Weekend Open Thread
Welcome to Kentucky Derby weekend! As some of you know, I’m a Kentucky native, yet I’ve never attended the Kentucky Derby. It’s interesting to see the rest of the world watch a 3-minute horse race and then quickly forget about horse racing for the rest of the year. Are you watching the Derby? Just remember, if you make a mint julep, you have to use Kentucky bourbon. None of that Canadian stuff, that’s just wrong!
Ladies and gentleman, your liberal media:
There’s a remarkable revolving door between the mainstream media and the staff of the Bush White House, and it just keeps spinning.
It’s been tough to keep up with all of them, but the list is getting pretty long. In addition to Orr and Malcolm on the Los Angeles Times’ “Top of the Ticket” site, we also have Dana Perino (Fox News), Michael Gerson (Washington Post), Marc Thiessen (Washington Post), Mary Matalin (CNN), Sara Taylor (MSNBC), Tony Snow (CNN), Frances Fragos Townsend (CNN), Nicole Wallace (CBS News), Dan Bartlett (CBS News), Jeff Ballabon (CBS News), Tony Fratto (CNBC), Juan Carlos Zarate (CBS News), and of course Karl Rove (Fox News, Newsweek, and the Wall Street Journal).
NBC News even hired one of the former president’s daughters, despite her not having any background in journalism.
Don’t forget Scott Brown’s daughter was also hired by CBS and Meghan McCain writes for the Daily Beast.
The great Oilpocalypse continues to grow in the gulf and balls of tar and oil are reaching the Louisiana coast now. MSNBC found that BP thought a spill was impossible:
BP suggested in a 2009 exploration plan and environmental impact analysis for the well that an accident leading to a giant crude oil spill — and serious damage to beaches, fish and mammals — was unlikely, or virtually impossible.
The plan for the Deepwater Horizon well, filed with the federal Minerals Management Service, said repeatedly that it was “unlikely that an accidental surface or subsurface oil spill would occur from the proposed activities.”
The company conceded a spill would impact beaches, wildlife refuges and wilderness areas, but argued that “due to the distance to shore (48 miles) and the response capabilities that would be implemented, no significant adverse impacts are expected.”
It’s horrible watching this play out, realizing we really have no way to stop the spill right now. All efforts have failed so far and we’re still playing a guessing game on how to deal with it.
Tags: Open Thread
Tonight’s the White House Correspondents Dinner. MSNBC is going to have special coverage beginning at 9:00 PM tonight.
Guess they’ll all be yukking it up while the Gulf Coast of America is being destroyed by the negligence and greed of our corporate overlords. They should all be served Gulf Coast seafood salad with an oil dressing.
Gee, the National Enquirer allegations of a secret Obama affair is falling apart. What a surprise.
UI,
Please don’t tell us you read the National Enquirer.
well, they (Nat. Enq)did get me right…..
This spill is horrific. I honestly cant think about it for too long without feeling like i am going to cry. What we have don’t to our planet absolutely sickens me and the worst part is, many many many people deny we can really hurt the Earth until something like THIS happens.
There is absolutely NO DOUBT this will destroy that entire region for thousands of years. The Earth isn’t designed to quickly recover from a disaster like this. This is a 100% man-made tragedy. If America is not by this lesson taught humility, then she is an obstinate old slut, bent upon her ruin. (my eternal praise for anyone who can place that quote-steal without google)
Happy International Workers Holiday, Comrades! If not for unions this beautiful Saturday would have been a workday.
The U.S. is facing a calamity almost beyond imagination and where is Obomba tonight? Having laughs at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner. Unfortunately, giving a national address to the American People to discuss the possibility of losing a huge part of our coastline, including the east coast, doesn’t seem to be all that important.
Reminiscent of Bush at McInsane’s birthday while NO drowned.
“The Arizona state Senate on Thursday passed a bill making it illegal for a person to “intentionally or knowingly creating a human-animal hybrid.”
Awesome!
YEAH! Obama should be swimming around in the Gulf, drinking all the oil and converting it to dictatorial power to override the congress.
“The Arizona state Senate on Thursday passed a bill making it illegal for a person to “intentionally or knowingly creating a human-animal hybrid.”
Would it be a valid defense if I was drunk at the time?
a.price, Obomba is the executive leader of this country who the American people turn to in a time of crisis. Why do you think Bush’s ratings were 90% after 9/11 when they should have been in the 10%? Because he and his advisors recognized an the country was looking for leadership. This has nothing to do with Congress or the other utter ridiculousness in your posts, it has everything to do with providing real of leadership in a time of crisis. And Obomba is AWOL, and instead is exchanging guffaws with the national suckups know as the White House Press corps.
