Still too soon to talk about guns & ammo?
I know it totally hurts the NRAs feelings to talk about the easy access that maniacs in this country have to guns and ammo. I know the NRA’s flunkies in congress might tear up if someone suggests that allowing maniacs to buy 20 guns a month and thousands of rounds of ammo online isn’t such a good idea. We have to some compassion for the poor victims of gun control talk. I know all of that. It is just so mean and thoughtless to make anyone think about our absurd gun politics.
That’s why I’m worried that this legislation might be a little lacking in empathy for the NRA.
Democrats introduce bill to limit ammo sales on the internet, ban large-capacity gun magazines
Sen. Frank Lautenberg calls for a ban on high-capacity ammunition magazines and for a dialogue on measures to prevent gun violence at a July 24 press conference. In the wake of the killing of 12 and wounding of 58 in Aurora, Colorado, a handful of elected Democrats have spoken in favor of new gun-control legislation. Or rather renewing old gun-control legislation. There seems to be zero chance any such legislation will pass in 2012. Even the majority of Democrats who would normally vote in favor of stricter gun laws haven’t rushed forward to introduce or support any.
If the gov’t were to limit the number of guns that crazy people can buy, that would really stifle the profitability of gun makers.
They don’t want to risk it.
Believe it or not, I am for stricter gun control. No law abiding citizen should be denied owning firearms, but it shouldn’t be as easy as dropping your money and driver’s license on the counter, and submitting to a cursory background check. And, fuck the NRA. I parted ways with them years ago when they fought for steel core armor piercing bullets.
if we have to keep bazookas guns legal and let all people have access, any time they want, to an item that has one single purpose… to destroy life…. can us “libtard (their word, not mine) hippies” at least get legal pot? maybe someone who is enraged will buy that instead of an AK. Good ‘merkins wont get the chance ot be a hero…. but Tasteycake sales might come roaring back.
Banning the large magazines is a good idea and should have been done years ago (actually, it was). But I don’t see limiting ammo as being useful. It would just piss off the law-abiding target shooters who go through a lot of it, and the crazy shooters planning a massacre would just hoard ammo anyway. Gunshot victims generally don’t go down in a hail of bullets. Better to direct all that political energy toward mental health issues instead.
What other background checks can be applied. I don’t know what other states do, but Delaware does a state criminal background check and a federal background check prior to the purchase of any modern handgun from an FFL dealer. There is no mental health component, other than the applicant swearing they are not mental. There is no background check for purchasing ammo or accessories like magazines, dot sights, etc.
The assault rifle label is a farce. It has more to do with window dressing and marketing rather than deadliness. The shooter could have done the same damage with any number of number of widely available .22 caliber rifles on the market for decades. Fully automatic weapons like the militaries issue are much harder to acquire legally and remain registered with the ATF and often cost 10s of thousands of dollars to purchase.
More window dressing please. It worked for years after Clinton signed it. Also, how about a one gun per month limit? What legitimate sportsman needs to buy 40 guns per year?
“There is no background check for purchasing ammo or accessories like magazines, dot sights, etc.”
That’s a good place to start. You should have to show your gun permit to get ammo or accessories. I was just wondering the other day – if you have an illegal handgun do you have to get ammo on the black market too? But I guess you just walk into the store and buy it legally. That’s pretty dumb.
“Also, how about a one gun per month limit? ”
Agree. If they can do it for Sudafed they can do it for guns.
But none of these ideas would have stopped the Aurora shooter. The only thing that might have stopped him is better mental health services.
“What legitimate sportsman needs to buy 40 guns per year?”
None. Perhaps a special ” collectors” permit would work here.
Puck, there is no “permit” required to purchase a handgun or long gun. In Delaware, I believe the FFL dealer is required to report the simultaneous purchase of 2 or more guns (not positive about that though). Also, private face to face selling/purchases are not regulated or background checked. Just scan the classified ads.
Jason,
from wiki “In the former U.S. law, the legal term assault weapon included certain specific semi-automatic firearm models by name (e.g., Colt AR-15, TEC-9, non select-fire AK-47s produced by three manufacturers, and Uzis) and other semi-automatic firearms because they possess a minimum set of cosmetic features from the following list of features:” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban
Note the word cosmetic. The ban would have prevented the purchase of a newly manufactured 100 round drum however, not the purchase of one made in say 1993. Never the less, the ban did allow for the purchase of an unlimited amount of 10 round magazines.
“But none of these ideas would have stopped the Aurora shooter. The only thing that might have stopped him is better mental health services.” Agreed.
“But none of these ideas would have stopped the Aurora shooter.”
Making maniacs less lethal isn’t a reasonable goal?
“But none of these ideas would have stopped the Aurora shooter. The only thing that might have stopped him is better mental health services.”
While instances like Aurora are deplorable, it is important to recognize that they are not necessarily solvable. We are a nation of 300 million people. We aren’t able to fix everyone. That doesn’t mean we should evaluate mental health services but each incident, in isolation should not be a stimulus that triggers change since we would be forever changing, trying everything, hoping something will stick.
Still one area that seems to be lacking is recognizing when the dam is about to burst. I am going to guess that when all is said and done that there were signs seen by multiple individuals that if viewed in the collectie would have painted a picture of someone with a serious problem that posed to a danger to himself and to others. The question is, how to recognize those signs (by non-professionals) and what to do about them. Most of us probably do not recognize those signs and even if we did, would dismiss them or wouldn’t know what to do about it even if we did recognize them.
Reminds me of the training I received in the military about how to recognize the signs of drug use. I wonder if such a service for the general public would help in regards to mental health issues. Considering the availability of online learning resources, computer based training might have value for families who noticed something and do not know whether to dismiss it or do something.
