothing.
I’m glad this round of HCR is dead. Now maybe we can get both sides talking and get some real reform.
there should be a vote of no confidence in Harry Reid.
I think that vote already occurred. Unfortunately it occurred in the House.
The American people have NOT seen the agenda of the far left because they have not put it into place. They have allowed themselves to be bullied and their policies obstructed by the right wing nut jobs who talk louder than they do. The left must stand up and FIGHT for once.
anon – I’m with you. There is no rest between quarters. The budget is the kind of issue that I am planning to move on to. That and fix the deregulation of financial services that screwed the economy.
…. that everyone can live with.
Pandora, I don’t think Democrats can’t govern. A lot has been passed in 2009, a lot of good legislation that will help millions of people. Sure, HCR didn’t get through, but with when one has to count on Tom Carper, what can you do?
I had a plan B, which was to pass the bill and work on the problems later – think: medicare, social security.
Good news, your Plan B is still viable. Why abandon those goal now? Anything in the Senate bill can be introduced individually or slapped onto some other bill later.
In some ways individual issues would work better. I dare 41 Senators to vote against pre-existing or recission bills in an election year. And I’m OK with losing the individual mandate, but hey, that’s just me.
pandora’s plan: “work on the problems later”
You can’t get more general and vapid than that.
I guess that you don’t demand the same specificity from yourself that you demand from others.
Nemski, I’m venting, and, yes, there’s been a lot done. See: environment.
And anon, I’ve never had a problem with your position – which I agreed with, and you always managed to convey in a way that didn’t label me a sell-out, corporatist, or Obamabot.
My ire is directed at A1, whose tone and constant bitching completely turned me off – even though we agree on 90% of the issues. But that wasn’t good enough for him.
I’ll tell you right now, Democrats can no longer laugh at the split in the Republican party – at least they fractured after masses losses. Dems fracture after they win.
And I’m STILL waiting for A1 to tell me what happens next, for surely he knows. And, yeah, I plan to be a dog with a bone on this point.
Pandora–I think you need a weekend away :).
geek, you cannot point out a single Federal regulation that requires people pay directly into private for-profit corporations without a public alternative. Not one.
The government does not require you to use or pay for utilities. It just doesn’t, and you’re argument to the contrary is factually and demonstrably wrong.
A1’s plan is simple: Bitch and moan until it happens. That’s been his plan since Roosevelt and will be his plan for another 60 years. A1’s stand is no different from Naderites in 2000: There is no difference between the parties, so I will oppose both of them.
One cannot court the A1 vote.
pandora, here is my plan for you – after this bill is killed, do whatever you had in mind to “work on the problems later” because I am sure you know exactly how all of those “fix it later” problems were going to be accomplished. Just do that.
A1 – if I want to stay in my house, I must pay Artesian and Delmarva Power. If I cancel them, I will be evicted for living in a home that lacks the essentials. I have no choice in providers because the State of Delaware or the county or perhaps the city have signed a franchise agreement with a provider (and sometimes with themselves) to provide these services to my home.
I am compelled to get water from Artesian. In my current home, I am compelled to buy power from Delmarva.
At least in the Senate bill I might have a choice in providers.
geek, you are being dishonest and you know it. I wanted what Obama promised – real HCR with a public option, cost controls, and no taxes on health insurance benefits.
This bill had none of the above.
pandora’s plan: “work on the problems later”
You can’t get more general and vapid than that.
And yet you still have nothing. Something, I assure you, everyone notices. And while my plan relied on buying time, on starting with something and building from there, YOU GOT NOTHING.
So, now our positions are reversed. Planning on wooing me?
Those are state regulations, geek. You do not have to own or even live in a home. You can move. You can get a home that doesn’t require utilities. You have a choice.
“I’m glad this round of HCR is dead. Now maybe we can get both sides talking and get some real reform.”
h., you are blind.
The republicans have said from the get-go, and shown, they will not work with the democrats on anything. They will continue to be the party of “no” I doubt there have been 5 votes TOTAL from republican senators on all the legislation that has been passed this year, and as long as a democratic president is going to be the one to sign a health care bill into law, the will oppose it. No matter what it is, no matter who it helps. They will use their propaganda channel and their domination of AM radio to feed HUGE helpings of bullshit to the masses, and when they get their big majorities back…. i bet you the filibuster will suddenly be horrible unpatriotic again.
No, I am not being dishonest. I am being realistic. Obama has certainly made mistakes (letting LIEberman off the hook looms large) but the unholy alliance that you and your ilk forged with the teabaggers is akin to Malcolm X standing shoulder to shoulder with George Wallace to kill the civil rights bill.
So funny how A1 won’t own the victory he’s been calling for, and how he’s asking me how to proceed.
YOU. GOT. NOTHING.
And you won. Geez, you’d think you’d be motivated to lay out a strategy.
And you don’t have to get healthcare either, you can just pay a fine.
You’re welcome.
pandora, start with what Dean suggested: pass a bill that allows all Americans over 55 to buy into Medicare. That can be done with reconciliation. That’s the start. Then we use your plan to “work on the problems later.”