Obomba is once again failing to lead. He should be declaring regulatory war on Big Oil. He should be explaining the Federal government’s response and plans. The American people would be behind him. But he is blowing it, big time.
“Heck of a job, Barack.”
so you are advocating Obama take the same reckless “look good for all the A1s in the world” stance Bush took?
heckofajob a1.
anon- Who know who is scared of human-animal hybrids? Christine O’Donnell.
A1 – Obama should have built a time machine out of a Delorean and stopped BP from building that drilling platform.
delacrat,
I don’t read the National Enquirer. You can rest easy.
Good leaders are proactive and get out in front of crisis. Poor leaders are reactive and weak. But keep shilling for Obomba, a.price.
“Heck of a job, Barack.”
Since there’s nothing I can do to stop the oil spill, I took UI’s cue and watched the Derby. Made $40 on a $5 win bet on Super Saver. Preakness here I come!
What, precisely, do you think he should do, A1? Posture and speechify? Because that’s pretty much the only thing he can do here. What do you think this posturing speech should say?
Obama appearing in the Gulf is a photo-op. He’s got three cabinet members posted there right now – Interior, Homeland Security and EPA. All he’s going to do is look things over and make resources available. I’m not sure what anyone is expecting him to do – if BP doesn’t know how to shut down the well how is the U.S. government supposed to know?
What do I expect him to do? Lead. Begin by telling the American people in a national speech about what is going on and what the Federal Government and he are doing. Talk about what the plans are for trying to stop it. Talk about environmental remediation efforts and air quality monitoring. Show some concern. Show some hope. And talk about regulating the energy industry, and why the lack of regulation has failed here.
There are millions of Americans who are waking up today very afraid for our children (including me).
In short, he should not be relegating the job of leading in this crisis to the oil companies, bureaucrats, and underlings. But, like the HCR debate last summer, he is going AWOL. Once gain, he is creating a vacuum of leadership. Christ, do you remember how much mileage Bush got out of shouting idiocies through a megaphone in NYC after 9/11?
If the planet can recover from this, it could be the turning point to real and sustained environmental and energy policy changes. Otherwise, it is just another nail in the coffin of higher life forms on this planet.
What not to do, BTW? Go to a comedy club with the White House Press corps.
“Heck of a job, Barack.”
Why do I get the feeling that if Obama gave a speech it wouldn’t be good enough in A1’s eyes? That if he didn’t announce the immediate shut down and destruction of every oil rig (or mine) A1 would view it as political theater, selling-out, or shilling for the oil companies.
You’re couldn’t be more wrong, pandora. I disagree with Obomba on many things, but I keep hoping that he’ll turn it around. As much as I disagree with him, he is still much better than any republickin, but his failures to lead are providing a huge opportunity for them to return to power.
At least he is going down there today. Maybe he’ll wake up to the enormity of the crisis and, you know, lead.
Political theatre and photo-ops are an essential part of driving an agenda. Laughing it up at a comedy club while the country is facing a chemical attack and a bomb is being defused in the middle of Times Square is not the photo-op you want.
“Heck of a job, Barack.”
Why do get the feeling that if Obomba gave a speech dressed in nothing but his birthday suit, most of us on delawareliberal.net would marvel at his new clothes?
because you live in your own reality where, if you cant see treasonous tyrannical acts by the president (whoever it is) you get bored and have nothing to do
So, as I said, you expect him to speechify. Not only that, you expect him to reassure you and tuck you into bed at night. You little baby.
Most Americans remain unconcerned about this, and will remain so until the prices at the fish market start going up. And what do you expect the president of the No. 1 oil-consuming nation to do? Foreswear oil?
You sound like Republican. “Please, Daddy President, reassure us. Tell us we’re safe in a big, nasty world.”
Grow the fuck up.
In Geezer’s world, Winston Churchill was a big baby. And the Fireside Chats of President Franklin D. Roosevelt? Waste of time. In Geezer’s world, speeches of the President are meaningless. All Geezer cares about is the price of his fish.
Try not to be the total dick you so obviously are. Rallying the public in times of fear is understandable. What are you afraid of? Ocean currents? How is a speech going to help? Jesus, you’re a tiresome, one-note douche nozzle. Fucking baby.
Did you really expect a guy who showed every sign of being a centrist, DLC Democrat to have turned all your liberal dreams to reality? You’re not just a baby, but an unrealistic one besides.
The next decent point you make on this topic will be the first. A speech! Yes, that will do a lot of good. And reassuring you that they’ve got it under control would be a lie.
So you’re essentially asking him to lie to us so that you’ll feel better. if that isn’t the essence of childishness, what would be?
*sigh* Would it be fair to say that in A1’s world Mother Teresa was a complete failure because she didn’t hold weekly press conferences? Of course not.