“There is no background check for purchasing ammo or accessories like magazines, dot sights, etc…. there is no “permit” required to purchase a handgun or long gun.”
Meatball is practically writing the reform legislation.
Okay, I’m not into guns so I don’t know these things. So what’s the NRA’s beef? They had me bamboozled that guns had to be legally registered.
So how does LE know if a gun is legally owned or not?
I’m flabbergasted that I can be shot by a bullet that is purchased legally for an illegal gun.
“Making maniacs less lethal isn’t a reasonable goal?”
Holmes was actually made less lethal because his 100-round drum jammed. Those high-capacity magazines need to be banned. The rest of his shooting was well within any conceivable firepower limits that might be imposed by a new law.
You can make your own guns, ammo and attachments with proper knowledge. Watch the video about adding a bump slide to a current semi-auto gun to make it damn near close to automatic. The main difference is how the spring is designed, making it ATF approved and legal. For now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U6tORrODJE
“What other background checks can be applied. I don’t know what other states do, but Delaware does a state criminal background check and a federal background check prior to the purchase of any modern handgun from an FFL dealer. ”
That transaction barely qualifies a background check, Meatball. It simply runs a name through a database to see if you meet the minimum requirements. I used to run that transaction frequently when I was in law enforcement It looks for a specific level and type of criminal history. It doesn’t even touch mental history unless it has been entered into the criminal justice system.
The screening process needs to be more rigorous, beyond criminal history.
We don’t need to criminalize mental health issues, although I agree we need to increase access to services. The problem is, who is going to DO anything about ‘crazy’ people. I, for example, know an 8 year old who is mentally unwell. Since I only know her as a student (not a patient) I couldn’t say whether she is bipolar or schizophrenic, but I’d bet one of those. Officially she ‘has issues,’ according to another teacher I consulted who works in another venue with her. They go on about ADD. Um, no. So whatever services her family has gotten, none include a real approach to her real problem. Knowing her family, that doesn’t surprise me. Her mother hears voices, too. She has a religious POV that explains that, so she sees it as a gift, rather than a problem.
So when this girl gets a little bigger and selects a weapon, I’ll be one of those elderly former teachers saying “We were always concerned about her. She could be so charming when she wanted to be.” Before that, suggestions? The issues of mental health aren’t only access. The issues of bullets could be. I like Chris Rock’s take on it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuX-nFmL0II
My experience is the greater the capacity of the magazine the more likely it is to jam. And it is illegal to carry a concealed gun unless you are properly permitted by your state government.
I agree something should be done, I just don’t know what it is. I have to agree with the NRA position that if you ban guns, only the criminals will have them.
Tying mental health records to criminal histories….the public red flagging the public as mentally unstable? Well that’s just plain crazy. I’d have to order red flags in bulk.
Look, it was and is a horrible tragedy, but the perp was one of 300million plus Americans who bought several of the millions of guns sold in America every year. What’s next shoe checks at airports, full body scans, widespread wiretapping?
“We don’t need to criminalize mental health issues,…”
“Tying mental health records to criminal histories….the public red flagging the public as mentally unstable? Well that’s just plain crazy. I’d have to order red flags in bulk.”
I agree, but if your mental health issues causes you to acquire a criminal record, it becomes very relevant. Mental health is also mentioned on the federal questionnaire you sign when purchasing a weapon for a reason. And you can bet your ass that most people (like Holmes) who commit a heinous crime with a firearm, will plead insanity.
Food for thought: Canada shares the criminal history of its citizens with the US Homeland Safety databases, for obvious reasons. Its reciprocal. If a mental health issue is referenced anywhere in that history (even non-violent), access to the US can be denied.
“I have to agree with the NRA position that if you ban guns, only the criminals will have them.”
I totally agree with that. It just shouldn’t so fucking easy. Perhaps something along the lines of acquiring a concealed carry permit. There’s more of a vetting process… references, etc.
I totally agree with that. It just shouldn’t so fucking easy. Perhaps something along the lines of acquiring a concealed carry permit. There’s more of a vetting process… references, etc.
Would you apply the same standard to the other 9 amendments in the Bill of Rights?
One does not need government permission to exercise one’s freedom of speech, religion, etc, as that would potentially render said “freedoms” useless.
I’m not a gun nut, nor am I an NRA member. I AM an American citizen, and I believe we should abide by the Constitution or AMEND IT as needed. The flaws of the 2nd Amendment should have been addressed years ago, but not enough politicians have the balls to take on the NRA.
“I’m not a gun nut…” I don’t buy it. If we wanted to “abide by the Constitution” all gun owners would be compelled to drill with the National Guard.
I agree, but if your mental health issues causes you to acquire a criminal record, it becomes very relevant. Mental health is also mentioned on the federal questionnaire you sign when purchasing a weapon for a reason. And you can bet your ass that most people (like Holmes) who commit a heinous crime with a firearm, will plead insanity.
Irreverant thought: a disclaimer on the form when you buy a gun that says, “By stating that you are of sound mind in purchasing this weapon, you agree that if you start hearing voices [better boiler plate about psychiatrict illness] you will either surrender this weapon or forever foreswear any possible use of an insanity defense in the event you commit a crime that involves the use of this weapon.”
Yeah, I know it would have all the legal power of the disclaimers I sign to go skiing, but it would be fun.
“One does not need government permission to exercise one’s freedom of speech, religion, etc, as that would potentially render said “freedoms” useless.”
It seems you don’t know the difference between a right and a freedom, Roland. Find out, and study the difference, and report back. There will be a test.
Simple solution: End lobbying and that way we get rid of the NRA . . . oh wait we cannot do that because if we banned all lobbying our legislative process would grind to a halt because the assholes we have in office wouldn’t have anybody telling them what to do!!!! Nm