Waddya think? Pretty good, huh? I used your plan!
You don’t have 60 votes for that one. Any other ideas, genius?
My ire is directed at A1, whose tone and constant bitching completely turned me off
That is just his style. He is incapable of arguing without including some ad hominem. But But A1 is right about a lot of stuff and when he is right, he’s right. A1 has pissed off nobody more than Mike Matthews. But as Matthews memorably said:
I suggest you shrug off the personal irritation and start reading A1’s content. For example, today you agreed upthread that Dems had 60 votes if we fought for them. A1 has been telling you that all along.
True, A1 has using HCR as an occasion to turn nearly every action of Obama into a laundry list of criticism. I agree that is toxic and unhelpful.
A1, you are really good at presenting your case if you just stick to a few main issues and lay off the ad hominem; it is reducing your ability to persuade.
“Just pay a fine.” Nice, geek. I am glad to know that you support the Federal government criminalizing people for not being able to pay for the profits of private corporations.
Think of it as a way to subsidize the costs that are borne by the taxpayers every time an uninsured person gets sick.
You don’t have 60 votes for that one. Any other ideas, genius?
I don’t know if any of us are expert enough to know what can and can’t be done via reconciliation. I believe it is more powerful than you think. Any reform that can be attached to the budget bill, should be. I think Medicare expansion can be done in the budget bill, which is not subject to filibuster.
I do know that passing stuff in reconciliation definitely won’t work if you don’t try.
“The entrenched interests of pharma and the insurance industry have a model to win.”
Good joke, that. In what way did pharma and insurance “lose” under the bill that’s now dead?
The administration tried to defang these 800-pound gorillas — meaning make sure they didn’t oppose the plan — by buying them off. In fact, they bought off every special interest except the people, and this is what they get for ignoring the people. You folks can pretend all you want that this bill would be an improvement, but it was improvement that was going to siphon several thousand extra dollars a year out of my pocket, most of which was going to go not to the needy but the special interests. If they’re pissing off people like me and A1 without satisfying those in the middle or leaning right, they’re doing something very, very wrong.
As for the notion that Democrats will be punished for failing to pass a bill that’s unpopular, you have to explain to me how that works. Sounds to me like you’re swallowing the condomload that people like h. are peddling.
For example, today you agreed upthread that Dems had 60 votes if we fought for them. A1 has been telling you that all along.
That is simply not true. We were never going to break a Republican off. And we were never going to get LIEberman on board with the changes that A1 demands in HCR.
Geezer – the healthcare and pharma companies are doing the dance of joy today. That is a fact.
Thanks, anon. I try to present the facts as I see them, but I tend to get sarcastic when being told that I am a “resident liar,” “fool,” “heartless immoral bastard” etc. for my positions. And those are just from the people I generally agree with!
Seriously, we were one freaking House vote away from getting some reforms and we’re pissing it away.
Seriously, here is my response.
Not one red cent to ANY current member of Congress. I don’t care how progressive they are. They all suck.
If Blue Dogs think being Republican-lite is going to save them from electoral slaughter, I’ll just watch them lose like they did in 1994 and 2002. “I voted for it before I voted against it.” Why does that sound familiar? Why do they always learn the wrong lessons from history?
So, some Democrats think they’ll introduce new bills through (that will be smaller and weaker than the one before). Good luck. I’ll watch from the sidelines and wait from orders from our new masters, whoever is proclaiming to lead today.
Pandora: Scott Brown illustrates that you DON’T have to have a plan to win. Americans tend to ignore problems until they’re so dreadful they can no longer be ignored. Until more than 50% want reform, there will be no reform.
And let’s be clear, what most people mean when they say they want “reform” is “I want the same healthcare coverage I get now, but I only want to pay half as much in premiums.” In that regard, you can blame this defeat on the American people … which is why I’m an elitist.
“Geezer – the healthcare and pharma companies are doing the dance of joy today. That is a fact.”
Liking something because your enemies don’t is the essence of mindless partisanship. Just my opinion, but try to disprove it. If it passed, I would not be doing a dance of joy.
why exactly does LIEberman still have his committee chairs? the democrats forgave him for his betrayal and he has done it again. strip him of everything. Punish that freaking traitor and make his last few years in the senate hell.
We were never going to break a Republican off.
I guess that will have to remain unprovable. My observation was that the White House didn’t invest any effort into winning Republican defections to a public option. But he did invest political capital into winning Dem votes for a bill without a public option.
They chose the wrong door.
the changes that A1 demands in HCR
A1 is not representative of progressives who are opposing the Senate bill. The changes he demands are irrelevant. The only change that really mattered was the public option. If you need a representative to point at, look at actual Representatives in the House.
Geek wrote: “Think of it as a way to subsidize the costs that are borne by the taxpayers every time an uninsured person gets sick.”
Why should anybody have to think like that? If the government is going to extract money from people for healthcare, it should go to providing healthcare, not into the pockets of private insurance executives. Every penny that is forced from a taxpayer by the government directly for private corporate profits is a penny that could be kept for the benefit of the person who earned it OR for the general welfare.