Geezer, considering your advocacy of off-shore drilling and being one who dismissed the possibility of the crisis we’re facing today as being so remote as to not be worth considering, your opinions about the current situation are simply without credibility.
To ask “what am I afraid of” is to show a total and complete lack of empathy or understanding of what the country and the planet is facing.
But keep acting like your childish name-calling is actually adding anything to the discussion.
I’ve grown more than accustomed to A1’s whining. It’s particularly odious on this issue, because there is literally nothing Obama, or anyone in government, could possibly do. Indeed, to come forward with any claims of having things under control would be a blatant lie. The situation is unprecedented.
A1 ought to be happy that this accident will put the kibosh on offshore drilling for another 10 years or more. Instead he takes it as another Obama-bashing opportunity. If I wanted to listen to shrill, emotion-based complaints about Obama, I’d turn on Sean Hannity.
BTW, I didn’t say “lie to us.” I said “Begin by telling the American people in a national speech about what is going on and what the Federal Government and he are doing. Talk about what the plans are for trying to stop it. Talk about environmental remediation efforts and air quality monitoring. Show some concern. Show some hope. And talk about regulating the energy industry, and why the lack of regulation has failed here.”
No where does that say “lie”. None of the above require lying. The biggest lying being done in this thread is by you.
Hey, dick-face, I didn’t “advocate” anything. I told you what the situation was, and what I quoted was accurate.
You can’t have “empathy” for a planet. Opinions can’t have “credibility.” You’re a poorly educated, liberal equivalent of a tea-bagger.
Sorry, but public hand-wringing to demonstrate progressive credentials is just more of your babyish squalling. As I noted, the next intelligent comment you make on this issue will be the first.
pandora, if you can’t distinguish the difference between a nun and the elected President of the United States, then there is little hope of a discussion.
No, Geezer, you’re lying again. You said that there were no major oils spills after Katrina. That is demonstrably untrue. The “poorly educated” one in this discussion is you.
Opinions based on fact have credibility. And perhaps you can’t have or understand the concept of empathy for the planet, but many like me can.
You using the word discussion is laughable, A1. You aren’t looking for a discussion – you’re looking for converts.
Discussion is a way to get converts. 🙂
Sorry, chief, but the broader public simply isn’t interested in hearing any of the things you claim you want to hear.
“Begin by telling the American people in a national speech about what is going on and what the Federal Government and he are doing.”
Why? Because this story is high on your radar doesn’t mean it dents the public’s. Frankly, unless this is going to create jobs, most people just don’t care. Sorry, but let’s see what happens when the polling comes out.
“Talk about what the plans are for trying to stop it. Talk about environmental remediation efforts and air quality monitoring. ”
Again, why? This is a technical issue, well beyond the scope of a presidential speech. These are details best left to people who understand them, isn’t it? If not, why not? Just because it’s on your list of things Obama should do to prove to you that he’s sufficiently liberal and presidential?
“Show some concern. Show some hope.”
Showing some hope would constitute “lying.” It’s a full-scale disaster, unprecedented in scope. There is no hope.
“And talk about regulating the energy industry, and why the lack of regulation has failed here”
Now we come to the nub. I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but environmental concerns have been shoved beyond the back burner in the current recession. There’s no chance in the world he’s going to make liberal hay out of an environmental disaster.
Your pie-in-the-sky wish list is just that. And I’m sure you’ll use his failure to be your hero instead of an American politician to bash him some more. I’ve heard this note before. It’s the only one you play.
The evidence that you have shit for brains is wide-ranging, but let’s start with this:
Empathy, which literally translates as in feeling, is the capability to share another being’s emotions and feelings.
A planet can’t have feelings. Conservatives are the ones who redefine words to suit their own purposes. You belong with them.
I have just as much concern for the environment as you do. This, however, is a politics blog. Politics has been defined as “the art of the possible.” Once you have digested that, you can start a discussion. All you’re spewing at this point is propaganda.
Here’s a fact for you: Between 1971 and 2000, U.S. Outer Continental Shelf (OCS) offshore facilities and pipelines accounted for only 2 percent of the volume of oil spilled in U.S. waters. (from the Christian Science Monitor).
But don’t let that get in the way of your fearful, quivering whining.
“A planet can’t have feelings” – Geezer
Well, I am part of this planet, so why can’t I have feelings?
I believe in audacious hope. After all, hope was all that was left in the bottom of Pandora’s box.
But, Geezer, you can keep advocating for Obomba’s leadership failure here, and help him be responsible for the republickins gaining power in 2010.
Bush and Rove know how to use the Presidency to rally the nation for evil. Too bad Obomba won’t do it for good.
“Heck of a job, Barack.”
