Delaware Political Weekly: Oct. 13-19, 2012
1. Bodie Out. Pettyjohn In.
The political world in western Sussex returns to normal. While there will likely be some confusion on the R side, Eric Bodenweiser‘s full withdrawal from the 19th Senate District race virtually guarantees that Brian Pettyjohn will keep this crimson red senate seat in the R column come November. Bodenweiser’s name will not appear on the ballot. While voters indeed will have to write in Pettyjohn’s name, the DOE will make it as easy as possible for people to do so, and I don’t think it will be close. Don’t blame Jane Hovington. She stepped up and took one for the team, whatever that team might be in western Sussex. Which begs this thought: You’ve got a moribund Democratic Party in western Sussex. You’ve got a growing Latino and minority population base that has next to no voice in the official party structure there. A party structure that is almost gone. I see a great opportunity to build a new and more inclusive Democratic Party in western Sussex. With grassroots leadership from these growing populations. It’s not as if there’s gonna be a revival of the good ol’ boys Democrats there. There’s a political vacuum. Fill it, amigos.
2. Who’s More Unfit for Public Office: Carper or Pires?
It’s one thing to run a vanity campaign. It’s quite another thing to run a vanity campaign seemingly based on the premise that you want everyone to know that you’re an asshole. The irony, of course, is that Alex Pires challenged a Democrat who is virtually not a Democrat at all. Senator Bipartisanship Unilateral Surrender, Tom Carper. Pires had the money and clearly the ambition to mount a serious challenge that could well have attracted a lot of progressive votes. Instead, he plastered the News-Journal with his grinning gargoyle mug, littered the roadsides with more signs than Burma Shave ever envisioned, and claimed that Carper was a wifebeater and in failing health. And now, apparently, a day trader. Those claims, serious indeed if true, with absolutely no proof. Anyone who reads this blog knows I will not support Carper ever again. He’s a wholly-owned subsidiary of the banks, and his quests for bipartisanship have led him to, among other things, enable Alito and Roberts to become Supreme Court justices. Carper apparently missed Mitch McConnell’s pledge to screw Obama at every turn so that Obama would get the blame if/when the economy doesn’t recover. (More on that later). However, Pires’ incendiary charges have made clear, at least to me, that he is singularly unfit to hold public office. Unable or unwilling to demonstrate that he is a viable alternative, he has simply thrown shit at the wall. Some of it recycled shit. It’s even possible that some of it is true, but he has brought nothing new, just wild-eyed assertions. Plus, as a progressive who won’t vote for Carper, I’m not bothered in the least should Pires’ assertions that Carper may not finish out his term prove to be true. I’d rather have Markell or Denn naming a replacement than to have Pires ensconced in D. C. for six years. Didn’t have to be that way, Alex, it was just the path that you chose. You should have kept your real self hidden. You’re no more fit to hold office than Christine O’Donnell.
3. R’s Worried About Their Slate.
Well, wouldn’t you be worried if you were them? The R’s have a statewide slate that has raised no money, generated next to no enthusiasm, generated next to no volunteers, and, with the possible long-shot unlikely exception of Ben Mobley, has no shot at winning. And, unless I’ve missed it, there is next to no ground game being put in place by the R’s. This in no way means that the D’s are gonna sweep all the contested legislative races. Keep in mind that the D’s had huge edges in both houses going into 2012. There ain’t that much more fertile territory to plow. And also keep in mind that R’s largely dominate central and western Sussex County. But it does mean that they’ll have much tougher races in the 4th and 5th Senatorial Districts (Katz/Lavelle and Cloutier/Counihan) than they might have hoped six months ago. And there could well be a surprise or two in Kent and Sussex. Plus, it makes it that much more difficult for the rare R recruiting successes this year to pull out victories. This assertion is not a figment of my imagination. I somehow was invited to talk about the 2012 elections on a panel at the Riverfront Center last week, and there were several prominent R’s there. They were the ones talking about this and lamenting the current state of affairs. These are, to put it mildly, not Tea Party types, and they and their supporters have spent this election sitting on their wallets.
4. Best/Worst Radio Ads I’ve Heard.
“Ladies and gentlemen, direct from the AMTRAK Northeast Corridor, wearing the well-worn knee-pads, please welcome Tom Carper and John Carney–The Supplicants!” Gawd, those treacly tributes to bipartisanship are sickening. At least they probably saved some money by having the same idiot write and produce both ads. You know, there’s too much partisanship in Washington, but they’ve crossed the aisle so many times that they are, well, Republicans-lite. No, they ‘get things done’. You know, like Alito and Roberts on the Supreme Court, Tom. One reason why they’ll never be an effective tag team–you don’t even need to pin them. They unilaterally surrender. Makes for bad rasslin’ and bad radio ads.
Man, the Rethug brand must really be toxic in Brandywine Hundred. Otherwise, why would the Vice-Chair of the Republican State Committee claim that he is an ‘independent voice’? He is the most partisan R legislator in Dover, he’s never met a microphone that he doesn’t use to make a partisan point, he’s certainly not independent of the pedophile-protecting/anti-choice wing of the Catholic Church. I don’t think you can find a single issue where he has declared his independence from Republican boilerplate or Papal infallibility. Yet, his radio ads make sure that the word ‘Republican’ is never mentioned. Greg Lavelle an independent? News to me. And to the Rethugs who prefer him and John Sigler locked and loaded together at all times.
The best radio ad, by far, that I’ve heard this cycle, is Tom Gordon‘s. I’m sure that fact-checkers might have a field day with it, but the ad features upbeat, even peppy, music, and an announcer seemingly struggling to cram all of Gordon’s (alleged) accomplishments into the limited space of the ad. If this ad is designed to make wayward D’s feel better about voting for Gordon, I think that it has succeeded.
That’s it for this week. What’d I miss, and whaddayathink?
Tags: Alex Pires, Ben Mobley, Brian Pettyjohn, El Somnambulo, Eric Bodenweiser, Greg Lavelle, Jane Hovington, John Carney, Steve Tanzer Delaware, Tom Carper, Tom Gordon
The Dems that are in western Sussex feel isolated and forgotten by the statewide party. It is like they have surrendered the turf to the enemy and let their allies to be captured. No offices, little to no campaigning, no real candidates in some of the districts. Its bad enough we live in crazyville…at least Berlin had the airlift.
