Liar Liar Pants On Fire
Mike Castle has been on the defensive lately. He’s become the posterboy for Republican hypocrisy, especially the “trash and grab” strategy of trashing the stimulus while showing up to take credit for projects created by the stimulus. He comes off as quite defensive in this WHYY interview:
Castle also defended himself against accusations that, while voting against the stimulus, he’s shown up at events touting stimulus spending in Delaware.
“I certainly did not vote for it, and I’ve said that at every single appearance I’ve made.” Rep. Castle explained, “Having said that, I’ve said also, once that stimulus bill passed and the money was appropriated, I wasn’t about to let it all go to another state if I could get something for Delaware. I consider that to be the absolute correct way to proceed.”
The Delaware Democratic party dug up this video of Mike Castle at the Fisker event. The Fisker deal was funded with stimulus money, and Mike Castle even thanks Obama and Biden in the speech (about 1:30 in the video).
I didn’t hear anything in that speech about how he opposed the stimulus, did you? Oops! Nice try, Mike Castle but Castling isn’t quite working for you anymore is it?
Ed. note – There is a dispute about how much the Fisker deal was funded by stimulus funds. Most funding came from a 2007 law, but Biden states that stimulus funds were used as well. More info on this topic would be appreciated.
Tags: ARRA, Mike Castle, Stimulus
Isn’t Castle’s position like… I’m against students stealing copies of the test, but if they do I’ll use them to get an A?
Years ago, when I was battling for inner city schools it was made clear to me that if I backed off I could get my children into the “best” school in the district. I paid tuition instead.
Castle’s explanation doesn’t make any sense anyway. Who in their right mind would go to an event with a big stunt check and say “by the way, I voted against this funding.”
jack markell will be on c-span Sunday morning at 8:15!
I was wrong…Markell on this morning. The rerun is on now.
Now in addition to being a hypocrit he is lying douche bag hypocrit.
You gotta admit, it would be great if politics were as nice as this event. There is a slight chance Castle could be a sleeper in the Senate. He has to get a little crazy now to keep the GOP fringe on the reservation, but in his heart he is a mellow dude. If a Republican from Delaware has to go to the Senate, we could do worse than Castle. Look at it the way – at least he’s not nuts like so many in the GOP.
That’s good reasoning for fools and people who are ignorant of history.
In defense of Mike Castle, he showed us how to get rich:
http://www.debankers.com/DelawareBanker_Vol_5_No2.pdf
Someone needs to edit Mike Castle’s wikipedia page to mention the unfolding “trash and grab” controversy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Michael_Castle&action=edit&editintro=Template:BLP_editintro
I think a very even handed report laying out the facts would be damming.
Jack Markell on Cspan right now. The big question is: why hasnt Jack embraced SB 120, the Delaware Health Security act, or the act to reform Delawares Prison Industrial Complex. He admitted that Health Care, and the Prison system are eating away at the budget. So why hasn’t Jack embraced both common sense, peer reviewed acts that would have reduced the budget?
Fisker was funded by the 2007 Advanced Vehicles Technology Act, NOT stimulus funds. So this post about Castle being a liar, is 100% incorrect, or maybe even a bold faced LIE.
http://www.physorg.com/news175884098.html
“Funds will come from a conditional loan of 528.7 million dollars the Energy Department awarded the company in September. The loan is part of a 25-billion-dollar Advanced Technology Vehicle Manufacturing loan program set up by Congress in 2007.”
Nice try:
I would love to see Castle produce a video of himself at an event celebrating jobs created by the stimulus talking about how he voted against the stimulus. If Castle isn’t lying about that there should be multiple videos of him saying that, right?
Ronaldo is a poofer.
Even if you did accept Castle’s position as his candid expression of what he thinks, it boils down to: “I don’t give a shit if the economy goes to shit and we have 40% unemployment, because I’m against government spending to stimulate the economy unless I can take credit for jobs created by that spending which makes me a big old….”
You get the picture.
I believe missundaztood is correct about the source of the major Fisker loan. It comes from a program Castle actually voted for.
However, it is likely that the tax incentives provided by Delaware, which are responsible for Fisker choosing to spend its loan dollars in Delaware, would not be possible without ARRA funds.
Castle is telling us that he runs around bragging about voting against the stimulus. If this is true there should be documentation of this. Castle should produce some evidence.
It still doesn’t help Castle’s problem – he’s for funding for his district but against funding for other people’s districts.
“I’m for small government, but if I can get my stinking mitts on some booty, I’m for big government.”
UI, Here’s the delawareonline video medly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRtNyPRXHGw
In the first minute, Castle credits the 2007 Advanced Vechicles Technology Act for funding the half billion dollar loan. It’s in the video in this post, too.
