Obama Reminds Republicans Of Their Free Enterprise Mantra
This has to hurt. But I guess having your own words used against you never feels good.
Why would it drive private insurance out of business? If private insurers say that the marketplace provides the best quality health care; if they tell us that they’re offering a good deal, then why is it that the government, which they say can’t run anything, suddenly is going to drive them out of business? That’s not logical.
It shouldn’t drive them out of business unless their product is crap. That said, there are industries that are thriving along side a public competition… FedEx and UPS come to mind.
EDIT: by cassandra DKosTV has the video:
Tags: Health Care, Obama, Republicans
Will the government be using tax dollars to prop up the private plans, too? Will they be taxing people’s public option insurance to fund the private plans?
No? Mr. President?
Why should private plans be propped up? They make plenty of profit to give us crappy service.
Do UPS and FedEx need tax dollars?
Dave, we really need to address this issue. Private Health Insurance is killing us (literally 🙂 )
Check out Canada’s private plans – they’re doing quite well. We need balance.
With their already massive overhead there isn’t much reason why insurance companies need any support. And the public option is paid for by premiums — if you are poor the government pays all or part of your premium. The same way they do in MA. They are fighting over finding the money to pay for the folks who won’t be able to pay for their own premiums.
And remember what it is that is being defended here — the ability of insurance companies to not spend 15-30+% of your premium on your health care.
“Why should private plans be propped up? They make plenty of profit to give us crappy service.”
You’re completely missing the point.
You want a public option? Fine. But let’s not pretend there will be a level playing field.
And the government doesn’t tax companies who use UPS and FedEx too often in order to pay operational expenses for USPS.
Of course there will be a level playing field — the private insurers will just have to work harder than they ever have at customer service and cost control. And if they are the better option a public plan will fizzle and die.
“Of course there will be a level playing field..”
How on Earth could anyone say that and honestly believe it?
You want a public option? Fine. But let’s not pretend there will be a level playing field.
That’s rich. Everyone knows how Health Insurance companies currently operate. They take your money today and tell you “tough shit” if you need something covered tomorrow.
That’s the level playing field FSP (and nobody else other than insurance company lobbyists) wants to keep in place.
“And if they are the better option a public plan will fizzle and die.”
Same question on this one. Does our government have a history of ending failed large entitlement programs that I’m unaware of?
“That’s the level playing field FSP wants to keep in place.”
Actually, no. I’d like to see us go to full government health care so people can see what a disaster it would be and then move to a private scenario that is portable, consumer-focused and encourages price comparisons that reduce the overall cost of health care.
How on Earth could anyone say that and honestly believe it?
Well, you know, there are bills and summaries of bills out there being considered and marked up. Perhaps you can point to the language that shows that the public option will be unfairly subsidized.
FSp,
That’s not even a good try.
The fact is 50% of REPUBLICANS want this kind of reform because they have had to deal with insurance companies. Nobody expects insurance companies to honor their side of the bargain. That was a profitable business plan for them for years and years. No more.
People who live in the real world are being heard on this. But as with most issues, FSP is full of theories and “Club for Growth” type fantasy world economic scenarios.
I’ve never defended nor had anything positive to say about the health insurance industry. I don’t care if you’re talking health corporation bureaucracy or government bureaucracy, they’re both bad news.
People are all for it just like they were all for the Shamulus. When they see it doesn’t work, they won’t be all for it anymore, like they’re not all for the Shamulus anymore. Then what? We’ll be trillions more in the hole.
The private insurers that provide a service that’s worth paying for will stay in business. The ones who don’t will go out of business. Do Republicans even realize there is currently a government-run healthcare plan? It’s called Medicare and it’s pretty popular. There are also Medicare supplemental plans run by private insurers. Why do people pretend that we don’t know how to do these things? We do.
“And the government doesn’t tax companies who use UPS and FedEx too often in order to pay operational expenses for USPS.”
Health benefits are basically offered to consumers on the barter system. If someone were paid in stamps instead of cash, do you think the IRS would allow that person to be paid free of income taxes? I don’t think so.
there is another great clip out there that has I think Chip Reid asking him about McCain and Lindsey Graham. He totally disses Graham and only refers to McCain. Subtle, but pretty sweet
We’ll be trillions more in the hole.
Not because of this, we won’t. The fight here is over how this gets paid for and won’t gt very far until it does. The trillions in the hole are the long term structural debt racked up by you-know-who as well as increases in mandatory spending in SS and Medicare.
“Not because of this, we won’t. The fight here is over how this gets paid for and won’t gt very far until it does.”
The cost of health care will not go down. It will simply shift from its current payment system to a different payment system. The % of GDP will remain.
“Health benefits are basically offered to consumers on the barter system. If someone were paid in stamps instead of cash, do you think the IRS would allow that person to be paid free of income taxes? I don’t think so.”
The plan discussed would tax people’s health care benefits over a certain amount to pay for the public option. Not to mention that it will whack sick people and unionized workers, it will cause a lot of employers to drop coverage altogether.
“When they see it doesn’t work, they won’t be all for it anymore, like they’re not all for the Shamulus anymore.”
Will they prejudge it, then, the way you and your ilk have the stimulus? Don’t you get it, Dave? All your theorists are beyond down the toilet now. They’re in the sewage system. Nobody believes them except your incredible shrinking party.
