UPDATED: Democrats For Kovach (or whatever loser they pick to run against Carney)
This is the perfect opportunity to throw away a “message” vote. There is no way Carney is going to lose to that RWNJ freak Kovatch. Nor will he lose whatever loser that runs in place of Kovack.
Both Carney and the eventual Republican candidate will be talking about how goddam important it is to cut the deficit and reduce benefits for Senior “current medicaid recipients will not be effected” ™ and veterans, so why the fuck not vote for the Republican dumbass this time out?
When Carney has to sweat out a closer than expected 52/48 win on election night – maybe he’ll go back to Washington with a clear head.
Sign up in the comments section. Let’s get this done.
UPDATE: It is even better that it is Kovash. This way Carney will really have to pretend to be a Democrat for at least a little while during the campaign.
Not voting for Kevin Wade no how. Although I have no idea how I might feel after I spend the next few months hearing about bipartisanship rather than employment or demand.
The thing is, if you follow Carney’s Facebook page, he is getting cheered on for this bipartisanship that gets you nowhere. Time for him to hear more routinely from people who understand the stakes.
But it would be good to coordinate an effort to get some questions answered whenever he shows up to talk to his constituents.
I’m down with that. In the meantime, I need to help get the Wade Express on the tracks.
Um, Jason, unless I missed something, Kovach is running against Carney. Wade is running against Carper. You mean Carper, don’t you?
Kovach is a serious enough candidate that you cannot waste your vote in that race. Waste it in the Senate race
Good point. I’ll have to write in Wade 🙂
For Carney’s race, the plan I am thinking of is not to waste my vote. The plan is for Carney to lose.
I guess I better go check out this Wade guy before I get in any deeper.
“Kovach is a serious enough candidate that you cannot waste your vote in that race.”
I disagree. Kovach all the way. Carney better get ready for the “left” hook from team Kovach.
No way I’m voting for Wade but I am very reluctant to label Kovach a RWNJ. I voted for him for NCC Prez when the Dem was a jerk and I’m tempted to do it again.
Kovach is a teaparty loving nut job. It is on film. There is no way he beats Carney. All Dems are 100% free to protest vote on this one.
Sorry, can’t sign up for this. I will never willfully vote for an evil Republican, and it is a rare occasion where I will work to see a Democrat lose (especially if I cannot guarantee a Democrat will take his place and win the general). I am not a purist.
(By the way, the kind of thinking behind this thread is IDENTICAL to the thinking of the teabagger Republicans in 2010 downstate. Proof enough that the political spectrum is not a straight line. It is a circle.)
“Kovach is a teaparty loving nut job. It is on film”
Carney doesn’t have the nerve to use it. Wouldn’t be bipartisan.
DD – I respect your commitment and your values, but the beauty is that there is no way in hell the Democrat loses. He only wins by less by parroting the stupid Republican BS that tax cuts help the economy and poor people have too much money.
DD, I have never voted for a Repub, except maybe I voted for Mike Castle once or twice before I knew better.
But exactly what difference would it make to vote for Carney’s opponent, other than violating your own personal purity? What legislation would turn out differently?
As long as control of the House is not at stake, it’s a gamble I’m willing to take. Clear out Carney and start over in two years. Or just give him a well-deserved scare.
Our vote appears to be the only meaningful tool we have to stop Carney’s support for Republican policies.
And if you can’t bring yourself to vote for Carney’s opponent, write in your favorite Democrat.
I feel a Kovast groundswell building on the left. Verily, Carney is going to be shitting his pants in a fortnight!!
Do I have to remind everyone how Castle voted lock step with everything the GOP leadership wanted when they controlled Congress from 1995 until 2007? God forbid Kovach wins, and the Democrats do not take back the House, then you all will be DIRECTLY responsible for every piece of teabag legislation that passes.
Control of the the House of Representatives will be at stake in 2012. The Dems only need 25 seats and the DCCC has been actually very good in recruiting candidates. So it makes absolutely no sense to handicap the Dems efforts there. But go ahead, do what you want. You will only continue in proving to me how idiotic purists are.