Pettyjohn is iffy. Some folks will vote for Bodenweiser. Also it is not yet clear that Pettyjohn’s name will appear on the ballot since the DOE requires a supplemental certificate of nomination to do that. While Hovington may not be a the ideal candidate for the 19th who knows what will really happen come Nov 6.
Although the lesson learned, is even when the candidate is selected to take one for the team, you need to be sure that they have chance if something happens to their opponent midstream.
mm: The building blocks of the state party are the Representative District committees. It’s not from the top down. If the current leadership is moribund or non-existent, an enthusiastic grassroots can take over those committees and begin to build a new, more inclusive, Democratic Party in western Sussex.
If western Sussex Democratic district committees are like western Kent’s, they are small time family businesses that have little if anything to do with “Democratic” politics, and even less interest in a bigger tent.
Maybe the Dixiecrat implosion is a little farther along there? If so, I agree that there is a vacuum just waiting to be filled.
I am starting to wonder how much it would cost to print up 500 signs that say “Write in John Petty” and put them up all over SD19. And a few t-shirted volunteers with the same thing on election day.
Dave: the only name on the ballot will be Hovington. Bodie’s name will be covered with stickers.
Mm: the western Sussex party has only itself to blame. For decades, they sat by and let Biff Lee and Tina Fallon and Ben Ewing coast to reelection with at most token opposition from a delusional naive nutter. They were content to have Thurman and Venables carry the torch and hold the power. Now Thurm’s dead and Venables is close to getting his ass kicked. Yes, it’s conservative country, but there are still a few Dems around. They just don’t see the point in even trying. There are virtually no young Democrats involved in the party now. Once the current leaders croak, Route 13 west should be permanently colored red. There is no way in hell you can blame the state party for this state of affairs. How many years did Biff, the smiley lightweight of the House, go without an opponent?
There are some good people involved in the Democratic party in Sussex. But unfortunately the lingering thought that they are the victims and no one cares about them, really hinders their ability to ever progress past a very enthusiastic small minority.
Most Statewides have an uncanny obsession with going to Sussex and winning it. There has been a lot of progress in the organization of the dems down there, especially with their formation of their own hq in georgetown etc. But to be truly effective there needs to be organization at all levels not just the core leaders that already exist.
I think it’s getting there.
“You’ve got a growing Latino and minority population base that has next to no voice in the official party structure there”
Out of 15 members of the Executive Committee in Sussex, 10 are “minorities” as defined by the Democratic Party (women, African American and Lesbian/Gay).
Will be glad to step aside and let you guys try to do better .Must be nice sitting on the sidelines and observing. Can i get you another donut?
I am starting to wonder how much it would cost to print up 500 signs that say “Write in John Petty”
Or signs that say “Write in Eric Bodenweiser.” But I guess John Petty is easier to spell.
Capes, I’m hardly on the sidelines. Just giving a constructive observation of whats going on down there. Most people involved honestly want to change things. But they want to do it their way, and their own metrics. Which don’t always reflect the best ways to really increase the electoral advantage. Like I said there has been a shift towards it, and it is getting better. But the way to gain power in any situation is provide results. And to be honest there really hasn’t been a case where the preferred sussex methods can be proven as more effective than that of the party. Take it or leave it. But hardly a, oh you guys don’t know what you’re doing step aside.
Of course, Capes, I’m not asking anyone to step aside. It’s a matter of rebuilding a moribund party base. Unless you’re happy with the election results, I don’t see how the Party has any choice but to rebuild.
Hey, I’ve served on district committees and even helped overthrow the Gene Reed power structure in NCC decades ago. So I’ve been there and I’ve got a pretty good feel for how insurgent grassroots politics can work.
I’m just saying that there’s essentially a vacuum, and potential grassroots interest in filling it. It’s not up to me to come down there and try to do it. That has to be done at the local level. If there’s interest. Just pointing out the opportunity.
The party having a HQ is no great thing. It had one within the las five years and lost it under Chapman’s alleged leadership.
Capes, I’m not a Democrat, so I can’t join your work. I’m not sniping from the sidelines, just pointing out what everyone else except Ed O’Connor apparently sees. You are in shit shape and have been for years. Having the same people in charge now who couldn’t field candidates over the last 20 years is not going to change a thing. It’s going to make it worse. Ed and the Gang need to fire them and recruit some new blood quick. The GOP is fractured, but keeps winning. You are united and keep losing. Something has to change big.
SW, eh I’d hardly say united.
Well, there certainly aren’t the big schisms we’ve seen among the Rs.
Public or Private, squabbles are squabbles.
“I’m not sniping from the sidelines, just pointing out….” LOL
But ya are, Blanche, ya are!
Please learn something about what is going on in the current party.
There are only 3 “lifers” left in the party structure as it stands today. And all of them have candidates running in their districts.
El Som gets a pass on some of her lack of knowledge, but SW, you should know better.
Yeah, HQs are highly overrated. A meeting space large enough and flexible enough to host meetings, events and phone banks really shouldn’t be on the things to do list when party building in the frontier known as Sussex. As if.
The offer still stands to be a SussexDoer, SW. But seeing as you are not even a democrat, your insights are about as useful as tits on a bull.
BTW, El Som, the grassroots insurgency happened when the 14th district was formed and Pete Schwartzkopf won. There is your example of power vacuum and activism. This effort continues to this day and is growing in the east. Western Sussex just doesn’t have that dynamic. Not yet anyway.
I know that there has been some effort to try to help Jane Hovington — people putting together lit, fundraising, other help from the Ds. It was pointed out to me that the local committee and others who could help with this are probably tied up with Staton’s race. My impression is that the local Ds are doing the best they can with their resources and that the party D’s are trying to help with that. But it is tough to ramp up enough capacity in a short period of time.
El Som, the truth is that the vast majority of the Hispanics in Sussex, are either temporary workers, or are not US citizens. In other words, they can’t vote.
Stop lying about my words. I never said HQs are overrated. I said creating one should not be viewed as a major accomplishment when the party HAD one and lost it relatively recently. It’s not an accomplishment to get something you should have had from the start.
I don’t know who youre counting as lifers, but anyone whi’s been in leadership for a RD that has routinely failed to run a candidate should be barred from leadership. I’m looking right at Chris Calio, who district is a pathetic failure. He has a lot of names on his roster, but they’re as effective as a drunken rooster pissing on a barn fire.