The Biden “quote” you posted, notice how “stimulus” is in the reporter’s paraphrasing, not inside Biden’s actual quote, but Biden spoke spoke so long at this press conference that they could have assembled an entire car while he was up there so I wouldn’t rule out his making that gaffe.
The 25 billion dollar 2007 Advanced Vehicles Technology Act is providing the half a billion dollar loan for Fisker, Castle is correct, your post is not.
anon, the state gave tax breaks and other incentives to companies before the 2009 stimulus package existed, Astra Zeneca is an example, so you can’t make the leap that one wouldn’t exist without the other.
One more point, Castle voted in favor of the 2007 Energy Independence and Security Act, which contained the 2007 Advanced Vehicles Technology Act.
So Castle being at that press conference was the polar opposite of “hypocrisy.” He voted for that funding.
“I don’t give a shit if the economy goes to shit and we have 40% unemployment, because I’m against government spending to stimulate the economy unless I can take credit for jobs created by that spending which makes me a big old….”
He voted against the economic recovery and yet goes around the state taking credit for the projects that it funded. That is the bottom line. You can put lipstick on a pig and fuck that pig silly it if you want. That’s on you.
Jason, this is NOT ONE OF THOSE PROJECTS. This post is incorrect. Find other examples, THIS IS NOT ONE.
He is in this up to his neck. I can see why you are worried
Did Castle vote against the economic recovery? Yes.
Did he go around taking credit for the recovery projects? Yes.
At least you don’t deny that much. Nor can you deny that he claims that Delaware should get more of the stimulus money that he voted against. That is the very definition of hypocrisy.
He is in this up to his neck. I can see why you are worried.
The real question…the question Castle will not touch is, why did he really vote against the economic recovery in light of the fact that he has since found so much to like about it? The reason he still not be candid about that is because he voted in lock step with the GOP because they told him to vote that way.
Exactly Jason. Castle is lying if he’s saying he’s going around telling everyone how he was telling everyone that he voted against the stimulus at events where he’s taking credit for jobs created by it. Sorry, it was reported in the newspaper that the Fisker deal was funded by the 2007 law and the stimulus. Castle certainly didn’t talk about how he voted on the stimulus in the video. Plus, Castle really is trying to talk technicalities now – I’m for this funding but not others so I voted against this funding. So, really, Castle is asking us to take us at his word.
think’s post above is the exact logic that Castle hopes voters will do. I’m sorry but why should I think that Castle will suddenly start acting differently than he’s acted in the recent past – voting lockstep with Republican leadership. We’re supposed to believe that Castle is a nice guy who perhaps he’ll vote the right way this time.
It is really classic Castle. I voted against this HOWEVER… Castle has never voted for a bill that he liked or against a bill that he didn’t like. His wiggle room routine is older than Vaudeville.
In this case it matters, so people are paying attention and calling him out. The “HOWEVER” is followed by “I’m really looking out for Delaware” And yet, if he was really looking out for Delaware he would vote in ways that help delaware even when John Bohner tells him the shut up and toe the party line.
“The Fisker deal was funded with stimulus money, ”
Shouldn’t this be corrected in the original post? Your point may stand about the trash and grab, but that’s not what this was.
I think there is a dispute about how much the Fisker deal was funded by stimulus money.
Well…There is no dispute about the fact that Mike Castle claims to be against government funded economic stimulus projects while taking credit for them.
There appears to be little if any ARRA money in the Fisker deal. Castle did vote for the program that funded Fisker’s loan.
However – I think it is AWESOME that Castle has built such a reputation as a hypocrite, everyone assumes he voted against it anyway. Unfair on technical grounds, perhaps. But it looks like Castle’s karma has finally caught up with him. It’s about time.
Every time Castle has to deny he’s a hypocrite it really just reinforces it. The Democratic party is really hitting this theme hard right now. I don’t know why it took them so long but better late than never.
There is absolutely NO DISPUTE. Fisker’s half a billion dollar loan is not a stimulus loan. It’s a Department of Energy loan enabled by the 2007 Advanced Vehicle Technology Act.
This is from Fisker’s Wiki page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisker_Automotive#US_federal_loan
“Fisker has received a $528 million federal loan. Until now, these funds (from the federal $25 billion Advanced Technologies Vehicle Manufacturing Loan Program[13]) have gone mostly to the large automobile manufacturers and Tesla. The loan will principally fund Project NINA to design, engineer and assemble Fisker’s second-generation, $39,000 sedan, for sale starting in 2012 in volumes over 100,000/year. [14]
Of the total Fisker loan, $359 million is going to revive manufacturing at the Boxwood Plant in Delaware in support of Project NINA.
Fisker Automotive plans to use the remaining $169.3 million in ATVM loans for engineering work in Michigan and California to complete the company’s first vehicle, the Fisker Karma; to develop manufacturing processes for the Boxwood Plant; and to design the tools and equipment for manufacturing its plug-in hybrids.”
