Oprah Promotes Anti-Science Kook
Jenny McCarthy, a purveyor of the false autism-vaccine link, has a deal with Oprah’s production company for a talk show and blog. McCarthy has published a book on how she has “cured” her son’s autism by diet and has been outspoken on the autism-vaccine non-link.
Jenny McCarthy is the worst type of anti-science fighter, the self-styled expert (more on this later in the week). The anti-vaccine campaign has real consequences, more sick children. England is experiencing its largest measles outbreak in 20 years because the rate of vaccination has decreased because of the autism scare.
The latest research has shown a very strong genetic component to autism. The link of autism with vaccines was first proposed in a paper by Wakefield in 1998, which has been shown to be fraudulent. All the co-authors have withdrawn their names from the paper.
Don’t forget her partner in crime – boyfriend, Jim Carrey.
They refuse to let that Wakefield paper go.
Until you walk in the shoes of the Autistic parent, all you offer is your own brand of ignorance. May you never see a perfect child slide into autism right after an MMR, it’s the saddest thing you can imagine. Why dont you try to 1) get informed (google “simpsonwood autism”, “homeland security act autism” then read the act itself) then 2) get some compassion.
They say ignorance is bliss, in your case it seems you just whiffed in your first shot as a contributor.
John – Having worked with autistic children for almost a decade I have some authority. I think you comment perfectly encapsulates the problem. These parents are desperate and take any sign of hope and run with it.
It is quite sad, but it would behoove all of us if these “solutions” presented were scientifically accurate.
Agreed, LG. My heart breaks for these children and families, but bad science isn’t going to help them. The sooner we let go of the Wakefield paper the sooner we may find a cure.
Allowing measles mumps and rubella to return because some parents are mad at the world does not seem like a good trade off to me.
she is hot though…man she is hot
“It is quite sad, but it would behoove all of us if these “solutions” presented were scientifically accurate.”
Full Disclosure: I have a 23 year old son with autism.
LG, here’s the problem. Science has no fucking clue!! on the hows of whys of autism. Parents will grasp at anything because it’s very frustrating to deal with a condition that no one knows how to treat. No on knows why it happens.
Brain Chemistry is a funny thing. I’ve read that some families have had some success in removing chocolate and red dye #5 from their children’s diet. Didn’t work for me, but I tried. Until science figures this (autism) out, you’re going to see this a lot. Doesn’t make the parents stupid, ignorant, or any of those other adjectives that may be thrown at them. They’re parents. They’re doing the best that they can. I don’t believe the vaccine link anymore that you guys do, but until someone figures out why autism happens, people will believe what they believe
“because some parents are mad at the world ”
No, right now I’m just mad at jason330 🙂
“They say ignorance is bliss, in your case it seems you just whiffed in your first shot as a contributor.”
I don’t agree, but you could always use the Homer Simpson defense “But it’s my first day”
While the science is still out on the causes of autism – I think that net benefits of childhood vaccinations have been proven. Even parents of unvaccinated children reap the benefits of 50 years worth of preventing measles mumps and rubella.
Sorry about the stupid wording of my comment.
Air conditioning. As air conditioning has become more common, so has autism. So they must be clearly linked. The government and air conditioning manufacturers are covering this up, but I have the data to prove it. Just ask if the kids with autism were exposed to air conditioning as infants. You’ll see…
Let’s bring back polio, whooping cough, and chicken pox based on a bunch of alarmist pseudo-scientific data and anecdotal stories, but I know what it is. Air conditioning.
This autism-big bad pharma conspiracy theory is just hysteria, and the people who believe it have no credible scientific evidence to prove it. And the organizations that push this theory are doing it to make money. They are like the people who say that HIV doesn’t cause AIDS, and they are ignoring the virtually all medical professional societies like the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, World Health Organization and Institute of Medicine who have stated there is no evidence that vaccines cause autism.
So far, no link between autism and vaccines has been found in any credible studies – that is the bottom line. I am open to changing my mind if someday there is a credible study that shows a link. But there is a link between children getting horrible diseases such as polio when they’re not vaccinated. Remember the days of polio and iron lungs? Of smallpox? Imagine how those parents felt. But the anti-vaccine crowd would like us to return to that world.
Correlation does not equal causation.
The science doesn’t explain autism, Mark, but relative to vaccines the science is very clear. Vaccines are safe enough for widespread use and the alternative (for examples measles outbreak mentioned abouve) are unacceptable.
