Thursday Open Thread [9.10.2015]

Filed in National by on September 10, 2015

NATIONAL–PRESIDENT–REPUBLICAN PRIMARYCNN/ORC: Trump 32, Carson 19, Bush 9, Cruz 7, Huckabee 5, Walker 5, Fiorina 3, Paul 3, Rubio 3, Christie 2, Kasich 2, Graham 1, Jindal 1, Santorum 1, Gilmore 0, Pataki 0, Perry 0

IOWA–PRESIDENT–DEMOCRATIC PRIMARYQuinnipiac: Sanders 41, Clinton 40, Biden 12, O’Malley 3, Webb 1, Chafee 0

Said pollster Peter Brown: “Sen. Bernie Sanders has become the Eugene McCarthy of 2016. He is the candidate of the Democratic left, against his own party’s bosses and their prized presidential candidate, Secretary Hillary Clinton. Sanders has seized the momentum by offering a message more in line with disproportionately liberal primary and caucus voters.”

He can also be described as the Howard Dean of 2016. The key question is whether he is the Barack Obama of 2016. Because McCarthy and Dean both lost.

Eugene Robinson highlights all the reasons President Obama has to smile:

He seemed to smile throughout the trip [to Alaska], and why not? The nuclear agreement that Secretary of State John F. Kerry negotiated with Iran is now safe from congressional meddling. U.S. economic growth for the second quarter was a healthy 3.7 percent. Unemployment has fallen to 5.1 percent, according to figures released Friday. Saudi King Salman — portrayed by Obama’s critics as peeved with the president — dropped by the White House on Friday for a chat, reportedly renting an entire luxury hotel for his entourage. And this month, Chinese President Xi Jinping is scheduled to arrive for what promises to be the most important state visit of the year.

Obama gives the impression of having rediscovered the joy of being president. Maybe he really needed that Martha’s Vineyard vacation. Or maybe he is beginning to see some of his long-term policies finally bearing fruit — and his legacy being cemented.

The Daily Beast looks at the Fam-Fav number for each candidate, and finds that Joe Biden, Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are the strongest candidates, with Hillary besting all. Carson and Sanders are in a second tier that is well liked but not well known. The rest of the Republican field is the bottom tier.

A good baseline measure for candidate viability is what we call a “fam-fav” analysis: familiarity and favorability measures for each candidate. Typically, candidates early on in their campaigns struggle most with name recognition: those who people recognize do better (than they would or will otherwise) solely because people recognize their names (familiarity) and indicate in polls that they would vote for them. By pairing this with data on how favorably people feel about the candidate, we’re often able to identify early likely winners and “duds.”

For example, if we look at the 2011/12 Republican Primary candidates, Romney had the strongest fam/fav combination—he ultimately taking the candidacy. Comparatively, Herman Cain, while polling well-known—was indeed a “flash in the pan” given his weak favorability scores.

As such, we would expect that while Trump’s familiarity levels would be very high, his favorability would be comparatively lower due to his non-political background and blustering persona. However, we can see in the chart below that Trump enjoys very high fam/fav ratings and indeed clusters with “serious” politicians Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton—far outstripping all his Republican opponents on both familiarity and favorability measures.

better President than Reagan ever was, when it comes to jobs and unemployment.

So how’s the President doing on job-creation as we celebrate Labor Day 2015? Paul Krugman reports, “As of last month, the U.S. unemployment rate, which was 7.8 percent when Mr. Obama took office, had fallen to 5.1 percent. For the record, Mr. Romney promised during the campaign that he would get unemployment down to 6 percent by the end of 2016. Also for the record, the current unemployment rate is lower than it ever got under Ronald Reagan. And the main reason unemployment has fallen so much is job growth in the private sector, which has added more than seven million workers since the end of 2012.”

Today in Outrageous Trump Quote of the Millenium that will totally destroy his campaign but of course won’t:

When the anchor throws to Carly Fiorina for her reaction to Trump’s momentum, Trump’s expression sours in schoolboy disgust as the camera bores in on Fiorina. “Look at that face!” he cries. “Would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that, the face of our next president?!” The laughter grows halting and faint behind him. “I mean, she’s a woman, and I’m not s’posedta say bad things, but really, folks, come on. Are we serious?”

Fox News’ Megyn Kelly asked Fiorina to respond to Trump’s comments during a Wednesday night interview.

“Well, I think those comments speak for themselves,” Fiorina responded, adding that the “many, many, many, thousands of voters” who support her are “very serious.”

The man is a misogynist. Any woman anywhere thinking of voting for him hates herself and her gender.

Ed Kilgore says the GOP can screw up a one car funeral. Greg Sargent says the GOP is going to snatch defeat from the jaws of defeat.

