Pick The Hill To Die On
First, let’s talk about reality. The US Senate is the most ridiculous legislative body on earth. It has a lot of rules and runs by unanimous consent. It is a major cause of the government disfunction right now. Also, Republicans control the media. They have their own 24/7 media outlet and it is treated by the rest of the media like a legitimate news outlet. Republicans have the ability to get any story they want covered by the media. Here’s the reality:
- Reoublicans have enough Senators to stop any legislation they want.
- Republicans don’t get punished for being nihilists.
- Republicans have stated their top priority – making sure Obama is not re-elected.
Is this really surprising then?
WASHINGTON — Not even 24 hours after President Obama met with senior Republican Congressional leaders and expressed hopes for a “new dialogue,” renewed partisan fury engulfed the Senate on Wednesday, as Republicans threatened to block any legislation until a deal is reached to extend the expiring Bush-era tax cuts, potentially derailing the Democrats’ busy end-of-year agenda.
The blunt threat was made in a letter to the majority leader, Harry Reid of Nevada, and signed by all 42 Senate Republicans. And it was reiterated by the Republican leader, Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, in a speech in which he accused Democratic leaders and Mr. Obama of ignoring the midterm election results.
That means no START treaty ratification, no DADT repeal, no DREAM act unless Republicans get their way. The rumor is that the vote will be for extending all tax cuts for 3 years. Although the House will vote only on middle class tax cuts and perhaps they have the ability to hold up the House vote on the 3-yr extension.
What’s the alternative? Letting all the tax cuts expire and as many have said come back with the shiny new “Obama tax cuts” in the next session. You know, the session where Republicans control the legislative agenda in the House. The session where DADT will never get voted on, the DREAM act is only a dream and perhaps we can get a vote on START, but there’s a whole group of new Republicans with stupid demands in exchange.
So my question is – what hill do we want to die on? Personally I’d like to see the Bush tax cuts die because I think they’re bad for the economy. However, this is the first negotiation in a while where Obama has something the Republicans want. Is it really so bad to compromise and gain something in return? I guess the problem I’m having right now with the tax cut purity on the left is that it seems to accept the right’s premise that taxes and deficit are the most important issues right now. I don’t agree with that.
Tags: Obama Administration, Senate, Tax Cuts
It’s a shame we don’t have effective negotiators. Here is how it should be played.
Right now, we eliminate the Tax Cuts. We roll that elimination effective back to 2009, so all the money earned this year gets taxed as it did during the golden years of the 1990’s.
Then, starting 2011, we act like Republicans and stall every attempt to reinstate them over the next two years. We can do it.
That is how you govern.
Reoublicans have enough Senators to stop any legislation they want.
Democrats have enough Presidents to stop any legislation we don’t want.
I guess the problem I’m having right now with the tax cut purity on the left is that it seems to accept the right’s premise that taxes and deficit are the most important issues right now. I don’t agree with that.
So now you are using the P word for Democrats who oppose tax cuts for the rich? How far we Democrats have fallen.
What do you think the most important priority is?
The urgency for letting the tax cuts expire is that it is the last chance for any revenue options. After 12/31 all revenue options will be off the table, and the entire political debate will consist of “negotiating” with Republicans about how much to cut spending.
But if after 12/31 the tax cuts for the rich float back up to the Clinton levels or even to the “Candidate Obama 2008” levels, then as the economy recovers that additional revenue will be captured, reducing the deficit and improving Democrats’ 2012 prospects.
Not to mention, if you really don’t think taxes are the priority right now, then wouldn’t you be in favor of the “do nothing, let them expire” option? or the full veto?
“Then, starting 2011, we act like Republicans and stall every attempt to reinstate them over the next two years. We can do it.”
NO we cant. You know that will not happen. The Right wing media will never allow the democrats to do that. The Republicans will lie like the scum they are and the morons who make up the electorate will forget the past 2 years and accept whatever reality is spoon fed to them by glenn beck. Any democrat blocks any republican bill (keep in mind, calling bills “the american act for americans” actually works in this country) they will be branded a traitor and put on Bill-o’s hit list.
I dont know the answer anymore. I’m starting to realize the game is rigged in their favor.
I think most would say the economy is the main issue right now.
Every business has raised their prices to get through the economy. The US government needs to do the same.