The ranks of committee members right now are fucking dismal. There is one person in the 35th. Two in the 37th, Hovington’s territory. No one in the 39th. And one in the 41st.
The broader point, which you apparently don’t want to listen to, is that it’s going to take decades of hard work to rebuild the parties at this point because of the begnin neglect they have suffered. From my vantage point as an outsider, Ed and his gang have done nothing to reverse that. There are still seats without Democratic candidates! I don’t give a flying frig what the party looks like from the inside. What matters is the impact it’s having on Election Day. And the west-central Sussex party is a eunuch.
It’s not my job to build up your party. It’s yours. I want you to succeed not because I have a burning love for th Democratic Party structure, but because I want a real choice, not a lot of empty ballot lines.
At this late date, any efforts probably will have negligible impact on Hovington’s chances. However, if by chance she wins, some support would have to be provided to ensure that what was started has legs. Her constitutency is not progressive and if she doesn’t govern from the center, her legs will get cut off the next election. Heck even the center may be way too far left. Still, the party machine will have to be prepared to help over the long run if she is successful.
I have only posted a few times on this website, because I am a manufactured homeowner and there are problems with the Delaware Liberal faction of the Democratic Party regarding homeowners’ rights. I decided to this time because I am a registered Democrat and I am a white woman in th 65+ category, and I definitely feel disenfranchised by this party in Sussex County. I believe in gun rights, I believe in the right to practice my religion and in respecting other religions rights too, I believe in supporting and defending the Constitution as it was written, not as the current liberal aspect of this party choses to interpret it, I believe in helping law-abiding citizens who have participated in our governmental programs by paying into the system that they then have to ask for help from, I believe that benefits I earned and were guaranteed to me by my government should not be changed because politicians don’t honor our government’s word, I believe that I have medical choices and rights that no new program should take away by charging me if I chose not to participate in a program that takes 2000+ pages to explain, I believe that I should not be forced to provide birth control for women who chose not to take responsibility for their sexual behavior, and that Marriage is between a man & a woman and the term marriage is from the bible and the definition should not be changed by the government, while at the same time, same sex couples should be allowed legal unions that have the same rights as hetrosexual couples do, under the law.
These are the things I believe in and the Democratic Party in Sussex County, and in Delaware and in this Country, has ignored and deny my beliefs. They have indeed disenfranchised me and thousands of others like me.
Perhaps you feel disenfranchised by the Democratic Party because you’re a Republican. 😉
No, I am and have been since I was old enough to vote, A Democrat, but the party has changed and I do not care for the direction it is taking. Happy, smiley face to you, too.
She’s obviously a Dixie-crat.
LOL, that is funny, I applaud your sense of humour.
Thank you. Now go register as a Republican 🙂
This is what Delaware does to homeowners on leased land. Is this Justice in your opinions? Where would the Democratic Party and
bloggers on this site stand on this issue? Just asking………
I just heard that Liz Romano, who was guilty of forming a home owners association in her Mason-Dixon Community, lost her case against a Summary Judgement and stands to lose her home.
How Do You Legally Steal a House in Delaware
The Players:
Liz Romano is the individual.
Mason Dixon is the Community
Sussex is the County.
First, you sell a home in a community that purports to be a Seasonal Community.
Second, you let people live in the community for six years the year round with permission.
Third, you keep utilities on the year round even if they are” unavailable.”.
Because of problems in the community, the individual seeks to form a home owners association (HOA), the management introduces a new lease. When the individual refuses to sign the new lease, the community owner seeks a Summary Judgement to oust the home and home owner from a JP Court 17 which provides no record of the legal proceedings.
The individual seeks to defend herself in court.
At least through the second quarter of 2011, the community owner collected the Relocation Trust Authority fee of $1.50 per month and paid the landlord’s $1.50 per month since the law became effective in 2004 for non- seasonal leased land communities.
The Court denies the right of a jury trial and grants the community owner a Summary Judgement without any sort of hearing. Her attorney can’t talk about the case but presumably will seeks some type of an appeal.
The home is 20 year old, and surrounded with trees and shrubbery and is impractical to move if it can be moved.
The community gets to keep the home. The individual gets nothing.
That is how to steal a home in Delaware if you live on leased land.
Dixie, I feel your pain and I get that you’re looking for someone – the government – to help you. My problem with your positions is that you begrudge others that same help.
I’m not very familiar with what’s going on with the leased land, and I’ll look into it, but buying a house on leased land is pretty much always a mistake.
Maybe I will just keep trying to change the Democratic Party from within………..What is your response to the last comment, in general?
Pandora, I am not looking to the government, just want Justice and fairplay. She is being targeted because she challenged the landowner who was violating the law. I do not begrudge contributers just “takers” who have never contributed.
Takers?
Good luck, Dixie. I’m done with you. And you’re in denial. You are 100% Republican.
Pandora, What you wrote is not true. Manufactured homes on rented land have been a viable living arrangement since the end of WWII when they were first contructed for returning vets who could not afford land and houses, both. It has worked for decades, enabling people to own their own homes and providing a great investment business that gives the community owner a 70% profit margin. That is a viable business opportunity that in Sussex County alone, there are approximately 33,000 families that are living in this arrangement. Not all communities are having problems, but because there are not enough legal protections in place, unscrupulous and greedy landowners are using their communities as a cash cow during this economic crisis. Protection should be provided for these homeowners unless you could think of another way to house people who have worked all their lives to have their own homes? And no, these homes cannot be moved, other communities will not take homes older than 5 years into their parks, even if they were able to be moved.
Pandora, I am not a Republican, I am a registered Democrat and I have supported and worked for very well-known democrats in Sussex County at the polls. You and others like you will not tolerate people whose ideas differ from yours. Shame on you. You are in denial about maybe you could be wrong. I will keep talking and you will keep closing your eyes and that is a shame.
@Dixie Boucher–
Please define these “takers” you speak of.
Would you consider a physically or mentally handicapped person a “taker”? Some of these people are disabled (from birth) to such a degree that they cannot ever make a financial contribution to society, yet they receive government benefits. Do begrudge them the meager government support they receive?
Better yet, let’s cut right to the chase–
Do you consider a single black woman from Wilmington w/ children who is on welfare or SSI, lives in Section 8 housing & gets food stamps to be a “taker”? Do you begrudge her, and her children, the government benefits they receive?
