More Charter Schools For Delaware
I have mixed feelings about Charter Schools. My main problem centers on the Charter School of Wilmington and its Admission Placement test and the way their success is touted – as if CSW teachers/staff/administrators have accomplished an amazing academic feat, instead of the truth: If you only accept the best and the brightest students the grades/test scores will reflect your selective admission policy.
That doesn’t mean that CSW isn’t a good school, but it ain’t performing academic miracles. So my beef is about comparing apples to oranges.
Now we’re adding four more Charter Schools.
•The New Maurice J. Moyer Academy, which would be in the same Eastside building that housed Moyer Academy, which lost its charter last year because of problems including poor academic performance. The applicant for the new charter is K12 Inc., the same charter school management firm contracted by the state to oversee the school this academic year. The school would continue to serve grades 6-12. K12 is a private, for-profit company that also runs Internet-based charter schools.
•First State Math and Science Academy, which would be in northern New Castle County, would focus on math, science and technology. In the 2012-13 school year, it would open to 200 students in grades six and seven. It would enroll up to 500 students in grades six to 10 by 2015-16 school year.
•Delaware Institute of Technology would be a college preparatory school that offers students a focus in the Science, Technology, Engineering and Math program. The school, which would be in central New Castle County, would open in 2012-13 with 180 students in grades nine and 10. It would eventually have 510 students in grades nine to 12.
•I Am Academy Leadership & Technical Institute, to be in New Castle County, would initially open to 400 students in grades six to nine but would eventually grow to 1,060 students in six to 12.
I’m also not that comfortable with the narrow focus (math, science and technology) in Middle School. It strikes me as a bit limiting at that age, but, then again, I thought a Liberal Arts degree was a good launching pad and created a well rounded person. Silly me.
Thoughts?
Tags: Charter Schools, Education
Your nervousness about charter schools is well founded. Does Wilm Charter (and Cab in some ways) skim the cream off the top of the public school student pool? Yes. Does that inflate their scores and thereby drive down the scores of other public high schools? Yes. If my students could get into Wilm Charter, would I send them there? Probably.
As an alum of cab I take offense to the lumping of Cab and Charter together. While yes Cab does by its nature attract more motivated students who in return are more academically engaged, they are not academically screened. Admission to cab is based on a number of categories, but they do not use a placement test when considering admission. Cab has a unique and engaging program to motivate and push students, using their artistic interests to push them academically. So to lump them in with a school who purposefully cherry picks their students academically is unfair.
Another difference: Cab is not a Charter School. It is a Red Clay Magnet school focusing on the Arts.
You made my point about the skimming effect. The net outcome is the other public High Schools have a less itellectually diverse student body.
They are not necessarily academically superior. The school (and the arts) provides them the motivation to work harder. But in a different environment they would not be as likely to perform as well.
Magnet v charter seems like a semantic argument.
“The school (and the arts) provides them the motivation to work harder. But in a different environment they would not be as likely to perform as well.”
I’m not sure this contention could be proved. You’d have to set up some sort of control group, which isn’t going to happen.
In a way it is, J. The real difference is that Cab comes under the umbrella of Red Clay.
Ccsalum, blah blah blAh. Stop pretending that you don’t get my point.
Charter schools, as I understand them, compete with public schools to a certain degree for government money on a per capita basis. The public school teachers I have known don’t like them for this reason.
With that aside, and the fact that they are allowed to exist; certainly they should be allowed to specialize in their curricular goals and choosing students to fit that curriculum. Otherwise we are better off just leaving it all in the homogenized public school form from a taxpayer’s standpoint. And smart middle school students are far more capable mathematically than many would think. I went to high school with a Persian student years ago who had studied higher mathematics in middle school and criticized our American school for re-teaching him what he already knew and had been taught.
certainly they should be allowed to specialize in their curricular goals and choosing students to fit that curriculum.
Then let’s stop comparing them to public schools who take everybody. Let’s test them against schools like Tower Hill or Sanford.
ccsalu
By the way, however much pretend offense you take at having cab and charter lumped together, Charter alum can take double the pretend offense.
“Then let’s stop comparing them to public schools who take everybody.”
OK, provided their detractors stop condemning them just because most produce no better test scores than those public schools.
“Let’s test them against schools like Tower Hill or Sanford.”
Those schools don’t waste everybody’s time by administering those tests.