Get with the fucking program.
“The science doesn’t explain autism, Mark, but relative to vaccines the science is very clear. Vaccines are safe enough for widespread use and the alternative (for examples measles outbreak mentioned abouve) are unacceptable.
Get with the fucking program.”
Hey idiot….RTFP!…”I don’t believe the vaccine link anymore that you guys do”
I understand people’s pain and frustration with the pace of science on autism, I really do. Real science is slow and people are suffering right now.
The problem is that people like McCarthy are misleading people with discredited hypotheses and it has real world consequences. Not vaccinating your children is a huge risk and vaccination against childhood diseases has saved many, many lives. People like McCarthy are very damaging because they call themselves experts and they have compelling personal stories, but the plural of anecdote is not data. I’m sure people would rather hear their information from a hot blond that’s been in Playboy rather than another geek in a white lab coat.
I’m open to any evidence from a credible scientific study. The problem is that Wakefield has been shown to be falsified and subsequent studies have been very clear that vaccines are not the cause of autism.
“The problem is that people like McCarthy are misleading people with discredited hypotheses and it has real world consequences. Not vaccinating your children is a huge risk and vaccination against childhood diseases has saved many, many lives”
I agree with you on the vaccine front, but not on the diet change front. Not knowing (nor will I watch Oprah) what will be in the program, if the focus is on what diet changes they made for their son, I’m willing to give that one an open minded look. Again until science gives us a treatment for autism, then anything goes 🙂
The reason that you end up with so many touchy nerves on this subject, is that in the normal case of arguing policy, etc, some person can come up with verified facts, etc that will back up the argument. Not happening here. There is no science that can explain why autism happens nor how to treat it. I’m not going to vilify the messenger here. Not sure that if I was in the same position (I found out about my son’s diagnosis 20 years ago, before the internet was really a factor) I wouldn’t be doing the same thing. I just wouldn’t look as hot 🙂
Thanks for your insight, Mark. I don’t know if the science is in on the diet. I’m pretty sure early studies have shown “chelation therapy” to be ineffective. Yes, people can do good things and bad things at the same time. I’m sure McCarthy has good intentions, as do all parents.
It’s going to be a long time for science to weigh in on autism. Look at how little we still know about cancer. There’s been some interesting studies lately, especially ones showing specific genetic links. Those could lead to treatments. I think they’re making progress already by recognizing it is “autism spectrum” which makes it a variety of diseases and causes.
““chelation therapy” to be ineffective”
But considering the medication (Ritalin) they put my son was as ineffective as the above, I’m not sure I see the harm.
While no stone should be left unturned, good research is already in over the immunization debate. Additionally, few are aware that the immunizations used these days are a far less concentration to achieve protection, then even 10 yrs. ago, with even more immunizations given in childhood. However, the road for autism advocates is hard, and whatever gets them thru the night, shouldn’t derail efforts in other sprectrums. But I do think anonone is on to something with air conditioning. Good Lord, look at all the increased allergies, and obesity, and good ol’ Legionnaires’ Disease which points right back to air conditioning, and this “climatically controlled” world the US insists on living in these days! Good thought anonone!
Checked out the book on Amazon. From what I can tell, this book deals with possible biomedical treatments of Autism. Although probably pretty kooky in itself, not sure I see a reason to vilify her
I feel great sympathy for what John and those like him have gone through dealing with autism in their children.
My reading tells me that the vaccine-autism link continues to be an open question, as this excellent piece suggests: http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2007/06/15/couricandco/entry2934107.shtml
However, the fact is that autism is on the increase, and science has apparently not yet uncovered the cause(s). Here are two studies that suggest that thimerosal (a mercury compound) in vaccines is not a solitary cause of autism:
“Dr Eric Fombonne, a leader in autism research and professor at McGill University in Montreal, has a persuasive argument against the vaccine theory. In Quebec, children who got vaccines from 1987 to 1991 had about half as much mercury exposure as those in the United States; from 1992 to 1995, they had the same amount; and from 1996 on, they had no exposure at all because mercury preservatives were removed. Yet the autism rates in Quebec increased steadily through that entire period, and actually went up faster after the mercury was eliminated.