Obviously you don’t go to a pan handler and ask him for money. You ask rich people for money. The wealthy have too much money to spend. That is simply the problem.. There are way too few of them… They can’t go to the malls and spend fast enough. It is physically impossible…
But.. if we tax them and take 95% of the money they can’t spend, .. remember.. this is not taking anything away from them… we are only talking about money THEY CAN’T SPEND BECAUSE THEY HAVE SO MUCH.
But if we take 95% of that cash and give it to people who have nothing to do but walk up and down malls and go through cash register lines, this economy will take off…
It is so simple. Expire the tax cuts so we all make more money…
Hey, if I had my choice I think they should all expire. The problem is related to what I said above. Republicans own the media. They’ll spend the next 2 years talking about Democrats raised your taxes. That’s the reality we’re facing now.
mistermix breaks down what I’m talking about at Balloon Juice.
Obama still wants to get things done and he’s dealing with nihilists. That’s why I say, pick your battles. We can let the tax cuts expire but we need to realize that the president is trying to balance a lot of other priorities as well.
We aren’t hungry enough yet to tax the rich.
Right now we are content to rationalize the poor away as if they had done something to deserve their plight. If you work for a company that is laying people off you will know what I mean.
There will come a tipping point where enough Americans have to cancel their vacations, cancel their annual iGadgets with the monthly bills, cancel the cable TV, get rid of one or two cars, and run out of groceries at the end of the month anyway. When that happens, whichever party is in power will have to tax the rich and create jobs immediately.
Failing to let the tax cuts expire is like throwing a ball at the ground and missing.
Reid and Obama both have the power to let them all expire.
A nice commenter just said this:
The Right wing media will never allow the democrats to do that. The Republicans will lie like the scum they are and the morons who make up the electorate will forget the past 2 years and accept whatever reality is spoon fed to them by glenn beck. Any democrat blocks any republican bill (keep in mind, calling bills “the american act for americans” actually works in this country) they will be branded a traitor and put on Bill-o’s hit list.
Exactly Coward. (just kidding to make a point).. 🙂
And one could argue that is the Achilles heal of the Democratic Party.
Chicken.
It would be nice to see someone throwing punches in defense of the America people… before they descend to the 35% positive polling level. Usually when they get desperate, they actually become pretty good candidates. Then it’s too late…
Recognizing this and ramming it up Republican’s asses, is what made Bill Clinton the best president so far in our lifetimes. And Wall Street affectionately said they loved him for it. lol.
( In Tyler Nixon’s defense, Teddy Roosevelt did exactly the same thing.. 🙂 )
“Again, capitulation is inevitable. It’s unthinkable that the US won’t ratify START, so the Bush tax cuts will be extended.”
It is beyond me why the president is NOT on prime time TV telling the American people how dangerous the GOP is being. Cast them as the enemy of america that they are. Do to them what decades of conservative tyranny did to the terms “liberal” and “progressive”
After everything the right wing has done to this country…. everything they stood for. From alligence to George the III all the way to provoking a nuclear frenemy (russia) to win an election. They are the bane of this country and SHOULD have no place at the table in running the show.
“I dont know the answer anymore. I’m starting to realize the game is rigged in their favor.”
Stupid reality always getting in the way of socialist dreams.
ha, ha anon…. or a better analogy…
Failing to let the tax cuts expire,would like having a must win game in a Series, still being one run down at the bottom of the ninth, with two outs expired, having worked your way up to a 3-2 count, with every base loaded,…….
then not even swinging…
That is what we’re talkin’ about.
Swing, damn it!
POTUS cant FORCE them to do anything, but he sure can destroy them in the immage game. I have no doubt that Obama feels uncomfortabel playing the petty politics that always works for the GOP. It is however the only way to beat them. fight shitmist with shitmist.
just me,
unless you are a wall-street millionaire with off shore tax shelter, the game is rigged against you too. (against me? CANT BE! I VOTE REPUBLICAN!!!!) yes, you. you are a pawn in their game and they laugh at you while they find new ways to let your kids die.
Let’s just hope when the corporations… who cant be unelecte d…. come for you, there is a social minded person in office who can fight for you…. as long as the congress hasnt “free marketed” your rights away to the all powerful and all knowing CEOs.
Hey “Just me..”
The Revolution was rigged in the British’s favor. The Battle of New Orleans was rigged in British’s favor. The battle over Texas was rigged in the Mexican’s favor. The first years of the Civil War were rigged in the South’s favor. The Second World War during its first years were rigged in favor of the Axis powers. The first years of the Cold War in Europe were rigged in the Soviet’s favor. l The Super Bowl between the Giants and the undefeated Patriots, was certainly rigged in the Patriots favor….