What am I talking about? Well, we all know that the Iran Deal is done. President Obama has secured the support of enough Democrats in the House and Senate to not only sustain his veto of the potential Disapproval Resolution from the Congress, but also to filibuster the Resolution in the Senate so that it never passes in the first place. And that is not sitting well with your Radical Republican. They hate it when the President and America wins. So instead of going through with the vote on the Iran Deal and passing their Disapproval Resolution, radical conservatives in the House have hatched a new plan that is also doomed for failure.

The Corker-Cardin Act passed and signed into law last spring that provides the mechanism of Congress’ review of the Iran Deal provided for 60 days for the Congress to review the Deal after it had been executed and after the Congress had received all the documents requested relating to the deal. All the documents pertaining to the deal were delivered to the Congress as required by the law, and the clock started running. The clock expires on September 17. If Congress takes no action by then, then it looses its chance to do anything that can affect the Iran Deal (not that they have that chance now in reality, but by law they do).

I’ll have Vox explain the new plan for the GOP:

So now the new hotness among Republicans is that they shouldn’t bother voting to disapprove of the Iran nuclear deal, and instead should vote for a resolution that, according to Politico’s Jake Sherman, “would delay a disapproval vote because they believe Obama has not disclosed some elements of the deal.” The entire caucus is not yet on board, but it looks like they’re moving in this direction.

The entire House caucus is not onboard, and the Senate wants no parts of this. Not mention, the allegation that the deal documents were not produced is an outright lie by the Republicans.

Republicans’ argument is basically this: President Obama promised to send Congress the full text of the Iran nuclear once it was reached (true), after which Congress has 60 days to review before voting on whether to disapprove of the deal (true), but Obama did not technically complete his end of the bargain (false) because he did not send Congress the text of the “secret side deal” with Iran (complicated; see below). Therefore the 60-day congressional review never happened (false), thus the deal is illegitimate (false).

The alleged “secret side deal” is an agreement between the International Atomic Energy Agency (the UN nuclear watchdog) and Iran over how the IAEA will conduct certain inspections and verification procedures of Iranian facilities, as well as IAEA investigations into past elements of Iran’s nuclear program that may have had a military component.

The IAEA has such agreements with every country where it works, including the United States. Because the IAEA wants as much access as possible, and because countries do not necessarily want the details of their nuclear facilities broadcast to the world, the details of these agreements are typically secret. That is the case with the IAEA’s agreement with Iran.

It is not a “side deal,” nor is its existence secret; the nuclear deal requires the IAEA to monitor Iranian facilities, so naturally the IAEA was going to work out the logistical details of that with Tehran. As nuclear experts Mark Hibbs and Thomas Shea explained recently in the Hill, anyone with the most basic knowledge of the IAEA understands that this is how it works, and that this secrecy ultimately helps the IAEA — and thus the US — against Iran’s nuclear program:

The IAEA has safeguards agreement with 180 countries. All have similar information protection provisions. Without these, governments would not open their nuclear programs for multilateral oversight. So IAEA Director General Yukiya Amano was acting by the book on August 5 when he told members of Congress that he couldn’t share with them the details of a verification protocol the IAEA had negotiated with Iran as part of a bilateral “roadmap” to address unresolved allegations about Iran’s nuclear behavior. […]

Republicans are now pretending that this is all a big surprise and that they have a right to see the complete text of any IAEA agreements. In fact, there is nothing guaranteeing Congress review over IAEA agreements with Iran. The IAEA would never agree to such a thing (fortunately for the US, which has its own agreements with the IAEA), and neither would the Obama administration.

Don’t take my word for it: You can read, for yourself, the law that Congress passed articulating its authority to disapprove the Iran deal. Section 135 describes the congressional review period, and specifically articulates the documents that the Obama administration is required to give Congress. There is nothing in there about the text of IAEA safeguards agreements with Iran.

So the GOP is going to lie and say that the President did not give them all the documents required by law, even though the law says that Congress is not entitled to the documents the GOP is saying Obama did not give them. And thus, the GOP will get to call Obama a liar and a deal-breaker and pretend the Dictator is going through with an illegitimate, all the while never voting on it.

I say Obama and the Democrats should call their bluff. Every Democrat in Congress and the President should say to every Republican: if you really believe that, and if you really think that is true, fucking impeach me. Do it. Put your money where your lying mouth is. What are you afraid of, you fucking Republican cowards? Impeach me.

“People like Bernie are always attractive, as I was. They speak truth to power. The problem with candidates like that — and like me — is that as you get closer to election time, you’re more careful about how your vote’s going to be used. You’re going to tend to want to see somebody who you think looks presidential as the nominee of your party. That’s one of the things that sank me.”

— Howard Dean, in an interview with the Washington Post.

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  1. Jason330 says:

    “secret side deal” email servers, Benghazi, Death Panels…on and on.