I really don’t understand why this is so hard to see.
Oh please, A1. Going for the sympathy/victim route.
I have always tried to ask questions, and have never presented myself as an authority. You might want to try that.
Your tone sucks, and has completely turned me off.
And you still haven’t told me your plan for what comes next, and how we’ll accomplish that. I believe, and have always believed, that if this bill dies no one in Congress will touch it again for a long, long time. If you see a different alternative, spit it out – with specifics. The ball is now in your court. I suggest you run with it.
pandora, since you ignored what I wrote, I’ll repeat it:
“Start with what Dean suggested: pass a bill that allows all Americans over 55 to buy into Medicare. That can be done with reconciliation. That’s the start.”
I don’t know why you love to play this game like I haven’t answered your questions.
A1 are you proposing to get this done piecemeal, one crumb at a time. Geez.
And you call me politically naive.
And what about those under 55? And why would anyone touch this issue again? If the Dems cave on this, I predict it’s dead. Unless, you see a situation where Republicans don’t use this issue to their advantage?
I’m with UI. And Dems might want to take my apathy seriously (since they follow the money) because I maxed out on all of my political contributions last year. I don’t plan on doing that again. I’m considering a winter get-away to Mexico.
anon, are you kidding me? the republicans have PROUDLY stood together and clearly stated their plan NOT to work with the president. they never will. all the dems can do now is FORCE them to filibuster everything. Get right down in the gutter with them. the one thing i have given up on is that this country will ever, im my lifetime have a grown up political culture, or have a mass population of people smart enough to see thru bullshit.
nemski, Obama blew his chance at real HCR when he reneged on his campaign promises. The Senate bill was HCR in name only. pandora asked me where we start now, and that is my answer.
a1, there was never a chance for obama’s campaign promise. we have traitor democrats like LIEberman and carper. and party of NO repukes who will vote against anything that could be signed by a democratic president.
pandora, I said that it is a start. It is a good start. It is real reform. It helps millions of Americans right now and it can be done with 51 votes.
You asked me where to start, and I gave you an answer. Now what is your answer?
And where did I call you “politically naive?”
A1 you complained and complained about all or nothing, and now you want something, just a little taste of health care reform.
In this thread you called me vapid, A1. I don’t have time to search for your other nasty comments, but I will.
Still, this is what you wanted. Why are you still so defensive? Why aren’t you giving the rallying cry?
anrp, Bush went across the country campaigning for his evil agenda and fund-raising for his fellow republicans. He would openly call on people to put pressure on their representatives. Rove let repubs know that there were political consequences for bad behavior, and you could see what the repub machine did to traitors. Just look at how that caucus is STILL holding together.
What did Obama do? Stayed in the White House, ignored his base, made back-room deals with lobbyists, and made LIEberman the de-facto President for HCR.
Could the result been changed? Maybe, maybe not. But Obama never really tried. I personally think he hasn’t adjusted from being a legislator to being an executive.
pandora, I said your plan was general and vapid, not you personally.
nemski, As I have written before, I’ll take the good when I can’t have the perfect, but I won’t take the bad just to have something.
I think that allowing all Americans over 55 to buy into Medicare is a good start and it can be done with reconciliation.
Is it perfect? No.
Is it everything? No.
Is it a good start? Yes.
Is it a public option for people over 55? Yes.
Is it better than nothing? Absolutely.
Really? You don’t want to take it personally, A1? Too damn late, and if it were only one comment on one thread I might give you a pass. But it’s not, so I won’t.
And, let me point out again, unless something changes, your side won, and is now in the driver’s seat. I’m just along for the ride. I suggest you start wooing me, because your side has lost me.
Please tell me how, given the present environment of running for cover, how you expect this congress to approve medicare for those over 55?
Really, show me. I’d love it. Show me the votes for this.
anon, are you kidding me? the republicans have PROUDLY stood together and clearly stated their plan NOT to work with the president. they never will.
“The Maginot Line is invulnerable.”
“We’ll never get up the cliffs at Dover.”
Jeez, every progressive law on the books was passed with Republican support.
all the dems can do now is FORCE them to filibuster everything.
Better late than never.
Filibustering everything is a political junkie’s dream. Average voters… not so much. Elections in 2010 are going to hurt real bad.
Please tell me how, given the present environment of running for cover, how you expect this congress to approve medicare for those over 55?
Really, show me. I’d love it. Show me the votes for this.
Pandora, please, that argument is becoming unseemly.
I bet you could think of ten things to do to advance Medicare +55 if you applied yourself. Or if you don’t like that idea, think of something else.
pandora, I am really looking forward to seeing your compilation of my greatest “hits.” It ought to be amusing.
I am making the assumption, admittedly, that Obama and Reid could get at least 50 Dem votes plus Biden’s to pass it in the Senate. But Obama would have to actually fight for it politically, something he has yet to show he is capable of.
I don’t know that he could even get Biden’s vote. 🙂
What’s you plan?
“We’ll never get up the cliffs at Dover.”
Normandy.
