Bernie Sanders can go fuck himself.
So. Over the last 24 hours, Bernie Sanders and his campaign has decided to break their word and attack Hillary Clinton personally. First, the top Berniebro out there, Jeff Weaver, said yesterday that he sure hopes Secretary Clinton doesn’t “destroy the Democratic party to satisfy the Secretary’s ambitions to become the president of the United States.” “We want to have a party that we can unify.”
Ok. Let’s unpack that for a moment. Hillary Clinton is winning.
Repeat after me you fracking Sanderistas: Hillary Clinton is actually winning this primary. She is beating Bernie. She has more pledged delegates than him. She has more actual votes than him. And those leads are not close.
What Weaver said is usually what a frontrunner says to the second place runner up.
A second point regarding this statement is that it is not Hillary Clinton that attacks and destroys Dmeocrats and Democratic unity. She has spent 40 years as a loyal Democrat, raising money for down ballot Democrats, campaigning for down ballot Democrats all over the country for decades. Bernie has never raised a single fucking dime for anyone but himself, and he hates the Democratic Party and all Democrats. He admitted that the only reason he is running as a Democrat was for media attention. He cares not for changing the party, for bettering the party, for electing more progressive members of the party. He cares only about himself.
So… doesn’t that make Bernie Sanders the ambitious one here?
A third point, the ambitious attack. That is a common smear used against professional women every where. “She’s too ambitious.” Thus, this was a sexist anti-woman attack on Hillary Clinton. And for it, Jeff Weaver and Bernie Sanders can go fuck themselves.
Hillary, for her part, did not go there when responding on Jake Tapper’s to these horrible attacks.
She took the tact that she is the most loyal Democrat who cares about the party and the Sanderistas are just desperate flailing people right now. And she is right.
I won’t be as kind.
And that was BEFORE Bernie Sanders said that Hillary Clinton is now somehow unqualified to be President. What?
Seriously, what?
The only universe in which Hillary Clinton is unqualified to be president is one where women are viewed as inferior nothings who should be seen and not heard, who should keep house and raise babies but not vote.
Sanders this morning is furiously backpedaling, saying he only said that because Hillary said he was unqualified on Morning Joe. And that is yet another lie from Bernie, because she did not say that, even when prompted by the shit stirring Joe Scarborough:
Scarborough: We’ve been talking about Bernie Sanders’ New York Daily News interview. And I want to start with that. And ask you in light of the interview, in light of the questions he had problems with, do you believe this morning that Bernie Sanders is qualified and ready to be President of the United States?
CLINTON: Well, I think the interview raised a lot of really serious questions and I look at it this way. The core of his campaign has been ‘break up the banks,’ and it didn’t seem in reading his answers that he understood exactly how that would work under Dodd-Frank, exactly who would be responsible, what the criteria were, and you know, that means you can’t really help people if you don’t know how to do what you are campaigning on saying you want to do.”
Scarborough: So is he, is he qualified? …I know there are a lot of examples where he came up short and the interviewers were having to repeat questions and so the question, and I’m serious, if you weren’t running today and you looked at Bernie Sanders, would you say, ‘This guy is ready to be president of the United States’?”
Clinton: Well, I think he hadn’t done his homework, and he’d been talking for more than a year about doing things that he obviously hadn’t really studied or understood, and that does raise a lot of questions. And really what that goes to is for voters to ask themselves, Can he deliver what he is talking about, can he really help people, can he help our economy, can he keep our country strong?
She never said Bernie wasn’t qualified to be president even though Scarborough was begging for it. Did she play rough? Absolutely. That Daily News interview was a disaster for Bernie, because it revealed that he lacked knowledge in the area that should be his wheelhouse.
So Bernie can go fuck himself, and not only should be get the fuck out of this primary now, he should resign his Senate seat to Howard Dean and then never be heard from again.
Complaint List:
Bernie’s sexist: Check
Bernie’s not a true Democrat: Check
The other candidate is lying: Check
Hillarybots Jimmies status: Rustled.
I don’t pledge loyalty to a party. Never have. I pledge loyalty to ideals and policies. I affiliated as a Democrat specifically to vote in Delaware’s archaic closed primary and will be unaffiliating afterwards. I’m not a loyal Democrat either.
#ohhillno
Barney Frank lays it out pretty well here. https://goo.gl/KCKTdg
And the vetting continues….
So. Does this mean that you won’t vote for him if he’s the nominee?
I dunno about the Howard Dean choice — I understand he is a lobbyist for health care concerns now.
No, I will support him in the extremely unlikely event that the Sanders bastard is the nominee, because I am not a holier-than-you traitorous purist like others.
Cross off Elizabeth Warren, too, since she hasn’t been consistent in her issues and has evolved. She was an actual Republican until – when? – 1995?
Cass, I was just looking for some other Vermonter that would be ready to move up to the Senate. Howard Dean came to mind. Governor Lynch is another.
Seriously, get a grip. Sanders has run perhaps the least aggressive campaign against a ‘presumptive nominee’ that I can remember. Doesn’t care about her e-mails, thinks Benghazi is Rethug bullshit.