“Otherwise we are better off just leaving it all in the homogenized public school form from a taxpayer’s standpoint.”
Wrong. Charter schools must come up with their own school buildings, giving them a lower cost per student than public schools. Pretty sweet deal for taxpayers, IMHO.
“The real difference is that Cab comes under the umbrella of Red Clay.”
So does Charter of Wilmington.
“If my students could get into Wilm Charter, would I send them there? Probably.”
That would be a poor idea if your student wanted to go into a field outside the math/science concentration.
I don’t agree, Geezer. Strong math and science education is a great foundation for any field.
Um… CSW is chartered through Red Clay. Doesn’t this mean (and I’m not certain) that they must be located within the RC district. I’m not sure, but is that the extent of RC’s umbrella?
As far coming up with their own building… CSW is located in a RC school and for years paid a ridiculously low rent – was it a dollar? Oh, Kilroy, where are you? So, does CSW really stand on its own financial feet? Bet most of us could afford luxurious accommodations if we didn’t have to pay the mortgage.
There’s also a law on the books (I’ll look for it) that I believe says that a charter school can move into an existing public school if that school is empty or has extra space.
I think a case can be made for having schools with specialized curriculums. It makes sense to teach to students’ strengths. At the same time, I get nervous about boxing children into educational and vocational paths while they are maturing and their brains are still developing. I also worry that some of these paths are weak in teaching critical thinking skills–skills that help in personsal decision making and which help to fashion discerning citizens.
Found the link concerning space.
It’s the “must” that bothers me in that sentence.
So Pandora, you don’t like one charter school’s policy and you therefore don’t like all charter schools? NIce.
As to the comment/misunderstanding:
“Charter schools, as I understand them, compete with public schools to a certain degree for government money on a per capita basis. The public school teachers I have known don’t like them for this reason.”–this understanding is simply wrong.
Charter schools get the same money per student that regular public schools get on a per child basis, except that charter schools don’t get their buildings or other capital costs paid (or contributed to) by the state. They don’t “compete” with public schools for money, they “compete” for kids. Teachers’ unions don’t like them because their teachers have never unionized. Most teachers I know would rather teach at charter schools, where there is more flexibility and less government (and union) intrusion. In fact, that’s why charters can, on average, pay slightly less than public schools–more teachers want to teach there.
Moreover, as most folks know, the Appoquinimink School District is one of the fast growing in the state. When the MOT Charter School opened, it provided space for approximately 500 public school students at no cost to the school district, thus saving taxpayers the cost of an entire brand new school building.
I’m pretty tired of this. I’m not comparing CSW w/ other public hiigh schools – IT IS different for a reason. These students’ needs were not being adequately addressed in their feeder schools – either because the faculty wasn’t there or there was not a critical # of students to run a course at that level. What is wrong with that?? Let’s celebrate excellence! It is just TOO bad that not every student who qualifies by passing the entrance exam gets to experience this great education.
So Pandora, you don’t like one charter school’s policy and you therefore don’t like all charter schools? NIce.
Prove that statement. Go on. Show me where I said this.
“provided, that a school district must make unused buildings or space (defined as space no longer needed, permanently or temporarily, for non-charter school purposes) buildings or space in buildings available to a charter school, and shall bargain in good faith over the cost of rent, services and maintenance related to such space; [emphasis mine)”
what is the concern here?…unused public facilities being used by charter schools…my daughter is in public school…I don’t see any problem with this…
A Center for Research on Education Outcomes (CREDO),at Stanford U, study commissioned by the Charter Schools found that by-and-large, only 17% of charters did better than corresponding Public Schools. 37% did worse and the rest were equal.
http://credo.stanford.edu/reports/MULTIPLE_CHOICE_EXECUTIVE%20SUMMARY.pdf
If you look around, the ones that fit that 17% are all set up to skim the cream, in one way or another, and then you have the high-poverty ones which often tend to struggle.
Well… we see a bit of this problem with Cab and CSW not being able to expand.
Also, would you be okay with a charter middle school being housed in an elementary school? Are you okay with your tax dollars being used for capital expenses that benefit a charter school? Now, many people are fine with these things, but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be factored into the decision. This law doesn’t seem to leave school districts much say in the matter. That’s my problem.
If charter schools were unable to kick a child out of the school, I’d be a lot happier with them. As it is, if a child either behaves or performs poorly, the school can have them sent back to the general population. Generally speaking, non-charters do not have that luxury.