I gotta turn on javascript so I can edit…
It was a terrible bill. Yes health insurance is ridiculously high so lets get it lowered .How about by 40%. Instead of the health insurance companies paying state and federal taxes why cant they just cut our monthly bill by 40% and pay no taxes .Instant savings the only loser is the government and they would just waste the money anyway.
We’re really at the only time will tell point. If what Pelosi says is true, then I’ve lost, and the the “kill the billers” have won. Like I said, the ball’s in your court. I suggest you take a shot. If you pull this off I will cheer my head off and tell you how wrong I was.
What will you do if I’m correct and health care reform is dead?
You guys have some work to do.
BTW, how does it feel to be on the other side? How does it feel trying to get people to work with you? Sucks, doesn’t it?
And, A1, it won’t only be my compilation. I have recruits – from across the DE blogosphere. 🙂
Supposedly Pelosi’s floating some kind of reconciliation plan. *shrug* I’ll believe it when I see it. I’m tired of being yanked around by Democrats on hcr. I’m certainly happy to be proven wrong but we have Blue Dogs running to the right and progressives running to sniff some more glue so I don’t know where this is going.
The whining in here is deafening WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. Pelosi doesn’t have the votes to put through the Senate bill as is. What people are hoping for is a concurrent bill that will amend the Senate bill via reconciliation.
Rather than sit here on DL and stew in these putrid juices ya’ll had ought to wipe the snot from your eyes and get out and about a bit.
Here’s one for the cowardly, evil-minded, dispirited Geek who would lazily blame Hamsher and lie about her motives –
Drew Westen: Obama Finally Gets His Victory For Bipartisanship
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/drew-westen/obama-finally-gets-his-vi_b_429232.html
People are on the move doing what is necessary to repair the ObamaRahm boondoogle of 2009. They thought that they could suck up to the status quo that laid America to waste for the last thirty years. That’s not changey hopey. And Dellies, it isn’t about destroying Obama as you clowns like to cry into your beers. It is about waking him up. Since when shouldn’t Americans question authority?
We want Obama to do more of what he did today when he spoke up about doing something substantial to Wall Street hedgers and: challenge the status quo and kick some corporate ass.
From DKos “President Obama earlier today announced his proposed “Volcker Rule,” which would limit the reckless risk-taking of big banks by barring them from “from owning, investing, or sponsoring hedge fund or private equity funds and from engaging in proprietary trading.”
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/1/21/828215/-Taking-on-out-of-control-big-banks
Obama needs to stare down the profiteering health insurance delivers and pharma cheats next, not sit with them and hold their hands in back of the Oval office with Tom Carper at his shoulder. Massachusetts is waking him up. Hope and Change are supposed to mean something and elections are supposed to have consequences. DEMs have been waiting for ours since the 2006 shift in momentum.
Pelosi isn’t ‘running for cover’. She is assessing her votes. The Senate bill won’t fly as is for all the reasons that House members believe that the House bill is a better bill. The Republicans want to kill HCR not any DEM I know or are reading.
The people running for cover are the people like Landrieu and Nelson and Lieberman. Landrieu is now probably going to face a primary with the AR Lt. Governor precisely because she is trying to kill HCR.
When Dean, Kos, Hamsher and others said ‘kill the bill’ they meant the odious Senate bill that has little control of costs, had a dishonest CBO assessment by the late onset of programs and included very weak protections even for the positive aspects it held. No one was for killing health care reform. Most of the complaints were based on a matter of fact realization that a shitty bill would brand the DEMs and kill THEM in 2010.
There are a lot of interesting ways to approach fixing this. I don’t think I have read anywhere on a DEM blog that the whole thing is DEAD except here on good old Dellieland.
I like the piecemeal approach, plus more: A bill to get the preexisting conditions folks insured; a bill to make it illegal to drop an insured; a bill to open Medicare to the 55 to 65; a bill to give middle income a tax cut; a bill to exempt the poor from the FICA tax; a bill to extend FICA tax to all making over a million; … add your own favorite bill that would be popular.
Bills that involve revenue issues can be passed with 51 votes. All others will require 60 votes to pass, therefore let them filibuster. This puts the Repubs on the defensive, as their filibusters in effect would shut down government, and they would be blamed for obstructing measures that people want, and held accountable for the midterms.
Time to play hardball on the Repubs!
I’ll be watching to watch the brilliant strategy of passing tiny health care reform bills while begging Olympia Snowe for her vote get started. I’ll be over here waiting for the benefits to start showering down.
I’ll be watching to watch the brilliant strategy of passing tiny health care reform bills while begging Olympia Snowe for her vote get started.
Purist.
LOL, anon.
Hey you guys are in charge. Get going! Where’s that change I was promised anyway? It’s been two days!
BTW, Landrieu is the Senator from Louisiana. Lincoln is the senator from Arkansas. I hope she gets primaried, she’s worse than useless, but I feel that way about pretty much all of them right now.
“It was a classic case of everybody getting caught napping,” David Axelrod, a senior adviser to the president.