Geezer, I wasn’t talking about “between 1971 and 2000.” I was specifically addressing your lie that there were no major oil spills during Katrina.
Empathy for the planet means empathy for all the creatures great and small living on it, including you.
I see you’ve retreated from even trying to pretend to know something about oil technology.
“A planet can’t have feelings” – Geezer
Well, I am part of this planet, so why can’t I have feelings?
You can. Indeed, you seem to have nothing but feelings. What I’m more interested in is thoughts, of which you have exactly one: “Heck of a job, Barack.”
Go back to your pacifier.
“I was specifically addressing your lie that there were no major oil spills during Katrina.”
The disagreement, if I recall, is that you cited ALL the oil spilled, from several platforms, during the hurricanes as ONE MAJOR spill — again, making up your own category. I am not trying to push some oil-company position. I started from the same position you did — and then did some research.
The original issue was whether offshore oil platforms had improved their record since two major disasters in the early ’70s. The facts at the time indicated they had. I made specific note that Katrina represented a worst-case scenario.
Now go get your diapers changed.
Oh, dear. I seem to have insulted Delacrat by accident. So Delacrat, let me add you to the list of people who just make up your own meanings for words that already have them. Go join the Republicans — it’s where ideologues naturally gravitate.
I somehow missed the Gridiron dinner last night. But don’t cry for me LIMA-BEAN-A, I never planned to gouge my ear holes………next to a-holes… like Ron Williams…
i call em lefTeaBagz, geezer. btw nice job on this thread. you are kickin ass!
People like Delcrat, and A1 will never be content because their idea of what a president should be is the EXACT same as the Darth Dicks of the world. A totally autocratic dictators who push a fringe opinion of what the country should be and damn all other opinions. While some of those opinions ARE WRONG (many republicans) we cant just roll over them.
Del and A1 would love to live in a left wing dictatorship where we have no national defense (lest we annoy anyone else) and where entire industries are crushed and thousands lose their jobs because of the mistakes of a few greedy dick-wads. they both need to grow up…
and Geezer, stop beating up children 🙂 (or those with child’s minds)
Geezer,
With respect to your quotes above, summarized below.
“Get your diapers changed”
“Go back to your pacifier”
“you have shit for brains”
“Hey, dick-face, ”
“poorly educated, liberal equivalent of a tea-bagger.”
“tiresome, one-note douche nozzle.
“Fucking baby.”
“You little baby.”
“You sound like Republican.”
“Grow the fuck up.”
Don’t you think you owe anonone and me an apology ?
Great points pricey. This event should be a leverage point that unifies the country around real eco-realization. Instead we also seem to default into holier than thou-ist tantrums that give polluters the whip hand and make progress less likely.
Jason, i wasn’t actually wasn’t trying to make such a mature point this early on a a sunday, but i agree with you completely. This disaster hasn’t even fully played out yet. We don’t even begin to know how much damage it will do. TO “respond” at this point would be irresponsible and would only serve to appease those who knee jerk reactionary tendencies. For everyone slamming Obama’s response i ask this …. how man oil drenched birds have YOU cleaned up since the crisis began? anyone? that’s what i thought.
There were no nuclear meltdowns before Chernobyl, either. Katrina obviously was not the “worst case.” And thinking that something won’t or can’t happen just because the possibility is small and it hasn’t happened yet is ignorant, which is what Obomba’s and Geezer’s support for offshore drilling is.
“Get your diapers changed”
“Go back to your pacifier”
“you have shit for brains”
“Hey, dick-face, ” … ok true, Geezer has no proof you face is made of dick
“poorly educated, liberal equivalent of a tea-bagger.” my personal fav.
“tiresome, one-note douche nozzle…. fact
“Fucking baby.”
“You little baby.” … same as the first on, only less offensive
“You sound like Republican.”… that is an insult to you? what is your problem with repbulicans?
“Grow the fuck up.” again, another jab at your maturity but i like the variation
a.price, unlike blind Obomba loyalists like yourself, many of us have been working very hard to try to create a world where cleaning up oil-soaked birds would never be necessary. By the way, the only one who ever talks about dictatorial powers is you, not me. Wishing for Presidential leadership is not wishing for dictatorial power, but poor presidential leadership will lead to loss of political and electoral power.
Why do Geezer and A.Price expect to persuade anyone with such puerile name-calling ?
By the way, a.price, thanks for summarizing for the readers what Geezer and you feel to be the height of your intellectual discourse.
Oh, there’s plenty of name-calling going on – on both sides. The high road is out of reach on this thread. Which is fine, but let’s stop pretending to be above it all.
Carry on.