This is Markell’s press release, it credits the Department of Energy, NOT the Stimulus bill:
http://governor.delaware.gov/news/2009/10october/20091027-fiskerauto.shtml
This is from a green/tech website:
http://earth2tech.com/2009/09/22/fisker-scores-529m-doe-loan-to-start-project-nina/
“While the DOE announcement didn’t include the price of Project Nina, Fisker has repeatedly said that it plans to build a plug-in vehicle that’s cheaper and higher-volume than its $87,900 Fisker Karma, on the condition that it receives a DOE loan. Looks like the plan is on track. The DOE called the funding the fourth “conditional loan” (the company needs to meet some conditions before it becomes official) from the $25 billion Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing (ATVM) loan program.”
I agree that we may never know the truth about Mike Castle’s objection to the economic recovery, but we do know he is a lying douche bag when he tries to claim credit for the jobs created in Delaware.
Castle should take credit for future Fisker jobs, he voted for the 2007 Act that funded their $500 million dollar loan and worked to see that they got it.
We know the “truth” about Fisker, and Castle isn’t the one lying about it.
You’re all missing a big point: Even if what Castle says is true — he’s OK with spending as long as it wasn’t in the stimulus bill — he must be confronted with his selective criticism of government spending. Every time he shows up for one of these events, he must be asked, “Why is this spending OK but stimulus spending isn’t?”
He also must be repeatedly asked, “If you’re such a moderate, why do you vote in ways that strengthen not your ‘Main Street Partnership’ but the most conservative forces in your party?”
In short, the question, to be repeated as often as possible, is, “When have you ever shown evidence of having even one ball?”
“We know the “truth” about Fisker, and Castle isn’t the one lying about it.”
So what? Then he’s lying about being against government spending — in short, another hypocritical conservative. Wouldn’t it be nice if that were a rarity — a hypocritical conservative?
He is in a fix, and I think that his obvious hypocrisy is something that the voters will be able to grab ahold of. Every time he tries to struggle out of he sounds even more like a craven politician.
UI, that article with the Biden “quote” that you posted as your “proof” (9:03 am) that stimulus money was used, this is the FOURTH PARAGRAPH:
http://www.scsuntimes.com/news/business/x23525463/Company-selects-former-GM-factory-in-Delaware-to-produce-hybrid-electric-cars
“The Irvine, California company will buy the facility from Motors Liquidation for $18 million, and Fisker will spend another $175 million to refurbish and retool it, financed through a $529 million U.S. Department of Energy loan – part of the $25 billion Advanced Technology Vehicle Manufacturing program appropriated by Congress in 2007.”
Again, NO DISPUTE. This post is just wrong.
Here is some tmely proof that Castle’s hypocrisy is resonating; The DNC is using Castle for fundraising purposes.
https://my.democrats.org/page/contribute/dnc08gophypocrisy?source=20100217_GTK_Hyp_ND
This post is factually wrong. Deflection won’t change that.
This post should be corrected, it’s wrong. The “dispute” is settled.
I haven’t seen any proof that no stimulus money was used for the Fisker deal. The dispute is only settled in your mind.
Geezer’s right in that Republicans are saying that stimulus spending can’t create jobs. Castle is clearly trying to take credit for government spending that is creating jobs. That doesn’t change the fundamental hypocrisy of his position.
I would note two things about the article missundaztood linked– the entire article.
First, Castle’s only appearance in it is the gee-whiz, look-at-all-the-people quote early on. He is cited by nobody as instrumental, or even merely involved, anywhere else in the story. Is there any evidence that Castle played any part here? No vote was ever held on this; the Energy Dept. granted the money. I’m sure he was invited to stand there because the Delaware DC delegation always stands together (like Lennon-McCartney compositions). All he had to do was keep his trap shut and smile, and he did. Does that really entitle him to “take credit” by showing up. (OTOH, is just showing up an attempt to “take credit”?)
Second, this is government-spending, labor-friendly Democratic politics, yet also business-friendly — the consensus production that is the mark of DLC Democrats. Indeed, the story steers most of the attention to Markell, an exemplar of the breed. This is “moderate” Democrat behavior — just as, IIRC Castle’s press-release statements, the Main Street Republicans were intended to be the moderates in Congress. So why do his Main Streeters never intervene to help this group forward its goals? Is the Main Street thing just a sham?
“I haven’t seen any proof that no stimulus money was used for the Fisker deal.”
The burden is yours to prove that stimulus money was used, and so far your proof is a paraphrased line in an article, an article that SPECIFICALLY CITES the 2007 Advanced Vehicles Technology Act as the source of the funds and the video you posted which SPECIFICALLY CITES the 2007 Advanced Vehicles Technology Act as the source of the funds.
