Good Friday Open Thread
Welcome to Good Friday on this beautiful spring day. While most of you are slaving away at work, I’m going to be enjoying a day at the spa (my Christmas present). So I hope you’re having fun! So, what’s on your mind besides intense jealousy? It’s time for an open thread.
Obama visited Maine yesterday and he’s still fired up about his health care bill. He was quite feisty with his critics.
OBAMA: You have to love some of the pundits in Washington. Every single day since I signed the reform law, there’s been another poll or headline that said, “Nation still divided on health care reform.” “Polls haven’t changed yet.” Well, yeah. It just happened last week! It’s only been a week!
Can you imagine if some of these reporters were working on a farm? You’d planted some seeds and they came out the next day and they looked. “Nothing’s happened! There’s no crop! We’re gonna starve! Oh no! It’s a disaster!”
It’s been a week, folks. So before we find out if people like health care reform, we should wait to see what happens when we actually put it into place! Just a thought.
This is pretty ridiculous, but at least he’s warning people that he’s a nut:
First,
do no harm, check their voter registration.A doctor who considers the national health-care overhaul to be bad medicine for the country posted a sign on his office door telling patients who voted for President Barack Obama to seek care “elsewhere.”
“I’m not turning anybody away — that would be unethical,” Dr. Jack Cassell, 56, a Mount Dora urologist and a registered Republican opposed to the health plan, told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday. “But if they read the sign and turn the other way, so be it.”
The sign reads: “If you voted for Obama…seek urologic care elsewhere. Changes to your healthcare begin right now, not in four years.”
I’m not expert in medical ethics, but a practicing physician encouraging patients in need of care to go elsewhere based on their voting practices seems like anti-Obama hysteria gone horribly awry. Cassell has professional obligations that are supposed to supersede his bizarre Republican ideology.
When you’re in a service industry, it’s probably best to leave your political beliefs at home. I guess this guy just doesn’t have enough self-control to do this.
Tags: Open Thread
Perhaps he decided that, as a urologist, he prefers smaller cases… 🙂
I am Orlando in a few weeks. If the sign is still there, I’ll get a picture of it and maybe ask for an interview…
Enjoy your spa day U.I. You have certainly earned it with all the work you put in here. Thanks.
Happy Spring everyone.
I wanted to report back on a good turnout for the Brandywine Area Democrats candidate night, both from hopefuls and audience. I hope everyone gets a chance to meet these folks and ask them questions, so we can have a smooth endorsement process and strong campaigns.
Would it be unethical for him to put up a sign that says “If you are a Kluxer, seek medical care elsewhere”? If not, then I really don’t see an ethical difference here.
On a completely unrelated note, you might find this piece by Michael Fumento over at national Review to be worthwhile reading. It is not political.
http://article.nationalreview.com/430186/a-good-friday-to-remember/michael-fumento
Yes, that would be unethical.
Just when you thought Michelle Bachmann couldn’t get any stupider, she comes out with this – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsdIwWh1I4o
“Would it be unethical for him to put up a sign that says “If you are a Kluxer, seek medical care elsewhere”? ‘
Yes, it would, and a violation of Hippocratic oath if followed through.
Have a blessed Holy day.
If you have read the article, you will see he is not refusing treatment — he is simply telling them that they should find another physician.
By the way, geezer, the Hippocratic oath also contains a prohibition on abortion. Care to talk medical ethics?
My lands, the bullshit that the for profit “pro-life” industry feeds to these bleating, know nothing ATM machines they call the faithful. Sheesh.
Before I say one more thing about abortion though, Moose needs to prove his “pro-life” street cred to me buy responding to this simple yes or no question.
Do you thinks abstinence based sex ed works? Yes, or no?
Hippocratic Oath
I swear by Apollo the Physician and Asclepius and Hygieia and Panaceia and all the gods, and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will fulfill according to my ability and judgment this oath and this covenant:
To hold him who has taught me this art as equal to my parents and to live my life in partnership with him, and if he is in need of money to give him a share of mine, and to regard his offspring as equal to my brothers in male lineage and to teach them this art–if they desire to learn it–without fee and covenant; to give a share of precepts and oral instruction and all the other learning to my sons and to the sons of him who has instructed me and to pupils who have signed the covenant and have taken the oath according to medical law, but to no one else.