Since Thimerosal had been banned from most childhood vaccines in America in 2001, reported autism rates have continued to increase, says Dr. Nancy J. Minshew. She heads The Autism Center of Excellence at the University of Pittsburgh, one of six centers to receive funds for autism research from the National Institutes of Health (NIH).”
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/7395411/deadly_immunity/
(Scroll down to Northesternstudent comments)
One hypothesis I would want to investigate is: There is a synergism involved, that is, there is a genetic predisposition in children for autism that can be triggered by mercury, whether it be mercury in a compound used as a vaccine preservative (thimerosal), or mercury compounds in the environment, emitted due to human activities.
It is well known that combustion of coal emits mercury compound containing particles into the air, and coal ash contains mercury compounds which can leach into groundwater. So with continually expanding use of coal combustion as an energy source, it would not surprise me that environmentally derived mercury compounds, ingested by children, could be an autism trigger.
Ouch… This one was tough….. Science has always been my cornerstone.
But, as a self imposed scientist, using my own body as a data base, I was able to cure myself of extreme allergies. My system (which works for me == equates allergy symptoms to the amount of extra sugar in the blood stream) has no scientific data (yet) backing it up..
But is works rather well, meaning it’s effective.
Because of this ability to research, expirement and share information in today’s world, we may find such links in everyday other occurrances, including diet and autism…..
Removing mercury from vaccines did not change the rate of autism. Also the “too many vaccines, too soon” hypothesis was shown to be wrong from a recent study in England. When they uncoupled vaccines it had no effect and it was harmful.
I believe that there have been some deaths associated with chelation therapy. That’s why it’s important where you get your information from. People who promote something that is ineffective, yet not harmful don’t raise my ire. People who are wrong on the science and are causing harm to people do raise my ire. The anti-vaccine people are hurting people, they may have good intentions, but they are wrong.
I see nothing wrong with changing diets as long as it isn’t causing harm.
Anecdotal evidence does not equate to scientific proof.
Fun Fact of the Day: Crematoriums have high levels of mercury in their emissions.
Please note: Argument has been made it is not increased autism, but wider spectrum of classification, and earlier awareness of diagnosis.
Excellent point, Joanne!
There is a good presentation of the autism spectrum you referenced in Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism_spectrum
Perry, I’m not allowed to Wiki, but thanks for the support.
Donsquishydishimaharishi
she is hot though…man she is hot
What is it about crazy and hot that makes guys drool?
Crazy + Hot = Guys like us have a chance.
Sane + Hot = Guys like us keep walking.
“us” means “you” not “me” or “you and me.”
A1,
Take a look at this venn diagram. The circle on the right represents people who follow political blogs. The circle on the left represents hot guys.
Notice how the circles are not touching?
Jason, my friend,
YMMV.
I saw Jenny and Jim on Larry King, and I kinda felt sorry for her. She gets points though for taking on a serious responsible adult topic though. Jim Carey only made points taking on Jenny.
To be clear, it’s not even Carrey’s kid. His only vested interest ends when she gets dressed.
I mean, I am sure he cares for the kid, but it’s not the same as her level of caring about Autism.
..and you can’t tell me she couldn’t have, quite possibly, been under the influence of any narcotics or substances at any time in the 9 months of pregnancy.
Her level of interest suggests her passing the blame to relieve her own guilt.
UI, did you lookup the key words I asked you to? Any thoughtful comments? ANything better than the unproven side you are taking on this issue. Call me the ignorant one, but you have no better proof than big pharma and CDC doctors emerging from a secret conference to say it doesn’t cause Autism…..is you proof proof?
Not in my book. Not even close.
I, for one, think the vaccine / autism link is horseshit. As has been pointed out, it’s the classic logical flaw of taking correlation to equal causation. Kinda like the Flying Spaghetti Monster folks who can make a compelling argument that global warming has been caused by a decrease in the overall number of pirates in the world.
One thing that has always baffled me with the anti-vaccine folks is this, though.
Let’s say there actually was some relationship between childhood vaccines and autism.
Unvaccinated children can (and often do) get measles. Some of them even die from it. Nobody dies from autism. Assuming that your vaccine-autism link is real, aren’t you still stacking the deck in the wrong direction? That is to say, if the two theoretical options are “put your child at risk for getting a potentially fatal infection” (don’t vaccinate them) OR “put your child at risk for getting a developmental disorder” (vaccinate them) – wouldn’t you rather have a child who is autistic yet alive than a child that’s…dead?