I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that you’d answer NO to the first question and a resounding yes to the second question. You probably also know all kinds of obscure racial epithets, too. I can guarantee you know what the terms “moon cricket” and “shine” mean without googling them.
In short, you are an angry old working class white lady. You remind me of a lot of old “Democrats”, some of whom are/were the parents of childhood friends.
Have a nice day & good luck with your trailer.
I hate to burst you bubble BUT there are more Latinos in the SUSSEX GOP represented in core positions within the party structure
Than there are in the Sussex Dems….. There is nary a ONE to be found and absolutely NO outreach. Unless it is election time
Dont ask me why….. Ask the Dems.
Maybe if they came around to recruit before election season they would have some. But there is nothing like coming around at election season with the old hand out
Question! If the Dems control the Senate why did Booths rather odious bill on e-verify pass the Senate. With Blevins among other Dems voting for it
Dont think for a minute that voting Latinos are still pretty annoyed about it. And Miro co-sponsored Marshalls IN STATE TUITION BILL
That did not go unnoticed. With the Latino population at over 8% of the population the DelDems need to wake up and smell the coffee and start recruiting
As far as Dixies fairy tale….. No record of the case.
BULL SH** Dixie.
Every civil or landlord tenant case is online at Delaware court connect
Plus one does not get a summary judgement fir possession without a hearing. Go peddle that crap somewhere else
Face it. The party did not leave you. You left the party
Take Pandoras advice. Go register as a republican. I have been you whining drivel for years now. And u send nothing but letter with no facts and little substance
Posting on Delaware Politics is easy. Post there. You do often enough.
“El Som, the truth is that the vast majority of the Hispanics in Sussex, are either temporary workers, or are not US citizens. In other words, they can’t vote.”
Since when has that ever stopped the Democrats pandering for the Hispanic vote?
The case just happened today and I repeated what I heard. This person is real and while I don’t have all pertinent facts at hand it doesn’t change the truth, so go and research it if you want intead of spouting off at mouth like you always do. What makes you right about what you say? I will post wherever and whenever I wish and you keep on with your bully tatics. You won’t stop me and you and Pandora are why the Democrats may blow it. But I will keep trying to present different points of view, because I know the party is full of people like you, who only want to hear their own words. You are both narrow-minded, intellectual bullies and you lack credibility in my eyes. My drivel is about real people and real problems, and it is about human beings, something you may not understand. And because you are so full of hate, you always jump in, call everything a lie and try to run people like me away. guess what, it won’t work. Have a wonderful evening and I will be back, posting under my name, like I always do.
One more comment for “Roland”, I do not know what either of those words mean, in fact I never heard them until YOU posted them. But then I don’t hang with people like you. The woman who is on welfare and living in section 8 housing needs help and along with the help, she needs to be encouraged to learn how to support herself, so the endless cycle of “welfarism” is not passed to her children. We need to make changes in the welfare program to help people get off of it. The takers I refer to are the “illegal” ones who are not legal citizens of this country, who come here to benefit from our kindnesses and best intentions. I don’t want to pay for them, anymore. Last but not least, I have met more good, decent people living in “trailers” then ever graced the pages of this blog. p.s. now go wash your mouth out with soap.
Dixie- frankly my dear. I dont give a damn
Its not like u r relevant or anything which is why i have never addressed u before
U even admit ur story “just happened today” well dear. A case is filed first. Then noticed for trial. In JP court the date is given immediately upon filing the case- u see a DOCKET is created then the case is heard, usually during a call of the calendar ( look it up) that gives about 3 weeks for the case to be viewed on court connect. And mist of these are filed electronically so in 24 hours the case is viweable
So. Knowing those facts. Then hearing your story. Well. Something stinks …. And its your fairy tale
What makes me right is i have the facts. What makes me right is i tell the truth not some made up twisted third hand story i want to rumour all over the place
And im an “intellectual bully” in your book because i have an intellect that i actually use. – why dont u try it sometime?
I live in the new 19th and 37th which includes the lion share of the leased land homes on Longkneck Road. There are many tales that come out but, few that stand up to scrutiny on the details.
It became a hot button issue on the campaign trail based on public emotion, not facts. It inflamed emotions on both sides of the aisle that frankly were all missplaced.
Owning anything on leased land is a bad idea. That is a fact. Yet it is a choice that people continue to make. Wanting things addressed that were not covered by the OG lease or not wanting to sign a new lease when the existing lease expires is insanity.
If you lease a car, would you even dream of trying to re-negotiate mid lease or refuse to renew the lease and expect to keep the car? This whole leased land thing does not belong in the public political domain, it belongs in a court.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, I thought that the DEMs running for Sussex State-level seats are all on platforms fighting for leased community home-owner rights, aren’t they, Dixie? Isn’t that one of the vulnerable points for GOP Ruth Briggs King?
Comment by Nancy Willing on 20 October 2012 at 10:28 am:
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, I thought that the DEMs running for Sussex State-level seats are all on platforms fighting for leased community home-owner rights, aren’t they, Dixie? Isn’t that one of the vulnerable points for GOP Ruth Briggs King?
Obviously not
The ones I have looked at are.
Dixie is talking about the lack of support from DEMs in the General Assembly last year for the bill that would have cured their problems.
Her complaint is not necessarily against any Sussex DEMs. Who did and didn’t support the bill is easily researched for anyone who’s got the time.
Well. Dixie likes to shoot from the hip- so to speak
Devoid of facts. Or a clear target
Shes too lazy to actually do the research. Its easier to point fingers and spread lies
I may be a little late to the conversation, but there were a couple points that Dixie made to which I compulsively need to respond. Since all of those statements were worded as statements of belief rather than support, I expect this to fall on deaf ears.
TL;DR – Health care based on blame sucks; marriage lacks the roots Dixie claims it has.
“I believe that I should not be forced to provide birth control for women who chose not to take responsibility for their sexual behavior”
So many levels to this one. First – using birth control IS taking responsibility for your “sexual behavior”. What you mean to say is “I would rather pay the associated costs to society caused by unplanned children than give up sex-as-taboo”. Second – could you imagine a country in which medical attention was governed by blame? “Sorry, we don’t provide insulin to diabetics who chose not to take responsibility for their diet”. “Sorry, we don’t provide care to people who cause car accidents”. As someone who is (probably) a Christian, how does any of that square with John 8:7?