A Greenpeace activist, for bleep’s sake, asks her about her campaign petro-dollars, and she goes off, saying that she’s ‘sick of all the Sanders campaign lies’ about her. Despite, you know, all the oil industry petro-dollars she’s collected.
Not a peep from you people.
Now he has the nerve to call her out on her corporate-funded campaign, and you all go apeshit. Tell me again who has not been properly vetted?
Sanders views her corporate ties as being disqualifying for the presidency. Not technically, of course, but disqualifying b/c someone with such ties can hardly be expected to help rectify the massive wealth inequity here and, for that matter, throughout the world.
Horrors!! He should go fuck himself, he should take it back (but he can’t take it back).
For me, it simply reinforces why I much prefer Sanders to Clinton. Bill helped get us in this mess (yes, with his ‘two for the price of one’ First Lady), and Hillary gives us no sign of being even willing to try to get us out of this mess.
You people? Nice.
Sanders made an if by whiskey speech. If the shoe fits, wear it.
If you break down Sanders’ comment, there were three specific policy charges after the “not qualified” part. Hillary and her supporters apparently hope we will be too distracted by the first part, and ignore that she has no answer for the other three charges.
Nope. This is still Bernie’s mess to clean up. One of his, and his supporters, biggest gripes is that he didn’t get media coverage. Well, he’s getting it now. His, and some of his supporters, problem is that they don’t want the sort of coverage he’s getting – coverage that every other candidate (D and R) have been dealing with. Having a temper tantrum put him off message. He owns this coverage.
You People from folks who think criticizing the ambition of women is a good critique of ability.
And I am going to go back to a point I made yesterday — if Hillary Clinton had given an interview as utterly unfocused as Sanders’ was, it would have been a a real mortal wound for her. As it should be. Yet here we have Sanders supporters completely dismissing the fact that he can’t even map out a pathway to getting some of his signature initiatives done — even for banks where he has previously supported a rational method to get them broken up.
So we are pretty clearly no longer in principled opposition mode — this is just more Clinton Derangement Syndrome which you need to stop. The right wingnuts do this better and sharper than you do and even that is just plain boring.
Sign me,
I’ve Stopped Writing Checks to Bernie
I’m seeing a lot of faux outrage, and the kneejerk invocation of sexism, but no rebuttal to the policy contrasts drawn by Sanders. That’s fine for blogging, but the voters of PA and NY might be looking for something more substantial. Hillary should return to the policy-based debates she was priding Democrats on not so long ago.
^^^^ I endorse what Cassandra said 1000% percent. And I just gave to Hillary. Again.
No, puck, my outrage is real.
I guess this is what DL becomes during an election year? Jason writing “Bernie-centric”/”Down with Hillary” screeds with DelawareDem writing the opposite in favor of Clinton?
If this continues into the early summer, the site could well become as intolerable as the new Batman v. Superman!
This video clip is what I wish some “neutral party” could do to the Clinton and Sanders campaigns (especially Bernie and Hillary): https://youtu.be/QPPN_gkj_gk
[Note: I wrote the same thing on Jason’s post, in case there develops a DMZ amongst sides and posts.]
Screed? I reserve all my screeds for Mike Castle (RIP), George W. Bush (RIP) and the Dutch. My post was a thoughtful, measured and well argued essay.
“No, I will support him in the extremely unlikely event that the Sanders bastard is the nominee, because I am not a holier-than-you traitorous purist like others.”
No, you’re just a garden-variety asshole.
Delaware Dem and Pandora ought to open a whine shop. It will be well-stocked.
This is how you act with a mild criticism like that? What’s going to happen when the attack ads start? People don’t vote for people who go around shouting “no fair!”
you people… and by that I mean, DNC loyalist hacks… whoever you may be… will be unable to destroy Sanders, without discrediting his causes and his supporters. Not that it cant be done, but it is the way YOU PEOPLE do politics. Cant beat the person? beat their ideas, make their supporters look bad, make up fake scenarios and give them cute pejorative nick names. It’s disgusting.
I find myself having to willfully separate Clinton from people like DD, because if I though she was that kind of Demo-rat, i could never bring myself to vote for her.
You people have an entire generation of voters who desperately want something other than the DNC-prescribed hack to vote for. You people are damn lucky the GOP is as bigoted as they are… it makes it so we HAVE to have to vote Democratic….. take that in.. I have only ever WANTED to vote Dem 3 times. Obama’s nomination, and both times he ran for president. Every other election I’ve voted in, I’ve been well aware the Dem i was voting for would sell me out to BoA in a heartbeat if it meant one more dollar in campaign contributions.
Apparently “you people” has been flagged by the language police. And liberals claim to not know what all the political correctness talk is about…
Yes, it’s a phrase meant to signify disdain. Didn’t know it could also wilt delicate flowers.
It’s a common phrase used by racists… because of that, it is also something one needs to watch for, lest they say it and give the person they are arguing with a way to de-rail the conversation onto a new topic and to discredit the person who said it. A trick DNC party-loyalist hacks love to use…. but given the title of this thread is telling a life-ling warrior for equality to go F himself… and by extension, everyone who supports him… i think we can go ahead and throw decency out the window… Just remember DD, and the other DNC loyalist-hacks.. you started this as soon as you clicked “publish” on the thread.