Hot, smart, or sane – pick two.
“Her level of interest suggests her passing the blame to relieve her own guilt”
Wow, the most insensitive post yet about this. Brian, aren’t you a little young to be so cynical? Yes, let’s blame the parents for autism. Why don’t you also blame us for Global Warming…Makes about as much sense.
“To be clear, it’s not even Carrey’s kid. His only vested interest ends when she gets dressed.”
Maybe so, but if he lives in the household of someone with Autism, he probably has more of an interest than some snot-nosed kid who just has no CLUE what he’s talking about
JohnnyX, care to defrock liberal icon Bobby Kennedy’s son?
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/7395411/deadly_immunity/
Best get educated before you throw out comments like it’s “horseshit”.
On this subject, the kooks are the ones that discount the parents.
Bobby Kennedy’s son is wrong, as is McCarthy. There is no secret cabal, the data comes from peer-reviewed journals, multiple studies.
Brian,
Parents are not to blame for their child’s autism. McCarthy is only responsible for pushing discredited and wrong information.
John,
“Best get educated”
Yeah, because Rolling Stone articles are obviously a more credible source of scientific opinion than the AMA, American Academy of Pediatrics, American College of Medical Toxicology, Canadian Pediatric Society, National Academy of Sciences, FDA, CDC, WHO, Public Health Agency of Canada, the European Medicines Agency, etc. Please, spare me the conspiracy theory garbage.
I’m not saying we know precisely what causes autism, because we obviously don’t. But there is NO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE that it has anything whatsoever to do with vaccines or thiomersol.
I don’t claim to have any understanding whatsoever of the challenges that parents of autistic children face. But giving credibility to a bunch of quack scientists and jeopardizing the health of your own child and others by refusing to vaccinate is the wrong crusade to get behind. A far more productive approach would be to support new and ongoing research that looks for other potential genetic and environmental factors that have not yet been resoundingly ruled out like vaccines and thiomersal have.
I would love to be a fly on the wall someday when you have that discussion with your wife…not whther to vaccinate or not because you are quite clear on how you feel….but rather on the concept of total vaccine load and the idea that maybe the parents aren’t full of “shit”….bet you wil have a “laser” eye on your kid in the days follwoing the MMR….you will never admit it, but that is that’s what’s coming for you……
I hope your child does not get autism, but if it happens after a vaccine all the agencies you listed will seem a little less credible to you then than they do now…..
obviously you and UI can’t read the other side and choose not to….ignorance is truly bliss in your case, and UI, you whiffed colossally. You think you did well because you have nearly 40 comments, but your callous use of “kook” is very un-progressive and un-liberal, it’s just rude, condescending, and in this case, above all else, uninformed.
sad.
define “Credible Evidence” for me please. Do I use your definition or mine? My son has autism, does my experience count? Am I an idiot? I am in the same MBA program as you. IS that a reflection on UD, me or you?
You see JohnnyX, the CDC, WHO, (insert name or acronym here) is your proof, and Simpsonwood, Homeland Security Act, countless anecdotal parental experiences, Vaccine Injury Court and life are my proof.
Why do you feel so superior on the issue?
Science? Science is a clasic two edge sword, bringing both innovation and destruction to our lives.
Bottom Line: my son is FULLY vaccinated so I am a responsible citizen in your book (I’ll sleep much better). He also has autism and I don’t know why. It might be vaccines and those that think it is ought not be callously dismissed by raging agendized bloggers like UI and sympatico bloggers like you.
Here’s a great life lesson: 2 ears and one mouth. Use them in ratio God gave them to you and you’ll go farther with your MBA.
UI, I don’t know anything about you, but this clip informs me of what I think you just did: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7igsvOqOYXA
John,
I am sorry for your child, but the people that are promoting this theory are doing it because they are making money from doing it.
They are preying on desperate parents’ miseries and it is a travesty and a fraud. Furthermore it cheats legitimate research out of needed funding.
The promoters who are profiting from this are worse than kooks: they are crooks. I am sorry that you have been taken by them.
That’s right A1. McCarthy is now making a lot of money off of this.
John,
I’m sorry for your family’s suffering, but McCarthy is the worst kind of person in my book. She’s arrogantly claiming that she knows more than everyone else. I’m sorry for her family’s suffering too, but that doesn’t make her a scientific expert. What she’s pushing is hurting people and it’s taking resources away from researching real treatments.
anonone, the real problem here is: no one can or wants to read.
