Something to Think About
Two questions to start your weekend – When did it become OK for people to call others faggot, n****r, spic, kike, or other racially insensitive pejoratives? And if you’re on the receiving end of one of these insults, should you have the right to smack the person across the face? When is enough enough?
1. Who said it was OK?
2. Maybe. Usually not.
3. When you are ready to get rid of the First Amendment.
Depends on your definition of “OK”. I think derogatory speech was ALWAYS there but with the advent of the internet, peeps got so use to the anonymity it provided, they just started forgetting that they were in public. Oh yeah, when a black man became a serious candidate for President.
As far as slapping or hitting back. MJ, use your words when angry. Hitting is never appropriate.
How come n****r has *s, and spics, kikes, faggots and other personal slang words don’t? Are some folks lesser offended?
My personal bloodboil is “retard”. I honestly thought we worked that one out of our culture a LONG time ago. I am sickened it has resurrected the last 5 years in general conversation, and people are absolutely casual when using that word. And this site has been guilty.
Why isn’t “conservative” considered a slur in the US?
“I honestly thought we worked that one out of our culture a LONG time ago.”
That’s because you hang out in Education World, where it was replaced with “special,” which was well on its way to becoming an insult before retard was resurrected. Sorry to boil your blood, but “moron,” “idiot” and “imbecile” all started out as specific terms for grades of intellectual incapacity — they are still noted as such in dictionaries — before becoming better known as the insults they are today. And whatever term you come up with to replace “retard” will find the same result.
Again, sorry about your delicate sensibilities, but people hurling insults have always turned to whatever word indicates a lack of intellectual capacity and, until human nature changes, always will. In this way the “intellectually challenged,” or whatever politically correct term you prefer, face a different sort of prejudice than your n****s, s****s and k***s (also known as h***s). Ethnic groups can be in or out of power in a society, leading to their labels being used as insults (you left out the dagos, wops, polacks and bohunks, by the way). The intellectually challenged actually ARE inferior in a significant way (though of course not in others, as evidenced by their lack of reliance on name-calling), and so will always be victimized by this, no matter what their name of the moment.
@Nancy – the N-word to me is the most vile of slurs I have ever heard. Being gay and Jewish, I spell out the slurs hurled at me quite frequently, like they were this morning when I was out taking the dog for a walk. I don’t know if some folks are “lesser offended.”
Honestly Geez, that word was worked out of our home as a child about 5 yo. Didn’t need the education world to PC that one. Maybe, learning that as a child is why it seems so reprehensible today.
But, I do agree w/ you–all this changing up from handicapped, to special , intellectually challenged, handicapable, exceptional does leave one searching…..
And your delineation of intellectual capabilities are very well known to those in the business–I don’t know why they never really had the same “hate” effect when used. Food for thought.
The other ethnic stuff…..just leap-froggin’ for societal position. Been going on for years amongst folks not secure enough with themselves, to play with others. It’s territorial, and chest-puffin’.
Nemski – don’t worry, I didn’t hit the Eastern European trash who decided he could call me a fucking faggot kike this morning. There is a huge dent in a wall, however.
MJ–are you sure your dog didn’t dukee on his yard? I mean…that’s a bunch of hate on a dogwalk:)!!!!
Nancy – I also find retard extremely offensive as I have a sister who is developmentally disabled. I cannot count the number of fights I cannot count the number of fights I got into during elementary school when some wise ass would use that term when referring to the kids in the Special Education classes. Needless to say, I was never disciplined by school authorities for standing up for my sister and her classmates.
Joanne: Maybe I’m exposed to more uninhibited kids, but I never stopped hearing “retard,” though I did note the introduction of “gay” as a grade-school insult about 15 years ago.
MJ: Just wow. I thought the RB tourists got over their homophobia years ago.