If you watched CBS’s ‘Sunday Morning’ you know: That gulf coast fishermen are in their prime season right now….their only opportunity to make money this year. That the fishermen find it increduless that ‘help’ is coming from hither, thither, and yon while they describe themselves as ‘knowing the gulf best’. That over 100 went for BP ‘recovery’ training to be hired to help with their losses, AND so far BP has hired 1 fisherman!
I may be off on this but I believe BP is owned by the Rockefellars…nice going boys….I’m certain most folks believe BP is British Petroleum….notice the Rich Rocky name is not included in any palarva from the media.
Also, what about the 11, still unrecovered, workers….they were bum rushed off the screen.
Score another one for the rich ‘rat bastards’ (from Cassandra’s post on Massey Energy).
More Tea Party violence… oh nevermind, it’s the lefties & Illegals again:
Riot breaks out in downtown Santa Cruz, CA
San Jose Mercury News ^ | 5/2/10 | Alia Wilson
A group of protesters demonstrating at a May Day rally for worker’s and immigrant rights downtown broke off into a riot vandalizing about a dozen businesses around 10:30 p.m. Saturday, police said. Windows were left shattered and graffiti including anarchy signs were tagged onto buildings. The Rittenhouse Building, Urban Outfitters, Jamba Juice and Velvet Underground all had windows broken, according to Capt. Steve Clark. Santa Cruz police asked for help from all agencies in the county to break up the riot. At one point, protesters lit a fire on the porch of Caffe Pergolesi and blocked access to firefighters, officers…
Car Bomb in Time Square… must be Bush’s fault!
Pakistani Taliban Claim Credit for Failed NYC Times Square Car Bombing
The Long War Journal ^ | Sunday, May 2, 2010 | Bill Roggio
A top Pakistani Taliban commander took credit for yesterday’s failed car bomb attack in New York City. Qari Hussain Mehsud, the top bomb maker for the Movement of the Taliban in Pakistan, said he takes “fully responsibility for the recent attack in the USA.” Qari Hussain made the claim on an audiotape accompanied by images that was released on a YouTube website that calls itself the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan News Channel. The tape has yet to be verified, but US intelligence officials contacted by The Long War Journal believe it is legitimate. The Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan News Channel on YouTube was created…
but have no fear, Nappy is on the job:
Napolitano: Administration ‘certainly considering’ possiblity of terrorism in car bomb
The Hill ^ | May 2, 2010 | Bridget Johnson
Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said Sunday morning that the administration is “certainly considering” that the car bomb found in New York’s Times Square could be an act of terror.
I don’t think most of the general public is paying much attention to what’s happening in the Gulf yet. This is a disaster that is going to play itself out over several months (a slow motion disaster). Obama is visiting the area today (I think, if not, tomorrow). We’ll see what he has to say.
This is much, much different than the Katrina disaster. In that case, the government bungled the response and totally forgot about the people there. It’s not like we didn’t know what to do – give the people food, water, shelter and medical care. In this case, we have no idea what to do. We may have a month or more before we can even stop the leakage.
I hope that in the end something good can come out of this disaster. In my eyes, that would be going to a renewable energy future. I would hope that we can accelerate the changeover and get government funds to help develop these alternative energy sources.
As far as presidential speeches go, Obama has a weekly address on Saturdays. Daily Kos always covers them and the speeches appear on YouTube. This week’s was particularly good because he was talking about the role of government.
I really don’t think we’re ever going to see something like “Fireside Chats” again. The media is just too fractured for that.
Schwartzy, No. 9-11 was Bush’s fault.
Convince you of what? I couldn’t care less about convincing you whiners of anything. I”m just venting by dumping on a tiresome troll whose anger at Obama for failing to be the Messiah has now led him to cry that his Daddy won’t make him feel better about the spilled oil.
Oh, and my problem with Republicans is that they make up their own facts, their own meanings for otherwise specific words, and think that winning debates on a chat board is an accomplishment. Just like you.
By the way, I am not a “supporter” of Obama. In transactional analysis terms, I am playing the adult role, explaining the way the adults are playing the game, since you two are so intent on taking the child’s, “why aren’t things more like I want them to be?” position.
Geezer thinks that calling people obscene names in response to disagreements is the “adult role.” What a freakin’ joke.
“Heck of a job, Barack.”
“Whose door does this oil spill darken?”
Excerpt: “The Democrats running in the midterms are now hobbled in their ability to trash the Republicans, because they have to tiptoe around their own President’s position. He has handcuffed them, he has almost forced them to zip their mouths shut on the [drilling] issue. Indeed the inchoate anger will wrongly accrue to him, and the only thing the Democrats running may be able to do is either defend him or run away from him.
He is redefining the positions of the Democratic party in ways that many of us progressives are unhappy with on the merits. But in this case he is also losing the political benefits of being on the right side for all of us.”