If charter schools were unable to kick a child out of the school, I’d be a lot happier with them.
CSW expelled zero kids last year. I’d say it’s more about how you get in than how you get out.
“It’s the “must” that bothers me in that sentence.”
Don’t worry, it’s been widely ignored so that taxpayer-built structures can be given virtually free to the politically well-connected instead.
“Strong math and science education is a great foundation for any field.”
But a requirement only for those that depend on math and science. I certainly wouldn’t force a kid to go there despite different interests just because it’s “highly rated.” I know a number of parents who disagree with me, and their kids, while academically successful, aren’t exactly thrilled.
Math and science is great, but even so you need at least one great English teacher in your lifetime who will make your mind catch fire with the power of literature. Also you need great foreign language teachers, with the foreign language curriculum terminating with reading real literature in the original language.
Anon – I don’t believe that expulsion is used to remove a child from a charter. I was under the impression that basically, you would be asked to not return the following year.
You are correct, though, the way that people get into CSW is more of an issue than how people get out. But I believe that they are insulated from the year-over-year issues from problem students.
You are probably right about that. It is probably more like a country club membership – peer pressure rather than process.
I clicked through a few Red Clay schools and was surprised to find expulsions were rare. For example at Dickinson HS, 58% of the student body has been “suspended or expelled”, but 0% have been expelled. I guess Dickinson is the last stop.
“I get nervous about boxing children into educational and vocational paths while they are maturing and their brains are still developing. I also worry that some of these paths are weak in teaching critical thinking skills–skills that help in personal decision making and which help to fashion discerning citizens.”
Charter schools teach a well-rounded curriculum, outside of their ‘focused’ specialization. There’s no ‘boxing’ anyone in. In fact, state law dictates such.
Besides, by your standard, wouldn’t all public schools fail the ‘critical thinking/decision making’ skills test that you present?
“Math and science is great, but even so you need at least one great English teacher in your lifetime who will make your mind catch fire with the power of literature.”
No one is suggesting otherwise. In fact, my dear friend recently won Delaware’s Teacher of the Year. He teaches English at Cab. Moreover, as a student in public school, he struggled and received many Cs and Ds. He also had a learning disability.
He turned out very well and teaches with passion. Very ‘good’ or even ‘great’ teachers can be found in a school which has a specialized and focused curriculum. They are not mutually exclusive entities.
This whole thread is moot. With the right wing’s war on rational thought and knowledge going so well, the average American will not be able to tie his own shoes or tell time in 20 years.
Listen to this week’s “this American Life”. Especially the story about the Reagan Library. That will tell you all you all you need to know about how doomed education is in this country.
Boy, did this topic catch fire!!!
OK, I can’t resist. My wife and I went to Dickinson before deseg. I sat on the Red Clay Board for 2 ½ yrs. in the late 90’s. My daughter got accepted to CSW, but “chose” Dickinson, followed by my oldest son doing the same. My youngest son, “choice’d” to Cab for middle school and has now started Cab for H.S.
In the early days of DE Charter’s, they were sold as a proving ground for new and innovative approaches in education that could be evaluated and, possibly, be applied to the rest of system when successful. This system could not only test the educational approach, which a magnet could do just as well, but test innovations in school Administration (i.e. limited bureaucracy… oversight, etc.).
In the case of Charter’s (CSW being the first) in NCC, it was a proving ground, not to innovate, but to build an argument to dismantle the old system. I know, despite DE Law saying that they had to choose students in the case of over-enrollment by lottery, they tested, obtained data from the DSC (NCC Data Service Center) about student’s previous scholastic performance, before ever announcing who got in and who didn’t (if a lottery was applied, DSC did not run it for CSW).
As for money, the “Operating” dollars follow the student. Take the total number of “publically” enrolled students in a school district, divide it by the dollars collected from local, State and Federal sources and you get roughly the allocation provided to charters on a per student basis. My argument was in the case of CS@Wilm.H. (CSW old name), if their enrollment was 100% Red Clay students, they shouldn’t have to pay rent, simply because their parents pay the property taxes that cover “Capital” expenses for that school. And, if they accepted students from outside the district, their rent would reflect a market value of floor space occupied by out of district students.
The long and short of it is…. If a charter intends to prove an innovative approach to education, say that and show us. You want to implement a specialty program like a Technical school, do it through a magnet. You want to create selective program that caters to one community or socio-economic strata, write a check and go away!