None of those rigs worked… because the other side never gave up…
Put away your tissue and join the fight and start swinging.. Help me out and take this guy off my right…. He’s wide open…
kapvis, thank you for re-opening that wound.
effing ryan howard.
exactly. 🙁
Lets face it folks the Dem’s had 60 votes and got nothing done the White House gave up the public option before talks began and now it appears they are about to cave on Tax Cuts also read Dion’s column in today’s Wash Post he hits the nail on the head. The party lacks a strong leader. Will Rogers was correct when he said ” I don’t belong to any organized party I am a Democrat”
The reason the president is not on tv calling the GOP out for what they are… is that it is bad politics to come across as the aggressor on tv.. WE are a democracy and politicians who do better, are those ones being seen as coming to … the people’s defense.
Which is why single payer Health Care, (which is a no brainer) had such a difficult time. It’s detractors stole the “we’ll protect you” line from us, and sold it better.. We should have floated the “someone needs to protect you from these wealthy executive’s” line.. It would have taken only one commercial…
After their first salvo, we need to fire back with a full broadside. Remember, they have lies backing up every single one of their claims. We have solid truth. And they can’t win if the truth gets out.
That is why each of us needs to re-evaluate our roles as patriots. Are we too timid to express our views in the real world? Are we too scared to call out “that’s bullshit” every time a Republican speaks? Until we do so, the myths of Republicans will continue.
Truth Teller…
The Continental Army lost every battle up to Trenton and Princeton. Yet they won the war.
You did identify a problem. Now.. it’s time to repair, fix, and move on.
We made a calculated missed call. WE soft-peddled to keep Democrats in their predominately Republican districts, in order to hold on to a majority. ok.. so it didn’t work.
Time to change and move this country forward over Republicans dead bodies. Don’t underestimate our commander in chief… 🙂
Remember who we’re talking about.. President Obama, Vice President Biden, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Robert Gates, Eric Holder, Steven Chu, Tom Vilsack, Ken Salazar.
Has there ever been a better group?
We need us, you and me, to get off our asses and start beating up the Republicans in day to day conversations. We don’t have to hit them, just point out their lies…. It’s really easy and the adrenalin rush is sort of addictive… (don’t worry about getting hurt.. they always run with tail tucked between their legs… )
“The reason the president is not on tv calling the GOP out for what they are… is that it is bad politics to come across as the aggressor on tv.. WE are a democracy and politicians who do better, are those ones being seen as coming to … the people’s defense.”
it is exactly what the GOP does and it works for them every time. It worked for them when they controlled POTUS and congress. I dont care anymore about flat out calling my fellow americans the enemy. If they are hurting the country and the future, they must be stopped.
I dont think the “we’ll protect you from the wealthy executives” line can work anymore. people are still humping that american dream that one day THEY can be the exploitative CEO. No one wants to accept that their life will never be anything more than a 2 story moderate sized house in a decent neighborhood. So they continue to vote for the people who claim they can make it rain gold and white people. As their standard of living declines, they keep voting for the same snake-oil salesmen and blame it on the people who want to keep them healthy… or the people who are worse off than them.
Using this strategy and budget reconciliation in the US Senate, Democrats likely have the votes to pass middle-class-only extensions without Republican support.
And I think the issue is not that the left accepts the deficit crisis premise per se but that we think the rich shouldn’t be getting huge tax cuts right now, when that money could be spent on further stimulus, unemployment insurance (remember it just expired because we need to “pay for it” supposedly), or a whole host of other things.
So this kind of would be a fairly good hill to die on, though I’m not sure I would.
Talk about “dying on a hill” over middle class tax cuts is just more tacit acceptance of Republican framing. Most Americans are opposed to extending tax cuts for the rich. Why are Democrats afraid of doing it?
Middle class tax cuts would be the easiest victory ever for Democrats. It would be one hell of a hill to be standing on top of with your foot on your opponent’s throat.
I agree Bill that the left is not part of the deficit hysteria. However Dems are criticizing the cuts as adding to the deficit which gives quite a muddled message. Instead they could argue that Republicans agree that not all programs need to be paid for right away in a recession.
I think the argument is more that the Republicans are hypocrites on the deficit, although Obama unfortunately had bought into the whole “can’t afford these extensions right now” line before confusing his message even more.