The whole thing is worth reading:
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/whose-door-does-this-oil-spill-darken.html
“Heck of a job, Barack.”
Geezer,
When the Republican, Bush supported his base. You “whined.”
When the quasi-Republican, Obomba supports Bush’s base. You say that’s just “the adults playing the game” ….ho-hum.
I think the President has made all the right moves so far. He is no John McCain, but he is pretty good.
He was against offshore drilling before he was for it before he was against it.
Unless a code of discourse is enforced here, this site will suffer a loss of stature and readership.
Heterodoxy is to be encouraged, but the woofing, personalization, anonymous hectoring and unalloyed rudeness has been increasing exponentially.
Oh I would have banned some of these sissy bitches a long time ago if I was still doing it.
The suspect in the foiled Times Square “bombing” is a white male in his 40’s. It seems that Islamic militants try to claim responsibility for everything – I guess it helps their recruiting, even when they have nothing to do with it.
…a white male in his 40’s. …? Probably a patriot not a terrorist. Just guessing.
“… but the woofing, personalization, anonymous hectoring and unalloyed rudeness has been increasing exponentially.”
That’s what happens when Liberals begin to eat their own.
“Oh I would have banned some of these sissy bitches a long time ago if I was still doing it.”
See? That was an unwitting reference to the beginning of the banquet.
When the “discussion” becomes about who has “offended” who, relying on faux outrage about which side has crossed the line from civil discourse to shit-slinging, a thread has just entered the realm of meta. DL threads seem to do that more than most. Just an observation. It’s one of the reasons I don’t read open threads very much. Have fun!
One person’s “liberal” is another person’s “conservative.”
Oh dear. Unalloyed rudeness. Can’t have that.
Good to see,by the way, that your real concern (or Digby’s, at least) is that Obama cannot now use this as a cudgel to bash the GOP. How empathetic toward the planet.
“Unless a code of discourse is enforced here, this site will suffer a loss of stature and readership.”
How the hell would you know? Your idea of “stature” is John Carney.
By the way, A1, where’s your comment about Obama’s oil-spill speech? Yeah, didn’t think so. The reason I’m so offended is that no matter what happens, you blame Obama. You’ll have to enlighten us on how that’s different from a conservative’s reaction.
Actually, your wrong about that, Geezer. I think that Obomba has done some excellent things, particularly in the area of nuclear arms reduction and control. I also think that he hasn’t done what he promised in other areas like HCR and he has demonstrably and undeniably lied about his positions.
That, for some reason, you think it is wrong and childish to ask “why aren’t things more like I want them to be” is beyond me. The only reason that anything ever gets done is because people ask and act on the question.
And you’re ignoring a key part of that blog post: “But in this case he is also losing the political benefits of being on the right side for all of us.” By failing to be on the right side, not only is he staking out the wrong position, he is ALSO losing providing a political opening for the repubs to return to power. As we have clearly seen, having the republickins in power is bad for the planet.
Since you asked, in regards to his speech, he should have been standing on a surfboard with a megaphone next to a couple of oil-soaked mermaids.
A1, I’m beginning to think you have NO idea how our system of government works. Didn’t you ever watch School House Rock as a kid? The president wish real hard for his full agenda of campaign promises in one hand and….. well you know what in another. If there are enough in the congress who don’t want to see ANYTHING accomplished, they can block or water down and there is nothing constitutional the president can do about it. You are at this point upset what your every demand isn’t met and you are holding your breath and stamping your feet totally deaf to reason.
“Since you asked, in regards to his speech, he should have been standing on a surfboard with a megaphone next to a couple of oil-soaked mermaids.”
so you dont even take yourself seriously…
“…standing on a surfboard with a megaphone next to a couple of oil-soaked mermaids.”
LOL !!!! A1
aaaand his sidekick shows the expected support.
a.price, I am very happy for you that you love politicians who lie to you and say one thing and do completely the opposite. Obomba was made for you to worship. Have fun, big guy!
I agree, he has undeniably lied on many important issues. You didn’t list the terrorism-based assault on civil liberties, which is his No. 1 area of failure IMO, because it’s all on him. Ditto DADT, HCR, line ’em up and knock ’em down. I haven’t bitched you out on those issues, because those issues are under his control.
The oil spill, OTOH, is not. Even if he hadn’t made his proclamation last month — widely analyzed as his opening gambit in a cap-and-trade negotiation, and given his usual method of taking one mouth-foaming point of contention off the Republicans’ attack list at the start of such negotiations, not a surprising one — this would have happened anyway.
During the campaign candidate Obama chastised McCain for the notion of taxing health insurance plans and spoke out against off-shore drilling. President Obama – DONE and DONE.
I think A1 has a point whether you want to see (admit) it or not.