“Marriage is between a man & a woman and the term marriage is from the bible and the definition should not be changed by the government”
Actually, Exodus talks about “beena” as a union between a man and one or more women and talks extensively about the additional rules for a polygynous relationship. The term “marriage” is from the ancient Roman “matrimonium”, not the Bible. Originally, this meant one woman being subjugated by one man, and the implicit purpose was for Roman citizens to produce new citizens. The definition, rights, and status of genders within a marriage were redefined by various Caesars several times.
Since you’re keen on this Bible stuff, you don’t see marriage defined as one woman one man until Paul, a man who never met Jesus, writing decades after Jesus died, hundreds of miles away. The kicker? He was a Roman citizen. Guess where he got his ideas about matrimonium. Christian governments in the Middle Ages redefined marriage so that it did not need mutual consent. Roman Catholics redefined marriage in 1566 to mean “The conjugal union of man and woman, contracted between two qualified persons, which obliges them to live together throughout life.” In fact, the idea of “marriage” as a strictly religious term is nearly 200 years out of date, since England started recognizing “civil marriage” in contrast to “church marriage”. So to say that marriage comes from the Bible and means one man and one woman is just false. To stand on that invented tradition against a government redefining civil marriage (any further) is just silly.
@ paines me. Im in love…… 🙂
Aoine – Fight the good fight, right? 🙂
Painesme, Taking responsibility for your own sexual behaviour is a matter of choice, and if you don’t want to get pregnant, buy your own contraceptives and comparing it to diets and diabetes, which is a medical condition is not comparable. Apples to oranges, does not fly.
I am no student of the bible or the liberal history of a specific term, “Marriage”. I was raised on “tradition” in my church, which uses the term Marriage as defined between 1 man and 1 woman. The Mormans, have different traditions, and allow polygamy(not sure of spelling)and the new religion of Liberalism allows same sex marriages. Whatever floats your boats, but my “tradition” believes that marriage is founded in the church. The intellectual bigorty I find on this web site is because your so-called vast knowledge of everything never allows for people to believe differently than you. How do you believe that quoting your history of a word is going to change my “beliefs”. Can’t wait for your discourse on how a government formed in “God We Trust”, as noted in numerous historical documents as well as our currency, can be acceptable to people of no faith, or faiths that do not recognize, “God”.
People like so many of you, just want to tear away at tradition and change this country until it is unrecognizable. I don’t need your research or definitions to tell me what marriage is supposed to mean and in the words of the home-bred locals who are so fond of telling, “transplants” to go back where we came from if we don’t like it the way it is here, I say the same thing to you,
if you don’t like this country, as it was founded, go some place else and stop trying to change my world to fit your definitions.
Nancy, There were democratic supporters of the bill, but too many did not and with the democratic majority in the house, it was not acceptable. Everyone on this site seems to be so quick to defend the poor and the illegal and give them what they “need”. Yet the middle class who have paid the way for all these social programs for so long, and need simply fairness from the legislators by supporting our rights as homeowners, let us down. Nobody tells the poor to starve, nobody tells the illegals to go back to their own country, but they are quick to say, to 53,000 manufactured homeowners in Delaware, too bad, the landowners are more important to us than you are, just lose your homes, we won’t help you. That was not the Democratic Party I grew up with.
Dorothy/Dixie –
Since you can’t wait for my discourse on a country “founded” on ‘In God We Trust’, I’ll lead off with that:
“‘In God we trust’ was adopted as the official motto of the United States in 1956 as an alternative or replacement to the unofficial motto of E pluribus unum, adopted when the Great Seal of the United States was created and adopted in 1782.” – First sentence from wikipedia article on the motto.
So, speaking of “changing my world to fit your definitions”, stop trying to remake America into a “Christian” nation.
Pregnancy is a medical condition, so to speak. Type II diabetes is similarly something that affects your health that is not entirely rooted in genetics. Regardless, I’d rather my government pay to give someone $15 in condoms rather than tens of thousands of dollars in extra expenses that unplanned pregnancies incur on society (some estimates place the collective cost at ~$5,000,000,000). Your moral tradition is costing both of us way more money than mine.
I began my last “discourse” by admitting that my arguments would fall on deaf ears. And to be honest, I agree with you that as long as you keep your traditions to yourself, whatever “floats your boat”. But then you go on to say how your tradition is best, and you will continue to support it no matter what. We discuss issues with facts, and in the face of new evidence, we re-evaluate. You call that “Intellectual Bigotry”, we call it “Debate”. Don’t play the victim, play the game. Maybe I’m wrong. Or maybe, like so many people have said, we should be “christ-like” and not just christian.
Pray tell me, what obligated you to post both names, since I go by my nickname and it is what everyone calls me? I bet you even know the meaning of my real name, its roots I mean? Anyway, point 1, deny as much as you want, America is founded on christian beliefs, it says so in many important historical documents relating to this nation’s founding. Please spare me the history lesson I know you are itching to give me. Point 2, I’d rather the woman would chose to abstain from having intercourse with every Tom, Dick and Harry she meets and save me the $15.00 in condoms or birth control.Point 3, Pregnency occurs because people don’t bother to pay their own way to prevent it(no, I am not talking about rape!).Point 4, If people in this country had not let go of “moral” traditions like they have, your outstanding costs estimates would be a whole lot less.Point 5, I did not say my traditions were best until just now in point 4 and then only because when this country was more morally directed, there were less unwanted pregnancies. Morals are needed to help people be more christ-like. I agree that many people who call themselves Christian do it in name only. Point 6, the “intellectual bigotry” I was referring to is not acceptable in a honest debate. Point, counterpoint, and every now and then, agreement as I just did with you in my last point. It was actually more directed to Aoine and Roland and their comments earlier, I especially loved the “good luck with your trailer” comment. That is indeed intellectual bigotry. As far as I am concerned I have debated, I am playing the game but when others try to embarass me because they are not winning the debate, I call it like I see it. And it has been interesting to say the least.
“America is founded on christian beliefs, it says so in many important historical documents relating to this nation’s founding.”
No, it doesn’t. The important historical founding documents are the Constitution and the Declaration. The latter is a charge against the King of England and the Parliament; the former lays down rules for running the new Republic. Neither says a word about being beholden to God or Christianity for anything.
