DL Open Thread: Tuesday, September 22, 2020
Rethugs Have Votes To Confirm Supreme Court Justice. Cory Gardner signs his political death warrant rather than doing the right thing.
Biden Doesn’t Mention Supreme Court Vacancy At Campaign Stop. Most feckless Democrat of all the feckless Democrats. More proof of his fecklessness.
Need Encouraging News? Absentee Ballot Requests Is (Are?) Your Manna. Explains why Trump will declare victory before they’re all counted.
Trump, His Company, Being Investigated For Tax Fraud. Needs all the corrupt judges he can get.
CIA: Putin ‘Probably Directing’ Russia’s Anti-Biden Campaign. This isn’t a bigger story, um, why?
Huge Victory For North Carolina Nurses. Overcome union-busters, win lopsided unionization vote. The company? Previously owned by Rick Scott. That Rick Scott.
How Nursing Home Entrepreneur Ripped Off Taxpayers For $76 Million. The entire industry is corrupt. Rot. Exploiting vulnerable citizens for profit.
Time For D’s To Divorce Building Trades. The building trades have already divorced themselves from the Democratic Party. They are led by white racists who have kept Blacks out of the trades for decades.
What do you want to talk about?
Biden’s unwillingness to fight is paving the way for his reconciliation strategy with McConnell and the right wing when he wins in November.
It’s a bold strategy, Cotton. < /sarcasm>
Red State front-pager, notorious for anti-CDC conspiracy screeds, outed as an employee in Dr. Fauci’s agency (and “will retire”).
https://www.thedailybeast.com/redstate-covid-troll-streiff-is-actually-bill-crews-and-he-actually-works-for-dr-anthony-fauci
I’m not ready to call Biden feckless and will give him credit for staying on message. No need for him to go all frothing at the mouth; that’s what surrogates are for. Biden is supposed to be projecting a more measured, dare I say Presidential temperament. Especially when he is ahead in every poll.
I’m totally behind court-packing, PR statehood, and a Day One filibuster repeal. But running on them as out-front campaign positions will be counter-productive. We have to get the White House and Senate first.
Right. Stand for nothing. Fight for nothing. Get elected. Magically turn into a progressive reformer.
Happens all the time.
With his Anita Hill record, Biden needs to tread carefully when criticizing a female Supreme Court nominee. Especially a woman of color.
Please. His timidity in even attacking the process is sad. You’re saying he should tiptoe lightly if (when, actually) a female who would eliminate Obamacare, end Roe v Wade, and shield Trump from legal liability is inevitably put forward?
” Especially when he(Biden) is ahead in every poll”.
I don’t know about that. When I drive over the line to Delaware county, PA, I see 10 to 1 Trump yard signs to Biden. And the polls predicted Hillary would be running for re-election now.
Methinks status quo Joe needs a 180 on stuff like M4A, student debt and rent cancellations for the Dems to take the WH in Nov.
Perhaps the Dems need to write off PA in future national elections since most of the ‘burbs are becoming white nationalist strongholds. Outside of Philadelphia I know very few non-minority eastern PA residents voting Democratic.
What? Traditional R counties like Delaware, Chester, Mongtomery and Bucks, huge counties all, have moved strongly into the D camp.
And I know lots of people in Montgomery and even Bucks, which is still slightly R, who are voting Biden.
Polls are imperfect — Clinton won by 2%, within the margin of error, remember? — but they’re a shit-ton better than driving around looking at yard signs.
Don’t bet serious money that the PA ‘burbs go Dem especially since they are all bright red in the 2016 map.
https://www.politicspa.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/PA-Map-2.png
But not in 2018, and they haven’t grown any fonder of Trump since. I’ll put down money if you want to bet.
You lose.
https://www.270towin.com/2018-house-election/states/pennsylvania
What are you talking about? Every suburban Philly district is blue.
Yes, but I stated PA (=Pennsylvania) suburbs. So you lose again. Nothing new.