Geezer–I wasn’t even talking about younger kids–I was at the check-out–the cashiers were switching out, one dropped the coupons in the drawer, and the other loudly and laughing commented “What? Are you retarded?” I was flabbergasted. This was about 5-6 yrs. ago–and has increasingly picked up speed in the general population vernacular. Geez, I worked in a 75 member boy’s last stop before jail group home in Philly, and never heard them use that word–every other epithet yes–but not that. Oh well. Again, I think it has to do w/ my upbringing–an absolute freeze frame in the house about that word–FWIW–Shut up, was another verboten one. Oh–thanks for the regression therapy:)!!!
As someone who was a teenager in the ’90s, let me offer a different (i.e., younger, “not an old fart”) perspective. 😉
I’ve never heard the words spic, kike, heeb, dago or wop used in speech, ever. If you went into a room of high school students and asked them what they meant, I’d bet you’d get a lot of blank faces. Polack comes up only in the context of older men telling dumb jokes that are really meaningless to anyone below the age of 45.
Nigger became acceptable in the ’90s among black teenagers using it amongst themselves. It seems to have gained more acceptability in recent years in general use, however, generally among friends or in comedic situations.
Gay became an epithet in the schoolyard in that decade as well, alongside fag, faggot, homo and lez. Among youth today, however, it’s largely lost its cachet, as a veritable shitload of teens, young adults and college students personally know someone who’s come out of the closet.
Retard has really come of age in the last decade. However, it depends on the context. When I previously lived in Ohio, there were local government agencies known as the MRDD boards – standing for Mental Retardation and Developmental Disabilities. That was acceptable. But calling someone a “retard” was not. Go figure. (Note: A few years back, they were renamed – now it’s just Developmental Disabilities.)
None of those words make my blood boil, though I wouldn’t want my kids using them or them being used around my kids. And I’m sure I’d feel much differently if I or a member of my family were black, gay or disabled. But to me (a white male), a person who uses such coarse, derogatory or demeaning language has just revealed that he or she doesn’t have the intelligence to be worthy of a further thought. So I don’t waste my time or energy on them. I have more important things to do than care about a bunch of jackasses.
Geezer – Chances are if MJ was taunted by an Eastern European trash in Rehoboth that the trash-talker was a student worker, not a tourist. They might not know which city they’re going to until they arrive here, so big homophobes might get a huuuuge culture shock!
Well done anon @ 12:30. And you probably won’t ever be an old f**t either!!!! 🙂
I agree–the ethnic slurs are dated aren’t they? Kind of “West Side Storyish”.
According to my daughter, I’m already old, and I haven’t even cracked 30 yet. 😉
I don’t think it’s acceptable to call someone names and I definitely think we’re in an epidemic of rudeness lately. I think the teabaggers have let loose with their inner ids. Eventually it will get better but people will need to push back and say that this isn’t an acceptable way to act.
Anon, you’re correct, it was a J2 Visa holder. However, my partner and I have been called faggot numerous times from idiots (usually with PA license plates) driving along Rehoboth Avenue.
Comment by anon on 17 July 2010 at 11:16 am:
“Why isn’t “conservative” considered a slur in the US?”
I recall when when “Liberal” became a slur, it became “OK for people to call others faggot, n****r, spic, kike, or other racially insensitive pejoratives.”
The best man at my wedding was gay. He still is for that matter. I gave the best man’s toast at his commitment ceremony in DC. I’m just laying out my gay street cred to say that I recently used the word “faggoty” in the podcast that nobody listens to. I suppose I shouldn’t have. I was trying to express “extreme and flamboyant girlishness in men” in shorthand. Although, I’m not sure “extreme and flamboyant girlishness in men” is any better. Also, I knew nobody would hear it.
I, like anon, had my teen years pass me by during the 90s so I can definitely identify with his take on the epithets. I distinctly remember when I bought the NOFX album “White Trash, Two Heebs and a Bean” and saw in the liner notes that it was supposed to be called “White Trash, Two Kikes, and a Spic” (but the record label made them change it) I had to look up kike because I had no clue what it meant. I wanna say I was probably 15-16 at that time. Spic I had only heard rarely, and most likely only by one of my grandparents or another much older individual.