My son is vaccinated.
I don’t know why he has autism.
I am sympatico with McCarthy to the specific extent that her views ought no be dissmissed as being “kook”y.
I have offered links and recommendations for people to google terms to see compelling stories on the other side.
Trust me, I am the last person to be taken, I am active in my son’s life, growth , development and trajectory. I seek no sympathy nor offer safe harbor for anyone who even SEEMS to dismiss an opposing viewpoint.
You can all disagree with McCarthy that is certainly your right. I strong fell that many are doing so from a profoundly uninformed standpoint. I am informed uniquely.
It does not make me right. It makes me different.
I guess i expected this board to be more tolerant than it has been on this issue.
John,
I am sympathetic to your situation, and I understand why anecdotal evidence and personal experiences are powerful influencers on one’s worldview.
I also understand statistical analyses and how it is used to prove or disprove causal relationships between variables. In this case, after multiple studies statistically analyzing tens of thousands of cases, no relationships between vaccines or mercury and autism have been found. Unfortunately, many don’t believe this because autism begins to manifest around the age and time of childhood vaccinations, but this relationship is coincidental, not causal.
I believe that I can disagree with proponents of this theory from a profoundly informed standpoint. Both my children are under 10 are fully vaccinated.
By the way, if you have not read this article, I highly recommend it to anybody interested in this thread:
http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/magazine/16-03/ff_autism
It is about adults with autism – very interesting and moving.
Finally, John, if you want people to agree with you regarding this theory because they sympathize with you and your son, this is the wrong place to expect that. Nevertheless, some of us are profoundly interested in autism even if we don’t have a family member who has it.
In kindness.
John, I think this sums it up:
“He also has autism and I don’t know why.”
You should stop at admitting you don’t know why. Instead you seem eager to place the blame somewhere that again and again has been shown NOT to be the culprit. That is what I don’t understand. Your experience as a parent is valuable, I don’t discount that. But, I’m sorry, it is not at all relevant to making valid conclusions from the available scientific data.
Also, I don’t know what you’re talking about with the MBA stuff. I’m guessing that you think you know who I am but you would be wrong. I am most certainly not in an MBA program at UD. I do happen to have an MA and am in the process of earning a PhD at UD – but that’s quite a different story. So either you’re confused about what degree program you’re in or I’m not who you think I am.
you shoud stop at admitting “i don’t discount that” because you do and on that point only my opinion matters.
try to empathize, it is not the enemy of being informed as you so clearly think it is.
Open your mind, thus far it is clear you have not.
anonone, I am not supporting the theory.
I am saying that UI’s rabid and rude acclimtaion that Jenny Mc is a “kook” is not appropriate.
There is eveidence on the other side and it isn’t “kook”y it’s different.
I encourage all to get informed and I will, seemingly unlike everyone else here, read your link as opposed to post a 5th request for some poeple here to read the other side.
Fianlly you are right, sympathy here is low.
That said, I appreciate your input.
For fuck’s sake, John, all the empathy in the world doesn’t turn bogus science into good science. That’s what you don’t seem to get.
It’s like the evolution deniers who say “teach the controversy.” There is no controversy. There is one theory (evolution via natural selection) that is supported by a giant mountain of data and then one theory that is supported by virtually nothing (intelligent design or creationism or whatever).
The same thing applies here. There is a crapload of data that says “it’s not vaccines nor thiomersal” and then there’s like one study and a bunch of web based conspiracy and hype that says “the evil vaccines did it.” My understanding of the nature of scientific theory is that you win most often when you bet on the horse pulling the cart full of evidence.
Life is deeper than you purport. Good luck with your closed minded approach. All I have said here is LOOK, READ, EDUCATE youself on the OTHER SIDE of an issue before ou spout off on it.
SCIENCE does not always get it right. That’s a fact. So perhaps dentente is in order. I am a responsible citizen who has vaccinated his son beacuse I tried and have protected him from disease. He also has autism and will never have a friend, because he can’t.
And I’m raising him in world of people that can’t or won’t value the experiential input of parents who dedicate their lives to making their children the best they can be.
That’s all I am: a dad who cares and who WILL go thorugh life with a balanced and open approach to science, faith and responsibility. Vested in all and unreliant in just one.
Wake up and good luck.
Peace.