PA suburbs arent a thing. that map shows a barely populated Pensyltucky. are you not from the area?
everything they’re doing suggests they dont expect any future election to matter. They dont care that they’re unpopular. They will just overturn the vote. Be a denialist if you want and call me a bed-wetter, but if it isnt obvious to you, it’s time to clean the shit out of your eyes.
The future isn’t obvious. It’s unwritten. Clean the shit out of your brain. Defeatism helps the enemy.
like Pavlov’s ostrich…….
I get you need to feel warm and fuzzy about the future, Yeah, it’s scary to think we are seeing the collapse of our nation. I hope we all make it through the next 10 years.
….. but if you’re so delirious that you have to revert to “we dont know the future” when faced with something so obvious, i just feel bad for you. When this all happens, i guarantee you I will not happily say “see i was right”. i WILL say “so what have YOU done to prepare?” This outcome is as clear as global climate collapse ( i assume you beleive in climate change even though it “hasnt happened yet”) which, now, will at least happen during a right wing dictatorship.
things you can do to prepare….
Stock food and water for extended periods of mass “unrest”
identify local groups who can mobilize to protect targets of political persecution… understand all PDs will be cooperating with the State, so begin cutting ties with any cops you know.
Start getting aware of your friends and loved ones in what will be persecuted groups. when they vanish, fight for them
John Brown gun club…. nuff said.
mentally prepare yourself. This is nothing. not saying panic, not saying give up. live and fight through this.
Trump will be president on jan 21. whatever trickery they have to do… even if it’s an obvious coup… will happen. Dont let it defeat you because you convinced yourself it was impossible. That is hard…. but you can do it.
I don’t feel warm and fuzzy about it. I don’t feel anything at all about it. What’s happening now is 100% certain to happen. Everything past that is just a probability. The probability that the Earth will continue to rotate is as close to 100% as it gets, but when it comes to human events, the cone of probabilities grows the farther out you get — think of it as a hurricane path prediction graph.
Your obsession is not reality. Sorry, but somebody closer to you should say it. You’d probably be wise to seek some professional help. I don’t say that as an insult, either.
You have become a doomsday prepper. I have known others. The fact that you think your apocalyptic visions are “obvious” is a sure sign of this.
Global climate change is scientifically observable. What you have observed is not scientific.
To be clear, we MIGHT be seeing the collapse of our nation. Preaching its obviousness is not useful, nor is all your prepping.
Your mental preparations are nice, but I made them all a long time ago. The difference — and it’s a big fucking difference — is that I am not preaching the worst-case scenario is inevitable. Because it’s not — and even if it were it would not be possible to know that now.
You want to play the Old Testament prophet. Have you bought your robe and grown out your beard yet?
your concern is appreciated?
Heres the thing. the crux of your argument relies on denying that the GOP…not just trump, but the GOP… are planning on staying in power regardless of the election.
you can say Nothing has happened yet” but it HAS. they HAVE stacked the courts to their advantage. they HAVE refined their talking points about an invalid election. they HAVE thrown up roadblocks to try and steal it without stealing with the courts. they HAVE forced out career government workers who could stand in the way.
“we’re doomed” isn’t helpful… that isn’t exactly what I’m saying. America as we’ve known it is probably doomed. but that doesn’t mean we have to be.
flat out denial also isn’t helpful and you never are able to express WHY…. despite clear evidence…. you think you’re right. I fear you are appealing to the better angels of the GOP and conservatize movement and that, my friend.. makes you wronger than Job Biden about the GOPepiphany.
Honestly, with any luck, our collapse can be confined to within our boarders and the rest of the world can move on. this country is old yeller.
I’m not appealing to anyone, and I don’t think I’m “right.” There is no right to be, as I’m not predicting anything.
You are predicting the future. There is no way to know the future until the thing you’re talking about occurs. I don’t know how to say this more strongly that I have — you DON’T FUCKING KNOW. NOBODY DOES. That’s what I’m right about.
