Bitter? I can think of a few other words
I really wish the Clinton campaign would make up its mind. Are words meaningless? Is talk “cheap”? Or are words taken completely out of context the only ones that matter? I’m leaning towards the latter. Obama’s use of the word “bitter” has stirred up a lot of controversy. Why? In my opinion, he hit the nail on the head. People who feel that they have no economic recourse in politics vote on social issues. Kinda explains Ohio in 2004: Hey, Honey, we don’t have a job, but at least we stopped Gay Marriage!
In an age of sound bites are we really able to listen for longer than thirty seconds?
Tags: 2008 Presidential
This BS is Clinton’s whole campaign at this point.
Listen to every word Obama utters, sift every glance and gesture through some kind of crazy GOP filter and maybe she can scare enough fraidy-cat DLC dems away from Obama to change the outcome.
It is sad. I once thought that it would not be horrible if she got the nomination.
BTW – Welcome Pandora!
I don’t think the word bitter is a big deal at all. What is a big deal is saying that people hunt and go to church because the factory left and they lost their jobs.
Disrespecting traditions loses votes in the general.
In an age of sound bites are we really able to listen for longer than thirty seconds?
I think FSP just answered my question.
This isn’t some contrived controversy. Hell, it started at Huffington Post. He wasn’t misquoted and it wasn’t taken out of context.
saying that people hunt and go to church because the factory left and they lost their jobs.
Which is, of course, NOT what he said.
In many ways his inartfully worded critique is a decent summary of the Thomas Frank book, What’s the Matter with Kansas? Lots of people put at financial risk by government and corporate policies promised lots of changes and improvements by governments and corporations that don’t deliver get persuaded by the local bambozzelers that they now need to defend the rest of their lives from the government and corporations when the rest of those lives are certainly not at risk. Allowing, of course, the bamboozelers to continue to abandon the working class in favor of their wealthy friends.
Hillary is now running her Molehill Campaign now and it never ceases to amaze me that the media just goes along with more of this crap.
BTW — welcome Pandora!
It seems that the trick is really to parse all speeches into 30 second sound bites. The trick is that all ideas must be perfectly formed for any given 30 seconds, so you cannot have any modifiers, qualifiers, or complexities that require more than 30 seconds to explain.
This is the beauty of the Bush administration, they can sum up their policies in a few words:
“So?”
“Bring ’em on!”
“He tried to kill my Father”
I could go on, but it’s hard to type through the tears.
Oh, and I’ll get all “donviti” on you and congratulate you on busting your DelawareLiberal posting cherry.
And, by the way, Al said on his show this morning that the average sound bite is now 8 seconds.
Surely, surely! by now y’all understand: words matter when they help you, and don’t when they hurt you. It doesn’t matter to what party you belong, whether you are liberal or conservative, if you are a politician only one thing matters: winning elections. If your opponent says something dumb, or even something that can be construed as being dumb — and even Mr Obama said that he ought to have expressed himself better — a smart politician is going to use it.
“He wasn’t misquoted and it wasn’t taken out of context.”
He certainly was taken out of context. He was answering a question on how he was going to get through to the kind of voters his quotes are about. How often do you hear that part?
On the sound bite length, this matters. Once upon a time the whole quote would be repeated; at this point, all that gets through is that he criticized (which he didn’t) people with guns and religion.
Dave, quite pretending you’re anything but a GOP agitator on this. You have no interest in discussing what he really said, and every interest in making sure the manufactured meme is all that stays in play.
And you have no interest in anything that makes Obama looks bad, even when he does it to himself.
Huffington Post, Al. The Huffington-freakin’-Post. That’s who broke the story.
I’ve read all of the available quotes before and after what he said, and he meant what he said. Not only that, it revealed his true opinion, shared by people like you, about small-town America. In fact, he probably promulgated that which he meant to avoid – small-town, rural, lower-income voters voting Republican.
Yeah, but the point is Dave they vote Republican because they have no hope of change, THANKS TO THE REPUBLICANS. How do you break through that vicious cycle? Obama was trying to explain how he sees this phenomenon happening, not talking down to people, but trying to understand what motivated them to vote against their own self interest. It was more of an “I understand why you are doing this” than a “gosh you are stupid” thing. The Republicans would never bother with this sort of dialogue because they just say, “well they are stupid and we can manipulate them with Guns, God and Gays. Now let’s get on with turning the country over to the corporations and the rich people.”