John,
I get pissed off, too, at pseudoscience that victimizes or gives false hope to vulnerable people while at the same time lines the pockets of those who promote it.
I don’t call them kooks; I call them crooks. If Jenny McCarthy believes what she is preaching, she is dreadfully and dangerously uninformed. If she doesn’t believe it; she is a charlatan and a crook.
And there is no credible evidence to support this theory. The links that you asked us to search lead back to people and organizations that have a financial interest in promoting these theories (as does Jenny McCarthy, which makes me think she is a crook).
As pointed out in the initial post, the horror of it is that even one child might die or be crippled from polio because of the ignorant or fraudulent proponents of this pseudoscientific garbage.
How am I so wrong to think that a birth defect might be caused by something the mother did during pregnancy?
Insensitive, yes, but logic has no emotions.
The increase in autism over the past two decades suggests that something over the last two decades has changed to start causing it.
In the 90’s and 2000’s pharmaceutical drugs became mainstream recreational drugs. Hormones have been added to the milk and meat supplies. Plastic baby bottles have been found to possibly leech chemicals into formula. Fast food has taken over the food pyramid, which is pumped full of preservatives.
You can’t tell me that all of this has been ruled out. You can’t tell me that McCarthy was organic, sober, toxin free from the moment of conception until the moment of birth. You also can’t tell me that the child wasn’t during his developmental stages, either.
It is quite possible that since noone knows what causes autism that toxins during pregnancy could quite possibly be a cause. If we knew we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
She is hell bent on blaming vaccinations. I didn’t have seasonal allergies until the spring after I joined the military, and was pumped full of vaccines. Some new vaccine may cause autism. Who am I to say no.
We all know she isn’t all of the way sane. How logical is it to say that she may be off her rocker enough to be deflecting the guilt associated with giving birth to a non-perfect child onto what may possibly turn out to be junk science?
My opinion is that she very well may be.
clearly you did not look up either simpsonwood or homeland security act, bobby kennedy jr or vaccine injury court.
just 4 quick hits at the other side. bobby don’t need money and the other three are news related not money schemes.
Please just do some basic reading.
The ignorance here is so pervasive and deep.
I get the pseudoscience crap, for the 5th time: MY SON IS VACCINATED.
I am tryig to simply point out there is another side to this that isn’t full of shit. It is just informed in a different way.
you can disrespect it all you want, that just reflects upon you.
Peace.
“LOOK, READ, EDUCATE youself on the OTHER SIDE”
That’s the thing, I already have. And after educating myself, I still think they’re full of crap, so I say so.
“And I’m raising him in world of people that can’t or won’t value the experiential input of parents who dedicate their lives to making their children the best they can be.”
I don’t know how I can say this any more clearly. Your experience in dealing with an autistic son undoubtedly would be valuable to other people with autistic children. If the child that my wife is slated to have later this year ends up being autistic, I’d be happy to have your input and insight. I honestly would, I’m not joking at all here. Your experience counts for a lot – again, in helping others with autistic children learn how to better care for them.
That being said, I’m not going to refuse to vaccinate my child, because frankly I think that’s a stupid idea. I’d rather not take my chances at having my kid possibly die from measles. Like I said before, in the theoretical world where the choice is between an autistic living child and a dead child, I’ll take the autistic one please.
I’m sorry your son has autism, I can imagine it’s an incredibly hard thing to deal with and I don’t know where I would personally find the strength to do so should it happen to me. But the fact that you, one person, got your kid vaccinated and then he ended up being autistic, is NOT sufficient evidence to recommend everybody else reconsider getting their kid vaccinated. Correlation is not equal to causation, you can’t extrapolate broad recommendations from single case studies, yadda yadda we’ve gone over this.
“That’s all I am: a dad who cares and who WILL go thorugh life with a balanced and open approach to science, faith and responsibility.”
I have an open mind to data that are credible. When I say credible I mean produced with solid statistics, reasonably repeatable or at least supported by other unrelated data, published in respected, peer-reviewed journals, etc. I see that credibility in the data that says vaccines aren’t the problem. I don’t see it in the data (is there really any besides the one paper and a conference that got misrepresented and blown out of proportion?) from the “other side.”
As far as “faith” goes, if you’re talking religious faith then don’t look in this direction. But alas that is a discussion for an entirely different thread.