Meanwhile, I have cited Fisker’s Wiki page which also SPECIFICALLY CITES the 2007 Advanced Vehicles Technology Act as the source of the funds, several green/technology websites that SPECIFICALLY CITE the 2007 Advanced Vehicles Technology Act as the source of the funds, and the Governor’s press release which DOES NOT mention stimulus money (neither does the DEDO press release or Fiskers).
Not all government money is stimulus money. This post is wrong. It should be corrected.
According to some research that Cassandra did, Mike Castle did vote against funding for the program:
So, this means Castle is trying to take credit for jobs created by legislation he voted against.
totally pwned. missundaztood is also missinformed with missplazedloyalty.
QUESTION Will everyone in this state who voted for Obama vote against Castle???????????? I DOUBT IT
Is the Main Street thing just a sham? I think that is pretty obvious. These days, to find a moderate Republican you have to look in the Democratic caucus.
Right here in Recovery.gov it’s reported as part of ARRA tracking. Clearly some DOE loans came from the stimulus.
If you open the excel document it says this:
Entry B16 in the tab labelled “Major Activities”
First, that does not refute that Fisker did NOT receive stimulus money.
Second, it does not refute that Castle voted FOR the 2007 Advanced Vehicles Technology Act which provided the funding for Fisker.
Third, the funding you cite was not the regular received funding, it seems to be “emergency funding:”
(b) The amount provided by this section is designated as an emergency requirement and necessary to meet emergency needs pursuant to section 204(a) of S. Con. Res. 21 (110th Congress) and section 301(b)(2) of S. Con. Res. 70 (110th Congress), the concurrent resolutions on the budget for fiscal years 2008 and 2009.
So we’re talking about ADDITIONAL funding for a program.
My point stands, this post is incorrect.
Castle did vote for the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007
Castle did not vote for the Continuing Resolution language which provided funds to the program.
So…. he Castled.
Nice work Cass, I stopped at the 2007 vote so I got owned too.
UI this funding is coming from a specific Act from 2007. I’m sure EVERY department will get stimulus funds, but that doesn’t mean you’ll get away with crediting every project from every department as a stimulus project.
Do you see how far you have to STRETCH your point to make it even slightly smell like it’s valid?
ARRA does include the consumer plugin-electric vehicle tax incentive that Fisker is relying on.
Exactly anon. If Mike Castle had his way, the Fisker deal would not have happened.
Funding for the ATVM program does not come from the 2007 Act. There were no funds attached to that bill. There was the authorization of funding, meaning that it could go to the next step of appropriations.
Castle did vote against the budget bill that provided the first round of funds for the program.
This is what’s funding it right now, according to the DOE:
http://www.atvmloan.energy.gov/
“The FY 2009 Continuing Resolution (CR) enacted on September 30, 2008, appropriated $7.5 billion to support a maximum of $25 billion in loans under the ATVM. Also, the CR provides DOE $10 million to administer the program. The CR further requires DOE to issue an interim final rule within 60 days of the effective date of the CR to administer the loan program and establish eligibility requirements for both the grant and loan programs.”
Castle voted FOR that:
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll632.xml
What you posted was from 2007, that’s not current.
My point stands. Your post is incorrect.
I’m a Republican, this is a complex topic, all I gotta say is the government should be smaller so it can get out of the way with lower taxes and no deficit, but I like this Fisker thing here in Delaware. No questions please.
Actually your point gets worse if true — Castle votes NO for this Continuing Resolution to pass the House and then he votes YES to pass this same Language when it comes back to the House after the Senate passed it.
Flip Flop
It’s just another example of Castle taking credit for something he voted against. In this case it seems even more dishonest than normal because he’s claiming he voted for the funding, when he really did vote against it. Castle’s Castling moves didn’t start with the stimulus and this shows how vote against/take credit is a long-time Castle strategy.
Stimulus funds are being used by Fisker, so the post is correct.
UI are you serious? Where did you prove that stimulus money was being used for Fisker? NO WHERE.
Let’s recap:
Fisker’s Wiki page cited the 2007 Advanced Vehicles Technology Act for the funding. So does the DOE, and numerous, cited, green and tech sites.
So far, you’re proof that stimulus funds were used still comes down to a news article that you linked to with a reporters paraphrasing of Biden’s 45 minute long Fisker speech, that cites the 2007 Advanced Vehicles Technology Act as the source of the funding.
You’re post is wrong.
“It’s just another example of Castle taking credit for something he voted against. In this case it seems even more dishonest than normal because he’s claiming he voted for the funding, when he really did vote against it. Castle’s Castling moves didn’t start with the stimulus and this shows how vote against/take credit is a long-time Castle strategy.”
This is also, wrong. As I showed, Castle DID vote FOR the 2009 Continuing Resolution that funded the 2007 Advanced Vehicles Technology Act. That is the Resolution that was funding the Act through 2009, and continues to fund the Act today, which means that Castle clearly voted for funding the loan for Fisker.