Arguing that “Republicans are hypocrites” is just more pissing into the wind. The only way to make it stick is to force Republicans into difficult votes over and over again that expose their hypocrisies and preserve them in the voting record. And if we keep doing that, we might even start winning some of those votes. Anything else won’t work and makes us weaker.
Are you F@$%!*& kiddin’ me UI? The Liberal Mainstream Media has controlled broadcast news, print and the entertainment world forever!
MSNBC is merely an extension of Valerie Jarret’s Office of Outreach and Community Engagement team! Heck, Obama called out Maddow AND Olbermann specifically for ‘fighting the good fight’ for liberals vis-a-vis Fox News without specifically mentioning Fox News.
It don’t get no more biased than that (president giving you props). And how about the disgraceful ‘JournOlist’ group of reporters and newspersons? Let’s see, how can we intentionally praise Obama in an erstwhile neutral media complex? To me, Ezra Klein has so tainted his credibility and his ability to remain partial in his reporting after his JournOlist fraternity was busted, he’s now seen as merely a progressive talking head, regardless of his overall talent.
@kavips-“Remember who we’re talking about.. President Obama, Vice President Biden, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Robert Gates, Eric Holder, Steven Chu, Tom Vilsack, Ken Salazar.”
Are you fucking kidding me and every one else on here?
Biden’s kept on a SHORT leash, Gates and Hillary got ’em. Obama and the rest checked their balls into a bank vault to be held ’til they perform to their TRUE MASTERS specifications.
“EVERYTHING is laid waste, even words have lost their luster.”-A remembered line from a forgotten author.
I am so FUCKING disgusted and disappointed in this pussy in the White house, I am seriously considering leaving this country I love.
Madness,sheer madness.
Polemical,
NO ONE watches MSNBC. so they are irrelevant. Fox news is broadcast to twice as many homes as MSNBC because of various cable packages so if oyu are going by reach alone, the “right wing bias” wins out.
“but socialist ben, what about CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS….”
first of all, it is socialistIC ben. second of all, they ALL do the same stupid “balance crap” where they have a measured intelegent liberal on one side and mention the crazy (w)Right wing ramblings as fact so they can give the illusion of balance.
guess what, REALITY has a liberal bias.
The other “news” outlets (not Faux news or MSNBC) are also too stupid and ratings oriented to have any bias at all. They report what they think will get them viewers. anyone who screams “THE LEFT WING MEDIA IS OUT GO GET US!!” has been brainwashed by the Family research Council or the American Patriots for American children” or whatever other vapid right wing bigot group is out there.
OF COURSE MNSBC is biased…. but as long as we are mentioning ties to presidential administrations… Faux news has… AS THEIR EMPLOYEES probably 4 people who will run for president as a far right republican. they have a former architect of a political power house as a main “contributor” and constantly talk about how wonderful (OPINION) conservatism is.
take your charges of a liberal media and shove them up your ass.
I AM a liberal. proud to be one too.,.. and I WISH we had a media outlet anywhere close to the propaganda machine the right wing has… we wouldn’t even have to put any resources into making shit up.
Whiners. Democrats still have more power, more media, and more money. They just have no idea how to use power. They ruined themselves with a radical, misfocused agenda. Instead of crazy stuff like global climate change, dividing themselves over abortion funding, and DADT, they should have focused on a real populist economic agenda rebuilding the middle class.
Democrats are doomed and it is their fault not the then hapless Republican Party which was broke, shell shocked,leaderless, and visionless. Thanks! In the end, Democrats always seem to self destruct.
Republican David is pretty much correct!
We should have forced the Repubs to actually filibuster the important bills, to send the true message.
Now, on the tax cuts, we should insist on Obama’s campaign promise in the Senate, with the House bill already passed, and make them filibuster, to send the message. If the result is that the tax cuts expire, it is on them, plus, we don’t add to the deficit.
Same with extending unemployment payments, let them filibuster that bill too.
It is time to play hardball with these nihilists, because obviously the compromise approach has not worked. Enraged and empowered middle class voters will then set the repubs straight politically, and we can watch them self-destruct for a change!
Filibustering is easy – the filibusters only need to have one person on the floor at all times to succeed whereas the vote for cloture requires at least 60 aye votes on the floor. This is why Reid hasn’t made them filibuster – it is too easy to do successfully and it wastes everybody’s time.