Great. Nice to hear the White House is on top of things.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/21/us/politics/21reconstruct.html
No, Nancy, Healthcare Reform is dead. Perhaps it is just a prediction, but if you think we weren’t getting enough with the Senate bill before… Just you wait. That ship has sailed. Maybe we get one or two small things passed, but there won’t be anything passed that will stimulate entrepreneurship, manage costs or insure the lower middle class.
And the bullshit that Hamsher has been slinging on FoxNews is one of the reasons. In a debate where every vote counts, friendly fire kills. Thanks, Jane.
Obama has led Democrats into a fucking swamp. If Nancy Pelosi thinks she can lead us out, I am now Nancy Pelosi’s biggest fan and will support her plan. I hope you would be too.
I can’t believe the passion for centrism I am finding here on DelawareLiberal.
Geek blames President Jane Hamsher for the current state of HCR.
This is not passion for centrism, it is a passion to get something done. There was a narrow window, and I believe it has just closed. I like Tommywonks example of “holding out for top dollar” and that is what the Hamsher/A1 part of the party did. And guess what, the bottom just fell out of the market.
Thanks, Jane.
And it is also possible that there was never a window to pass this thing in the first place. But I don’t think that there will be any stomach to pass anything for a decade.
A decade runs most of this country into the poor house!
We’ve got to keep fighting. If we let this go, we not only lose some improvements in health care, we give up even more in November.
Moreover, now we need to focus on jobs (Main Street stimulus), on mortgage foreclosure relief, on getting loans to small businesses, and on reigning in the banks that are too big to fail. Let the Repubs try to filibuster these too. We win either way!
Obama is right the buck stops with him. He never truly rallied the troops to get behind real reform, he never stated what he wanted. He allowed the Senate to decide. The Dems have no one to blame but their spineless selves. Mass did us a real favor. 18% voted against Coakley and her support of the Senate Bill. If Obama had a spine he would never have permitted the Senate to take this bill, (not with all of them taking big bucks from the insurance companies they supposed to reign in). If he had a spine he wouldnt have put Rahm, Axelrod and the others in charge of “corraling the blue dogs”. He should have come out to the people and pushed for Medicare for all…easy to understand, can be done immediately and he would have won the day.
Mass voters were 18% progressive. They knew exactly what they were doing. They nor we should accept the Senate Bill, (the Mitt Romney health care plan). Mass citizens pay the highest insurance rates in the country, ala Mitt Romney! No one with half a brain should support lame ass democrats who want to push this horrible bill off on the nation. Mass were/are single payer supporters from the gitgo. Their single payer bill only lost by one vote. Coakly was out on the campaign trail 19 times compared with the Teabagger Brown who went out 66 times. She took the Mass voters for granted thinking they would automatically vote for her cuz she was a dem.
Brown will only serve 36 months and is up for re-election again. The democrats have to decide…stand with the people and give us the HOuse Bill, or stand with the insurance company written bill, and fail. They have the choice for course correction, if they don’t heed the voter rebellion we can expect more teabaggers elected as the moderates, progressives and liberals sit out 2010.
JK, hindsight is wonderful. Obama’s mistake is that he misjudged the utter nastiness of the Repub resolve to make him fail, any way. He tried for a bipartisan approach, thinking he could get the one Repub vote needed, and we all supported that approach. He campaigned with the attitude to work with the opposition. It failed.
You need to tell me how the Dems can get the House Bill passed. I doubt if it will even pass the Senate, let alone get the 60 votes required.
Let us not throw in the towel, folks. Let us go after what we have a chance of getting, going piece meal. That’s a start, better than waiting a decade!
Perry – I don’t see how you get an agreement with the crazed left and the moderate right. It ain’t gonna happen now.
Thanks, Jane (and Taylor Marsh, too)
I don’t see how you get an agreement with the crazed left… and the moderate right.
Who in Congress is the “crazed left?”
There are no true progressives in congress or the senate. You are on your own. They are chameleons. They want your vote, and will tell what you want to hear to get it.
The all powerfull liberal activist base which runs every media outlet and has made every elected official into turnd out prison pukes should have been more moderate and centerist and this never would have happened.
Geek: crazed left? where do you see yourself…a moderate centurist? This was never a mystery it was always about fixing the health care system by containing costs. Ask yourself if the Dems were so interested in cost savings why didnt they have single payer sent to the Congressional Budget office? Oh I forgot they did but the results were kept secret from the public. Except for those single payer supporters who supported it for decades, on the inside who had the real numbers. The Dems couldnt afford to permit the public to see the real cost savings, which is why they had arrested Physicans for National Health care and Nurses who were asking for a seat at the table. This dirty deal was done by the Dems, more interested in protecting the insurance companies than truly containing costs. If dems were interested in solving the problem would have delivered a simple Medicare for all bill that everyone understood.
Incrementalism has never worked. We dont have years to work on this its already been 60years. The dems had the support of the people, 72% were standing for the public option. So ask yourself, why the dems didnt support the voters who were standing with them. Because the democratic party just like the republican are owned lock stock and barrel by corporations and their lobbyists.
There were republicans in Mass who supported single payer as were moderates. Massachusetts had a long history and understanding of single payer. Unlike those in Delaware who just began to understand the benefits of single payer in the last year when it has made headlines. In fact many of YOU right here on this blog were talking against it, until the national progressive bloggers started talking about it and supporting it.
