Comment Rescue: Liberalgeek on taking over the Demcoratic Party
Now I love me some LG, but there is a big post hoc, logical fallacy in his normally crystal clear thinking. But first, this…
I guess the plan is to win hearts and minds with an air war. Sounds reasonable.
Why not both? Air war and ground war. Withholding votes from Democrats and working inside the party are not mutually exclusive. I don’t plan on working inside the party, but knock yourself out. AND don’t vote for Dems who haven’t earned your liberal vote.
If you are clamoring for the Democratic Party to move to the left, but are unwilling to actively participate in politics outside of election day, you will be left with exactly what you already have.
The only reason that there are any progressive voices around here is due to the Dean campaign. The beauty in his campaign was the ability to get people involved in the campaign. There were meetups, blogs were started (this one included) and people stepped up to join committees and start organizations (like PDD).
And why were people involved? Because Dean delivered a Democratic message that resonated. The blogs and meetups were not contrived to move Dean onto a traditional Democratic message. You’ve confused cause and effect.
A decade has passed since then. Some of us are still involved, some have settled in for armchair bitching and some have dropped out of politics altogether. But if you don’t think that the Howard Dean message was “Let’s roll up our sleeves and get to work”, you weren’t paying attention.
Settled in for armchair bitching…? I resemble that comment. Again, the message “Let’s roll up our sleeves and get to work” was the rejoinder to the main message… “The Democratic Party is the Party that looks out for the little guy.”
Rolling up my sleeves to help John Carney help the banks? That wasn’t Dean’s message.
Jason, do you know who Darryl Scott is? Darryl and I are friends – we did Crossfit together and trained for and participated in several triathlons – and even though I disagreed with MANY of his positions (especially in the last 2 years), I still have respect for him.
I bring him up because I think he was in the position to make a fundamental “progressive” change to the Delaware Democratic party in the Legislature. He was pretty moderate when he won his first election but slowly moved further to the left and his years went on and all the while garnered growing support from not only his constituents but also his peers in the House.
I haven’t had much contact with Darryl over the last few years as I dropped out of the crossfit world to finish my MBA, so I don’t know exactly why he chose to leave the Legislature, but I think he was you best bet for a fundamental change – and now he’s gone. Some have suggested that Sean Lynn is also progressive, but he’s also a lawyer, so you can’t really trust him (I’d choose Chick if I was in 31).
Your bias against lawyers is ugly. I know some truly evil businessmen with MBAs. But I don’t judge all everyone with an MBA as untrustworthy and evil. But perhaps I’ll start.
“Let’s roll up our sleeves and get to work” from Howard Dean was not about helping John Carney, but in helping to push forward candidates that were in line with your own values and goals. In the context that LG was using it, it means putting forth better candidates, supporting those candidates, helping to get other people to support those candidates. Primaries is how to get the attention of the “establishment” and winning primaries is how you get better candidates. The only way that any candidate in John Carney’s position cares about your 3rd party votes (or an undervote, for that matter) is if he loses. Otherwise, he’s in, he’s free to do what he is going to do and free to not pay attention to you next election round. Because he is playing a 50% +1 game and you are just trying to get your feelings acknowledged.
Primaries are the currency they’ll understand. Primaries mean you have to make your case with the people who vote in primaries. Plus taking over Dem committees, but that is change over a longer term.
Didn’t say “everyone” did I? Dover’s a small place.
I’m with LG. If we want better candidates we have to work for them. Here’s another thing… Progressives/Liberals aren’t the majority in the Dem party. I wish we were, but we aren’t. Which means we have to work harder… you know, change hearts and minds.
And, DD, I’m tired of the lawyer jokes, too. Especially since it was those “brilliant” MBAs that crashed the economy. 😉
I’m not tired of lawyer jokes … I just haven’t heard a new one in over 20 years.
One of the challenges the D’s face is the same challenge that R’s faced when they had close to 30 representatives in Dover a decade ago. The district committees in effect are controlled by the elected officials and, indeed, they’re called ‘Representative’ district committees for a reason. The majority of the committee is almost always deferential to the incumbent representative.
The last thing a sitting D legislator wants to do is to create an opportunity for an up-and-comer to topple them. Which shortens our bench. Just like it shortened the R bench for years. Even at the state level, our bench is shorter and it’s aging. Aside from, say, a Bryan Townsend, who is the next big thing from a progressive standpoint?
Of course, the D’s have a strong registration edge, but the principle holds true. More and more the Sean Matthews way of challenging an incumbent is gonna have to happen if there is to be any movement. And, if you remember, Dennis Williams effectively ousted Matthews as the Chair of that RD Committee.
There was a time when I hoped that PDD would provide a real alternative for progressives, and maybe it will again take on that role, but that’s a thread for another day…
Cassandra, all of that AND don’t vote for Dems that have not earned your liberal vote. I disagree that it is invisible to Carney. Right now we are an invisible part of the Dem coalition because the votes are automatic.
Also- I’m only talking about non-close elections of course.
We are an invisible part of the Dem coalition because we *are* invisible. No one is going to notice the votes they don’t get unless they lose. In which case it is too late for the candidate and you still have to be sure those who are left take you seriously. Command some money, a good number of votes, campaign workers or even a communications venue that people listen to and then you have something to bargain with. Heck Dennis Williams won as Mayor in Wilmington with about a third of the votes and he has been ignoring people ever since.
Every good politician (and campaign manager) knows how to count votes. Giving up on a few automatic votes to a 3rd party is part of the deal as long as you can still get to 50% + 1.
My take- All Dems want to win by more rather than
Less.
So, we”ll have to agree to disagree. In the meantime, I’ll avoid poo-pooing your quixotic strategies if you avoid pooing on mine.
Of course they want to win by more rather than less. But the operative word is still win, which is still 50%+1. If for some reason John Carney wins by a very close margin, he isn’t going to be thinking about how to capture more liberal voters. He won, and he’s thinking that the next time he is running is in a Presidential, when progressives will be otherwise distracted and the pool of voters is greater. And the invisible is still operative.
We can disagree, but then I’ve run a few campaigns and been the person mapping out where the votes are on a few more. Politicians may want to be liked by the greatest number of people, but they want to win more. It’s alot less quixotic to remind people about the work of campaigns than it is to pretend that an easy 3rd party vote is somehow meaningful to a winning candidate.
I don’t see the point in keeping any tools in the toolbox.
My votes today were mostly about punishing incumbents in some way, to the extent that they care.