Tuesday Open Thread [10.18.11]
One of the reasons many of us have a hard time envisioning Mitt Romney being the Republican nominee is this:
“Romney is not a conservative. He’s not, folks. You can argue with me all day long on that, but he isn’t. … This isn’t personal, not with what country faces and so forth. I like him very much. I’ve spent some social time with him. He’s a fine guy. He’s very nice gentleman. He is a gentleman. But he’s not a conservative,” – Rush Limbaugh.
How do you win the GOP nomination with Rush Limbaugh declaring you not to be a conservative? Unless Rush changes his mind, it won’t be Mitt. There is yet another Republican presidential debate tonight, the 5th since Labor Day. The action starts at 8 p.m. ET and will be broadcast on CNN.
First Read: “So what have learned from all of these debates? Rick Perry, who now has participated in more debates as a presidential candidate than as a Texas politician, isn’t a good debater… The 2012 field, unlike the 2008 one, doesn’t gang up on Mitt Romney, which has allowed him to stay on message… The debates have provided the candidates an opportunity to gain traction (where would Cain be today without them?)… Experience matters (Romney is so much better than he was in ’08)… And, overall, these debates have had a huge impact on the race, because GOP primary voters are paying attention. Deep down, that has to concern Team Romney somewhat. Yes, his debate performances have impressed the GOP establishment and news media. But they haven’t moved the needle with GOP voters — at least not yet.”
China owns America, right? Because China buys U.S. Treasury debt, right? You have heard that time again. Would it surprise you to learn that China only owns 8% of outstanding U.S. debt, while the largest owners are actually American individuals and institutions, which own collectively 69%. With respect to all U.S. Financial assets, not just our debt, China only holds 1% while U.S. Investors own 87%.
Today Hamas has confirmed that one Israeli is worth more than a thousand arab terrorist.
Welcome home Gilad Shalit!
Maybe it’s a bait and switch. If a “conservative” is M-bach, Perry, all those loonies, the GOP nominee will not want to be associated with that.
I still dont believe for a second that there will be any mass exodus of voters from the GOP. THey are sheep, they will vote for who they are told to vote for…. and that will be Romney. mark. my. word
The stats on who owns US debt wouldn’t surprise me, since I’ve posted up a ton of charts on it. What is interesting to me is how that debt is treated, depending upon who is perceived to be the creditor. If it is China, then wingnuts and pretend deficit hawks always have their hair on fire about being at the mercy of the Chinese. In the case of Social Security, the surplus is famously secured by Treasuries (meaning that American taxpayers are the creditors) and Republicans specifically go out of their way to tell people that *that* debt (the debt we owe ourselves) is somehow fake or not real.
Occupy the Dollar
Not sure how legal this is, but it looks fun!
What Digby Said
Fantastic essay on the differences between partisanship and ideology — and how the *Third Ways* and other yearnings for post-partisanship is specifically meant to suppress (or blur) the expression of political principle.
A very rich read and worth engaging with.
To Socialist Ben, “They are sheep, they will vote for who they are told to vote for…and that will be Romney, mark my word”.
Question, if the republicans are sheep for voting for Romney in 2012, What are we going to call the democrats who are going to vote for Obama in 2012?
show me again where there is a strong “grass-root” supported primary challenger for Obama? oh that’s right.
but i admitt it isnt ALL blind allegiance. the GOP voters will vote for whoever ISNT Obama and they will make sure they all vote for the same person so a righty vote split doesn’t happen. I bet there will be a lot of nose-holding, but to anyone left or right holding out hope that a Romney nomination will result in a Michelle Beck 3rd party dark horse…….. you are wrong.
My view on Rush Limbaugh, and other radio and tv shows that cover politics is this, with the information technologies out there, like the internet, it is far, far, easier for anyone to obtain their own information, or do their research over the internet than it was 4,6,8,10,or 12 years ago. So the power that Rush and other talk show host, and TV show host, (such as Opra)have, is gradually diminishing. People are becoming more able to make up there own minds from the information they researched on their own. They don’t have to take a person like Wolf Blitzer, or Bill O’Reily’s word for it.
So I think on both sides of the isle, you will see less following the pack, than in past years. And that is a good thing!
Rusty, you may be on to something here.
I’m wondering, do actual voters, ya know the ones who go to the polls, spend time doing their own research on the internet? How much of those millions and millions of dollars spent on TV advertising is washing over people who won’t vote? Has anyone seen any research on this?
As long as people still chant at political rallies, there will always be more followers than individuals. and yes… i chanted “yes we can”….. actually in all honesty, i stopped with that silliness around the time of the convention……
Rusty, I too voted for a guy i didnt like because he wasn’t the incumbent i hated. Kerry was the WORST candidate on the planet. My point is, for all the “grass roots” conservatism, for the most part, conservative voters will do as they are told….. and the establishment knows this. the voters know this. The GOP primary process is a waste of time and money. Your voice doesnt matter to the RNC.
The problem is that wingnuts just repeat the same things to each other — one of the tells of a talking point here is to copy it in its entirety and paste it into google. If it has a few pages of hits with the precise wording, you’ve got the Borg hive mind working. Meaning it doesn’t — they just hear one thing and repeat it like a game of Telephone. There’s no independent research or independent thought for these wingnuts.
The people said they would be heard
But they couldn’t agree on a word
So they made no decision
And suffered derision
From those who would polish a turd
I’m watching the GOP debate and the candidates are unwittingly talking about ending tax all loopholes. Perry specifically mentions “any” kind of energy subsidies (probably too dumb to know oil companies get these) and Romney talks about subsidies for buying cars or homes (homeowner’s tax credits is the single largest deduction on middle class taxes).