John:
“UI, did you lookup the key words I asked you to? Any thoughtful comments? ANything better than the unproven side you are taking on this issue. Call me the ignorant one, but you have no better proof than big pharma and CDC doctors emerging from a secret conference to say it doesn’t cause Autism…..is you proof proof?”
Here is a quick lesson on researching your sources beyond Google.
I googled homeland security act autism” and looked at the top result: .
http://www.whale.to/a/merc.html
The bulk of the article contributed nothing to proving a tie between the vaccines and autism. Here is the bit where they try to support that:
“Many scientists scoff at the mercury hypothesis, but the theory got a big
boost in 1999, when the American Academy of Pediatrics urged vaccine makers
to quit using mercury-based preservatives. ”
Unfortunately if you chheck the AAP website you’ll see that they actually do NOT believe there is a link between vaccines and autism:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18180424?ordinalpos=1180&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
Your trusted source of information goes on to say:
‘Last year, the federal Institute
of Medicine concluded that the link between autism and thimerosal was
“biologically plausible.”‘
Actually, the Institute of Medicine feels the vaccine theory is without merit: http://www.iom.edu/CMS/3793/4705/20155.aspx
From the IoM: “The committee does not recommend a policy review of the current schedule and recommendations for the administration of either the MMR vaccine or thimerosal-containing vaccines. The committee recommends a public health response that fully supports an array of vaccine safety activities.
In addition, the committee recommends that available funding for autism research be channeled to the most promising areas. The committee makes additional recommendations regarding surveillance and epidemiological research, clinical studies, and communication related to these vaccine safety concerns. ”
So the two sources the author cites as proof actually hold the exact opposite opionion.
The lesson here is that you have to go to the source. Someone cherry picking quotes our disproven studies while using emotionally-charged language isn’t proof for your side of an argument.
Every time you point a finger, there’s three pointing back at you. You have a hell of a lot of gall to accuse someone who’s looked at the science and the data of ignorance, when you rely on google articles and accept them without scrutiny.
Hugs and Kisses, Free Radical
I never said my son’s autism was caused by vaccinations.
Can anyone here read?
do you believe that all peer reviewed studies are accurate and help protect people from bad science?
http://books.google.com/books?id=LwlCqYk3aLUC&pg=PA51&lpg=PA51&dq=thalidomide+peer+reivewed&source=bl&ots=BlkbWfOodu&sig=FQGX2OMdT8Wdm5xdePX1mjFTDbU&hl=en&ei=zA4BSrHgJ5quMfXlzN8H&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#PPA52,M1
things are not always as they seem……
“conference that got misrepresented and blown out of proportion”- JohnnyX’s opinion.
“I never said my son’s autism was caused by vaccinations.
Can anyone here read?”
In that case, what the hell is your point?
“do you believe that all peer reviewed studies are accurate and help protect people from bad science?”
Um…no. Didn’t say that. But given the choice, I’ll take peer reviewed journal articles over Jenny McCarthy’s opinion any day.
““conference that got misrepresented and blown out of proportion”- JohnnyX’s opinion.”
And the opinion of the vast majority of posts I found when I took you up on googling this mysterious conference that you seem to think explains everything.
You have to forgive me, I can’t help but think you sound like Liz Allen with the “google this” stuff. Is autism the Zionists fault? LOL
my point is that being informed requires an open mind. Don’t dismiss it because an ex-palyboy bunny is the messenger. Look at the other side, then research the points. It isn’t just wackos with conspiracy theories. Being informed isn’t just scientific American magazine and peer reviewed journals. It’s EVERYTHING: parents, vaccine company protections written into the back of the Homeland Security Act at the last minute by Dick Armey, its David Kirby, it’s the CDC, NIH, WHO, it’s simpsonwood.
The other side isn’t full of shit, it’s just the other side.
All I seek is some respect for it.
Obviously I’m just a fool to try to seek it here.
You do know that they don’t use thiomersal in the MMR vaccine anymore and yet kids still end up with autism, right?
So…yeah…
of course I know that, I’m informed. Thimerasol 100% out in 2003
my son was born in 2000 and had his MMRs in 2001, 2002 and 2003.
seems a bit active: http://www.cispimmunize.org/IZSchedule_Childhood.pdf
what do you think?
also, current FLU vaccine (non-mist) DOES still contain Thimerisol as its preservative
good night.
peace be with you and your wife and your gestating child. Faith is indeed a conundrum.