As for what legislation will turn out differently: today the Rethugs failed to pass a balanced budget amendment. Carney did vote against it. But you kind fools want to give Boner another Republican foot soldier that will vote in favor of it.
Look, I am not a fan of Carney’s mealy mouthed bipartisan fetish, but he has not voted for Republican bills put forward by Boner and Cantor. So you want to replace him with someone who will.
Absolutely idiotic.
I think I’ll put up a “Democrats for Kovak” blog tomorrow. The tag line will be: “Why the fuck not vote for the Republican dumbass this time out?”
honestly, if Carney sees a lot of people voting for Kovatscht, he’ll probably take it as a signal to be more right wing.
DD – Moron Kovack isn’t gonna win. That’s the brilliant part of this caper. 50% of Delaware Democrats could vote for him and Carney will still cruise.
I haven’t crunched the numbers, but I think it is around 50%.
“Kovatscht”
AWESOME!!!
Jason must be drinking. You started early today, didn’t you? Hey, its Friday, I don’t blame you. But remember the Golden Rule: Never blog when drunk.
i did that for you, Jason
I’m high on a feeling. A feeling that Carney is going to hear the clue phone ringing sooner rather than later.
he’s carper’s political grand-son. if losing his promised governorship to markell wasnt a wake up call, he’s lost
My arms are too short to box with Carper. One thing at a time.
It’s Kovach, not Kovak or Kovat.
And while Carney may not have voted for bills put forward by the House Majority, he does go back and offer rewritten versions — as in the Balanced Budget business. House Dems are not in charge of the legislative agenda, which is a thing I get, but I want people representing me who get what the priorities are. I wold have been plenty happy — bipartisanship or no — if Carney was out asking every day, Mr. Boehner, where are the jobs?
No doubt that Kovach would go Full Metal Wingnut the minute he gets into Congress. But then Kovach will have also gotten what he was sent to Congress for.
“Do I have to remind everyone how Castle voted lock step with everything the GOP leadership wanted when they controlled Congress from 1995 until 2007? ”
Stop looking at the vote count. Castle was the master at gaming his vote. Did Castle ever once cast a deciding vote on anything that mattered?
From 1995-2007, the House would have had the exact same results with Carney instead of Castle (hypothetically).
“he has not voted for Republican bills put forward by Boner and Cantor”
Didn’t he vote for the debt deal that left out tax increases and created the Commission?
I’ll agree the control of the House would bear watching before casting a vote in anger.
Cassandra, I’m loving this two pronged approach. Good cop/bad cop. We’ll learn these motherfuckers!!
Thanks Puck. That is really all I am asking for here. Be smart. If we can win back the House as the election approaches, it will look quite foolish if we lose the majority by 1 vote.
Practically speaking, if we eke out a House majority, the Blue Dogs, apparently including Carney, will screw us out of any meaningful change.
Just like they did before.
There IS an alternative to voting for Kovach or voting for Carney. That is to vote for nobody.
Voting for a Republican or not voting will make Democrats more left! This is the type of genius thinking that have given us 30 years of the Republican revolution. Politicians go where the money and energy are. This is not difficult to understand. I guess it’s true that the only thing we learn from history is that we don’t learn from history.
My esteemed colleague is entitled to her opinion, but the evidence shows that voting for Democrats that act like Republicans is EXACTLY what has gotten us into this mess. Talk about lacking energy. Could the Democratic Party do more to de-energize its base? It is tough to imagine.
But listen – I would not undertake this if I thought it would lead to a Republican victory. I never want Republicans to win anything. I’ve taken a lot of shit for saying that the worst Democrat is better than the best Republican.
Kovash can’t beat Carney. Therefore all left of center Democrats should vote for Kovax. If Carney has nothing to fear for throwing Democratic Party principals under the bus, why shouldn’t he go right ahead and follow the Carper model to his lifetime bipartisan fetishist sinecure?
The media has no tools for detecting opposition from the left. It would just look like a wave of Republican support. The no-vote thing might work better. Or a third-party candidacy.
I agree with UI. The base on the left doesn’t get the love because we can’t be counted on to vote for the D candidate.