Spin, spin spin. Please read or listen to Obama’s entire speech (which is exactly what he said at the fundraiser and is available – in its entirety on HuffPost). I understand dealing with the tough issues – race, poverty, frustration – with truth might be hard for Hillary and McCain supporters, but we cannot have a serious discussion about these issues until we stop the spin.
Americans are obviously bitter, just look at Bush’s poll numbers. Not exactly optomistic, are they? I’ll wait with bated breath for you to spin that.
No politician, not even Obama, would be able to come out and say it’s class warfare and you guys are being propagandized into poverty, but that is what is happening.
I think that Edwards was trying to make that very same point, Rebecca. In many ways, Obama’s comments are in tune with his pitch to get past the Karl Rove-style wedge issues politics and really address those things that government can (which isn’t everything) that contributes the middle class and working class anxieties.
But no one is surprised, really, that Dave is here standing up for Karl Rove’s wedge issues, right?
No, Rebecca, they vote Republican because they’re convinced that Republicans share their culture and values and elitist Democrats don’t.
Obama reinforced that.
key word convinced. Then one by one, we find out they cheat on their dying wives
have wide stances
dodged the draft
etc etc
Besides which, I don’t think that Republicans with a new standard bearer with 8 houses that his wife paid for gets to throw any elitist stones.
No one accused Jim Webb of being elitist when he called out the real elitists in this debate :
Working Americans have been repeatedly seduced at the polls by emotional issues such as the predictable mantra of “God, guns, gays, abortion and the flag” while their way of life shifted ineluctably beneath their feet.
And certainly these BushCo era repubs have done not one thing to stop the shifting.
8 houses that his wife paid for
Good point C.; I am not above plagiarizing the 2004 Republican talking points about Kerry’s wife.
This is really humorous. It doesn’t matter how you parse it, the fact that you have to parse it at all to make it not look bad — and even Mr Obama admitted that he didn’t put it very well — means that you’ve already blown it.
It’s like having to explain a joke; if you have to explain it, it isn’t funny.
Tell it to McCain — Mr. “I Don’t Mind If We Stay In Iraq for 100 Years”.
Bet you’re not laughing now!
It’s like having to explain a joke; if you have to explain it, it isn’t funny.
kind of like yourself dana
“Besides which, I don’t think that Republicans with a new standard bearer with 8 houses that his wife paid for gets to throw any elitist stones.”
Hey, if you marry rich, you don’t need to earmark federal tax dollars so your wife can get a raise.
The hope of audacity, indeed.
Should we all judge McCain by the sound bite of his calling his wife the “c” word?
The audacity of McCain, indeed.
Hey, don’t take my word for it.
Ask Pennsylvania what they think about Obama’s comments.
Mr. McKeating certainly has quite the history of governing on behalf of his lobbyist buddies. Even his campaign could be called No Lobbyist Left Behind. But I’m sure you know about that.
The Audacity of Hypocrisy, is what they’re calling it, I believe.
don’t worry dave, we don’t take any of your words for anything.
good to see you support HRC though and stand behind her
Ignore the poll. I see.
I don’t support HRC. Actually, I guess I do support her so long as she’s taking a wrecking ball to the Democratic Party.
Cassandra – I don’t think McCain ever earmarked his wife’s salary.
Neither did Obama. But he doesn’t have the same lobbyist entourage to feed, either.
“Neither did Obama.”
Spoken like a true sycophant. Or should I say evidence ignored like a true sycophant.
You know, when I heard this bit I was reminded of all the crap John McCain took when he told all those folks in Michigan their auto industry jobs weren’t coming back, and that they’d better get used to the idea.
Well, Mr. Dave Lobbyist, I will defer to your knowledge of sycophancy, as that is an essential skill of lobbyists everywhere.
Or maybe I shouldn’t. Have you even made the Low-A team yet? Not to worry, homeslice, you have plenty of time to get up on your game before the No Lobbyist Left Behind recruiters get here.