That being said, when you bundle the funding for one Act in with the funding for numerous other Acts and legislation, it’s really stretching it to say that they are against something and didn’t fund it.
The bottom line is that Castle DID vote for the 2007 Advanced Vehicle Technology Act. THAT is the vote that counts. The fact that he ALSO voted FOR funding the act, has less meaning.
Your post is still wrong.
Would the deal have happened if not for ARRA?
ARRA funded the ATVM:
“Would the deal have happened if not for ARRA?”
Yes, since the 2007 Advanced Vehicle Technology Act provides for 25 billion dollars in funding, appropriated at 7.5 billion dollars a year, and Fisker was a half a billion dollar loan.
Also, let me point out again, that not ONE PRESS RELEASE associated with Fisker moving to Delaware, credits stimulus money. Not Fisker’s, not the Governor’s, not DEDO’s.
That’s “ADDITIONAL” funding, UI, not ALL OF THE FUNDING. The regular funding for the 2007 Act was already passed before the stimulus passed.
Saying that the “ARRA funded” the Act is wrong, the Act was already funded by Congress.
Don’t you think that if this was a stimulus project that Fisker, Markell, Carper and Kaufman would have been touting that fact at the Fisker announcement? Not ONE of them did.
Keep moving those goalposts, miz. Mike Castle said that he says he voted against the stimulus at events like these. There is no mention of that in the video. The stimulus is funding ATVM and is providing funds for Fisker.
UI you seem to be the one doing the goal moving act. The only funding source mentioned is the 2007 Advanced Vehicles Technology Act, that Act’s funding for fiscal year 2009 was passed in September 2008, and Castle voted for it.
If the stimulus funded Fisker, again, why no mention of that from Markell, Kaufman, Carper, and Fisker? Or the Department of Energy?
You have to speculate and stretch to make your post correct, that should tell you that it wasn’t worth posting to begin with.
Castle, in the video, specifically credits the 2007 AVTA, legislation he voted for and funded. Every other source credits the 2007 AVTA including Fisker. Only YOU are crediting the stimulus bill, but I’m sure you know more about Fisker’s funding than Fisker.
I’m sorry miz, but I’m entirely right. Stimulus funds were used for this deal and Mike Castle said nothing in his speech about opposing those funds. As far as who said what at the time, Joe Biden said that stimulus funds were used in his interview and the funds for the Fisker deal are in the recovery.org tracking tool. That’s not moving any goalposts. miz is the one that thinks the ARRA funding can be separated from the original funding.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/background-partnership-between-delaware-and-white-house-council-automotive-communit
“Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing (ATVM) Loans: The Department of Energy has announced the awarding of ATVM loans for four auto companies. Under this non-Recovery Act program, automobile, and automobile part manufacturers receive loan commitments for the cost of re-equipping, expanding, or establishing manufacturing facilities in the United States to produce advanced technology vehicles or qualified components, and for associated engineering integration costs. Recipients to date are:
• Ford: $5.9 Billion
• Nissan: $1.6 Billion
• Fisker: $528.7 Million
• Tesla: $465 Million”
“non Recovery Act program” Did you catch that part from the White House?
Don’t you think that if this was a stimulus project that Fisker, Markell, Carper and Kaufman would have been touting that fact at the Fisker announcement? Not ONE of them did.
Wrong! 6 minutes into this video Carper talks about the stimulus and credits it for the Fisker project:
Carper says:
From the White House:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/background-partnership-between-delaware-and-white-house-council-automotive-communit
“Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing (ATVM) Loans: The Department of Energy has announced the awarding of ATVM loans for four auto companies. Under this non-Recovery Act program, automobile, and automobile part manufacturers receive loan commitments for the cost of re-equipping, expanding, or establishing manufacturing facilities in the United States to produce advanced technology vehicles or qualified components, and for associated engineering integration costs. Recipients to date are:
• Ford: $5.9 Billion
• Nissan: $1.6 Billion
• Fisker: $528.7 Million
• Tesla: $465 Million”
Now, are you saying that Tom Carper is telling the truth, and the Obama Administration is lying? Because one of them is lying UI, which one is it, Obama or Carper?
So, in light of the fact that the White House specifically states that the $528.7 million dollar loan to Fisker is a “non-Recovery Act program” are you going to do the right thing and correct this incorrect post?
Are you going to admit that Fisker got monies from ARRA?