    As your cartoon from earlier today points out, the Republicans have an endless supply of bullshit to feed into the media machinery. Some of it passes through quickly and is forgotten. Some of it captures the imagination of some news editors and so it sticks around. The unifying theme is that the Republicans don’t give a rats ass about governing and they would take a shit on the constitution on prime time TV if they thought it could “hurt” the President.

  2. Dorain Gray says:

    Oh for fuck sake another bullshit “electability” quote. Who “looks presidential” is based on who we say looks presidential. The idea that anybody would base their vote mostly on what they guess other people might do is so fucking childish. Like the 3rd grader who waits to see how many of his classmates raise their hands affirming a teacher’s question before deciding whether he’ll raise his hand too.

    And Dean’s idea about “how your vote’s going to be used”? It’s going to be used to say I support this candidate over that candidate. Of course it takes votes away from the latter. That’s the point of voting.

    This entire argument is an attempt to get people to fall in line because that is how we perceive politics is done – by faction and party. (Didn’t Hamilton warn against this in Federalist #9 and also Madison in Federalist #10?) This time eight years ago BH Obama was a junior Senator and HR Clinton was the obvious Democratic nominee (we were told). But now we’re just suppose to shrug and take the sissy way out… because this is how we’re told the process works.

    Aren’t you the cat who from time to time laments why so many people don’t vote? Well the next time you feel sad and wonder why this is so read your “Building the Party” post.

  3. Mikem2784 says:

    A tall backwoods lawyer with a squeaky voice and little electoral experience, an African-American with the middle name Hussein, an actor, a peanut farmer….none of them sound electable to me.

  4. Dorain Gray says:

    And three of those four were elected twice. But I suppose once you win a first term you are then considered “presidential.”

  5. Delaware Dem says:

    Today I didn’t make any arguments, Dorian. I just asked a legitimate question and then quoted Dean. Relax. 😉

  6. Dorain Gray says:

    Don’t be daft. It’s supporting your argument. Own it. You’ll vote for whomever you’re told to. I personally enjoyed the options for the poll answer… It perfectly illustrates your view.

  7. Delaware Dem says:

    First off, I will vote for whomever I want to. You can go fuck yourself with a chainsaw for that “you will vote for whomever you are told to” bullshit. I like Hillary. I like her more than Bernie Sanders. I think she has a better shot at winning the general election than Bernie. That is why I have decided to vote for her. Indeed, the way the media is treating her, I am going against the grain, and you my friend, you Dorian Gray, are the one following the lemmings and voting for whom you are told to.

  8. Anonymous says:

    Let’s just vote along party lines, whatever it says on your voting card. You don’t even have to think.

  9. Delaware Dem says:

    If you Bernie Sanders supporters want respect you better give it first. When you give disrespect and mockery, you will get it in return.

  10. Dorain Gray says:

    Bullshit argument again. Weak. Very weak. Aren’t you an attorney? This has nothing to do with Sanders v Clinton. Also, I never said you couldn’t vote for whomever you wished. I never ever made that argument and I never ever said I was anti-Clinton.

    You are the one who wrote an entire fucking post saying you’ll support the party nominee no matter who it is. NO MATTER WHO IT IS! Because… politics. That’s “going against the grain”?

    You argue that one of the biggest issues for you is electability and who you guess the majority of others will vote for. Right against the grain…

    You included the Howard Dean quote in the open thread post and created a funny little poll question… I think that entire idea is nonsense. Stop changing the subject to something else.

    I actually don’t know who I’ll vote for and wrote as much on numerous occasions. I do support Sanders now, but the election is pretty far off. I’m not disrespecting any serious candidate or even you personally. I’m calling your reasons weak.

    I find it very interesting this response of “I’m not, you are.” It’s the reply of somebody who has no defense for supporting the Democratic Party’s “fill-in-the-blank.” That’s the issue to which I take exception.

  11. Anon says:

    Sanders supporters kind of remind me of Ron Paul supporters in the GOP. At first the tea party people and establishment told them to go along to get along. Now most of them, at least from my personal experience, have abandoned Party altogether.

    It would be refreshing if Sanders had a lasting impact on the Dems. I’d rather it be a head to head debate between two ideologies (socialism & capitalism) rather than the current different flavor of the exact same thing battling it out while pretending they are very different. Both Parties could benefit from non establishment candidates like Sanders and Paul.

  12. Anonymous says:

    DD “I think she has a better shot at winning” There you go, you don’t care about her platform, just who has a better chance of winning.

  13. Dorain Gray says:

    And for a guy who laments the fact that so many people don’t vote to explicitly say that the election is fundamentally a popularity contest seems just a bit ironic to me.

  14. mouse says:

    Happy 2nd season!