A complete moron wants me to be scared
…I decline.
Here is the BBC report:
A car which was on fire has been driven at the main terminal building at Glasgow Airport.
Eyewitnesses have described a Jeep Cherokee being driven at speed towards the building with flames coming out from underneath.They have also described seeing two Asian men, one of whom was on fire, who had been in the car.
Oh my. I guess I am supposed to be shitting myself because these retards are going to set up a “caliphate” that stretches from Asbury Park, NJ to Guam. Somehow I can’t work up that much terror. Sorry wingnuts!
I’m more worried about the fact that we have an imbecile in the White House – and I have to say, I spend a decent amount of time wondering why you are not worried about that as well.
Muslims need to be held accountable. No more free rides. Do you agree? It is not a peaceful religion.
It might be comforting to think that it is “muslims” but it is not muslims – it is a bunch of criminals.
Yes – criminals shoudl be held accoutable.
BTW – You say Islam is not a peacful religion – do you mean to suggest that Christianity is..? Please.
Our good Christian President created a whole lot of terror over in Iraq for no other reason than to satisfy his vanity. He should be held accoutnable as well.
I think I picked this fight. I am glad that we are having it, actually.
I would like a Muslim to tell me that Islam is not a peaceful religion. I am sorry, but no Muslim will say that they are members of a violent religion, just like Christians will not say that they are.
Please let us remember that the Olympic bomber in Atlanta was a self-professed Christian. Don’t, for one moment, think that Muslims have a corner on the “crazy-ass terrorist” market. There have been Christian terrorists before and there will be more again. Same is true of Muslims.
Hate the sin, not the sinner. Indeed.
I would like a Muslim to tell me that Islam is not a peaceful religion. I am sorry, but no Muslim will say that they are members of a violent religion, just like Christians will not say that they are.
Christians are not cutting peoples heads off on a daily basis, blowing up uhhhh…everything!, or teaching women and children how to become suicide/homicide bombers. Stop giving Muslims a break. I for one am not differentiating amongst Nazis, there weren’t some good Nazis, or okay Nazis, or a group of really bad Nazis. They were grouped and hunted down decades later for there involvement at anytime.
If we start applying our disgust across the board, then Muslims who do NOT want to be associated with this inhumane behavior, will turn to those participants and condemn their behavior.
Name me five top Islamic leaders both religious and governmental (other than Musharraf), who are leading the fight against Jihaddist? You can’t.
OK, just so we are all clear on this:
You just suggested that Muslims need to be hunted down and held accountable for their religion. ummm, no.
What is your view on the crusades? Did we not kill women and children? And our Christian President blows things up every day. Falwell made statements about how 9/11 was payback for homosexuals, etc.
Are you dumb or have you never really looked in a mirror?
Remember: It’s just a catch phrase!
You guys are unreal, man.
Hube, do you support the hunting down of Muslims because the are part of a religion of violence?
Oh, and it’s a bumper sticker.
Lose Credibility Now!
Ask Me How.
(seen on a Presidential motorcade)
Yeah, sure, Geek. That makes about as much “sense” as your bringing up the Crusades to make a comparison to TODAY’S radical Muslims.
Maybe you ought to name this blog “Delaware Ostrich.”
Let’s be honest here… radical anything is bad. In this case, radical Islam is bad. Simply following the word of Muhammad and praising Allah does not make you a terrorist. I will concede that most of the militants we’re dealing with are Muslims, but I will also say that a very small part of the Muslim population actually behaves that way. Geek is right to say the Christians hardly have a clean slate (though in recent times, they have been pretty timid), but J/Hube are right to say that the vast majority of (if not all of) the “terrorists” are Muslims. The fact is, though, that the beheadings are from a minority of the Muslim population that speaks the loudest… persecution isn’t a solution here. Perhaps we should explore exactly why we are the subject of such disdain.
My comparison is that all religions are subject to periods of history that are aggressive. I suspect that it is part and parcel of religious fervor (no matter the flavor) and to say that Islam is a religion of violence and Christianity is a religion of love is to deny that plenty of people do terrible things in the name of their religion of love.