I guess you would rather impose a horrific bill on the country that will make our premiums go up, not reign in the insurance company robber barrons and the dems can revisit the issue in another 60 years! Its stupidity plus.
There is a way forward. It pushing Medicare for all, easily understood well supported by the majority of americans including those ole teabaggers who didnt realize when they were protesting against it…they already had it.
Here’s what I saw Jason:
I saw Democrats pissing and moaning and wanking. After months and months and months of this, they finally get bills passed in both Houses of Congress. Then I see some progressive allies get mad, team up with rightwingers to kill the bill. When Democrats get one electoral setback in the Senate, the first people I see running to the microphone to declare health care reform dead are Barney Frank and Anthony Weiner. So forgive me if I think all of them suck pretty bad right now.
Then I see some progressive allies get mad, team up with rightwingers to kill the bill.
House progressives pledged a long time ago to vote against any bill that did not have a public option. The Senate and White House gambled the progressives weren’t serious, and they lost.
Krugman incinerates A1 and his ilk:
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/21/the-underpants-gnomes-theory-of-reform/
John Manifold incinerates himself:
Krugman: “But I have to say, I’m pretty close to giving up on Mr. Obama, who seems determined to confirm every doubt I and others ever had about whether he was ready to fight for what his supporters believed in.”
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/20/he-wasnt-the-one-weve-been-waiting-for/
So Krugman is saying basically the same thing I and my “ilk” are.
By the way, since you seem to have trouble following the discussion, I am not an “all or nothing” advocate. I think we should start now with allowing all Americans over 55 to buy into Medicare and it can be done with reconciliation.
Shorter U.I.: Blame the progressives for killing the bill. Long live President LIEberman!
just kiddin’ You are on fi-yah! Hot, hot hot!!
know what works? being childish and rude to politicians in front of cameras. This defeat of health care is a Tea Bag victory. their awful game works because americans are stupid sheep. (most of us). next time, it has to be US that is outraged.
Shorter A1 — can’t be bothered to read UI’s post, so I’ll just lie about it!
And apparently he can’t be bothered to address JM’s link to Krugman’s content. Unless you think that just pulling another quote by Krugman out of the context of that column actually counts as an answer — and it does not. Krugman finds evidence of the influence of the Underpants Gnomes on your “ilk”. Invoking more Underpants Gnomes behavior in response to JM’s post isn’t helping your case.
a.price, this only works for conservatives being childish and rude to politicians. Fox News will even fund that. The so-called liberal media will make sure that liberals doing the same thing are seen to be beyond the pale.
i think populist rage is in season. We usually protest war and are painted as protesting the troops. But telling politicians loudly and to their face they are supporting Big….. whatever… that is a little harder to spin. Being nice hasn’t worked.
A1 has reading comprehension problems.
Krugman: “House Democrats need to be told to pass the Senate bill, which isn’t what they wanted but is vastly better than nothing.”
Speaking of underpants, cassandra_m, you might try untwisting yours someday.
Did you read UI’s post @ 6:40? “Then I see some progressive allies get mad, team up with rightwingers to kill the bill.” You can read the rest for yourself to see that he is blaming the house progressives for not caving to Obomba and LIEberman and big insurance.
And speaking of “Underpants Gnomes,” here was pretty much your plan:
1. Pass fake HCR
2. ??????
3. Real HCR
You stick with the Obama/LIEberman “mandates without cost controls” HCR plan and I’ll stick with Howard Dean’s plan: allow all Americans over 55 to buy into Medicare and do it with reconciliation.
He’s wrong about that, John, but telling real progressives to sit down, shut up, and wait your turn is standard procedure.
Furthermore, I don’t advocate doing “nothing,” but even nothing IS better than the LIEBerman/Obama “mandates without cost controls” HCR plan.
And a huge majority of Americans who want real HCR know that this bill ain’t it.
And one day you’ll find underpants that don’t clearly cutoff any brain power you might have had, A1.
I sure did read UI’s post. Which is more than you can say. And taking one bit of her post and deciding to make a claim for it that she did not make is what we call a LIE.
And I did not have a plan for HCR, actually. And perhaps that is part of your problem — I’m not in Congress, you know. And nor do I work for anyone who is crafting this legislation. But once again, your brain-dead characterization proves what I’ve been saying all along — you never read what people say. You never engage with what people actually say. You just run right to the arguments you’ve made up to argue against. Which still makes you a liar.
But the fact that you still can’t quite engage with the point that Krugman was making is noted.
poor cassandra_m. All you got is name-calling. Anybody can read that she was blaming house liberals for not capitulating to Obomba and LIEberman. The commenter right below hers interpreted UI’s comment in the same way. But, hey, when reality conflicts with your opinion, reality must be lying.
And I certainly did engage Krugman’s point: I said clearly “He’s wrong about that.” You can read it yourself.
Perhaps someone who constantly uses terms like “Obomba and LIEberman” shouldn’t be scolding others about name-calling.