THE WHITE HOUSE CALLS THE 528.7 MILLION DOLLAR LOAN A “NON-RECOVERY ACT PROGRAM”. It’s time you admit that you’re are wrong, you in no way proved the loan was from ARRA and I have offered proof from Fisker to the White House that it is NOT ARRA funding.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/background-partnership-between-delaware-and-white-house-council-automotive-communit
“Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing (ATVM) Loans: The Department of Energy has announced the awarding of ATVM loans for four auto companies. Under this non-Recovery Act program, automobile, and automobile part manufacturers receive loan commitments for the cost of re-equipping, expanding, or establishing manufacturing facilities in the United States to produce advanced technology vehicles or qualified components, and for associated engineering integration costs. Recipients to date are:
• Ford: $5.9 Billion
• Nissan: $1.6 Billion
• Fisker: $528.7 Million
• Tesla: $465 Million”
Now, IS THE WHITE HOUSE LYING? No, they are NOT. The Fisker loan is a “NON-RECOVERY ACT PROGRAM”. You are wrong. Correct this post, it’s a LIE.
And still no acknowledgement that the only thing that matters to anyone — except Mz, of course — is that Castle is taking credit for spending he normally decries. That’s the takeaway, missundaztood, whether you like it or not. Nice to see a conservative’s head explode in slo-mo, though, I must say.
Geezer he voted for this funding. This post is wrong, it should be corrected.
Try reading my previous comments on this thread, Miss. Nobody cares about the details, and Mike Castle is not going to win this fight by splitting hairs about which spending is “stimulus,” and therefore bad, and which is garden-variety pork, and therefore good. He’s going to have to explain — strike that, if the Coons people have any brains Castle will have to explain — why some is good and some is bad.
Shorter missundastood:
“There is no controlling legal authority! It depends on what the definition of IS is! “
The funding for Fisker did not come from the stimulus, the White House clearly specifies this as does Fisker. The Act that the Fisker funding did come from was voted for by Castle and the legislation that funded the Act was voted for by Castle.
Therefore, Castle was not, in any way, shape or form, “hypocritical” for being at this event.
That makes this post entirely untrue, false, inaccurate, not valid, incorrect, wrong…(que Monty Python Dead Parrot Skit….)
It needs to be corrected. Period.
Geezer-show me where Castle said he’s against ALL government funding or give it up. Your point is ridiculous.
No, it’s not, Miss. Either he’s against “wasteful spending” or he’s not. Yours, frankly, is the point that’s ridiculous.
He did nothing to bring Fisker to town. Therefore, what was he doing at the event? As I noted earlier, it’s a courtesy that’s always extended to the other party in the Delaware DC delegation. Really, this is about government spending, period — I don’t hear your sort making any distinction about which is good and which bad, and I don’t hear Castle making it, either.
I’d suggest you correct it at your own web site.
WA Gov Christine Gregoire stopped inviting her states GOP credit grabbing hypocrit to the stimulus events. We need Markell to follow suit. Of course Carper would get oissed off if Castle wasn’t invvited so there is that to consider.
I guess this is the end of Castle’s “above the fray” campaign strategy.
Here’s the facts, from what we’ve gathered so far:
– the Fisker deal was mostly financed from the ATVM legislation, which Castle voted both for and against
– some money for the Fisker deal came from ARRA, specifically for the battery technology
– ARRA funds were also used for the ATVM program
– Carper definitely touted the role of the stimulus at the Fisker event
– Castle specifically stated in his WHYY interview “I certainly did not vote for it, and I’ve said that at every single appearance I’ve made.”
– In the video, Castle says nothing about not voting for the stimulus
And ARRA provides the consumer tax credits that make Fisker vehicles commercially viable in the first place.
“- the Fisker deal was mostly financed from the ATVM legislation, which Castle voted both for and against”
Wrong, Castle voted FOR the ATVM legislation every time it came up, I cited the votes.
“- some money for the Fisker deal came from ARRA, specifically for the battery technology”
Wrong, The White House specifically states, as I have posted THREE TIMES now that the “$528.7 million” was a “NON-RECOVERY ACT program”. “NON-RECOVERY ACT PROGRAM” Does someone need to draw you a picture or a graph to explain that simple, straight forward statement? “NON-RECOVERY ACT PROGRAM”.
“- Carper definitely touted the role of the stimulus at the Fisker event”
Is this the same Tom Carper that this site regularly points out is a total douche?
“- Castle specifically stated in his WHYY interview “I certainly did not vote for it, and I’ve said that at every single appearance I’ve made.”
Finding a TRUE example of his hypocrisy, if it’s as widespread as you continually assert, should be easy, FISKER IS NOT AN EXAMPLE OF STIMULUS SPENDING according to the WHITE HOUSE AND FISKER. The Fisker loan is a “NON-RECOVERY ACT PROGRAM.”
“- In the video, Castle says nothing about not voting for the stimulus”
That’s because THE WHITE HOUSE AND FISKER clearly state that THE FISKER LOAN IS A “NON-RECOVERY ACT PROGRAM.”
Your post is wrong, if your post is correct, than the White House is LYING about Fisker funding.
So, are you right UI and the White House is LYING?
anon, we’ve been over this, Delaware has doled out massive tax credits to companies for decades before ARRA existed. But aside from that, the presser in question was touting the $528.7 “NON-RECOVERY ACT PROGRAM” loan.