I know Hillary is going to be the nominee. I know Bernie’s not able to win at this point. But on April 26, I’m voting for him anyway. I want to be inspired – like I was by Bill Clinton in ’92 and Barack Obama in ’08. I want someone with a vision who can articulate action, not incrementalism. The details come later. I want someone who can go into office with a mandate, not just win by default because the other guy is a sleazebucket. I want a fighting liberal whose instinct is not to appease and mollify, but to wage total war against the rich.
I’m not going to get any of that with Hillary. She’s going to be a four-year caretaker like George I. But my primary vote for Bernie tells her that she needs to change, and fast. It’s the least I can do for my country.
re you people: More faux outrage to distract from the rest of the comment.
Sanders’ actions are entirely in keeping with his objective to win the White House. There is no surprise there. Nor should there be any real outrage. He is not about continuation of a legacy, cementing any gains, keeping the GOP out of the White House, SCOTUS appointments, or anything else that members of the Democratic Party would be about.
Calls for unity doesn’t mean beans to him because in his view (Bernie or Bust) there is no downside for him. He is an independent and can play irascible curmudgeon with GOP Congress, Democratic Congress, or whoever in the White House. Really, there are only upsides.
I differ from Bernie in that I think it matters that we have a D in the WH. That the Ds get to pick the SCOTUS and that we have someone to counter a GOP Congress. It matters a great deal to me. It’s more important than his ideals or his revolution because the next 8 years will effect the next 50 years.
I’m an independent that believes it is essential for the Democrats to retain the White House. Sanders is an independent that believes it is essential for him to be in the White House and absent that, it doesn’t matter who is there.
You want someone who cares about that party… that makes you about as credible as John McCain and his Party First approach. FUCK. THE. D.N.C. got it? I really try to hold back on the profanity here, so when I say FUCK. THE. D.N.C, you know i mean it. I care about the country. I care about the people the DNC bargained away… like your dear party leader did so pay-day loan sharks could prey on the poor. fuck your party.
Lots of phrases are commonly used by racists: “I gotta take a shit,” for example, or “Hey y’all, watch this!”
In this case it was obviously used to say “you Hillary people.” For people to pretend that it’s racist in this instance is holier-than-thouism.
“Sanders is an independent that believes it is essential for him to be in the White House and absent that, it doesn’t matter who is there.”
That’s not at all what he has said.
If Democrats want more votes, they might try appealing to actual voters instead of campaign donors. Therein lies the problem.
Pandora explained the reasoning the other day: We can’t compete without money, we can’t raise money unless we woo big donors, we can’t be liberal because our donors don’t want that. Welcome to today’s Democratic Party.
“wage total war against the rich.”
I’d wage that war with smart bombs, not with nuclear weapons. There is a right way and a wrong way to soak the rich. I think the “right way” is somewhere between Hillary and Bernie, but closer to Bernie. Taxes and regulations should be designed to encourage productive uses of wealth, not necessarily for simple confiscation.I would be all out for Hillary in a heartbeat if she would just adopt a few of Bernie’s positions and campaign on them.
Hillary will never do that. She sits to the right of Obama… Maybe not at far as Carper…. Who, because he has always been a Democrat, DD must like a whole lot now….. But she will simply NOT reverse marriage equality while selling out everyone else, and claim to be a liberal lion… And the DNC party loyalists will char anyone who takes issue. The look of the party is more important to those people than the over all well-being of the nation.
THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END!!!! AMERICA WILL BE TORN ASUNDER IF [insert: Hillary or Bernie] ISN’T ELECTED PRESIDENT!!!
HELP US, SUPERMAN!!! SAVE US FROM THE POTENTIALLY HORRIBLE AND CATACLYSMIC ABOMINATION THAT WILL BEFALL US IF [insert: Hillary or Bernie] USURPS AND DESTROYS THE GREAT AND NOBLE DEMOCRACY OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!!
AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!
“Pandora explained the reasoning the other day: We can’t compete without money, we can’t raise money unless we woo big donors, we can’t be liberal because our donors don’t want that. Welcome to today’s Democratic Party.”
Yeah, not what I said.
that’s not what you said no… but that’s the reality.
We’ll never end C.U until some brave politician refuses to play along and generates a lot of attention and excitement, despite MSM blackouts of their rallies. Too bad there is no one running like that.
Yeah, it is, just not in those words. I’m not going to run around trying to find the quote. If you want to, just to keep your record pristine, have at it. Whatever the exact words, it amounts to the same thing: We need the money. Once you’ve decided to take money from corporations, the rest falls into place, whether you said it did or not.
I don’t think they will be able to ignore Sanders’s rally next week in Manhattan’s Washington Square Park.