Ah yes, the part of the conversation where you get your victim on. And no one called you any names. Certainly no worse that that untwisting your panties bit, which you seem to think is kosher. But hey. Predictable, you certainly are.
And we are also at the “anybody can read” part of the conversation. Another hallmark of the lazy and unengaged. But I think that we already get that you’ll never invest any energy is understanding what people who may disagree with you say. You’ll just keep making shit up so that you have a reason to argue, feel victimized and continue to indulge your need to lie about everything.
And handwaving is not engagement. But you did know that. You chose to get your victim on instead.
Get off your rightousness, pandora, Obomba and LIEberman are elected public figures that have blown any chance of real health care reform. They deserved any ridicule they get.
So… name-calling is okay when you say it’s okay?
I think all Democrats have failed us. The ConservaDems and BlueDogs for making the bill worse than it should be, but I’m sorry, anyway you look at it, House Progressives were the ones who said it was dead. I think House Progressives would have been in better shape if they hadn’t gone running to cameras right away declaring the death of health care reform. I’m sorry but progressives aren’t blameless.
I’m sorry but I’ve always been on record thinking that the Senate bill is better than the status quo.
Hey, if progressives are able to pressure the rest of the caucus to push the bill through reconciliation, I’ll be as happy as anyone. Then their gamble will have paid off.
What I’m seeing right now is Democrats talking about scaled down reform. Pretty much nothing for the uninsured and people with pre-existing conditions.
No victim, cassandra_m, just pointing out that most of your talking points with me these days consist of accusing me of lying in spite of the evidence to the contrary. And now it is “lazy and unengaged” in spite of the fact that I probably have had more comments and engaged more often here than almost anyone else in the last several days.
Clearly you have problems dealing with facts and figures and substance, so you just keep attacking me and then telling me I getting my victim on when I point it out.
You really are precious in your own sad way.
pandora, you do what you want to do, you say what you want to say, and I’ll do the same. You respond the way you want and I’ll respond the way I want.
If you allow Americans over 55 to buy into Medicare, there would be no rejection for pre-existing conditions, and it would be the start of a single-payer system that could be eventually extended to everybody. The largest percentage of medical expenses occur after age 55, so this would be a huge step forward in true reform.
And so shall we all then.
But let’s not have any more of this faux victimization of “look, they’re calling names!”, when you clearly get the ball rolling. So if you don’t like getting your own medicine back, then don’t dish it.
And as for the lying? Why there’s UI actually speaking for herself about what she wrote. Meaning that you were — surprise — lying about her post.
And I’ll point out — again — that when you have facts and figures and substance that are on point, not ripped out of context, from clearly credible sources, and served up in the service of the argument actually being made (as in, NOT the one you want to have), then you get to make some claims to substance. Besides — as I have frequently pointed out — if you have to make claims for the substance of your argument you’ve clearly not provided any.
I want to go on the record by saying I think Obama is doing the exact wrong thing right here on hcr. (I’m somewhat excited about his new banking regulations that Geithner and Summers don’t like):
Letting Congress have time to figure things out – isn’t that what got us into this mess in the first place? WTF are they thinking?!?
cassandra_m, you might consider taking your own medicine before you try to prescribe it to others.
If all you got is to call me a liar, lazy, and unengaged, then I AM going to point that out because it is indicative of the quality of your argument, not about me being a victim.
You are funny, though. You call me a liar and then get mad when I point it out.
By the way, U.I. is singling out house progressives for killing the bill: “I’m sorry, anyway you look at it, House Progressives were the ones who said it was dead.”
I wrote: “Shorter U.I.: Blame the progressives for killing the bill. Long live President LIEberman!”
I wasn’t lying as anyone can see. Unless you really thought that I was implying that LIEberman really is the President.
From an earlier post:
“It was a classic case of everybody getting caught napping,” David Axelrod, a senior adviser to the president.
Maybe they still don’t want to disturb his nap.
cassandra_m, you might consider taking your own medicine before you try to prescribe it to others.
If all you got is to call me a liar, lazy, and unengaged, then I AM going to point that out because it is indicative of the quality of your argument, not about me being a victim.
So this is it? You can’t counter anything I had to say with more than “well so are you!”.
By any stretch this *is* lazy. And really does alot of the work of showing how unengaged you really are with the people you presume to scold on all things progressive.
Thanks for showing us all how thin it really is.
A1,
Please stop trying to speak for me. Remember when you said we can disagree without being disagreeable? Please use that when talking about what I said. I’m not singling out progressives. I’m singling out the Democratic party. The ConservaDems screwed us and the progressives put the nail in the coffin.
Don’t accuse me of “Hail President Lieberman!” I think Lieberman is the scum of the earth.
U.I.: How can you say “I’m not singling out progressives” and then you single them out by saying “the progressives put the nail in the coffin?” That makes no sense.
The progressives did not put the nail in the coffin. Obama, LIEberman, and the Senate did. People complain that progressives don’t have a backbone, and then condemn them when they actually stand up for progressive ideas and legislation. This was LIEberman’s HCR, not the HCR Obama promised and I am glad that the progressives stood their ground, for once.