If it comes to pass, then it does. If it doesn’t, it doesn’t. There is no point in predicting it. There’s no prize if you’re right, there’s no punishment if you’re wrong. It’s hand-wringing. It accomplishes nothing in the world of reality. It expresses your fears. That’s it. That’s all it does.
All the things you point out have happened have, indeed, happened, and what you’re talking about may well be what they hope to accomplish. But you predicting it ahead of time ACCOMPLISHES NOTHING!
What part of this don’t you get?
Your hand-wringing accomplishes nothing and is bad for both your psychological health and the psychological health of those who read it and internalize it. It’s not neutral, it’s harmful. For your sake and the sake of others, just knock it the fuck off.
Individuals are not stating definite outcomes, only possible if not likely scenarios based statements made by Trump and his operatives.
As the incumbent Trump has obvious advantages he didn’t have in 2016. Add to that his henchmen; Barr, McConnell. Graham, etc. have proven to be unethical to the core and will stop at nothing, even if it is illegal, to delegitimize a GOP defeat in November.
Use the F word all you want in your illogical tirades, it only reveals the ridiculousness of your arguments.
Read his posts again. He states them as facts. You, meanwhile, can’t even read a map you posted yourself, you fuckwit.
Play the dumbass somewhere else.
No, Nico is right. Don’t explain my meaning, albysplainer.
Reading between the lines is obviously beyond your level of intelligence.
i’ll try it again.
the GOP is acting like… as i said before…meaning it is a guess at their intentions based on their behavior….
they are acting like people who dont expect the election to matter. you are aware people can act guilty right?
They have stated.. clearly and without shame that their plan is to suppress the vote… or change the vote… or rig the courts to throw out the vote. if yu can prove that wrong, now’s your shot. my exhibit a-z are their statements and actions for the last 20 years.
the dem plan… and your plan apparently… is to hope super-dooper hard that it doesnt work. seriously, man, who is the crazy one here? I never said it was GOING to happen… although it seems pretty clear that it is playing out before us.
fuck. ive even said it doesnt mean we’re all doomed….. just that the USA as we know it is doomed… and who give a crap about this racist ass nation anyway.
There will be violence at polling places. Blooddied MAGA hat wearing grannies will lead the evening news.
Fox News and OAN will project Trump the winner at 11:05 on election night. NBC, CBS, and ABC will balefully agree that Trump “has enough states to win if the vote doesn’t change as mail ballots are counted.” Trump will greet his rowdy supporters triumphantly by 11:15.
Bill Barr has said that he will ensure that a Trump victory sticks. Duplicate ballots will be produced. Certification will bypass the states on the grounds that Dem Governors cheated, and the Supreme Court will certify the results.
None of this is being hatched in secret.
We can easily imagine this occurring but then I fear extremely catastrophic events happening. If the election is stolen the size and scope of the post-election protests will make the current BLM and similar demonstrations look like a Girl Scout meetup.
Trump and Barr relish the thought of crushing protests.
Also, none of this has happened.
I truly wish Democrats would stop writing their zombie-movie fantasies and proclaiming it to be anything but their fears talking.
If it comes true, are you going to run around shouting, “See, I was right!” A pointed way of asking, how do you think this helps anything? Does purging yourself of your fears — in the process transferring them to others — make you feel better?
I think not.
I’m not afraid of some odd thing happening at some point in the future. I see Trump actively accumulating the power to steal the election. I see him laying out the case for stealing it every time he speaks. Could he decide to not use that power? I guess so.
What else do I see? I see Barr and supporting all of Trump’s moves. And maybe worst of all I see our bulwark against that outcome – Coons reaching out to his prayer buddies.
I once saw Trump make plans to dominate Atlantic City with the best casino America had ever seen.
They make lots of plans. They are inept, so some of them they fuck up themselves.
Beyond that, your fears will only come true if every other player on the pitch — by which I mean the business community and the military, which actually run the country — decides that’s the right move.