They’ve been doing a pretty good job at it so far. He goes after the media, but isnt as good for ratings as Trump. He doenst make money for them, so they have no reason to give him free air time. It is all about the money. Citizens united is bad… i hope to GOD we can all still agree on that. Clinton is benefiting from it. I hope we can all agree on THAT. You don’t have to take the money, if you make NOT taking the money a centerpiece of your campaign. Sanders relies 100% on social media to be visible to the public. It can be done. But as long as the DNC gets behind C.U and uses it to win… and as long as DNC-Loyalist-Hacks are telling true public servants to FUCK THEMSELVES (i’m not letting that go. It was uncalled for and shows your true colors as a Democrat first and a liberal/progressive/American second.) … things will keep inching toward the monied interests.
BTW, my comment about “you people” wasn’t about political correctness – it was about lumping all Hillary supporters together, something Bernie supporters say they don’t like when it’s done to them (like #notallmen). I was asking for the same courtesy.
I’ll also point out that I haven’t called names. I have asked questions, but given the response, on this and other threads, I guess that’s a bridge too far.
And, AAA, money matters in politics. I said that it would be great if it didn’t, but it does. I’ve also said, many, many times, that I would want, and be 100% okay with, Bernie taking every cent he could get his hands on if he was the nominee. I wouldn’t be the one calling him a hypocrite. I’d call him smart. But, for some reason, you get off on putting words in my mouth while ignoring my point. This. Is. A. Political. Blog. We discuss politics and strategy.
There’s some tit-for-tat in there. D(nc)D used Berniebro in his disgusting and disrespectful post. You talk about having to play the game by the rules that exists…. well, here it is. I for one am not going to sit back and keep pleging loyalty to a party that so clearly views my concerns… and the concerns of most people my age… with such boomer-esqu disdain.
” I was asking for the same courtesy.”
I know you arent DD’s mom.. as you’ve said before.. and I’m not asking for you to answer for him…. but if you are going to bring up courtesy or civility, you must apply it to everyone. It is impossible to be courteous to people who see you as an uniformed obstacle.
This is simply the first of many punches thrown. It’s politics, and he needs a better response. This is what it looks like when the “media blackout” is lifted.
FYI: My daughter attends Temple. She was going to try and go to the Bernie rally – I encouraged her to go; told her it was history in the making – but she had classes she wasn’t going to skip. (I’m so proud)
She texted me later: “LOL! I’ve never seen so many white people at Temple.”
Now, she’s not a political junkie and she wasn’t trying to score a point. She likes both candidates, and I’m fine with that. She simply made an observation.
Pandora: Where the money comes from matters. You seem to think it doesn’t. The “high Dems” didn’t think it mattered, either, and look where we are today.
Bernie is not the point. The point is change vs. status quo. Those doing well with the status quo are, for the most part, for Hillary. My status quo is just fine, but I don’t think electing the non-change candidate is going to help us, either now or down the line.
I’m not a fan of Sanders the man, but he’s the only one promoting change from the left (I think of HIllary’s program as inching to the left so nobody notices the change). I think her presidency will be good for women, minorities and Wall Street capitalists.
Hey Ben, the attack from Weaver was pure sexism and misogyny. Thus, the use of Berniebro is appropriate. I will not apologize for it, not until Weaver resigns from Bernie’s campaign.
@ben: Give DD a break. He’s just so worried the Republicans will win this election that he’s beside himself. He’s always calling for one drastic action or another.
“fuck your party.”
Ain’t my party Ben. I’m unaffiliated and have been for centuries.
Long before a lot of other people got religion I recognized the parties for what they were and decided I did not want to be a part of that. But, if you think it doesn’t matter if you have a Republican Congress and Republican White House and several additions to the Supreme Court. If you think that doesn’t matter to this nation and its people, then I would just prefer that you stay home and yell at the TV. Because it does matter more now than it ever has before. If it didn’t I would stay home and yell at the TV.
glad to hear it. that was obviously, not directed at you.
was there a comment deleted? anyhoo, the divide in the party is generational. I though I saw someone call Sanders a Boomer before the comment was taken down…. he is, in fact, 5 years too old. (they typically start in 46, he was born in 41) I know it’s “technicality”… but that’s what DNC people love.
oh, and damn right i’m using all the tactics i have been claiming to hate. If the DNC nominee can use Citizens United to their advantage, despite claiming to be against it, I dont have to stick to any rules either.
“glad to hear it. that was obviously, not directed at you.’
Sorry about that, I got lost in the thread.
yeah, it happens. Im done with playing the loyal opponent. If the DNC, and their party-first loyalists have no use for the idea’s i’m (and many many many young voters are) passionate about, there’s no reason to stay with the party. Sanders clearly puts the country ahead of the party and that gives him more respectability than any party hack, no matter who they are. It’s political wind-socks like the current presumptive nominee that can go….. I wont even say it, because it’s crass and I still yearn for a better discourse.
^^^Your problem, of course is that you refuse to come to terms with the fact that politics at this level *is* party politics. Just because you WANT does not mean you will GET. The DNC will respect your *ideas* when you routinely show up to advocate for them and back candidates who will push those ideas forward. If you aren’t challenging the status quo on the field that is most vital, you simply cannot be surprised when people ignore you.
I can’t believe the total freak out because your candidate made a mistake. Sheesh, address it and get back on track.
Until yesterday, I was actually hoping that Hillary would choose Bernie as her running mate.
Not any more…
Good riddance.