“I’d rather the woman would chose to abstain from having intercourse with every Tom, Dick and Harry she meets and save me the $15.00 in condoms or birth control.”
And what of the women who are having intercourse only with their husbands but still don’t want more children? The very fact that you assume anyone who needs or wants contraception must be unmarried illustrates your inability to even view the basic facts without bias. Forty percent of abortions, for example, are performed on married women.
“when this country was more morally directed, there were less unwanted pregnancies.”
No there weren’t. Many more unwanted pregnancies grew up into people like you, but it doesn’t mean they were wanted.
Beyond that, it’s none of your business what these people do with their lives or what low-cost health care they use to make them better. If you begrudge people the nickles, dimes and pennies you claim you do, you’re just another Christian without compassion, the usual sort you find in fundie churches with unschooled pastors and ignorant congregants.
1. I know you asked me to spare you the history lesson, but come on! You can’t make bold claims like that and vaguely reference “historical documents”. Are you talking about the Declaration of Independence? The Constitution? “Common Sense” or “The Rights of Man”? Because from where I stand, just about every major figure in early American history wouldn’t recognize this Christian nation you mention.
“I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology.” – Thomas Jefferson
“This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.” – John Adams
“I looked around for God’s judgments, but saw no signs of them.” – Ben Franklin
“Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.” – James Madison
“I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any Church that I know of. My own mind is my own Church. Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all.” – Thomas Paine
“The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my profession.” – Abe Lincoln
Even George Washington refused Last Rites on his death bed. Where are these great religious warriors who forged our nation? I’m genuinely asking you. Where do you get this notion that we were founded on the Bible? Or is this just more of the church tradition you were raised in.
2. Wow. Just wow. Because a woman has sex, that means she sleeps with “every Tom, Dick, and Harry she meets”? I sincerely hope I’m mistaken, but it certainly sounds like you are making the case that if a woman buys condoms, she’s a slut (apologies for the language). What were you saying about bigotry again?
3. Obesity occurs because people don’t bother to pay for high-quality food and exercise, and yet you’re fine subsidizing their medical costs to the tune of $147,000,000,000. But this isn’t about cost. It’s about imposing your worldview on other people. Your worldview is fine with obesity-related health-issues, but not sexuality.
4. If point #2 is any indication of what people’s morality should sound like, I’m happy to hear that this country has found a new moral direction.
5. You didn’t say your beliefs were best before, you heavily implied it. Now you said it. Generally, questions of morality are phrased in how actions affect others. Stealing, murder, lying, etc. What two consenting adults do at home? As long as they stay healthy and safe, what should I care? To that end, defunding birth control is far more immoral.
6. Not much to say here.
We have been the recipients of the choicest bounties of Heaven. We have been preserved, these many years, in peace and prosperity. We have grown in numbers, wealth and power, as no other nation has ever grown. But we have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which preserved us in peace, and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us; and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own. Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us!
These are not my words. In fact, these words were first proclaimed over 140 years ago by President Abraham Lincoln.1 If he were alive today, Abraham Lincoln would be shocked about how worse the situation has become in the United States of America.
Found the above, they are not words from me. The following are my words. I do not debate, I read, study, and make my own mind up with what I believe in and why. The world is in a mess and will only continue to get worse. I choose to look towards the eternal to come. I try to look for the proof of what is actually said by whom. There are always others who will say what they want to about anyone and people have always said things they wish they had otherwise left unsaid. The tongue is man’s worse enemy. Been there, done that, trying hard to not make the same mistakes. The person you can change is only yourself.
God’s Child –
Irrelevant. Lincoln was a first rate deist. I don’t think you can throw him in a debate about being a Christian nation when he says:
“My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures have become clearer and stronger with advancing years, and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them.”
Guess it all depends on where you get your reading material and if you read it in its entirety or just where you want to stop. Also if you get it from just one source or search to make sure you get it from the true source. I have found that many people pick up on just one thing a person says and twists it to fit what they want it to mean.
The world has always been in a mess. Because people are a mess.. because God made us perfectly imperfect.
Unfortunately, he also gave people the ability to have enormous egos and with their own “free will”, think they can prove what they say, by twisting what others say. Most of the last posts are full of inacuracies, some out-right lies, many many assumptions about what I meant aand not relevant to what I really said. This is why you are wrong, cause the twists are obvious and show how your minds work by deceit and delusions. I said what I meant, no more no less and I refute your liberal assumptions about what I meant. Too bad you can’t be more honest when you try to debate. I posted first because the blog was discussing the “disenfranchised” in the Democratic party and I explained why, I, a registered democrat, felt disenfranchised also. I explained my disagreement with many of the policies the party is supporting. I am entitled to that and you haven’t proven anything but your own inability to listen to what others are saying because it doesn’t match your ideas. Honestly some of you sound like spoiled children who had their toys taken away. Tsk, tsk children, try to play nice. And have a good night.
Well, as long as we are invoking post-Founding Father presidents…
Dixie/Dorothy & God’s child–
I’ve noticed you both bring a lot of opinion & “beliefs” to this blog, but you bring NO facts.
Dixie/Dorothy goes to great lengths to let us know we are factually wrong, yet she cannot support her position with any facts. To wit:
Most of the last posts are full of inacuracies, some out-right lies, many many assumptions about what I meant aand not relevant to what I really said. This is why you are wrong, cause the twists are obvious and show how your minds work by deceit and delusions. I said what I meant, no more no less and I refute your liberal assumptions about what I meant. Too bad you can’t be more honest when you try to debate.
Honesty in debating is a two-way street. PainesMe and Aoine have presented you with facts that are contrary to your opinion. You’ve accused them of presenting lies and inaccuracies (note spelling).
Please cite these lies and inaccuracies. Call them out and refute them with FACTS, not mere assertions, beliefs and opinions! That’s how a real debate works. You have 90% of the sum total of human knowledge to date at your fingertips. Put it to use!
God’s child–
Also if you get it from just one source or search to make sure you get it from the true source. I have found that many people pick up on just one thing a person says and twists it to fit what they want it to mean.
I’ve noticed that many alleged Christians do this with Bible verses. They will pull a verse from Leviticus that supports their opposition to gay marriage or whatever, while simultaneously forgetting all about the primary message of Christ, who allegedly came to save SINNERS. The Jeebus hung out w/ hookers and criminals and fed the poor and healed the sick, regardless of nationality. Dixie/Dorothy calls herself a Christian while she’s bitching about the Mexicans who receive food stamps for their American children.