I do remember in school people throwing around retarded / retard a lot but (despite not having friends / family with developmental disabilities) I was never one to use it. Something about it just seemed worse than racial / ethnic / sexual orientation type epithets.
For the record, in my own household growing up the only epithets I really remember hearing from one of my parents was polock, which usually referred to one of my uncles who just happened to be both Polish and a little odd. One of my grandmothers always used the term “colored,” which I just found funny because…well obviously all people’s skin is colored, those colors just happen to vary. The other grandmother, according to my parents, would occasionally drop N-bombs but I honestly don’t ever remember hearing her do so.
Anyway, getting back to MJ’s original question, I think it all goes to a sense of familiarity and intent in using the terms. If someone who is different from you calls you by some name, I think what’s insulting about it is that it implies they are judging your worth without knowing you – which is a harsh, saddening thing to have to deal with. I don’t think it’s ever really “OK” to judge someone like that with no grounds other than what they look like or other superficial factors. Now is it “OK” to throw around the same terms with people you know (friends / family / etc.)? I think so, as long as it’s obvious that the intent is not hostile. My best friend and I (both white males), pretty much any time we talk on the phone or online greet one another with by calling each other “cracker,” “jackass,” or something similar. Another friend will occasionally greet me on the phone with “What’s up, my nigga?” – which again is just goofing around, I know the guy not to be a racist.
conservatives (which i consider one of the deepest insults i can sling) like to use the “it is ok when they call each other that” defense, and since white christian men have taken EVERYTHING from everyone else to build their society, they get upset when the “lessers” have things they dont… like use of certain words.
They like to say ” we are making everyone equal” by using those words and say it is ok if someone called them “cracker” (as if that has ANYWHERE close to the sting that the N word does…
btw mj, why did you censor nigger but none of the other words?)
in any case it will never be ok. Those words are all words used by white christians (american and european) to oppress the minorities they label. Let them… even for a second start to use them without retribution and they will once again try to push their control further.
jonnyx.. LOVE NoFX and that album… the Decline is wonderful.
Reading through these comments it becomes rather obvious after the first ten, that the words are kind of silly in themselves; it is the intent behind them which creates the problem.
That’s why use of some words sound silly today…
The ones that stick, are meant to anger the other party. Instead of hurling blows, you hurl anger loaded words instead… Since you can’t hit someone while driving down Rehoboth Avenue, you shout oen of these words out the window…
This behavior would go away, if no reaction or the wrong reaction were to occur… If a person got laughed off the street for saying something, and even the next day, while walking the boardwalk, they still saw people snickering at them, because it was all over YouTube, it would go away…
Instead, we make a big deal of it… Now the pejorative word for Afro American, is only in use today, i said only in use today, because it brings up a history of the mistreatment of one fifth of our population..
Using it, will make another angry, and want to retaliate. If they are in a position where they can’t break your jaw, you scored some points… Personally, I think the pejorative hyphenated term, asshole-Republican, would within months of being introduced into society as the acceptable equal of either faggot or nigger, could stop both of those words from being used, especially in an election year that looks like it will wipe out the Republican party into the grave…
Next time you hear a pejorative word, try using it.. Even if the utterer was a Democrat, they would be far too embarrassed at being called an asshole-Republican to ever use those slurs again.
(I was nice: I wanted to use “Boehner-Butt”, but only us educated types even know who he is.. )
MJ, the boorish visa holder who attempted to insult you sounds very Carl Rovian (I hope I didn’t cross a line insulting the visa holder like that).
I don’t know MJ. When is it alright to call people a name that implies that they suck balls ?
Those who live in glass houses blah blah blah.
FBH – I didn’t name the teabaggers, they named themselves. Leave it to you to turn a civil conversation about societal ills into a whine about what your side decided to call your movement. I haven’t said this in a while, but STFU.
STFU ? Real civil MJ. Truth hurt much ?
Teabaggers used to mail teabags to Congressmen, wave teabags around for the cameras, and dump teabags into available bodies of water. So teabags and the bearing and flaunting of teabags are a central part of teabagger imagery, whether they call themselves teabaggers or not.