Personally, I think the U.S. Needs to do more math and science education. That’s the future for our competitiveness and there aren’t enough qualified Americans taking engineering and science jobs.
I support charter schools. Most are serving the underserved. I have no problem with one like CSW serving an underserved group of achievers. What I have a problem with is state persecution of charter schools for low grades when they are designed to serve students that were previously failing like Postive Outcomes. The districts do not want those students back. They are “trouble makers”, handicapped, or learning disabled and many are from lower social economic strata. What is great is the school gets them achieving. Every child can learn, but not every child learns at the same arbitary pace. What is wrong with recognizing that?
Don’t let your problem with one charter school make you overlook what is happening with all of the rest. Many target the poor, some the inner city, and some just help children develop their talents. Children that are math and science wizs should develop those skills while those with arts skills should develop those. That is a major reason people get bored and even drop out. they are being forced into a generic box. No matter what else is happening in that child’s life, if you catch their interest, they can achieve.
Choice is not some magic wand to solve every educational challenge, but it is one ingredient.
Jack Markell has a lot of control over what goes on in the state ed dept. He also poised to take control over the ‘new casinos’ issue by having sole right to appoint the determining commission membership as per Schwartzkopof’s bill.
The DEM Executive with a full blown DEM Assembly is probably too powerful and we need to keep a sharp eye on things.
If I were to believe the implications of Newshound, then I’d be compelled to believe that the State of Delaware requires charter schools to educate for the development of critical thinking skills, but it doesn’t have the same requirement for public schools. It’s the same old charter-school-nut’s saw: charter schools are held at a higher standard than are public schools.
But in the real world, no one should doubt for one second that there is an institutional inertia about the relevance of teaching critical thinking skills in a charter school whose curricula are centered on, say, manufacturing dedicated, hard-working employees for a credit card company. Such a doubt would lack all credibility.
As an academic teacher at Cab, I take offense to Jason330’s mention of Cab when talking about charter schools. Obviously, you are not familiar with the assessment process at Cab. Students are assessed ONLY on their chosen major. Academics (nor behavior) records are NOT seen by teachers until AFTER a student has been accepted. Furthermore, Red Clay students are accepted, first, based on assessment scores. Other factors, such as a sibling in attendance already, is considered. So Jason, you may want to get your facts correct before commenting on something that you have no prior knowledge!
Oh good lord. I stand corrected. Or something. I’m not sure, because I never said anything about Cab’s assessment process, but gingerly suggested that actors, singers and dancers going to Cab were not going to other public high schools.
“Your nervousness about charter schools is well founded. Does Wilm Charter (and Cab in some ways) skim the cream off the top of the public school student pool? Yes.” Jason330 As you can see by your quote, you referenced that “(Cab in some ways) skim the cream off the top”. So untrue. As I truthfully mentioned, the cumulative files of students who are accepted to Cab do not arrive in the building until some time in August. Teachers of those particular students generally do not look at the files unless it is for reason. Of the 800 or so applications, only 25% (give or take) are accepted due to the lack of space in the building. Of that number about 145 are new 6th graders. Those students not accepted generally go to their home school which is usually a public school in New Castle County. Not every student that gets into Cab is necessarily an “A” student in their academic classes. We have students of all ability levels.
I thank you for standing corrected.
I think the problem is that you think of cream in academic terms. I was speaking of the cream of a student body including the ones that bring life to a school through the arts.
We are probably not very far apart on this. It is just hard to communicate through blog comments.
Perhaps, you are on to something. Most folks (many of whom are those who come to choice open house at Cab) have the impression that all the students do all day is sing and dance down the hallways. As one of my colleagues says at the beginning of our presentationat choice open house, “Cab Calloway is first and foremost an academic school with an arts flavor. We follow the mandated curriculum that all the other Red Clay schools follow. The difference is we do it differently with an arts flavor.”
I totally agree with your previous statement. It is hard to really communicate the genuine feeling. The beauty of Cab is the fact that even though we are a 6 to 12 school, the younger students look up to the older kids and the older students are accepting of the younger students because most of them started out in 6th grade as well. Students are there and strive to do the best they can because there is a waiting list out the door. Cab is by know means an “elitist” school. We have all levels of the socio-economic chain. If you have an opportunity to attend our choice open house in the fall, I think you would be pleasantly surprised by your visit. Have a good night! I have enjoyed our conversations!