“Just because you WANT does not mean you will GET. ” DNC slogan! You know what Conservatives WANT? they want to control women. guess what… they GET what they WANT when they are in control. When Dems are in control… we get incremental change that comes at the cost of something else they want. If we arent willing to fight fire with fire, we’re going to keep defending ground we should have locked down DECADES ago.
It’s not the mistake I’m upset about. It’s the obvious reality that the mistake will be used to discredit the entire movement and will be used as “proof” that all things Sanders are bad. the Third Way establishment wins again. who freakin cares? If it wouldn’t kill a part of me I’d sit this one out…. but i HAVE to vote for your candidate. I have to vote for your party, because the alternative is the end of the world. Delaware goes to the corpricrat every election anyway….. btw, What does Hillary think of Glass-Steagall?
Wow, Delaware Dem. You sound pathetically unhinged. I sincerely hope you don’t own any firearms.
@LE: Sanders would be a terrible choice for VP, even before this past week, unless you think she needs to shore up the white male vote.
I agree LE. Sanders and any ally of his just lost any chance that they will be VP. And until Bernie genuinely apologizes and enthusiastically endorses Hillary at the Convention with no strings attached, he and his people get no consultations on appointments and no concessions on the platform.
@DD: Just once, I’d like to see you go on a rant in which you issue no absolutist decrees. Alas, I don’t expect to live another 36 years. 😉
And there we have it. The DNC excuse to kick the hippie. This is the happiest day of the campaign for DD.
Wow! And I thought my post on Exceptional Delaware back in January was bad. I got raked through the coals by Prop Joe for using such harsh language! Where is that criticism now? But seriously, its not like Hillary hasn’t said something wrong during all of this either. Like “where was Bernie when I was pushing for universal healthcare?” and the very famous social media picture that stated he was standing right behind her. This is all politics, designed for people to react and get mad.
shhhh. we arent allowed to bring up questionable things Her Flawlessness has said. True Democrats only speak ill of Bernie the Bum and his Band of Bros. get with the program.
You’ll have to be more specific, Kevin… You’ve had a number of posts in which you “shot first” and “aimed later.”
“shhhh. we arent allowed to bring up questionable things Her Flawlessness has said. True Democrats only speak ill of Bernie the Bum and his Band of Bros. get with the program.”
LOL! Sure, go with that. People aren’t allowed to question and/or insult Hillary around here and elsewhere? Self-awareness is a curse.
FYI: If a movement can be discredited by one man then it wasn’t a movement. I’m not even sure why you think everything was destroyed.
“You’ll have to be more specific, Kevin… You’ve had a number of posts in which you “shot first” and “aimed later.”
Given the amount of work Kevin has put in, his ratio of “home runs” to clinkers is better than most. I for one am deeply appreciative of the live blogging and analysis Kevin has done from education-related committees, and the deep dives into othewise opaque documents. He has brought the cast of characters to life for me. You can’t get that anywhere else. Keep rolling, Kevin.
Bernie blames the press for what he said. Sorta, they made him not read the article, just the headline?
His quotes are interesting in the article:
They should both shake hands and publicly agree that the other is qualified to be President.
LOL! So if it had been Clinton who said this stuff you would expect Sanders to step up and publicly do the same?
Does Sanders take any responsibility for this? After all, he’s the only candidate who called someone unqualified. But sure, keep making her equally responsible for his behavior.
Isn’t Kick the Hippie an emo band?
Please correct me, where I’m wrong.
She’s been a US senator and Secretary of State (12 years), while he’s been a Mayor, US Congressman and Senator (34 years).
She is a Liberal, who believes that democracy is basically working fine, that if people work hard they can overcome disadvantage, achieve the American Dream (that our children will be better off than we, if they aren’t born autistic and are willing to work) and that with some minor tweaks to the system, things are generally pretty much ok.
He, on the other hand, is a Progressive, who believes that the system itself is corrupt, needs major overhauls and that democracy is being held hostage, by wealthy bullies, who will not rest until they’ve destroyed the planet, enslaved the people with poverty and have taken ALL the marbles.
She receives money and seems to vote in favor large radical industries like Monsanto, Big Pharma, Wall Street, Tax Shelters / basically Free Trade for the wealthy, Big Oil (fracking, pipelines), Defense Contractors and Donald Trump.
He receives money from delusional working individuals, who believe that they are equal to the wealthy class and that the Constitution and American Experiment, is real, belongs to all and must be defended. and that people can have gus for hunting and what not.
She is married to the first Black President and has no difficulty making decisions, without understanding the facts or their consequences and is willing, nae excited to send our children off to war for profit and personal advancement, without a second though.
He is married to a hippy, fights for equal rights, believes that decisions have consequence and must be made with gravity, in the sanctity of life, for all, not just the entitled and in mandatory National Service for all, to ensure that we take pride in our Great Nation and stay out of wars for profit.
With over 50,000,000 people in our country on food stamps, the highest incarceration rates of any culture in history of the World, “not enslaving a peoples”, jobs and corporations being shipped overseas, the stranglehold upon democracy by people who aren’t even human and the the discrepancy between the working class and the aristocracy, being so catastrophic, I say let them eat cake, while we cut off their FUCKING heads !!!!! if we’re going to use that kind of language
Sometimes, the best woman for the job, this time, might possibly be a man.