The Fisker loan, according to The White House and Fisker, was a “NON-RECOVERY ACT PROGRAM.”
Keep arguing. I enjoy watching people sink in quicksand.
All the electorate will know is that Mr. Cheappockets was willing to piss away a half-billion dollars.
“No, it’s not, Miss. Either he’s against “wasteful spending” or he’s not.”
Is Fisker “wasteful spending”? Obviously, since Castle voted for the legislation that created the program, he doesn’t think it is.
And Geezer, did you see the White House quote? Does it say that the $528.7 million dollar loan is a “NON RECOVERY ACT PROGRAM”? Doesn’t that mean that the Fisker loan isn’t part of the Recovery Act? Yes, it does. Except for here, where everyone seems to think the White House is lying about Fisker’s loan.
Find another example of Castle’s hypocrisy, this is not one.
“Obviously, since Castle voted for the legislation that created the program, he doesn’t think it is.”
Very good. Next step, now: Do Republicans in every other state consider it wasteful spending? What standard is applied to determine whether spending is “wasteful,” other than “I like (or dislike) it”?
Geezer the topic is Castle, not every republican on the face of the Earth. I know the only way you can prove you’re correct is by using other republicans, but sorry, this is about Castle, and on that point you, and UI are wrong.
The fact is that it was not stimulus money so you have to find another reason to bash Mr. Castle, which I am sure that you will even if you need to make another one up.
And the fact, you have no freaking clue what you are talking about — as always.
The initial point of this post was the lie that Castle told to the WHYY host, when he told that person he doesn’t go to a single event where he does not criticize the stimulus. There is a video up there that makes it clear that is not true.
Then we get to the voted for the program, voted against funding the program, then changing his mind to vote for funding later. Definitely the sign of a man who making votes for political reasons or who doesn’t know his own mind.
And it is clear every which way from Sunday in UIs list that ARRA funds are part of what makes the Fisker deal work — battery research and manufacture for their battery supplier, tax credits to support the purchase of the cars when made, and the addition of administrative funds to the ATVM program so that they could get these loans and grants out fast.
So what we are left with is Miz pretending that repeating the same BS over and over again will sooner or later make this BS into fact.
So unless you have something new — and something factual — I think we can safely stick a fork in ya Miz — you’re done.
“The initial point of this post was the lie that Castle told to the WHYY host, when he told that person he doesn’t go to a single event where he does not criticize the stimulus.”
In context, he’s speaking about stimulus funded events. Fisker was NOT A STIMULUS FUNDED EVENT, UNLESS THE WHITE HOUSE IS LYING.
“Then we get to the voted for the program, voted against funding the program, then changing his mind to vote for funding later.”
Show me where he voted against an appropriations bill SPECIFICALLY to vote against the ATVM funding. Appropriations bills contains hundreds of programs. But the bottom line is he voted for the FY 2009 funding, which is what is funding Fisker and the ATVM program today.
“And it is clear every which way from Sunday in UIs list that ARRA funds are part of what makes the Fisker deal work — battery research and manufacture for their battery supplier, tax credits to support the purchase of the cars when made, and the addition of administrative funds to the ATVM program so that they could get these loans and grants out fast.”
First, the ATVM program was ALREADY FUNDED. Second, the White House SPECIFICALLY STATES the Fisker loan was a “NON-RECOVERY ACT PROGRAM.” But keep calling the White House liars, I’m enjoying it.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/background-partnership-between-delaware-and-white-house-council-automotive-communit
“Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing (ATVM) Loans: The Department of Energy has announced the awarding of ATVM loans for four auto companies. Under this non-Recovery Act program, automobile, and automobile part manufacturers receive loan commitments for the cost of re-equipping, expanding, or establishing manufacturing facilities in the United States to produce advanced technology vehicles or qualified components, and for associated engineering integration costs. Recipients to date are:
• Ford: $5.9 Billion
• Nissan: $1.6 Billion
• Fisker: $528.7 Million
• Tesla: $465 Million”
Once again, DO YOU SEE WHERE THE WHITE HOUSE CALLS IT A “NON-RECOVERY ACT PROGRAM” AND THEY LIST THE ENTIRE $528.7 MILLION LOAN TO FISKER AS A NON-RECOVERY ACT LOAN? That web page specifies where ARRA funds were used, and it specifically states that the Fisker loan is NOT ARRA funded. Do you not understand what “NON RECOVERY ACT PROGRAM” means?
The “BS” that you accuse me of is from the White House’s own web page on Fisker. Therefore, the only BS here is what you and UI are spewing.
One more point, UI
“As far as who said what at the time, Joe Biden said that stimulus funds were used in his interview and the funds for the Fisker deal are in the recovery.org tracking tool.”
The Fisker loan is NOT at recovery.org. It’s not listed at recovery.gov, either.
See link at 2:59 pm.