Candidates court votes – mainly dependable votes. Why would a candidate spend time on voters he/she isn’t sure will show up at the polls? Example: If 18 – 25 year olds regularly turned out to vote en masse they would change the political narrative. It’s why seniors get wined and dined.
I can’t really believe we’re going through this stupidity again. Remember in 2000 when some lefties were convinced that Bush & Gore are exactly the same and it wouldn’t make a difference who won? How did that work out?
The only way to change things your way is to show up and tell them what you think. Why did the teabaggers take ove rthe GOP? It’s because they voted and because they ran primary opponents. If you want to effect Carney or Carper, find a primary opponent for them – a viable one, a serious one.
Why does the “only answer” always require the use of unobtainium? We already have a tool everybody can use – our vote.
The good news is our plans aren’t mutually exclusive. UI can be on the “primary opponent recruiting team,” while Jason leads the “Use your vote wisely” team. It’s Good Cop/Bad Cop/Smart Cop!
Please understand: Based on his policies, Carney is now the opposition. A Carney victory is no longer a win for Democrats. Don’t give Carney your vote unless you agree with him. If Kovach happens to win, it is like sacrificing a pawn to get in better position to win the game.
Coons and Carper are now the opposition too, but Carney is more vulnerable, and the downside risk is lower in the House than in the Senate (but still significant). But the risk of doing nothing is is higher.
Mentioning Bush v Gore is like deagging in Hitler. Nobody can ever vote against a crappy democrat ever again because Bush might get elected. UI is smart enough to know that her argument is specious.
Yes, this time voting for Republicans will totally lead to liberal utopia. Gosh I’m stupid.
UI, serious Democrats from the Democratic wing aren’t going to waste their time and money challenging Carney in a primary. But they might consider challenging Kovach in 2014. Delaware Democrats could benefit from two years of reflection.
I think with Jason on voter education, UI on recruiting, and Cassandra on spellcheck, we have a viable team. Carney’s got to hear us now!
The only way to influence a D candidate and move them to the left is to primary them. That’s where withholding your vote will count. No primary = no leftward movement in the general.
In Carney’s case (and I’m very unhappy with him) I don’t think he’s counting on the left for sure votes. I think that he wrote the left off after his primary with Markell and is searching for Markell’s moderate Dems and Republican voters. I think, and I could be wrong, that he, and other Ds, are trying to add votes without relying on the left. Which seems to be a disheartening, but winning strategy.
Voting as a form of punishment is not effective. You won’t change minds that way. You will, however, elect Republicans and more Blue Dogs. Even a protest vote which leads to a narrow win by the Dem will be viewed as a reason to move right – after all, there wasn’t clear liberal support, therefore don’t go left.
I too am tired of the bluedog tendencies in the Delaware Democratic delegation, but the place to challenge them is not in the general election. They need to be challenged in the party primary, it worked in the governor’s race. These guys head to the center because no one is demanding that they uphold the party’s more progressive ideals.
“UI, serious Democrats from the Democratic wing aren’t going to waste their time and money challenging Carney in a primary.” – Puck
Right, because finding a candidate that supports your principals and getting off your butt and actually doing the leg work required to turn those principals into action is futile. Tell that to Markell. It wasn’t supposed to be his turn to be governor.
Seemed to work fine for the Tea Baggers and Christine O’Donnell. They got rid of Castle, now they can run against the leftist/marxist/socialist/liberal that (they think) Carney is.
The protest vote is easy because you don’t have to do anything but complain on the blogosphere.
You can’t win if you don’t play. Get a candidate and run.
Amen!
Hey, cassandra_m, I am still waiting for you to announce your primary challenge to Carper. It would be “The Scold versus The Old.”
I would think it is nearly impossible to be a viable progressive Democratic candidate in a statewide race in DE because DE is deeply embedded w/ big business and the DE Dems have been as responsible for that as the Repubs. A progressive Dem would have to challenge that arrangement and yet be funded sufficiently to win a statewide race. That would be difficult to pull off.
DelawareLefty: “These guys head to the center because…”
These guys have a long walk leftward to get back to the center.