It appears that no matter what he said the Repuk spin machine will take that line about guns church and being down on illegals and thurn it into That small town Americans are nothing but a bunch of Gun Toting Religious Bigots. And therein lies the danger
It appears that no matter what he said the Repuk spin machine will take that line about guns church and being down on illegals and turn it into That small town Americans are nothing but a bunch of Gun Toting Religious Bigots. And therein lies the danger
”
Well, Mr. Dave Lobbyist, I will defer to your knowledge of sycophancy, as that is an essential skill of lobbyists everywhere.”
Well, Cassandra, being that I’m a lobbyist for a non-profit, it doesn’t exactly meant the same thing, does it?
“Or maybe I shouldn’t. Have you even made the Low-A team yet? Not to worry, homeslice, you have plenty of time to get up on your game before the No Lobbyist Left Behind recruiters get here.”
I need a translator to tell me what you just said, but suffice it to say that if John McCain’s going to hire anyone in Delaware, it’s not going to be the guy who ran his opponent’s primary campaign.
I’ll leave the abc’s to you.
Tomorrow night Matthews will have the Senile Old man McCain on for one hour on hardball. Then the real test will begin Does Christ Matthews have the balls to ask Senator McCain to explain why he called his wife a cunt in public. I am betting that Mathews doesn’t have the balls to ask this question so i am hoping that at least one of the students does.
Any takers if tomorrow will be Hardball or Softball I am betting on Softball
The culture is what we pass down to our children. It is what makes life worth living. To reduce politics and indeed life down to the material is why Democrats have lost Red state
America. Even in a down economy and in an unpopular war, Democrats are seen as doing more harm than good.
If Democrats want a long term majority, they have to return to traditional values.
If Democrats want a long term majority, they have to return to traditional values.
You are what Kos calls a “concern troll” – pretending to be concerned about the future of Democrats.
News flash – Democrats ARE returning to traditional values, which are not owned or defined by Republicans.
yes the culture is what we pass down david. you are so right. A culture of liberty, not fear. A culture that we all are equal. That we don’t bomb people because we think they may bomb us first with no intel to back it up. A culture that includes not excludes. A culture that looks to promote everyones overall welfare and not just a few…
and what exactly are traditional values anyway?
what exactly does that have to do with running a government?
I think George W. Bush is proof of what happens when you frame your entire party’s platform as a conflict between “elites” and “regular folk”. You get a brain-dead moron giving lots of jobs to people who are just as qualified as “regular folk” to do them, and do as well as the average person would do in them (or much worse). Meritocracy only matters to the GOP when there are Angry White People who feel threatened by the idea of having a black or female boss. As usual, the Republican party is trying to pass off mediocrity as a virtue, because that makes everyone feel virtuous.
By the way, notice how Dave, true-to-form, picks the least reputable polling firm to link to, rather than an “elite” one that actually gets the numbers right. At least he’s consistent in his brain-bashing.
‘Meritocracy only matters to the GOP when there are Angry White People who feel threatened by the idea of having a black or female boss.”
The Republican party is responsible for appointing African Americans to the highest held positions in government. Ever hear of Colin Powell and Condeleeza Rice? Both were National Security Advisors and Secretaries of State!
Not to mention numerous Cabinet appointments and the Supreme Court too.
Try again.
“Meritocracy only matters to the GOP when there are Angry White People who feel threatened by the idea of having a black or female boss.”
Who was the GOP candidate for PA Governor in 2006?
Thought so.
“Meritocracy only matters to the GOP when there are Angry White People who feel threatened by the idea of having a black or female boss.”
Who’s the new GOP Governor of Louisiana?
hint, he’s not a white guy.
seriously John, you are making yourself look foolish.
Do you have black friends too? Want to name names?
Good Lord. This entire thread has encapsulated US politics in this recent age: “I know you are, but what am I?”
Next thing you know, Little Johnny will push Little Jeffy off the monkey bars and then a “my dad will beat up your dad” argument will ensue.
DV
The statement I responded to was a blatant lie.
I’m not going to stand by and let blanket false statements just sit there.
The race for president has made people uncomfortable because of the fact a black man with a prejudicial past may be our next leader..
“Meritocracy only matters to the GOP when there are Angry White People who feel threatened by the idea of having a black or female boss.”