If you think calling them “teabaggers” means they suck balls, you have a dirty mind.
I am sure the teabagger rate of ball-sucking is no greater than the general population (normalizing for ugliness, of course). The rest of them suck balls only in the metaphorical sense.
a.price said, “white christian men have taken EVERYTHING from everyone else to build their society”
Wow, talk about a racist statement. So I take it your not a big fan of western civilization.
Maybe you should just take your computer and chuck it in the trash.
FBH – the last time I checked, calling the America-hating right wing teabaggers was neither a racial, ethnic, or sexual orientation slur. As for sucking balls, I’m sure your wife/girlfriend/boyfriend/husband/sheep/goat can teach you all you need to know.
But you’re right, I should have been more civil. I should have said PLEASE STFU!
So by your logic MJ, as long as it’s not racial, ethnic, or sexually oriented, a slur or name calling can be used liberally.
What about physical, or mental conditions ? What about personal circumstances or living conditions. Is it OK to call someone “trailer trash” because they live in a trailer ?
That slur isn’t based on one’s housing situation. Sarah Palin, for example — a celebrity worshipper and money grubber who lives in a nice house — is trailer trash.
FBH – perhaps if you’d went back to read the entire thread and comprehend what was being said, you’d be able to stay on message. But that’s not the teabagger way, is it? Y’all just jump in and go off topic as you see fit.
Be gone and let the adults have a discussion here. Don’t you have your own sandbox to play in or is Bill Colley boring your today (as he does the rest of us every day of the week)?
BTW, we’d never make fun of your double-wide, seeing that you placed all of that astro turn around the outside.
Don’t be dissing the astro turf.
BTW, we like to refer to it as manufactured grass.
You don’t have to mow astroturf. I definitely see the advantage of that.
And the pre-marked yardage lines might help w/ the garden.
anon@11:40 rules.
Although I’m coming in late to this debate,I’d like to point out the fact that any of these offensive and vulgar racial or sexual slurs only have the power to OFFEND you that YOU give them.
Words are merely words.When you string words together and an idea or construct is put forth that you find hateful,then get MAD,FIGHTING MAD!
FBH, it can be proven by history… something the Right is not a fan of.. that this great nation exists because of exploitation by white Christian men. Exploitation of Africans, the native people, the first conquerors (Spanish)… everyone. everyone?
yes. everyone. Even non-WASP whites got the shit end of the stick here in America, and for that matter whole other continents and peaceful emplires were raped by white Christian Europeans. Either because they were religeous zealots and terrorists (crusades) or money hungry Market worshiping pigs (africa).
Sure the rewards (if you can call our exploitative society rewarding) exist , but do you people (yes i said it) really need to be able to have total control over everything?
Fact is there is no comparable word for WASPs. yeah you can MEAN that as an insult, but it doesn’t carry the hundreds of years of exploitation that comes with the N word. You, FBH.. or any other conservative will NEVER understand what your heritage put so many people through. It is best you just shut up and stop playing the victim.
i used to think that skip, but i disagree now. I’d like to hear a black person tell me the N word being yelled at them by some southern fat white pig only hurts if he chooses to let it hurt before im ready to give that theory a chance.
I guess y’all forgot about calling gun owners fat white pig bed-wetting cunts?
I guess y’all forgot about calling gun owners fat white pig bed-wetting cunts?
They’re not ALL fat.
Zing! (Much better than my intended response.)
Well, the ones crying about not being able to say every racial slur they want look like Glenn Beck. I bet they also want to protect themselves from the savages they want to offend. And since they are American and white… statistically, they are overweight… of course kaveman, this all is only offensive if you choose to let it be.
I also never said they were cunts. or bed wetting. But I guess ya hear accusations when you have a guilty conscience.
I suppose this is what happens to a society when you start bowing down to a false idol (Golden Free Market Calf….. blessings of money be unto HIM)
Welcome to America my friends a country full of retarded hypocrites.
I can go to church on Sunday and find someone that would be offended at me calling someone the N-word but probably find them ok with collateral damage.