To lump all Muslims together makes as much sense as saying that all Christians are loving individuals that never harmed anyone.
Can you see my point?
OK, just so we are all clear on this:
You just suggested that Muslims need to be hunted down and held accountable for their religion. ummm, no.
What is your view on the crusades? Did we not kill women and children? And our Christian President blows things up every day. Falwell made statements about how 9/11 was payback for homosexuals, etc.
Are you dumb or have you never really looked in a mirror?:
I would have thought you understood I was asking for Muslims to rid their own religion of these radicals. I never said I wanted to hunt down Muslims (You’d have to be dumb to think I said that).
I made my point, you can just believe it’s a bumper sticker slogan. Good luck with that.
“Perhaps we should explore exactly why we are the subject of such disdain.”
Nothing to explore. The radicals despise and wish expunged from the earth ANYONE not associated with their particular brand of Islam. Not thing one we can do to change their attitude….short of offing ourselves to save them the trouble.
I think you are right, Chris (mark this day on the calendar).
The question is not how we coax back the ones that have already crossed over to hating us for not being them, but how do we keep the rest of the world from turning into them. They are winning the battle for hearts and minds today and they have been since we went into Iraq.
Any suggestions on how to reverse that? If not, we are in for a long, uphill and existential fight.
“They are winning the battle for hearts and minds today and they have been since we went into Iraq.”
This is where you start disagreeing with me again. I think that has happened in some cases. But the more the terrorists blow up other Muslims to make their point, the less likely they are to win those hearts and minds. I am a deep believer that ultimately, deep down, everyone wants freedom and prosperity. I still think if we have focus our efforts on getting Iraq into a stable democracy and limit the Iranian influence, ultimately that, if not the USA directly, will win their hearts and minds.
We need to stay the course. We will end up being that parent that every teen hates, until they are mature enough (in this case, mature enough in democracy) to see we really were doing the right thing. Some will not mature enough to see that and will always hate us. But ultimately, the majority will concede the point….if we are successful.
“We need to stay the course.”
Ladies and Gentlemen – I rest my case.
I think that is the essence of authoritarianism, the parent/child comparison. Way to go, Chris.
You are right, this is exactly the place where we diverge. Does your strategy work when you parents do it to you at your advanced age? What if they tell you how to raise your kids?
We will end up being that parent that every teen hates, until they are mature enough
Oh yeah, The White Man’s Burden.
“Does your strategy work when you parents do it to you at your advanced age? What if they tell you how to raise your kids?”
It does if it is an area new to me and one they have great experience in. Raising kids is not exactly the best analogy. When purchasing a new home, I listened quite a bit to my dad. Why? Because he has bought and sold houses successfully, and is a realtor to boot. It seems like a simple concept to buy a house, but in reality, there are quite a lot of challenges and pitfalls. Why not accept the mentoring advice and guidance through the process. If I resisted the advice, I would be a fool.
It has been noted numerous times on this board that democracy, freedom, and in some cases market economies, are new concepts to residents of the middle east. Democracy was new to most regions at one time or the other (even Ancient Greece). It often faced violent opposition. Sometimes it was forced upon folks (yes, I see the irony), and other times it was mentored in. But I am hard pressed to think of any country that regretted Democracy once they truly acieved it. If you have great examples, I will welcome being educated on it.
The hope of Democracy in Iraq was not even possible without the removal of Saddam. The birth pangs of Democracy have been great. Especially with the outside influences of Iran and AQ lighting the fuses. But once those influences can be eradicated, and, sorry to say, the most radical nutjobs take each other out, the desired for freedom and democracy CAN win out. There will always be set backs, but the only solutions for peace in the middle east are democracy or absolute trynanny under one powerful, ruthless dictator. I should hope you would prefer the former option.
the only solutions for peace in the middle east are democracy or absolute trynanny under one powerful, ruthless dictator. I should hope you would prefer the former option.
I do, but we got Bush instead.
Today’s christians can be a terrorist too!
http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070630/NEWS/70630003/1001
Though if you say you’re doing it for Jeebus then you’ll only get a charge of arson.
Now, a practicing, pacifist Muslim will see this and scream “Hypocrisy”, and they will be right.