I will apply dietic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.
I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody if asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art.
I will not use the knife, not even on sufferers from stone, but will withdraw in favor of such men as are engaged in this work.
Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons, be they free or slaves.
What I may see or hear in the course of treatment or even outside of the treatment in regard to the life of men, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep myself holding such things shameful to be spoken about.
If I fulfill this oath and do not violate it, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and art, being honored with fame among all men for all time to come; if I transgress it and swear falsely, may the opposite of all this be my lot.
Actually, Jason, your litmus test proves nothing.
Especially since what you BELIEVE to be abstinence based sex education is probably not what it actually is.
Wrong answer. Your response proves that are not interested in reducing the number of abortions – you are into making political points and fundraising. I’m done with you.
Whoa…did Moose compare Obama voters to KKKers? In the recent past, it’s not KKKers who couldn’t get medical treatment.
The Hippocratic Oath (Modern Version) as currently taken by most graduates. Not many schools left that ask their students to take an oath in the name of ancient Greek gods. Bu then again this idiot takes pride in showcasing his ignorance all over the internets.
On a completely different topic… Delaware Liberal is adding a new contributor on Monday. We are all psyched.
No, Jason, my response proves that I’m not going to play your semantic game based upon your fundamentally incorrect misunderstanding/misrepresentation of the terms.
Yes, UI, I did — in the sense that believers in one socio-political philosophy are the equivalent of believers another socio-political philosophy.
My point being that if it is morally/ethically acceptable to tell believers in one such socio-political philosophy that you would prefer to not associate with them on a professional basis, then it is morally/ethically acceptable to tell another such group the same thing.
But then again, I hold to a much more expansive view of individual liberty and the right to freely associate/not associate than most folks do — even if that means that some individuals will engage in behavior I personally find to be morally/ethically repugnant. (Notice — I’ve no where said I agree with the doctor’s placement of the sign. All I’ve done is try to place it in a broader context for discussion.)
And cassandra — you are right. How could I be so idiotic as to bring up the actual Hippocratic oath that goes back to the time of Hippocrates in the course of a discussion of the contents of the Hippocratic Oath!
Hey Moron — if you are having a discussion of the Hippocratic Oath, you should talk about the one that people take NOW. Which means — once again — you have no point, just a spectacular need to be a Public Ignoramus.
Yeah, why would I possibly what to raise the issue of what has been the standard of medical ethics for more than the last thirty minutes or so, cassandra? That I would dare point out what the standard of medical ethics has been for most of the history of the medical profession is certainly pointless in a discussion of medical ethics.
Keep spinning away, Moron — the oath that defines the current practice of ethics in medicine is not the one you posted up. If you are holding people accountable for the oaths they take NOW, you could acknowledge that the oath they take NOW (and for the last 40 or 50 years) does not have the prescription against abortion that you are stupidly working to make relevant. Since that prohibition has been long gone from the oath, you no longer have a point here.
Nope. You lose mosse. I know people who want to reduce the number of abortions that are performed. You are not one of them.
Another new contributor? We’re going to need to rent a very large minivan for those field trips to the teabagging rallies.
You know this based upon my refusal to play your little game? How amusing, Jason, since my answer does not indicate what I believe on the issue at all. It simply reflects my belief that you are either ignorant or disingenuous.
Moose loses by equating people who vote the way he/she doesn’t agree with domestic terrorists who would abuse and murder random people because of the color of their skin. Metaphor fail!
Actually, cassandra, what I’m trying to suggest is that contemporary medical “ethics” are, in and of themselves, unethical in a whole variety of ways — based upon their rejection of something quite fundamental. I have the same problem with the revised Declaration of Geneva, which went from an oath that clearly rejected the life-devaluing philosophy of the Nazi medical establishment to one that barely holds human life in any greater esteem than did the evil that the original sought to combat.
It does not fail at all. The fact that one side is infinitely more extreme and reprehensible than the other is irrelevant to the analogy.
For that matter, from the perspective of which group has the greater power to do harm to this nation, one could theoretically make an interesting argument as to which group is more to be reviled and rejected…
You don’t care about abortions. It is. All politics to people like you.
What are you basing your assertion on? Try providing evidence, not a bald-faced claim to be able to read my mind based upon the fact I wouldn’t play your little game.
Well I’ll be damned – the Pope has a preacher problem.