Praise the Lord, hypocrites!
Last but not least, I have met more good, decent people living in “trailers” then ever graced the pages of this blog. p.s. now go wash your mouth out with soap.
I’ve met a good number of decent folks who live in mobile homes, too. You missed the point. Again.
P.S.–You’ve given yourself away by telling me to wash my mouth out w/ soap. You knew what those terms meant long before I posted them.
Google had a DL story about SB205 – Jun 19, 2012 – Defeated by House of Representatives. Votes: Defeated 14 YES 22 NO 5 NOT VOTING 0 ABSENT 0 VACANT
Wonder how Scwartzkopf voted? This bill was heavily lobbied against by Jerry Heisler – a NCC developer who moonlights as a lobbyist for manufactured home community land lords.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
General Assembly Post-Game Wrap-Up/Pre-Game Show:
http://delawareliberal.net//2012/06/14/general-assembly-post-game-wrap-uppre-game-show-thurs-june-14-2012/
And that’s not the only big showdown in Dover today. Guess what tops the House Agenda? SB 205(Ennis), which has been discussed, praised and vilified here. To me, the math is simple. If Democrats adhere to the core principles of what made the Party great, the bill will pass. If not, the special interests, Rob Tunnell and his ilk, will win. I intend to hold them accountable either way, and I hope you will as well. If you support the bill, (politely) make that phone call, or e-mail, urging your legislators to support the bill. In case you’ve forgotten, here’s what this modest bill would do:
SB 205(Ennis) seeks to keep the (manufactured housing) tenants at least even with Goliath. It would provide that, if an owner desires to raise the average rentals charged to homeowners in a manufactured home community more than the increase in the Consumer Price Index For All Urban Consumers for the preceding year, the owner must seek approval of the Governor’s Advisory Council on Manufactured Housing. The bill would enable the Council to consider information provided by the landlords that would warrant an increase above the increase in the CPI. The bill would essentially take the arbitrariness away that had enabled landlords to suddenly impose huge rent increases with no warning. In other words, this bill seeks to protect 30-45 thousand people who live in Delaware, and live in fear that they can be uprooted at any time. The landlords would still get their increases, they could even be higher than the CPI if they can justify them.
This bill passed the Senate with the bare minimum of 11 votes. I have been told that many senators considered this a ‘free’ vote b/c they think that it will not pass the House. They probably think that it (a) will not come to a vote; or (b) a killer amendment will be added. After all, you don’t have to kill Bambi, you just have to starve Bambi. The House has 26 D’s and 15 R’s. In other words, if Democrats truly represent a Democratic constituency, there’s no reason the bill can’t pass.
Here’s the key vote –
http://legis.delaware.gov/LIS/lis146.nsf/7712cf7cc0e9227a852568470077336f/dfe385e6a31882d085257a2200782b43?OpenDocument
Pete knew he had to vote yes but plenty of his NCC DEMs voted no to keep the issue safe for the land lords.
Oh. I understand. Pete didn’t vote the way that fits your meme, so surely he must have persuaded other colleagues to vote no so that he could vote yes.
Perhaps someday you’ll provide a scintilla of proof.
oh yeah, very likely. Your asking for proof…for presenting memes that fit one’s presumptions…that’s rich!
Nancy, that post says it all. The bill should have passed, it was the right thing to do and the Democratic leaders failed us. Money talks, and it says POWER. The tunnels, the Heislers, the Classes and the ELS organization have the money and to them went the power. The Democrats had control and failed to use it. What happened to the Party? Where did doing the right thing go? That bill didn’t take anything from the landlords, it just gave thousands of Delawareans a chance to level the playing field and of course the money boys could not allow that. The simple question here is, Why did the Party fail us, did they sell us out that quickly and completely?
Note to PainesMe: Paul did meet Jesus, according to this account in Acts. He was born a Jew and had joint citizenship in Taurus and Rome, probably due to his father’s wealth. Paul’s encounter with Christ on the Damascus Road was not a gentle spiritual experience’it was a physical battering to the ground by the power of the divine Savior that left Paul both terrified and completely blind. Paul and his escort were within sight of the city of Damascus when a brilliant light from heaven engulfed them. Paul and his companions collapsed to the ground, and Paul heard a voice saying to him in Hebrew: Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? It is hard for you, kicking against the goad (Acts 26:13-14). Realizing he was having an encounter with the divine, Paul asked: Who are you, Lord? And the voice answered: I am the Jesus whom you are persecuting. But rise and stand upon your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to appoint you to serve and bear witness to the things in which you have seen me and to those in which I will appear to you, delivering you from the people and from the Gentiles’to whom I send you to open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me (Acts 26:15-18).
Just saying……………If you want to read more, I can give the site for this Bible study of St. Paul.
Gilligan is among the “No” votes. Do you really want to blame Pete for that? And if Gilligan was against it, what makes you think it was Schwartzkopf who had to convince others to vote against it?
Paul never met Jesus during the latter’s lifetime. He either had a hallucination from smoking too much Roman ganja or figured out he could attain more temporal power by claiming to see a resurrected Jesus … so a druggie or a dictator. (He was an asshole, too.)
@dixie. – personally i want to know what the illegals have to do with any of this
Lets just take you anger out on “the other?” Is that it?
If you are such a christian please justify your christianity with the following statement by Jesus
“New American Standard Bible (©1995)
“The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’
Welcome one another, therefore, just as Christ has welcomed you, for the glory of God.
– Romans 15:7 (NRSV)
Deuteronomy 10: 19 You shall love the stranger, for you were once strangers in the land of Egypt.
Leviticus 19:34 The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.
“What do we want the church to do? We ask for its presence with us, beside us, as Christ among us. We ask the church to sacrifice with the people for social change, for justice and for love of brother and sister. We don’t ask for words. We ask for deeds. We don’t ask for paternalism. We ask for servanthood.”
– César Chávez
http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/immigyoder.html
Now- u want to talk about those illegals some more? You r the PERFECT example of the standard hypocritical Christian that ENSURES that people like me dont go to church anymore and snicker at “Christians” like you.
