Blaming victims and gun control for shootings – It is what they do
Conservatives, where is your sense of decency? Where is your humanity?
“Where were the men of flight 93???? Someone should have stopped this man,” he wrote. “…All that was needed is one Courages/Brave man prepared mentally or otherwise to stop this it could have been done.”
That was a Arizona state legislator, but how easy is it to predict that conservative Republicans are going to blame the victims, or gun control, the liberal media, or Obama for this.
Entirely too predictable.
The NRA proposes a sweeping ban on movies.
They will blame all of the above. Personally,we need to have better access to the mental healthcare system for people like this before tragedies like that happen. Of that would be a sensible suggestion for the NRA to make while skirting the gun control issue so of course they will be as like to make as my cat will be to get unneutered.
From what I’ve read, one of the initial “signs” with this guy is that he was a consistently disruptive student in his (I think) college algebra class. I am assuming we are talking truly weird disruptive for that to so stand out.
Here’s the issue from a mental health/education perspective. In teaching two undergraduate survey courses per semester, I get about one of those guaranteed per year, sometimes two. Among firty-five students my first priority is to get the nutcase out of my class so that the others can actually learn. In the course of so doing I will normally file a report about the behavior through our “early warning system.” In theory that requires the student to be set up with a counselor who already has a caseload you would not believe. Unless the student is a major from my own department I probably will not ever follow up to see what happened. There are simply too many marginal students, and once the irritation is gone I will then focus on those who want to learn.
I’m not saying that neither I nor the system should not be doing more in these circumstances. Because going apeshit in a theater is not the only bad result. We can end up with rape or suicide or plenty of other bad outcomes. I don’t know, however, if anyone has ever quantified what percentage of these students gets into later trouble–I’m not sure FERPA would allow it.
It is an issue of resources and priorities. I find it hard to believe that student got to me without anybody else ever noticing or reporting him/her.
I don’t know the answer because if the student just says, “Ah fuck college!” and walks away, under the law there isn’t anything we can do to track them nor anyone to notify because they haven’t actually done anything.
Steve, it shouldn’t be the teachers who have to sort these guys out. It should be a national healthcare system that is free at point of service, so qualified professionals can diognose and treat these patients early. As long as health care is not affordable and therefore not utilized, the people will continue to slip through.
Often these people know something is not right inside. If it was free to walkin and say “I think I’m crazy” a lot more would rather do that than take matters into their own hands as did this guy.
We need the same type of healthcare as all those other countries that don’t suffer violence like this.
Forget about guns the NRA has that subject wrapped up. What I like to know is why Law enforcement or the FBI wasn’t alerted that this nut not only bought a armor vest but neck legs and crotch protector along with a armor helmet, He was not a law enforcement officer so why does a civilian need or do with this type of equipment
because he had no record and the law doesnt require it. Everything he did up to this point was well within the letter of the CO law. If that bothers you, you should agree that the law should be changed.
Why does he need this type of equipment? the 2nd amendment “says” the answer to that question is irrelevant.
“We need the same type of healthcare as all those other countries that don’t suffer violence like this.”
Oh, you mean like Norway?
The US ranks 12th highest for gun related deaths per capita in the world, with just over 10 deaths per 100,000 people. And yes, all of the countries “beating us” are developing countries.
Norway has less than half the number of gun related deaths per capita as the US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
So, Yes. Like Norway.
But we’re only No. 17 in gun homicide rate, so there’s that.
Note that 8 of the 11 countries ahead of us are Latin American countries in which arms are easily smuggled in from America and drugs exported back to us. Easy access to US gun shops is what makes the cartels able to cripple the governments of these nations.
The worst country, South Africa, has something as damaging as proximity to the US – its own NRA, the South African Gunowners’ Association (SAGA)
I am probably going to get blasted on this but I had a debate with my significant other yesterday who shall I say is NRA and totally disagrees with me but . . . why can’t large ammunition purchases be kept records of on some law/database from stores and online. This nut purchased 6,000 rounds online. He also purchased all that SWAT gear online and that could also be something that should be registered. What legit purpose would you need that for? That much ammo should trigger some kind of police dispatch/check and/or wait period to receive the order(s) until details are properly verified. I know the argument my s/o gave was practice shooting requires a lot of ammo so large orders sometimes happen. My answer was, so o.k. then he shouldn’t worry about being checked out then, should he?? My 2 cents.
But the yardstick wasn’t gun deaths per capita, it was “violence like this.”
Norway has free healthcare, AND suffers violence like this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks
Norway doesn’t have this kind of violence nowhere near as routinely as we do.
Marge, I’m curious. Are you just pretending to be an idiot, or are you really an idiot? Knowing the answer to that would help me frame my response to your transparently bogus Norway argument.
The Geography of Gun Violence (Data as of 2008.)
I hate nothing worse than wannabe fucking Charlie Bronsons.
It’s nothing more than fantabation from lil men who wish they could ever, please lord, just once! get the girl or experience the showering of accolades in front of adoring compatriots while having Princess Leia place a medal around their neck.
The more probable senerio would be you’re dead because the assault weapon is much faster and powerful than your measly handgun, or you’re in lockup cowering and covering up any orifice because 3 of your hastily shot-offed rounds landed in some innocent bystanders.
But, please! By all means dont let that get in the way of your dreams.
And there’s a wannabe copycat in Maine. This jerk was caught with his arsenal before he could hurt anyone.
“The more probable senerio would be you’re dead because the assault weapon is much faster and powerful than your measly handgun, or you’re in lockup cowering and covering up any orifice because 3 of your hastily shot-offed rounds landed in some innocent bystanders.”
Agreed.
Buying cartridges by the 1000s isn’t unusual at all I’ve made online purchases of that size myself and fired them all on the same day at the range. I usually wait until Cabellas or one of the others has a free shipping event and then buy in bulk.
“By all means dont let that get in the way of your dreams.”
Bingo! The one thing all gun nuts share is a fantasy in which they are threatened with mortal harm but they and their guns triumph because, well, it’s their fantasy.
Artists and screenwriters have been working for decades to rescue Batman from the ’60s TV series and restore his original darkness and moral ambiguity. I think they have succeeded.
Regardless of how it is or would be parsed, there is a Constitutional right to arms in this country. That may be a sucky idea, but it remains a right. And that’s not to say that the Constitution prevents government regulation of firearms.
HOWEVER, we have a problem in this nation in that we somehow let those who are a danger to others or a danger to themselves slip through a crack. Perhaps there are no warning signs and the functionally insane appear normal until until something triggers a response. Shouldn’t there be discussion about warning signs? The gun range owner’s comment regarding Holmes voice mail was that it was “bizarre.” Shouldn’t “bizarre” and a gun range membership application trigger some kind of response in our society? And yes for privacy and constitutional rights reasons we do not have reporting and collection mechanisms that would accurately identify those for whom intervention is necessary, but shouldn’t we have a discussion on what can be done? The gun is the tool, but it is but one of many tools that can be employed. Seems to me the discussion should be about prevention and intervention. Maybe the answer is there is nothing we can do but I wish the discussion would take place.
Full disclosure: I know how to use guns but do not own a gun because I would probably use it.
“well, it’s their fantasy.”
And the thing is they any experienced shooter knows it is fantasy. I doubt a navy SEAL could have taken this guy out with a handgun before being targeted and killed. Any caliber/type rifle trumps a hand gun every time.