I was like you, until I held my son in my arms.
Again, that just makes me different, not special or right. Faith defies science and I have found that they can coexist, rather peacefully too.
Again, peace.
Quantity of information isn’t the issue, it’s quality. If I read a lot of tinfoil-hat consipracy theories about 9/11, I’m not well informed.
Being informed requires an open mind, but not an unthinking, undiscerning, unquestioning one. I googled your suggestions, and I find them lacking.
You’re telling people not to be ignorant, to google stuff and read, but it’s not supporting whatever argument you’re trying to make. Actually, if I just rely on the magic of google I can find articles that debunk yours, e.g http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2005/06/robert_f_kenned.html.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. We shouldn’t have to do the legwork for you. Instead of telling us to not be ignorant and google stuff, you should give specifics and a coherent argument.
and the endless debunking or each other can can go ad infinitum:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr-and-david-kirby/vaccine-court-autism-deba_b_169673.html
mine is from an iconic liberal blog! Does that trump yours?
I AM NOT MAKING THE CASE FOR VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM, MY CASE IS THAT THOSE THAT DO MAKE THAT CASE ARE NO KOOKS AS UI SAYS THEY ARE.
They are often parents who deserve more respect than they get, that’s all.
I make NO extraordinary claims except I’m now completely convinced no one here can read.
John: Thank you for reinforcing my point about how just linking blogs in itself doesn’t prove anything.
As for an inability to read: I’m really trying to read your first post and understand your point. Respecting the parents doesn’t mean respecting their arguments. “Kook” may be harsh, but is apt for someone that believes something irrational despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. “Ignorant” is also harsh, as you’ve used it here, and yet I can’t see how it actually applies to UI. It’s not that she doesn’t recognize that the other camp have their reasons…she’s pointing out that those reasons are irrational and unfounded.
“We all know she isn’t all of the way sane”
And your medical degree is from where?
“The increase in autism over the past two decades suggests that something over the last two decades has changed to start causing it.”
Interesting. Sounds like inaccurate causation logic to me.
Have an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out.
Brian,
I wouldn’t be surprised to find out autism has an epigenetic origin (interaction between genes and environment) but it’s not the same thing as saying that parents caused it.
I had cancer, but after eating a pound of broccolli a day for a year, it went away!
thanks Jenny!
Dons….
just more rudeness and inappropriate sarcasm. worse than UI and FR.
pathetic.
“I had cancer, but after eating a pound of broccolli a day for a year, it went away!”
In this case, I believe the cure may be worse than the disease 🙂
Congratulations, DV, you’re worse than me!
See what I meant about “junk science” and “pop medicine” UI?
John, Like I said from the get-go. No stone should be left unturned. Your personal journey with your son has got to be laborious at all levels. Many here are choosing not to revisit the stones that have been overturned. I don’t discredit you one bit, for going back perhaps for a second look, or more if you want. Look what forensics did for the crime scene. I think the argument here, is research funding and scientific headway is made going to the next unturned stone, since “quantifiable” correlation and causation has been ruled out appreciably. Not to say there may not be incident–but I think the scientist’s frustration may be the “sensationalized” Jenny McCarthy story, may distract from ongoing research, funding, and education in a forefront realm. You are a seasoned parent of an autistic child–and have had time now to research, digest, and investigate a bunch of angles to this affliction. A new parent receiving this diagnosis on behalf of their child, will now by reflex alone hear “the loudest voice” out there. Right now it will be Jenny McCarthy. Is that fair? Is it fair to a physician,helping your child, and whom you trust , and is guiding a parent to research trials, neuropathologists, testing, intervention and all sorts of immediate intervention, to have to navigate thru Jenny McCarthy too? I think the point made here, is science would like to move forward. And it has, moving more in the realm of environmental genetics etc.. If people choose to hang on immunization theories (and I know you don’t), than that’s OK, but the game plan is to move forward off that theory as a headliner, and the parent needs to find a practitioner who likewise is committed to that end. That difference of opinion between parent and doctor, should be settled by switching doctors–not derailing a credible, shift in research,movement on Larry King Live or Oprah. I will never walk in your shoes as a parent, and never want to beat you up for decisions that you make in your child’s behalf. I do just want to offer a rest, and a “just think about it”. The media can be such an enemy at times.
Well said, Joanne.
Joanne is a wise woman.