A simple yes or no question. You got it wrong. I could draw you a map, but you are not worth it.
A simple yes or no question. You got it wrong.
Actually, I refused to answer it because I questioned whether you were applying the proper definition to what you were asking about. I therefore did not “get it wrong” — I raised a point of clarification.
1+1 = ??? Do you need another clue? Too bad. I’m not in the clue business.
what I’m trying to suggest is that contemporary medical “ethics” are, in and of themselves, unethical in a whole variety of ways
Well I guess there is more than one way to avoid admitting you were wrong and pretending that you were having a different argument takes some chutzpah since every bit of your argument is — you know –written right here. And you were specifically not having an argument, but challenging Geezer:
By the way, geezer, the Hippocratic oath also contains a prohibition on abortion. Care to talk medical ethics?
In a conversation about the morality of a doctor turning away patients based on politics. But hey — morality is not and has never been your strong suit. And nor has intellectual honesty. When you have to pretend that the people you are engaged with can’t just check on what you just said to see your lies and misdirection you have just lost it — any claim to morality or honesty or even interest in the conversation to pretend to be engaged in.
And as i point out, Cassandra, the Hippocratic Oath DOES contain a prohibition on abortion. Only the neutered form currently in use does not.
Jason — Base 10 or Binary?
And now for another case of the stupids (and this one is a Democrat) – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsFsn8ekyhw
Oaths and ethics aren’t the law.
Personally, I’d be kinda grateful the doctor clued me in on where he stands, if he feels that strongly. Kinda opens the door for me to decide if I want to walk in or out.
And believe me, reciting the Hippocratic Oath at most med schools has gone the way of lighting a Nightingale lamp. Sorry to disappoint you Dr. Kildare fans.
This is good. Rush’s Adios Note to the country as he decamps for Costa Rica:
The irony is served in 50lb sacks throughout this note. “I have never seen the media so supportive of a regime amassing so much power.” Was Rush out of his mind on drugs for the 8 years of George Bush? Wait…oh yeah…nevermind.
I still feel bad for Costa Rica though.
Well, “returning to our sheep” as we used to say in French Class, I was refused treatment by a physician when we had a difference of opinion on early stage ultrasound… and he was on the taxpayer’s nickel, at the time. Doctors turn people away all the time, no matter what oath they’d be taking.
For me, over the last few years, I do my best to put every penny into people who share my values, so, like Joanne, I’d be happy to know the cut of his jib.
Of course, this is probably common racism, which doesn’t hit me, as a pale girl, the way it might his community.
Big Thursday night for Brandywine Hundred Democrats. Excellent challengers for House (Heffernan), Senate (Counihan), County Council (Annone), followed by rousing speeches by Carney and Coons.
Then came the joust for Treasurer. Chip said he’d do a great job; Velda pointed out the job she’s already doing well, after which the senior Democrat in the room, Wayne Pollari, in the most positive way possible, said that since both are capable, why should there be a primary?
Obama, sticks it to our friends but rolls over for our enemies (and fast too):
US to drop extra security against ‘terror-prone’ Muslim air travellers
timesonline.co.uk ^ | April 2, 2010 | James Bone
The Obama Administration said yesterday that it would no longer impose extra airport screening on all travellers from “terror-prone” Muslim nations after protests from allies that are on the list. The US will instead use a tailored system that profiles individual travellers based on intelligence and factors including their physical description and travel patterns. Officials said that the system would result in fewer passengers being pulled aside when travelling to America. The US imposed extra checks on travellers from 14 “terror-prone” countries — 13 largely Muslim nations and Cuba — after Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, a Nigerian, allegedly tried to detonate…
Bans on abortion are typical of patriarchal societies. And that, after all, is what you’re really after — male control of women, right? Because otherwise, you wouldn’t consider them mere vessels for your offspring.
Yeah, Geezer, you’ve smoked me out. All I want is women to be barefoot and pregnant.
B*llsh*t!
I’m opposed to the killing of innocent human beings. If that makes me part of some patriarchal conspiracy, then we need more patriarchalism, because the matriarchs are for consuming their own young!
I’m opposed to the killing of innocent human beings. If that makes me part of some patriarchal conspiracy, then we need more patriarchalism, because the matriarchs are for consuming their own young!
Yeah, it’s all the woman’s fault.