“it will cause a lot of employers to drop coverage altogether.”
And what, Mr. Small Business, is the drawback to that? Oh, that’s right, we have to support the leeches and tapeworms, which is what insurance companies are worth to the health of the health-care system.
The cost of health care will not go down. It will simply shift from its current payment system to a different payment system. The % of GDP will remain.
That doesn’t mean that the programs being designed don’t get paid for.
Truth is the health insurance companies have seen the writing on the wall for decades and made no attempt to change. In fact, they seemed almost resigned – intent on gouging us until the time comes we make them stop.
Back to the Republicans. You guys are on the wrong side of this issue (what else is new). Even worse, Rs are offering nothing to address the problem.
GOP new slogan:
No stimulus
No health care
No solutions
Just say “no” (hmm, sounds familiar)
Employers do drop health insurance. There is already a rise in the number of employers cutting back on their contributions to 401k plans and other retirement vehicles. Health insurance — especially as costs rise — isn’t far from the chopping block.
If there is a public plan (plus don’t forget the exchange) there is a very good chance that these folks can get some insurance at a reasonable price — without a risk of being turned down for pre-existings. There are probably small businesses out there who would prefer to hand over to employees a fixed amount of money each year to have them go get insurance….
“All your theorists are beyond down the toilet now.”
And if you keep saying it, one day it may be true.
“And what, Mr. Small Business, is the drawback to that?”
Drawback? That’s not the idea. The idea is that in this “level playing field” the first thing that will happen is that the private options will lose 10-15% of their business off the bat.
“Will they prejudge it, then, the way you and your ilk have the stimulus?”
I hope so. And maybe it will make a difference that we were right about the stimulus, and that people are catching on now.
“Even worse, Rs are offering nothing to address the problem.”
R’s have offered many solutions in the past 4 years that have been ignored, highlighted by John Shaddegg’s AHP plan. Right now, the Dems hold all the levers, so it is incumbent upon them to provide the solutions.
Not only do employers drop insurance but many employees drop employer-insurance because it’s too expensive for them.
Not only that but now many insurance companies are dropping their clients.
The current system is broken. Why are some people still trying to prop it up? I thought Republicans were supposed to be against bailouts? Why do they want to bailout poorly performing insurance companies?
Well here’s a fun alternative by Jim DeMint: Use TARP money to get people to buy insurance.
Now this is what an unpaid for program looks like.
And that Shadegg proposal was a scam basically. It would have undermined individual state consumer protections for insurance (there goes states rights) and set off the new credit card wars, except this time using insurance. AND the AHA proposal — according to the CBO — would provide a place for the already insured to be shifted to not an option for a real expansion on the number of uninsured to get insured. So this bill had more to so with trying to get around state regulations than it did with actually covering anybody.
Hmm… if health insurance companies were big unionized institutions would Republicans be fighting to save them, or be shouting to let them fail?
Frankly, I don’t really care what happens to private health insurance companies – after all, they don’t care about me. I learned the it’s every man for himself mentality at their knee. I think they are despicable, people who build their profits on the backs of their clients while failing to deliver on their contracts when people need them most. Talk about a scam.
Practices like Rescission are beyond vile – it ought to be criminal.
I hope these companies are sweating – big time. It’s about time they had to innovate and compete. And if they can’t compete, then they deserve to go away. I’m done playing with this – can you tell?
I love how my opposition to a massive new government entitlement program is misconstrued as trying to protect the current private regime, even when I’ve clearly stated that I have no love for the current system.
And cassandra, all of your talk about paying for this and paying for that — won’t it be paid for by the people using it through monthly premiums and fees? Because if not, then there’s definitely not a level playing field.
And quoting the CBO on AHP? Okay, then. The CBO said that this current plan would cost $1.3 trillion.
This PDF will tell you all you need to know about how successful Shaddegg’s plan would be.
When government can come in and undercut the private sector, the argument Obama makes is false.
I think we can all agree that it is all about outcomes.
If executives making $225 million per year is the outcome you want – our current system is great!
If decent healthcare is the outcome you want, our current system is lacking.
Which is, of course, why folks from countries with socialized medicine plans like Obama’s come to this country for treatment.
Do they? I mean seriously. Are there actual cases of this, or do you just go around saying it to yourself because it makes you feel better about paying those $225 million per year salaries?
I know there is a wingnut meme going around about some Canadian getting heart surgery in Detroit – but are there actual stats about Canadians crossing the border for health care?
I thought we had people going into Canada to get their prescriptions filled, but I’d hate to use an anecdote and pretend that it is data.
“we were right about the stimulus, and that people are catching on now.”
If you keep saying it long enough…oh wait. The real world will be the decider on this. And keep in mind, if it doesn’t work, it might just be because it wasn’t a big enough stimulus.
YOu’re all bluster.
“Which is, of course, why folks from countries with socialized medicine plans like Obama’s come to this country for treatment.”
No, actually, they come here because we have more advanced medical technology. But don’t let facts get in the way of your biases.
And we have that more advanced medical technology because of the system we have — after all, you wait forever for MRIs and CAT scans in “more advanced” countries like Canada and the UK because of government limits on the number of such diagnostic tests that can be performed.