Oh Fucking come on, WAKE UP AMERICA !!!!
fucking idiots can’t see a con man/woman, even as their steeling your watch, picking your pocket and fucking your wife/husband.
I guess, we do get what we deserve.
Pardon the dyslexia, another inditement of our fantastic educational system. Thanks, Bill.
Stuart-
Did you take spelling lessons from Jason330?
Here’s what the Center for Public Integrity added to the discussion today:
https://www.publicintegrity.org/2016/04/07/19521/how-citizens-united-helping-hillary-clinton-win-white-house
So how bout Bubba white-splaining his crime bill to BLM? Yeah man, poor children destroyed inner city communities. It totally wasn’t 3rd-way crime bills, designed to appease right wing trolls. But of course all the attention is still on how people are reacting to reaction.
No Jason330 was busy.
She is qualified. Shiesty is a very important part of getting things done politically.
But I think appearing shiesty, maybe not so good. Just ask Donald Trump or Ted Cruz or his wife.
So how bout Bubba white-splaining his crime bill to BLM?
So how if I blacksplain to you how African American communities were all about this crime bill? And to some extent still are? When you live in the middle of the terror long enough, you are going to endorse pretty much anything that will reduce that terror you live with. African American communities were by and large OK with Clinton’s crime bill because a punitive attitude to the gangsters who were shooting up and otherwise destabilizing neighborhoods was AOK. As was the effort to put more cops on the street and to better address domestic violence. It has taken 20+ years for people to start catching up to the idea that this escalation of the War on Drugs has been even more destabilizing of African American communities. And for those who don’t much care about communities of color, they are coming to grips with the fact that the costs are no longer sustainable.
But make no mistake about how well this bill went over in the African American community when it was passed. And — I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again — I can take you to community meetings in Wilmington TODAY where residents are STILL calling for locking up the miscreants on their corners.
There’s definitely more of a conversation on education and prevention and better re-entry services and baby steps towards decriminalization here as a way to slow down the pipeline to prison. There isn’t enough of that yet, but it is tough to miss the young activists who are at the spear tip of this conversation here. But you can’t sneer at the Clinton Crime Bill without sneering at the level of terror that residents of some communities live with (and continue to). At some point, you just want to be able to sit on your front steps in peace and some of these folks are plenty fed up enough to just want them in jail and out of their hair.
BLM is quite right that aspects of that Crime Bill were very destabilizing to communities of color (and provided the impetus of growth of the pipeline to prison), but Bill Clinton is also right that there were an awful lot of African American communities who were just fine with this bill when it was passed.
@Cassandra: I think the problem for Bill is that admitting the unintended consequences of his early ’90s approach would potentially hurt Hillary’s campaign. The protesters were, I think, just trying to get him to lash out like this and succeeded.
Old, cranky white guys, especially under stress, are likely to lash out.
I agree with Cassandra on this and know it to be true. Bill tried to explain it, but he was not in the right venue to make his point.
But I also agree with today’s critics of the crime bill. The outcomes have spun out of control. But the answer is not to excoriate the politicians behind the bill. Just fix it.
Bat Out of Hell is now ahead of Who’s Next? The world has gone mad.
Watching the BLM movement is fascinating and I cheer them on. They should keep at it! Not one candidate has been able to address them competently – because the conversation needed is one we’ve avoided forever and white people aren’t equipped to lead it.
Pink Floyd are not true progressives.
^ the most incendiary thing said on this blog all week. by a long shot.
By the way, which one’s pink?
Pink?
Hillary is definitely closer to Red on War, Monsanto, Trade and the Environment.
Bernie is so blue, I’d almost call it Green.
Roger Waters endorsed (sorta) Bernie Sanders.
@Cassandra: I think the problem for Bill is that admitting the unintended consequences of his early ’90s approach would potentially hurt Hillary’s campaign.
Perhaps. The flip side is that Bill Clinton is absolutely right person to explain this, either the history (which I heard some of and which was pretty loudly cheered, the small bit I heard) or manage a pivot that proposes how (20+ years later) the Crime Bill could be revised to support the kind of criminal justice reform that Cory Booker and Rand Paul have been advocating.
I think some posters misunderstood the article. It’s not that you can’t support Sanders (I did until his supporters insulted female voters who might prefer a female candidate; and having Killer Mike as a surrogate; and the sexist uterus remarks), it’s just calling attention to the sexism in the campaign. Just like HRC’s 2008 campaign had some racism.
It is absolutely necessary to support either candidate, whether Sanders or Clinton gets the nomination. Think of it as voting for the Democratic Party over the Republican Party and just leave personalities out of it.
All this sexist garbage from the Sanders campaign has hurt Sanders. Martin O’Maley, despite his “Annie Oakley” remark, I think handled gender matters better. O’Maley criticized HRC for her pro-war stance and corporate capitalism without the Hillary Hate and monster Hillary tactics. (Sanders hurt O’Maley’s campaign. ) All this Hillary Hate and monster Hillary (or Debbie Hate and monster Debbie) buys into the garbage of evil women and such. Yes, it is possible to criticize Clinton without promoting hatred of Clinton.