By the way, is political hyperbole considered unacceptable around here? Because that was what my statement was.
I love the way you quote the first part of my comment, cassandra_m, ignore the second part entirely, and then ask “So this is it?”
No, it wasn’t “it” as anybody with eyes can read.
A1,
At this point I want results. I’m not seeing any.
U.I. Then put the blame where it belongs.
If you think “Lieberman is the scum of the earth” then you should applaud, not condemn, the progressives in the house for standing up to him, finally. LIEberman and the republicans were the ones who destroyed any chance at real HCR, not the progressive Dems.
I love the way you quote the first part of my comment, cassandra_m, ignore the second part entirely, and then ask “So this is it?”
That *was* it. Nothing more, really. Just more posturing by you. Anyone with any reading comprehension whatsoever could see that.
But then, ripping stuff out of the context of their original arguments is SOP with you. Can’t imagine why you’d object to anyone else doing it.
What ever you say.
BTW: “Hyperbole” cassandra_m. You can look it up under words beginning with the letter “H”.
BTW A1 — telling people to look up words for you doesn’t substitute for a real argument, either.
What ever you say, cassandra_m.
Can’t believe you bloggers never picked this up. The night of the Mass election an immediate poll was done. Research 2000 did it. The PROTEST vote was simply that. Democrats, Republicans and Independents voted against the SENATE bill, NOT against universal health care! You can get the poll results online.
Health care is not dead. Several states are now getting ready to put forth their own single payer bills. So why arent you supporting SB 120?
I have a bridge for sale. I bought it 14 months ago. I’m selling it for less than I bought.
It’s a hell of a deal! Get with me!
I can’t put my finger on it, but Cas doesn’t like A1. At some point, you’d think the contributor of the blog could just ignore A1 or any other comment.
it truly is interesting to watch and read the pissing contests that go on.
If it were not for the progressives like Physicians for National Health Care, the National Nurses Associations and decades long advocates on the issue of health care, you libs would have thrown up your hands long ago. You can blast the progressives all you like, they are going to make sure this bill gets fixed or dumped. There are thousands of progressives joined together today to phone Pelosi, your senator and congressperson, telling them to adopt the House Bill and go to reconcilation. Progressives should not give up, the democrats should not cave, the blue dogs should be told straight up….get on board or the party will put up a candidate to run against your ass…how you like me now. You can bet Carper would cave as would Nelson, Landrieu, Baucas and the rest of the corrupted bought off bunch. Time to get tough! And the dems better not pull a dirty trick of voting before Mr. Teabag is seated. If the democrats have any morality left, they will not use that republican party bag of tricks, and if they do it will bite them on the butt in 2010.
She wants me in the worst way, DV.
I don’t see how you can use the IRS to penalize individuals so that they have to be a private product. That, and taxing good health care of hardworking middle class Americans because you can’t get the rich to pay for it. Democrats would have been damned for a long time if they screwed middle class Americans again.
Why is my comment to DV in moderation?
A1, I looked and I didn’t see a comment in moderation.
It was taken out of moderation by someone else, I guess.
Well well, the dems are now saying they want to vote on the Senate bill, get her done! The SEIU says, “do it and dont count on our financial support of democratic candidates”! If they pass that Senate bill, dems lose huge.
The Mass Plan is 95% of the Senate bill…THE HIGHEST INSURANCE PREMIUMS IN THE COUNTRY.
JK, the Senate Bill has been adjusted to the satisfaction of the SEIU. You must have missed that! Moreover, the Senate Bill has some cost controls that the Mass plan may not have, like exchanges and limits on out of pocket expenses, and non-discriminaton by gender. Read about it here! .
The left is starting to realize that Hamsher and her crowd are nuts.
http://mydd.com/2010/1/22/whats-the-point
There’s no question who won here. AHIP.
Of course, all of A1’s thread-jacking and self righteous garment renting would not be nearly as obnoxious if the party had actual leadership. I think we can all agree on that much.
“self righteous garment renting” What is that supposed to mean?
Speaking of garments, when are you walking down Main Street in Middletown without any?
2 Sam 13: 31
Then the king arose, and rent his garments, and lay on the earth; and all his servants stood by with their clothes rent.
It means an overly dramatic (perhaps comical) display of woe.
I think that you meant “rend.”
Do “overly dramatic (perhaps comical) display of woes” include promises to streak nude down the main street in Smyrna, Delaware if Mike Castle entered the race for the US Senate?
No. Rent.
It has been a little chilly of late. I trust that you’ll remind me of my debt to society when it warms up a bit. It may turn out to be the only display of Democratic opposition to Castle’s victory lap.
I always thought the term was “rending of garments.”
OK. I wonder how much the King got for his garments? Probably more than his servants. Maybe people will rent their garments to pay for the insurance company profits under the Senate HCR bill.
(I only threw that in there to avoid a sternly written warning from the self-appointed DL Thread Policewoman.)
UI,
It depends on which corrupt translation of the bible you believe in.
Jason,
What does the conservative Bible say?
Too funny, U.I.! Thanks for the link and the laugh.