Geezer, we happen to agree on a lot of stuff and we disagree on other stuff. I thought he said the right things in his speech but I am disappointed that it wasn’t a prime time address. I think that he was mishandling this spill both politically and in the government’s initial response, and I hope that he can recover. Liberals, both on the left and on the far-left, have a lot at stake in Obomba’s political success in keeping the republickins out of power, but that doesn’t mean we should ignore stuff, like the very items that you mentioned.
I still think you are too early on deciding he failed in the response. Phase one of this catastrofuck (the actual spilling) hasn’t even ended yet.
We don’t know how long it will continue… and that is entirely out of Obama’s hands, we don’t know how it will spread, where it will go, how much of it will effect the land or even what it’s long term effects will be. To simply react for the sake of reacting and getting that all important photo opp would put Obama on the level of George W Bush… i actually cant believe that is what you want.
Do I wish he would go rambo on their asses and soak up the oil with all of BP’s executive bonuses? (and Goldman’s for that matter) hell yes!. But that is not how it works here. If you want to live in a country where policy and action is decided based on emotional gut responses, by all means run for office and change the system. Until then, you will have to either commit to being angry and disappointed the rest of your life, or suck it up and try to effect change. But throwing your hands up as soon as you dont get your way to the letter is childish. I also remember one word over and over again form the campaign … compromise. did you think that meant “compromise, as long as it all goes the way a1 wants is to” ?
I see the point, and I actually agree with the point. But it’s counter-productive to call this “Obama’s Katrina.” When you’re channeling Sean Hannity, you’re not making much sense even in GOP terms.
I, too, hoped Obama would govern from a position further to the left on the political scale. It’s pretty clear by now that it won’t happen; if anything, the GOP gains in November will force him even further to the right. I have chosen to make peace with it because, with luck, this is the guy we’ve got for the next seven years.
WHat I won’t do is make the Nader mistake of taking 90% agreement between the Dems and GOP and rounding it off to 100%. THere is a difference between supporting offshore drilling to rob the Republicans of a campaign issue and supporting offshore drilling because you really believe it’s a solution to anything. I guess it boils down to whether you dislike someone more for cynicism or wrongheadedness.
“THere is a difference between supporting offshore drilling to rob the Republicans of a campaign issue and supporting offshore drilling because you really believe it’s a solution to anything.”
geezer for the win.
“There is a difference between supporting XYZ to rob the Republicans of a campaign issue and supporting XYZ because you really believe it’s a solution…”
Yes. There’s is a difference between selling out and standing by what you believe in.
ahh the old “sell out” insult. I used that when I was in high school too.
It’s not about winning anything. My much-earlier crack about the price of fish is actually a lament for all the wildlife that will — has already started to — die because of this.
Fishing is a sustainable industry when practiced properly. It is not compatible with industry, which is why the Delaware estuary is now almost devoid of commercial fishing operations (I got a sardonic chuckle out of a national story on Dr. Bradley that called Lewes a “small fishing village.” Not in this century, it’s not.) Sadly, for most people seafood is their only point of entry to the health of the seas.
“There’s is a difference between selling out and standing by what you believe in.”
And there’s a difference between being a one-term president and a two-term president.
No, I don’t think there is a difference. People voted for him based on the positions he campaigned on. Now when faced with decisions that coincide with his campaign promises he does the opposite even channeling his opponents positions. Does the reason really matter? To the talking heads and general public that voted for him I’d say no.
A1CRAT would seem to prefer a 1 term president who didn’t accomplish jack-squat, but stood stubbornly by his most far left views than 2 term president who got a lot (but not all) accomplished but had to compromise with some of the other 300 million opinions in the nation.
I seem to remember another president who stood firmly by his original position regardless of what happened or changed in the world. …. seems to me the Left considers him… what was it again??? the WORST president in the history of the country. Admit it LefTea Bagz, you want a left wing George W Bush.
Geezer, I think that one phenomena that we’re clearly seeing in the republickin party is that their candidates and elected officials are moving hard right in response to the teabaggers. I don’t see why we shouldn’t at least try to move the Democrats to the left by airing our own political and policy demands. If we are silent and simply nod our heads (which is what many have done), then Obomba moves more to the right (as he has done).
While you and others have tried to accuse me of simply trying to be more progressive than the next person for its own sake, that is not the case. I am expressing views that I have had for decades before Obomba was elected (such as don’t lie to use, keep your promises, and don’t sell-out to corporations). I don’t change my views just because there is a Dem in the White House.
We’re never going to get the whole cake if the Dems think we are happy just eating crumbs. Maybe if enough people on the left get as angry as the teabaggers, we’ll get real reforms, not lies and empty promises.
“People voted for him based on the positions he campaigned on.”