There aren’t a lot of Markells out there. Until they turn up, I’ve got nothing but my vote and my voice to use.
The way to change the dynamic is to get a primary challenger. It will not be easy. I think Carper would be a better target than Carney but maybe Carney is more vulnerable because he’s a freshman. I don’t know.
What you would need to put a scare in Carney or Carper is someone who has enough money to campaign full-time. So, someone wealthy & semi-retired or someone very wealthy. I don’t know who’s out there that meets that criteria. It would need to be someone very committed.
Im voting for Tim Kovach and against John Carney. None of my well meaning but misguided friends has said anything to disabuse me of the notion that Carney will react to any message other than losing votes for his shit headedness.
The more I think about this, the more I am convinced that Republicans win elections (on terrible un popular positions ) because Republican voters ONLY vote for candidates that support a basic Republican brand position.
While democrats will make a million excuses to voye for any damn doofus with a “D” behind his name.
You people are pathetic.I thought Delaware Liberal was a serious Progressive Blog. Is everyone that opens Delaware Liberal come under the influence of some mass electronic hallucigen. The odds of beating Carney in the next general election are about the same odds as being struck by lightning and eaten by a polar bear on the same day. you need to forego whatever vicarious fullfillment and empowerment you derive from the wanton trashing of an intelligent good person that recognizes that the solution to the serious problems of this country will be effected by bi partisan moderates. The right wing of the republican party{particularly the tea party} and the left wing of the Democratic Party (witness the instant blog discussion} are stridently and hysterically dogmatic irrational and destructive. If your serious about having your views represented in the important decisions that will be made in the next several years,you need to pull up your big girl panties and start acting that rational, responsible patriotic adults.For those that didn’t read my response to Jason last night, there’s a wonderfully appropriate quote by John Fowles in his novel The Magus. “Cynacism masks the inability to cope”
Cynicism is telling the truth in the most unpleasant way possible. Someone said that. Gandhi I think. Ghandi or legendary iceladic strongman, Magnus Ver Magnussen. .
Jason, that’s a pretty effete response to what you should have considered a challenge to your juvenile approach to serious problems. Coward that you are you bully in absentia. Not intellectually flattering nor very manly, I might add. You obvoiusly get a vicarious thrill from this sort of pseudo-intellectual masterbation.
“the left wing of the Democratic Party”
The what?
Puck, IS THAT ALL YOU GOT?????? What’s the confusion? “liberal wing of the democratic party” common phrase posssibly used to the point of being hackneyed. Is there some progessive nuance I’m not in on?
ummm im kinda dumb
but is sisyphus kinda like syphilis??
Fowles? Really? And I’m the effete pseudo intellectual. Hmmm… Here is how i see it. Magnus Ver Magnussen is 100 times more blue collar than Fowles. In a quote-off Magnus Ver Magnussen would mop the motherfucking floor with Fowels. And English isn’t even Magnus Ver Magnussen”s first language.
Cookiepus, glad your library card is working out for ya!
What’s the next clever response “your sister’s fat” I wandered onto Delawre liberal looking for substantive liberal discussion and instead stumbled into a junior high school circle jerk
Well, she is. Good thing there’s beer.
In the spirit of Thanksgiving, stuff it, stinkypus
All the “we need more moderate centrism”….talk kinda tipped your hand as to how much substantive discussion you were interested in. Unless, I suppose, you’ve just awoken from a thirty year coma.
Anyway, peace out. Good luck on adjusting to the modern world. We have gay marriage now, but no vacations on the moon yet, so it is a mixed bag.
I checked the transcript to see if I was wrong to poop on Squishypuss. “You people are pathetic.” That was the first sentence he laid down. Very substantive.
“Cynacism masks the inability to cope”
And bipartisanship masks the inability to strive for something better.
Though I do appreciate the humor of John Carney being one of the “bipartisan moderates” who are going to solve anything, ever.
Maybe I misread your meaning, Sisyphus, but the point is that someone who wants to cut the safety net does NOT represent my views, nor the views of the majority as determined by polling. The goal is to get John Carney to represent OUR views, not for us to reward him for his.