You know of Trump’s plans because he’s too stupid to shut up about them. You don’t know of the plans of any of the other players except the Democrats, and you can’t even be sure you know theirs.
Your fear has been ginned up by the media, which is built on a business model of ginning up fear. Turn off the TV and don’t read the news for a few days if this is how you’re going to react to it.
“We’re doomed!” is not a useful message in any way.
I will take that advice, and report back in a week.
Perfect message for Morticians:)
Only if someone is alive to pay them.
Touche’
@Nico:
We used to get smarter trolls than this.
Philadelphia’s suburbs are more populous than the entire Pittsburgh metro area. Furthermore, Pittsburgh suburbs also went Democratic in 1918. See for yourself:
https://www.politicspa.com/maps-casey-and-wolf-voters-show-pa-shifts/90973/
We don’t take kindly to trolls around here, especially assholes with an attitude, so this is your last chance to avoid banning: Show me where my argument is, as you have claimed, illogical.
Demonstrate where the logical fallacy is and you stay. Fail to do so and you’re gone.
You’ve been gone mentally for a very long time. You have only demonstrated a convoluted argument that makes sense only to a delusional demagogue like yourself. I realize a mentally weak person like you doesn’t want fact based posts that devastate you pathetic arguments. So continue the name calling and threats. They only make you look more ridiculous.
Bottom line: PA is a divided state with the majority of congressional districts in 2016 going GOP. As stated by myself and others, to bolster Trump’s currently diminishing chances in that and other swing states his operatives will do everything possible, legal and illegal, to suppress mail-in ballots, intimidate voters, discredit the results, etc.
You’ve been gone mentally for a very long time. You have only demonstrated a convoluted argument that makes sense only to a delusional demagogue like yourself. I realize a mentally weak person like you doesn’t want fact based posts that devastate you pathetic arguments. So continue the name calling and threats. They only make you look more ridiculous.
Bottom line: PA is a divided state with the majority of congressional districts in 2016 going GOP. As stated by myself and others, to bolster Trump’s currently diminishing chances in that and other swing states his operatives are doing everything possible, legal and illegal, to suppress mail-in ballots, intimidate voters, discredit the results, etc.
but PA also had those heavily gerrymandered districts redrawn since 2016. you also SURELY know that way more people live in those tiny blue dodads than the red flyover country. …. so your posts.. while i agree with where you’re going.. arent, indeed.. fact based. oh an the person who runs a site saying they will ban you isn’t a threat. calm down.
You are correct in that the map illustrates area and not population. But as I stated the PA is a closely divided state with a majority of congressional districts, gerrymandered or not, held by Republicans. That is why GOP operatives are currently doing everything possible to make voting difficult in Democratic areas, disallow mail-in ballots (https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/22/politics/pennsylvania-warning-secrecy-envelope-2020-election/index.html) and discredit the election process in every way possible.
That is not why. They would do it regardless.
The election is not held by congressional district. Your metric is wrong, therefore your argument is wrong.
The issue was who people would vote for, not what dirty tricks the Republicans would pull. Now you’re moving the goalposts.
You can’t hang here, sport. Wrap it up and say goodbye.
The suburbs are not defined by election districts. The map I showed you was by county. You are not only wrong, you refuse to acknowledge that you’re wrong.
Your complaint about my writing is that you didn’t understand what I was saying. This is not surprising, considering your lack of mental acuity.
Your insults are meaningless, considering you have been wrong about. You have demonstrated no understanding of what I’ve said but have had plenty of insulting things to say about what amounts to your problem, not mine.
You were instructed to back up your assertion that what I said was illogical. You failed to do so, I presume because you know so little about logic that you can’t complete the assignment.
You get an “F” and will have to leave the course.
Buh-bye.
Your statement:
Don’t bet serious money that the PA ‘burbs go Dem especially since they are all bright red in the 2016 map.
You said suburbs, not congressional districts. You said they are “all” bright red.