Yes, I read that, it calls it a DOE loan, not an “ARRA loan”. The spread sheet is from the Department of Labor, not DOE, where the Fisker loan came from. The White House web page that I’ve posted SEVERAL times explains who “Dr. Montgomery” is and why he was there, it’s DOL related. Sorry, but you’re wrong again. And incidentally, that link is NOT a link that outlines ARRA spending, it’s also the ONLY reference to Fisker at recovery.gov.
If the $528.7 million dollar loan was ARRA funded, it would be listed. It’s not. It’s not listed at recovery.org, at recovery.gov, or on Delaware’s recovery website. But I’m sure you already know that, you just keep trying to stretch your point.
So you’re still wrong. The $528.7 million dollar loan was a “NON-RECOVERY ACT PROGRAM.” You have failed to prove otherwise. Your post is incorrect, time for you to give up and admit it.
(Please re-post this as a community service)
Less than 20 car companies (The ATVM people say there were tons of applications but only a handful were car companies) applied for $25 BILLION DOLLARS in taxpayer money managed by a certain smug group of people at DOE in order to get loans to make green cars for Americans. This was not all of DOE that did bad things, just a private cadre of men led by Lachland Seward and Matt Rogers and his McKinsey “Partner” who flew back and forth to their homes in Silicon Valley every weekend on the taxpayer dime.
There was enough money to help every single one of the car companies that applied. The administrators applied their interpretations of the law in order to benefit the large lobby group-related firms and avoided every one of the “politically unconnected “independent American companies.
The amount of lobby and influence money spent by each awardee is in direct ratio to the amount of money awarded. Pay-to-play was the process.
The smaller companies, due to lower overhead, could have dramatically more productive results with the money than the large burdened companies yet the money was given out based on political career advantages for the administrators rather than the technology advantages for Americans.
The way the ATVM people set it up (Google “Siry says stifles innovation” for more), the smaller applicants were prevented from getting outside investor funding.
All of the people that reviewed the applications had political and financial connections to GM, Ford, Chrysler and the large Detroit recipients.
Each of those smaller American companies had technology and resources that presented a powerful economic threat, if they got the loans, to the large politically connected companies that did receive funds. The big car companies wanted the small companies cut-out at all costs.
The Section 136 law was written to provide first-come-first serve funding but when the small companies got their applications in first, while the big ones arrogantly felt that they did not even need to apply because it was already pre-staged for them, the ATVM officials changed the rules in order to remove the first-come-first-serve standard of the law in order to cut out the smaller independents.
Some of the companies that have gotten money have backed out of making the electric cars they said they would make. But they still get to keep the money.
The Section 136 Law was created by the lobbyists for GM, Ford & Chrysler when they saw that they were about to go bankrupt and wanted to tap into additional taxpayer dollars by claiming the money was going to be used for electric cars in order to win rapid support for Section 136 by tugging at heartstrings. In retrospect, the money mostly went to gasoline car projects. Multiple public hearings have already shown the sister loan guarantee program to have been a failed program via intentional delays, the head was fired and replaced & massive complaints have been filed by many.
Some of the companies that got the money have already wasted more money than other companies applied for as their total request.
Some of the companies that got taxpayer loan money are not even American companies and/or are doing their manufacturing offshore with non-American employees. Thus, the ATVM process has cost American’s jobs.
Those who got the money had to fill out little, or no, paperwork, went through little, or no, review and were connected to the DOE people who gave them the money and shepherded them through the process. Those who they wanted to keep out were forced to jump through more hoops, were slow-tracked in review and had made no political deals via hired law and lobby firms that the big companies has used to conduit “influence”.
The decision about who would get money was made in 2008 by a private group who then pretended there was a lengthy review throughout 2009 but in fact, the money was pre-wired for a select few.
All of the things that the rejected small companies (who did not pay lobby fees) were rejected for, were the same things that the insider big companies were doing. In at least two cases, big companies who were in violation of Section 136 rules were guided by reviewer-insiders to change their whole business structure in order to become suddenly “compliant “with section 136 while smaller companies received no such “help”.
How does this affect you? It cost you and your friends jobs, it delayed American innovation, it made your family have to breath toxic petroleum fumes for another decade, it furthered a corrupt practice and it hurt domestic small business. This was all about money. Controlling who got to make money off of the technology and who got to delay electric cars so the old oil and steel guys could still make money off of their old assets.
The companies staff that felt that Matt Rogers, Lachland Seward and the ATVM people lied to them include: Aptera Motors, Bannon, BioTrike, Brammo, Bright Auto, VVC, Eco Motors, Electric Motors, ElectroRides, Electrovaya, ETS, EV Innovations, Futuris, Limnia, Magna, Pheonix, Revolution, Smart Earth, Vextrix, Wrightspeed, XP, Zap and a group of others currently seeking a class action law firm.