“I wandered onto Delawre liberal looking for substantive liberal discussion and instead stumbled into a junior high school circle jerk”.
Really? I thought you were looking to fill the troll position. There are no current openings.
In response to Geezer who appears to be the only adult commenting, the country has no choice but to make a lot of hard decisions over the next several years. Like it or not,as a result of the present and future division of power, these decisions will be bipartisan and everything will be on the table. The anti Carney braying at the moon on this blog in the last several days is not likely to advance positions consistent with your values. In fact you encourage him to ignore you without peril. Carney in fact is the best voice available to you. Coons is a corporate (Gore) guy that is cosponsoring legislation with Rubio the patron saint of the Tea Party and Carper is more republican than Castle.If you could gather a reasonably civil and responsible group representative of progressive values, I’m sure a progressive like Rebecca Walker the present Chair of the New Castle County Democratic Party could arrange a meeting meeting with Carney.
I’m so hurt that douchie doesn’t think I’m an adult. As for meeting with Mr. Carney, I’m opening my own front in is battle, so feel free to open your own. Many fronts are better than one.
Someone said that. I think it was Bertrand Russel, or perhaps Foghorn Leghorn.
I’m sure that any number of us could arrange a meeting with Mr. Carney — and it isn’t as though a number of us haven’t had the chance to speak to him.
As you can already tell by the tenor of the posts here, Mr. Carney is *already* ignoring us. And making hard choices starts with prioritizing. A re-written balanced budget amendment doesn’t get any of the 14+ million unemployed Americans back to work. Period. A re-written balanced budget amendment only plays the DC game for DC players. Bipartisanship is just fine if it actually accomplishes something other than a chance to preen in the places that will value the look of bipartisanship over any of the work of its accomplishments.
This guys devotion to the virtues off bipartisanship really does make me think that he has been in a coma.
Jason330 wrote:
“This guys devotion to the virtues off bipartisanship really does make me think that he has been in a coma.”
Or on Carney’s staff. Or both. Comatosity seems to be in vogue there.
(BTW, you can’t spell ‘comatosity’ w/o ‘comity’, which, in and of itself, accomplishes nothing.)
I’m a lifelong liberal democrat considered partisan to a fault. I’d be hardly the one to suggest the virtues of bi partisanship or “the Delaware Way” I am however a realist. The economic survival of the country will require Congress make many decisions over the next several years and anybody that know how to count knows that they will require bipartisan consensus. If your serious about preserving the safety net and a fairer distribution of wealth, I suggested that since he’s likely to be your most sympathetic negotiator for at least the next several elections, a more rational strategy might be to establish a dialogue with him instead of wailing in the night.
I call bullshit on everything you just said. But don’t take it from me. Search your heart and your memory and ask yourself if Republicans will be negotiating in good faith, and whether moderate Democrats will be helping create a bi-partisan consensus or just giving Republicans cover.
Take a minute and think about for a second.
…..hmmm…. .
Okay case closed. Enough of your nonsense,. Democrats for Kovach!!!!!!!
Bipartisan consensus, my ass. Had Democrats simply ran Congress like Democrats when they controlled both houses, they’d STILL control both houses.
The problem was, and is, that so-called Blue Dog D’s like Carper and Carney (I know Carney wasn’t there yet, but there were many like-minded ‘Good Jews’) did not support a true Democratic agenda and pushed for compromise with Rethugs who had no interest in compromise.
Tom Carper and John Carney are part of the problem. It is not necessarily surprising in that Delaware is a state in which “what’s good for the banks is good for Delaware”. Or, at least, used to be.
The financial industry has, to a large degree, caused our current problems, and has not faced any sanctions for creating this crisis.
That’s just fine with ‘bipartisans’ like Carper and Carney, who are totally-owned subsidiaries of the financial industry.
Here’s the difference between tea partiers and progressives: What the Tea Party is calling for is completely unrelated to the long-term philosophy of the Republican Party and is demonstrably unpopular with the vast majority of the country. What progressives, at least like me and I think Jason, are calling for are policies that are embraced by the majority of America and used to be the touchstones of the Democratic Party. The Tea Party has successfully led to an abandonment by many Republicans of the roots of the R Party.