I would rather talk with a member of the Aryan Brotherhood- they at least are honest
MASSIVE RESPECT TO PAINESME AND ROLAND……
You blow smoke to cover the truth. Kindness is necessary in a christian’s life but it does not justify the abuse of kindness especially in today’s politics and financial situation. I know who I am and what I believe and try to live by, but telling the truth is not being hypocritical, it is being honest about an unfair situation. I will not turn the other cheek when my religion is attacked, I will not turn the other cheek if my family is attacked and I will not turn the other cheek when abuse and injustice is done, because I am only human, I am not Jesus and I am imperfect and while I strive to correct my faults, I also recognize that God gave me free will and the strength to stand up for what I believe is the truth. I do not believe Jesus is pleased that some people take advantage of other people, and maybe by speaking out about those people abusing the system they will see what is wrong about it. The Liberals like yourself seem to think that only you know what Jesus wants and only you are “Christ-like” but you know what, enabling people to continue on the road of poverty, many times through dishonesty, without them trying to help themselves is a disservice. Frankly, I think people like you need to jump on your causes to make yourself feel better about yourself. I don’t feel the need to apologize or defend my writings. This is what I see and since it is all a matter of opinion, we will just have to disagree and end this pointless discussion. Primarily because I don’t have to justify myself to you. To answer your original question, IF you read my first post, I explained why I felt disenfranchised by the liberal Democratic party in this county, state and country. The issue was pointed out when I explained who I felt the “takers” were in this economic system. So stop beating a dead issue, I have explain what I think and why and you disagree. Too bad. Life will go on.
@Ms. Boucher: Yes, you explained yourself very clearly: Your concerns, not the concerns of those others whom you scorn, deserve the support of us liberals.
You’re not a hypocrite because of your particular understanding of Christianity. You’re a hypocrite because you think your cause, your particular complaint against the ruling class, is more valid than the complaints of others. In fact, you think them deserving of nothing but your ill judgment of them.
Your blind spot is right about where your mirror should be.
No, you don’t have to justify yourself. And we don’t have to give you the time of day. By all means, join the GOP. That’s where people as selfish as you belong.
I was not going to get into this debate as I always know it to be a losing battle because you believe what you believe but I will say this: It never ceases to amaze me that most people do not see how easily they are being spoon-fed issues to camouflage real issues like Wall Street. Why is it that all the people call for immigration reform never look to the real issue THE PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES who knowingly employ undocumented workers at sub-standard wages (and in sub-standard conditions). These employers are rarely if ever portrayed as the real CRIMINALS and the real PROBLEM! Stop them and the issue becomes moot.
I am not going to argue the point of illegality in the United States I am just asking you to look compassionately at what has transpired. The Mexican poor, in stark contrast to the American poor, hold an unquestioned assumption that they have to earn their way. They break their backs in the fields (often covered with carcinogenic pesticides), they are laborers and janitors or whatever work they can get. Argue the point that we need to secure our borders and our Government needs to do their friggin job when it comes to that – – but do not scapegoat the Mexican people as being responsible for our economic problems . . . we let our politicians create that mess ourselves!!!!
Geezer, your attempt to incorrectly interpret my comments won’t work anymore than PainesMe or Aione’s did. I never once said my concerns were the ONLY concerns invovled. The Welfare system is one big mess because of it’s genuine effort to help people who need help, the system has allowed abuses to get out of hand. There are some people cheating the system and it includes other people of other races as well as the illegals. What I have been exposed to here in Delaware is primarily the illegals, so I pointed them out. You made 3 whopping comments about what Ithink, what I said and whom I scorned and they were in your mind, not mine. Obiviousely, you have trouble understanding english, but that is not a surprise. And who are you to judge me? At least I am an honest Democrat, not a phoney who hides behind Liberalism and disavows any other opinion. Where is the diversity in your kind of Liberalism?
“Obiviousely, you have trouble understanding english, but that is not a surprise. And who are you to judge me?”
If nothing else, Geezer is a man who knows how to spell the word “obviously”. He is also not a Democrat, if what I’ve heard him say is true.
There is plenty of diversity here, Dixie. Stick around and watch the various factions argue and curse when they disagree with one another. Hell, just google my name & JPConnor, Jr.’s name. You’ll see plenty of “diversity”.
BTW, in the future, if you’re going to quote me, get the fucking quote correct. I never said “have fun with your trailer” as you’ve claimed. Simply scroll up & read exactly what I said.
I also recognize that God gave me free will and the strength to stand up for what I believe is the truth.
Has it ever occurred to you that what you believe to be true might be different from the truth? If not, you might want to reread geezer’s sentence about the mirror and the blind spot.
Here’s my main problem w/ you, Dixie–
You’ve made many claims and assertions. Those claims and assertions have been refuted by facts. You’ve chosen to bury your head in the sand & claim that others are “blowing smoke” rather than present any evidence to support your claims and assertions.
In short, you are certain you’re correct although you simply cannot support your position with facts. You’ve proven yourself a bigot & a crybaby. You’re perfect fit for the Tea Party faction of the crumbling Republican Party.
Have a nice life.
Oh ok. So you are only a christian when its convenient and/ or when you can afford it?
Nice………
“Kindness is necessary in a christian’s life but it does not justify the abuse of kindness especially in today’s politics and financial situation”
That is how i read the above quote….
Honey YOU may have a matter of opinion. I actually have a matter of facts
How much work do you do in the immigrant community….?.. Do you do any. Or do you just listen to other “opinions”. Yeah that is fact based
How much work do you do in the black community? The homeless community? The asian community?..
Or how much is others opinions…..
Yu really are a waste of my time and typing- but i wount let your slurs and “opinions” go unanswered. Not that you will change them but maybe someone will see you devoid of facts!
How many illegals do you know Dixie? How many? How do you know they are illegal!
They have a red letter on their forehead or something? What gives it away?
Coz if you can tell someones immigration status by looking at the then ICE has a job waiting for you and you can afford to move out of your trailer
Of if you can tell by their ability to speak english or have a discernable accent- really. Go apply!
Of isnit that their skin is brown or black? Ever wonder what that native people think when they look at you?
Think about that.
Roland, You need to scroll up and see what you said and what I said, I repeated your comment, “GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR TRAILER” and yes, I am yelling. You are wrong and the proof is right in your own words. But I am sure you will go off to some other imagined thing I said and deflect the issues again. What an imagination you have.