Religion and peace will coincide only when those unprovable supernatural beliefs are kept to oneself.
“If I resisted the advice, I would be a fool.”
The key bit here is that your father did not hold a gun to your head to try to make you listen to his advice.
Democracy in Iraq was not why these fools went off on this adventure — WMD was. Even Paul Wolfowitz has been reported as acknowledging that the Democracy business was a storyline that they settled on as the easiest selling rationale.
And democracy is largely a talking point for BushCo — they do not do much with the Saudis who do have a dictator or with the Egyptians (who have a nominal democracy that is taking on some of the habits of totalitarianism much like Russia). What is interesting about the lack of focus on Saudi Arabia and Egypt is that the majority of the 9/11 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia and both countries continue to be Ground Zero for the intellectual energy that continues to animate the apocalyptic jihadists.
Countries should have the governments that they choose. And they should do the heavy lifting to make those governments work. And they should not count on others to do the fighting and dying while they work out vacation schedules.
“Today’s christians can be a terrorist too!”
But the difference is nearly all Christians will condemn this scumbag for what he did, where as many muslims are quiet on the terrorist subject. Not all, I relize. Some key Muslim groups “condemned” 9/11. But then were pretty much silent after that.
“Democracy in Iraq was not why these fools went off on this adventure — WMD was. Even Paul Wolfowitz has been reported as acknowledging that the Democracy business was a storyline that they settled on as the easiest selling rationale.”
Never said we didn’t have self-interest at heart. It is in our best interest to get that region under control and to make sure weapons that could have been employed by terrorists were eliminated. (NOTE: Insert here your standard “THERE NEVER WERE ANY WMD’s ARGUEMENT”)
Your points on Saudi Arabia and Egypt are well founded. We should be doing more with resepect to those. They are showing us, at least nominally, cooperation with hunting down terrorist. Again I emphasize NOMINALLY. I have no illusions that Saudi and Egyptian governments don’t support terrorists. I think they do…and quite a bit. But because they are publically “cooperating” it puts us in a difficult political situation. Iraq on the other hand, really was not cooperating, and we had very little intel there (unlike in Saudi and Egypt). Iraq is also, as I previously noted, strategically placed in the heart of things, and right next door to the true monster, Iran. An ideal spot to inject Democracy.
“Countries should have the governments that they choose.”
EXACTLY! But unless they have Democracy, they really didn’t choose it. Which is precisely the point here.
In public, most likely yes. In private, to the evangelical set, they’d rather call a domectic terrorist a martyr. Just like the others who killed abortion providers.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm
Chris, your muslim point is extreme. Most muslims and their governments were very sympathetic to us after 9/11, but that opportunity to use their goodwill in order to “smoke-out” the terrorists was squandered. And as we know, the GOP-lead executive and congress gave a billion reasonable people a reason to instead sympathize with the extreme, minor faction.
And as a caveat, I have family members (through marriage) who currently live, or have lived, in Iran. The vast majority of the common folk looks up to the US, but they are ruled by religious extremists and the power-hungry – remember, they control the guns, military, and courts. The people want pro-democracy support, but not through bombs.
“But unless they have Democracy, they really didn’t choose it.”
Which conflicts with your statement about ‘forcing’ democracy. And ‘forcing’ democracy on people who have unfinished business with one another was spectacularly crazy. And in the meantime, we’re are spending American lives and dollars on a dream that only Americans have.
No one here is going to argue that democracy is bad for people. Spending American treasure to force that on others is what is misguided.
“Spending American treasure to force that on others is what is misguided.”
Seems to me the debate is whether we are “forcing it” or breaking down the roadblocks to it.
Actually, when radicalized people get democracy, they seem to select people that we don’t like as their leaders (Hamas). Good strategy, let’s radicalize the whole region…
Chris, the roadblocks have been long gone. Saddam Hussein and his government have not been in power for many year.
If there is any roadblock it is the Iraqis who do not step up and work at the governing and building that needs to happen.
If that is not the case, then you would be admitting that this thing is indeed lost. Because the only thing that insurgents need to do is to hang on long enough to make an area ungovernable. cf., the IRA or George Washington’s Army