Or when bussing became law. I remember that issue creating a lot of new Republicans. Wasn’t deseg – and all the code words that went along with it – the birth of GOP strength in the South?
Pandora is exactly right — the GOP has been the party of the Southern Strategy since Nixon created it, and the sole purpose of that strategy was to use race as a wedge issue. It is fun to watch its modern adherents try to run away from it. The fact that there may be black repubs is not evidence that the Southern Strategy and its progeny do not exist. Same is true for the existence of Log Cabin republicans — that does not stop the GOP from using gay people as a wedge issue and precisely with the same people Obama was talking about.
I’ll note that both Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powell have had quite positive things to say about Obama. And I’ll note that the GOP gov of LA is neither black or female.
instead you just stand by and say nothing about an illegal war, torture and corruption.
right, got it, I understand 🙂
rsmitty,
did you not ever read the comment from Feroce that said his son would kick my ass? this type of thing usually starts when he posts a comment
I corrected the record, nothing more.
DV – I am that son. Let’s go! Down at the coffee shop!
Honestly, my comment was intended to blanket all, whether anyone is my friend, foe, or indifferent. I wasn’t singling any one person out. It just gets pretty lame after awhile, at least in my opinion. However, I know other people enjoy it, so all I can say is my dad can beat up your dad.
my dad is dead…now I’m offended!
GRRRRR….
I am offended at the CEO of Exxon Mobile getting an 18% payhike while the rest of us actually work for a living are put in the poor house by his company and their crony friends in the whitehouse. Hell if I was rewarded like that year after year I would make enough monry to be one of those paying over 60% of the country’s total tax bill
“By the way, notice how Dave, true-to-form, picks the least reputable polling firm to link to, rather than an “elite” one that actually gets the numbers right. At least he’s consistent in his brain-bashing.”
“Whatever.“
I agree with Andy that these CEO’s got the job I always yearned for that’s where i can be a total failure and walk away with 345 million like the CEO of home Depot and then get appointed as head man of the new Chrysler corp. Only in America.
Please, Dave. You know you submitted that poll to NBC10, pretending to be the survey group. It’s all your fault, you did it all, you hack-job, partisan, you.
Signed,
Lickspittle.
Plus, I totally missed the opportunity to bust an “elitist” joke on XStryker. I’m slipping.
Let’s see folks 60 people are dead from car bombs in Iraq today. So now all you folks who are supporting the senile old man repeat after me. “I tell you my friends that the Surge is working”
Yes John the REPUKS did appoint Connie and Colin to top jobs and if my memory serves me they both lied to us prior to invading Iraq.
THE BOTTOM LINE. We all know Barack Obama is NOT an elitist. For pete’s sake, look what he did after he graduated from law school – he went back to the streets of Chicago. As he said, he “misspoke” but he didn’t lie. Those of us who can think, know what he meant and he was right. So let’s hope this dies a deserved death.
So far i am half right i have been watching hardball with mathews an the senile old man and i said last night that i was betting on softball well so far it’s been a love in
Elitist….hum…don’t know what that term means anymore…especially if now applies to a black man who lived for a period of time on food stamps.
But if a multi-million dollar political woman with strong social and political ties from her family and husband, and a man who’s a descendant of a slave-owning plantation owner, and whose father and grandfather were admirals, says that Obama’s an Elitist, then it must be true.
To the media: Isn’t there a missing white girl somewhere in the world?
That’s much better, Dave, now you’ve picked a reputable pollster that shows a 4 point improvement from the prior week. I could argue that it means that the “bitter” comment actually helped Obama, but that would be silly. The fact is that as accurate as SUSA’s polling has been, the prior weeks 18 point gap was an outlier (all good pollsters occasionally get bad data).
I could point to Quinnipiac, which shows no difference from the prior week. But in all honesty, I think the comment (or the spin about it) hurt him a little bit, as evidenced by today’s Rasmussen poll (showing a drop of 4 points for Obama, to a now 9 point lead for Clinton). Not the best thing to say, but basically not a big deal.
Hey, if taking the time to know what I’m talking about when it comes to polls makes me an elitist, guilty as charged. After 7 years of Bush, I think most of America is hungry for someone who impresses them, not someone they can share a beer with.