There has also been sexism in holding Clinton totally responsible for Iraq War and Libya War. Isn’t Pres Bush and Pres Obama also to blame? While criticism of HRC’s cooperation in husband’s abuse of women is valid, is that a reason for electing Trump? Trump has a history of domestic violence, marital rape, sexual harassment and sexual humiliation.
Also, beginning to wonder if Sanders is not a tool of the Republicans. While he worked with HRC in the 1990’s when she headed the committee for single payer healthcare, he also voted against the Bill. But then, men are not accountable for their actions.
All this anger that Clinton needs to get out of the race for Sanders… well, I think Sanders was the one who hurt the chances of Martin O’Maley, a pragmatic practical progressive Democrat, tough on crime but wanted to hold the Police accountable for their actions, progressive on social issues… and able to criticize HRC without gender hatred.
Just vote for the Democrats and leave personalities out of it, if your preferred candidate does not get the nomination.
Martin O’Malley, like Hillary Clinton, polled the voters to determine his positions. That won’t fly with people who are looking for authenticity. Crafting your position is a defensive posture. Screw that. At root, O’Malley is about as “progressive” as Tom Carper.
I can’t say this enough in trying to explain things to HIllary’s actual supporters, as opposed to those who will vote while holding their noses — I, and I think others like me, are looking for candidates who already think like we do. Adopting the positions because they’re popular might be what politicians do, but you can’t force people to like it or to vote for it. And perhaps you can understand why, no matter what she says on the campaign trail, we don’t trust her to follow through on positions she has only held for a few months.
Ya know, AAA if Hillary just adopts the most popular positions, we must never shut up about what our positions are. If she exists day-to-day on what the polls say, let’s make sure those polls say what we want. Sanders will not be president. Your choices are a mad-man who would allow genocide to take place on American soil, or a deft politician who basically does whatever her most powerful constituency tells her to do. Be that boss.
He said that she was unqualified, because she unethically accepts evil money. That is not a personal attack. The ethics of a political candidate and their ownership, by wealthy corporations and puppeteers, who will dictate the national agenda, is a very real and serious topic. Which is partly why the the Republican candidates are, in my view, unqualified and partly why Donald Trump, love him or hate him, is getting so much traction. They think he can’t be bought.
Why is it not yet illegal to hide money in overseas accounts?
Why is it not yet illegal for corporations to hire undocumented workers?
“Unqualified” wasn’t meant literally. It’s like when Al Pacino in “And Justice For All” screams at the judge and the court, “You’re all out of order!” he doesn’t mean it in its literal legal sense.
You Can’t Handle The Truth!
I know my husband write for this blog and all but it is posts like this one which make me despise reading political blogs. Such bias and narrow minded drivel. It’s insulting really. Sadly, I do not think any of the candidates running for President are great. However, it makes it much more difficult to know what is what when political writers choose to sensationalize every bit of “news” by pulling pieces out of context, coupling it with a profane obnoxious headline and adding a very unflattering photo of someone. Distasteful.
That’s what 30 years of a Reaganomic education system will get you. Trees make pollution, elections are free & fair, ketchup is a vegetable and the Earth is flat, I tell you! Maybe elections do matter?
Wake Up America!!!
Seems to me that Bernie Sanders isn’t doing anything more than what Hillary Clinton the candidate did in 2008 against Obama: stay I the race until it was clearly mathematically impossible for her to win. But I suppose that’s okay for her to do and not Bernie because she’s am establishment Democrat and he’s not.
“Seems to me that Bernie Sanders isn’t doing anything more than what Hillary Clinton the candidate did in 2008 against Obama: stay I the race until it was clearly mathematically impossible for her to win.”
That 2008 race was a LOT closer. This one has been over for a while.
Here’s a quote from the movie “Gladiator” that seems apropos:
“People should know when they are conquered.”
Bernie should take his loss graciously, instead of helping the bad guys (which is about all he’s been doing lately)…
Ny will be very close in a coin toss, he’ll probably win Penn by a good margin and in Kalifornia anything can happen They’re like Wyoming, and almost never get to decide the nominee, by the time it gets there its usually over and they have a lot of people who refuse to vote, because many are jaded against the system and could turn out, feeling I’ll give it one last chance. Agreed, he might not win, by large enough margins to overtake her, but we will see, after the media and then the people have sse upoken. Oligarchy Bless America, because God seems to have forsaken us.
“Bernie should take his loss graciously, instead of helping the bad guys (which is about all he’s been doing lately)…”
Therein lies the problem. Sanders may not recognize the outcome yet. His supporters can admire his tenacity and perseverance. Others can suggest his idealism impedes sound judgment and decision-making. My view is that it’s arrogance and hubris that is the obstacle and that would continue to hamper him in the White House should he ever reach it.
Actually, Hillary wasn’t nearly as close in projected polls in individual states against Obama as Bernie is to Hillary now. Besides, Hillary herself had said that Bernie isn’t doing anything that she didn’t do against Obama and she understands his staying in the race.