Progressives are calling for elected Democrats to govern like Democrats, just like the American people want them to. To the extent that Carper and Carney continue to thumb their noses at real Democrats, they do not deserve our support, and they should be challenged by real Democrats.
Hope this makes sense. We had some great wine along with a sumptuous dinner…
El SOM, you’re right,if two years ago we acted responsibly we would certainly control our destiny. The first two years of the Obama administration and the accompanying Pelosi Congress were a disgrace.Out of pure personal willfullness and selfisness, Obama insisted on passing a comprehensive health care plan that probably single handedly replced at least 25 democratic congressmen with tea party and other less friendly republicans. He put his ego before the country and made health care the number one priority instead of the economy, the unemployed and preserving democratic legislative majorities. He left the stimulus Bill to to Pelosi house which turned it into a Christmas tree that gave the republicans more political fodder. While the economy and the unemployed would have died without it,it was too little and not for a long enough time. A 5 or 10 year plan upgrading the nation infrastrucure would certainly been a step in the right direction. In spite of effectively carrying out Bush’s bailout of the banks, he did virtually nothing to force the banks and lending institutions to aggressively deal in mortgage forbearance and other housing financial assistance that would have prevented a full collapse of the housing market.The most shameful deriliction was his SEC and Justice Department’s failure to prosecute [God bless Beau Biden and the AG from New York] the Wall Street and Mortgage Industry villains that caused this financial collapse.
Okay nit wit. I see some common ground. I agree that Obama erred when treating the Republicans as good faith partners and thereby allowed his initiatives to get watered down. So….Let’s use cancer (bi-partisanship) to cure the cancer (to much bi-partisanship and comity). That makes sense.
Democrats for Kovach!!
BTW – your screwy notions on Obama’s motives ignore the fact that he ran on health care reform and people voted for that.
BTW, It was a bad plan.no single payer and cost control the two monstrous and most obvious flaws. On its passage medical insurance stocks skyrocketed.As for him campaigning on health careand the people voting for it they damned sure didn’t vote for it in the mid term congressional elections.With regard to Obama, let me identify my biases.I voted for Hillary Clinton because I thought she would bring the comptence and leadership of Bill Cinton without an erection and that Obama had neither the leadership skills nor the experience to be President. With all that said I’m scared to death that He’ll lose next year and will do all that I can to support his reelection. As I suggested in earlier postings,unfortunately becoming much to frequent,sometime you only get to pick between bad and worse.Incidentally, I just scratched th surface on the flaws in the Obama Presidency such as supporting the surge in Afghanastan,taking too long to get out of Iraq, the gulf oil spill response,et cetera and ad nauseam
Coons is no different than Carney or their puppetmaster Carper. Carney lied and lied about single payer when he was Lt. Gov and had their opportunity to at least hold a hearing on it. All three are in the pocket of big banks, insurance/credit card companies, big pharma. The democratic party is so lame they can’t get out of their own way, pushing these three blind mice to continue ripping off the citizens of this state. If you want to elect real progressives stop looking at those in “waiting” in the democratic party and find some candidates that will support the wishes of the citizens. The democratic party is as owned and co-opted as the repuke party. Its insanity plus to keep electing the same ole bunch of corporate prostitutes who deliver nothing…the Delaware Way!
I wish we had Pelosi’s Congress back again. Pelosi delivered all of Obama’s signature campaign promises to the Senate. Public option, middle class tax cuts. Real Democrat policies from real Democrats. We won’t see the likes of that again anytime soon.
But Obama and Biden promptly treated his own campaign promises as radioactive. Honest people can disagree on Obama’s most shameful dereliction. For me, it was abandoning his own middle class tax cuts to fail in the Senate, and then signing the Bush tax cuts for the rich. That is what made it safe for Democrats like John Carney to talk about austerity and taking food out of old ladies mouths instead of raising taxes on the rich.
Democrats like John Carney are thrilled to be safely in the minority where (they think) they have zero responsibility to make the hard choices on taxes.