This is the county-by-county map of the 2016 election. Three suburban Philadelphia counties, which together form the majority of the Philadelphia suburbs, are blue.
https://billypenn.com/2016/11/09/how-donald-trump-won-pennsylvania-then-the-white-house/
This obviously is not “all,” and your congressional district map simply has no bearing on the issue at hand.
@ben: You apparently can’t remember what you typed. Here:
everything they’re doing suggests they dont expect any future election to matter. They dont care that they’re unpopular. They will just overturn the vote.
Not “they will TRY to overturn the vote,” which is what you’re actually trying to say. They WILL overturn the vote.
That’s a statement of fact. I disagree with it as a statement of fact.
the dem plan… and your plan apparently… is to hope super-dooper hard that it doesnt work.
Plan? What are you talking about? Unless you intend to take up arms, there is nothing a regular citizen can do about this plan of theirs. There’s nothing the Democrats can do, either.
And what is your plan? It’s to hunker down, which has no more effect on the Republican plan than anything Democrats are doing. You’re just criticizing me for not shitting myself like you constantly do.
My response to your doomsday-mongering is that you should take that defeatist shit somewhere else, because it not only doesn’t help, it hurts.
You have said nothing to dispel that opinion.
oof. ok. someone is driving down the road and the light turns red. They will stop at the light.
Have i just dared to play god and predict the future?
no.
I have made an informed statement based on how things work. I know you know this, but hell. it’s the internet and we’re not here to be all fluffy to each other…. you taught me that <3
Look, I'll stop bumming you out for now. It is encouraging to see democrats mentioning these things and trying to find ways to stop them. hey, it just might work. The news might actually be able to report that Biden won more EVs and the GOP might not be able to use their packed SCOTUS to overturn so many states that Trump stays president. in that…. possible… scenario, we'll just have to fight to get through the power handover (we all know peacefully is out of the question) and put down whatever pro-magat insurrection comes of the whole thing. ROSY DAYS AHEAD.
Your assumption is a good way to get t-boned.
The situation we’re discussing is far more complex than the one you chose for your analogy. Yet a measurable percentage of people run red lights every day, so in a way it illustrates what I’m saying.
You can go ahead and assume a car will stop for a red light or a stop sign, but a significant number of collisions and pedestrian deaths come from people who don’t.
It’s not a certainty.
Also, too, I don’t think there are good things ahead. You misunderstand. I don’t think about any future outcome, at least not in the sense you seem to. I try to stay in the now. The future is all possibilities of varying degrees of likelihood.
You are correct about what appear to be Republican intentions. As I noted, they are not hiding them, and couldn’t even if they wanted to because Trump is such a blabbermouth.
But you aren’t recognizing that these are desperate measures, and they’re being taken because they have no chance to win a fair election and they know it. They can’t even win an unfair election with their old voter-suppression methods alone, and they know that, too.
The future you suggest is one possibility, and far from the least likely. But it is not inevitable, and I refuse to think that it is. That is psychologically debilitating, and falling into that pit could induce clinical depression, which is why I suggested you might want to talk to someone.
You are far, far from alone in your feelings. I’m simply trying to tell you that those feelings aren’t good for you, or for anybody else. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst is always sound advice. You have prepared for the worst. Now you must nurture your ability to hope.
Fair enough.
I guess with the president now saying OPENLY they will get rid of ballots and that there will be no transition of power, there isnt much need to point it out anymore.
Hope is fine, but hope without action is for suckers.
You dont have to live in constant fear of your house burning down to see the need for fire extinguishers in every room or have second floor escape ladders handy.
Im not sure what those things translate to in this context, but…. to extend that…. we dont know if the arsonist IS FOR SURE going to burn down the house, true. but he has doused it in gasoline, started lighting matches, declared his intent to burn it, and convinced 1/3 of the people in it to burn it down as well.
trump winning caught me off guard. it caught a lot of people off guard. we werent ready. Never again. The worst case scenario should be prepared for and even expected. Good news is, it looks like people are awake.