It appears that only Hillary supporters oppose Bernie’s democratic rights.
And guess what? In 2008 we were writing the same things about Hillary. When the math became evident there were tons of posts on DL saying she should drop out and be careful what she says – and when she crossed the line we brought the hammer down. Hard.
Once again: This is a delegate race, not a state race. Close in polls doesn’t cut it. Bernie would have to be leading her by huge percentages (and then winning by those %ages) just to catch up to her.
And there are no “democratic rights” in a party primary. There are party rules. Take a good look at what the GOP is considering – ignoring delegate math and running someone who wasn’t even a candidate. Do I think that’s fair? Nope. But it’s 100% allowed.
I guess I’m not remembering those posts on DL castigating Hillary for continuing to run when it was “evident” (?) she couldn’t possibly win the nomination.
“It appears that only Hillary supporters oppose Bernie’s democratic rights.”
“It appears that the rules should apply only when it benefits my candidate.”
There. Fixed it for you.
Let me jog your memory, Dana:
http://delawareliberal.net//2008/04/23/hillary-survives-but-the-math-is-still-not-in-her-favor/
http://delawareliberal.net//2008/04/23/hillary-is-winning-if/
http://delawareliberal.net//2008/04/23/matthews-makes-a-point-indicts-himself/
There’s plenty more.
Thanks for the links. I quickly read them. Saw a lot about how the math wasn’t in her favor. Saw nothing about an *explicit* call for her to leave. Did I overlook something?
These are the last links I’m posting because everyone knows how to Google. For fun, you should read the comment sections. Also, I have only linked to posts about delegate math, not the other DL posts that call her out – and not nicely. Rereading the 2008 posts attacking her is brutal.
http://delawareliberal.net//2008/03/24/im-backhas-hillary-quit-yet/
http://delawareliberal.net//2008/04/01/arbitrary-goalposting/
I’m tossing in this link, because boy does this sound familiar.
I wouldn’t call these attacks personal, given the truth about them. She has said, that he is not a democrat. And he is not saying, that she’s fat or smelly or sleeps with whoever or stupid or would be a bad leader, although she’s been very, very wrong, on every major political decision that she has faced.
She Questioned basically his Americanism, if you will, saying essentially that democratic socialism has no place in American politics (I guess FDR wasn’t a Democrat either?) and basically, he respond by saying, that she’s sold out to corporate interests and is preserving the status quo for the oligarchy. Both points, in my opinion, are valid and this is a discussion, that very badly needs to be had.
The two party system is ridiculous. I feel as a Democrat (have voted green on occasion, not in Florida, because their policies are often more progressive and aligned with freedom and fairness), that these issues need to be discussed and considered/adopted and at least Sanders is helping that conversation.
Every one of the Republicans, except maybe Kasich, haven’t really looked yet, budgetary plans involves tax breaks for the wealthy and large corporations, While adding to the debt, cutting the “Social Safety Net” (which is socialism!!!!!) and not helping our nation in the least continue towards future greatness, and is the one thing, that the accuse liberals of, that some how seems to stick. Not sure how, but it does. Tax and spend liberal is a dirty phrase, but somehow “stop tax and spend” is OK. ?
We need to work on semantics, in a big way.
Many of Sanders voters, probably would not vote anyway, because they feel that perhaps little can be done, but are at least engaged in the process.
With the demise of the Republican party, and the take over of the Democratic party, by centeriests and former republicans (who’s views haven’t changed much, the parties have), and corporations,
(I see the far left position growing dramatically, with people who feel the Democratic Party has tacked to the center and who no place in a party, that once prided itself on inclusion of different views)
I think, we will see the emergence of a Progressive party, but any real change is usually painful. Hopefully not in the physical sense.
I’m in the U.K. at the moment and people here seem very upset, about the lack of transparency in government and by officials, conflicts of interests. I however, have not heard the slightest peep from the media or government, on the latest issue of tax dodging, about even proposing laws to make that sort of thing illegal.
Everyone is saying that it’s morally wrong, but no one in the large parties, dare pose the subject, for fear of loosing backing from the aristocracy, just like here, with the exception of Bernie Sanders
The people, I speak with on the street, are almost up in arms and all they have here are knives. And bombs, I guess too, but many feel “well that’s just the way things are and will always be.” Sound familiar?
But we are Americans and time and again, from our very beginnings have said, “No that is not fair and we will not stand for it any longer!” If we are too gutless to try, than we will Never succeed, and the World and our part of it, will remain a nasty unfair place.
It seems, we’ve become a nation of frightened, lazy no-doers, happy with what we have.
Perhaps now is not the time for revolution. Sanders has said ,that when we are ready, the people will flock to the polls in revolt. This is maybe just a test, an evaluation to check to see, if there is still a pulse. Maybe the only heart, left in the country, is in an old Jew from the Bronx, who had to move to New England, the place where freedom was initially won, because everyone told him it was a waste of time.
He has also said, that Clinton is far better than anything else going, but shouldn’t we dare to be more.
Perhaps, we are truly, like the French in nature?
But the difference is,
that in the United States the People are afraid of the police
and in France the police are afraid of the People.