According to Politifact, so far he’s kept 110 promises, broken 19, compromised on 34, been stalled on 83 and has 255 still in the works.
“Does the reason really matter? To the talking heads and general public that voted for him I’d say no.”
And that sums it up. You offer no more insight than any member of the general public. Thanks for the warning.
By the way, Geezer, in regards to a one-term versus a two-term president, if Obomba stays on the present course, he could be a one-termer exactly because he lied and didn’t keep his promises. The public option which he promsed, for example, has overwhelming popularity, but he didn’t even fight for it.
Obomba came into office with tremendous good will, a landslide victory, and tremendous political capital. It was Obomba himself who squandered it.
If his downward trajectory in the polls doesn’t improve by 2011, I hope Obomba is primaried or feels the heat of a possible primary from the left.
I recall one of the promises Politifact saying he’s kept is getting a puppy for Sasha and Malia.
Like A1 says… Heck of a job Barack.
110 to 19…. mmmHM! bread crumbs indeed. trolls.
The problem with your logic is that nobody in the Senate failed to vote for HCR because it was too conservative. It had to be as conservative as it was to get the votes it got.
Which of the issues we’re discussing would have gotten him any conservative votes? DADT? Not likely. Demagoguing against offshore drilling? Until last week, not a smart strategy. Go down the list and find me an issue on which a more liberal position would gain him any votes in Congress. Good luck.
I’ll grant you that his centrism has demoralized the Democratic base, and that has hurt his polling numbers. But the sad truth is that the huge surge in black voters that helped fuel his victory has not been sustained in any of the elections, and probably won’t show up at the polls this November, either.
The last time a Democratic president was primaried from the left, his name was Jimmy Carter, and it ushered in 12 years of GOP presidents. High price to pay for moral superiority, IMHO.
“I recall one of the promises Politifact saying he’s kept is getting a puppy for Sasha and Malia.”
And so that makes the whole exercise in responsible journalism illegitimate in your eyes? What Republican logic.
You got nothin’, Delacrat, and you keep proving it over and over again.
“Maybe if enough people on the left get as angry as the teabaggers, we’ll get real reforms, not lies and empty promises.”
Wrong again, because the situations are not analogous.
The Tea Party gives cover to politicians to do what their corporate masters want them to do. An angry left doesn’t do that. In fact, it does the opposite — it gives them yet another reason to do the corporate-sanctioned things we oppose.
In short, while the Tea Party is only 25% of the public, there’s no evidence that true liberals make up even that percentage. Just as the Tea Party can’t win without compromise, neither can we.
To pretend otherwise is to be a mirror image of the Tea Party.
The public option has overwhelming public support. He didn’t even try. He could have gotten it done through reconciliation. Again, he didn’t even try. He made secret deals with pharma that the White House won’t release. More selling-out.
Jimmy Carter wasn’t going to beat Reagan, regardless of Ted Kennedy. Ted Kennedy might have been able to beat him. We’ll never know.
It is easy to throw up your hands and blame it all on the Senate, but the fact is that he did not even try. As I pointed out last week, Ried made the repubs filibuster Financial Reform until they folded. With real HCR and a public option, he didn’t even try.
Nevertheless, even though your point about getting even more votes for a more liberal position is a good one, it doesn’t mean we should stop trying or complaining.
I hope that Obomba is out campaigning in the fall to get some of that turnout you talked about.
The Tea Party gives cover to politicians to do what their corporate masters want them to do. An angry left doesn’t do that. In fact, it does the opposite — it gives them yet another reason to do the corporate-sanctioned things we oppose.
So you propose that the ‘angry left’ should give Obomba cover when he does what his “corporate masters want him to do.”
Do whatever you want. I propose you stop pretending to have anything meaningful to add for anyone who isn’t with you on the angry left.
Interesting points on this debate from Glenn Greenwald and Greg Sargent, who criticize Obama’s “judicial activism” statements the other day. Sargent sums up his feelings thus:
“Obama … feels the need to stake out a “non-ideological” middle ground on many issues for rhetorical and political purposes. So this is just something the left is going to have to learn to live with — or continue to rail against. It isn’t going away.”
I’ve learned to live with it. You guys have chosen the other path.
Well, in that case, Geezer, maybe you can learn to live with us “railers,” too. 🙂
Geezer you are dead on with your appraisal. Obama is not being critized enough by the liberals. Progresives are more out in front trying to build some support to go against the baggers. Libs just sittin on the side lines with that hopey changey crap. Whether its health care, financial reform, environmental issues the libs give him a pass, while the bold progressives are taking him to task. Time to get off the pot and act. As Cornell West said, “he can be a great president or a mediocre one, its up to the people to push him in the right direction”. Thats not being done either with the majority of the bloggers or the media.