DL Open Thread Monday, Nov. 11, 2024
You can find lots of analysis anywhere you look about how and why Democrats lost the election, but you’re going to have to find it without any help from me, because I frankly don’t give a shit. I’ve never been interested in playing armchair campaign manager, and given the stark choices in this election, I’m not inclined to blame anyone but the voters.
Most analysis acts as if voters are empty vessels, free of preconceptions, and whichever party can fill those empty heads better wins. None of it considers the obvious: PEOPLE HAVE AGENCY. They made this choice with their eyes open and did so because they don’t give a fuck about society (or, worse, have all the wrong patriarchal ideas about it), and they’re poor judges of what’s good for them personally. Do you truly think a political party can make up for a society-wide lack of critical thinking and social conscience in the course of a political campaign? If so, you just got a reality check.
In a democracy the leaders are chosen by the voters. If the voters were fooled, that’s on them, and it demonstrates that democracy is a poor way of choosing policy, because people are inherently shallow and selfish. Global warming, to pick the most important example, will never, ever be meaningfully addressed by any democratic government, because it would require a majority of people to sacrifice for the long term. I am too familiar with humans to believe that will ever happen.
Given that no majority of the people will ever do the right thing – do you really think civil rights laws would have passed if put to a plebescite? – criticizing the party, or the candidates, or the strategists boils down to saying “we should have lied to them better.” If that’s what you want to pin your hopes for the future on, bless your heart.
Oh, also, Nancy Pelosi can fuck right off. Self-enriching piece of shit sez wut?
The floor’s yours.
I think LBR is up to the task but not so sure about Coons:
After taking the weekend the reflect on this election result, I think all the middle-aged affluent whites on here should blame Hispanic Latinos in the West and Arab American voters in Michigan. Blame the voters ought to work. The Democrats did everything right. Deflection and no self-reflection are the name of the game
Let’s not sanewash the electorate.
It comes from people playing armchair campaign manager. The media cover politics like football, and people respond accordingly.
How much media coverage was about who was going to win vs. who was going to be affected?
Everybody makes up their own mind. I don’t mind how they voted. Whites in general deserve more blame, as they voted for it in greater numbers and percentages. This is democracy. People know what they voted for. It’s insulting to claim they didn’t.
If Latino men are not interested in protecting immigration, it seems nobody is.
Arabs in Michigan had nothing to do with it, as much as you’d like to think otherwise.
I don’t give a fig what Democrats do or don’t do. As a voter I get a binary choice. All I have to do is determine which one is preferable, same as anybody else. So far it’s never been the Republicans, but I don’t vote for Democrats because they’re “my team.” I don’t have a team.
If it takes a political party to persuade someone to do the right thing, maybe they were going to do the wrong thing all along.
Agree about Nancy Pelosi, where was the house and senate “leadership”? Where were the adults that needed to say “Joe, it’s time to step aside”? This is disaster that will have long term consequences for both the party and the nation. Then again much of this nation deserves Trump, and deserves to pay the coming high price.
Hey Al, how about you take that smug attitude and piss off to France forever? You can sip cafe au lait at some cafe and chuckle in perfect self satisfaction at the stupid Americans.
You, and people like you, ran the Democratic Party into the ground. Your boomer sensibilities don’t carry any weight. If they did, maybe you’d still have a byline or a 9 to noon slot. The base needs its basic material needs met and you are scolding them about social conscience. When red flags were raised about Joe and his ability to run a second term, you and the establishment went all in until the 11th hour, and then steamrolled anyone that questioned the coronation of Harris. So don’t talk about armchair campaign management, because you were one of the worst offenders.
I’m hope you’re happy. You won the cosmic lottery- made your money, built yourself a good life on the backs of future generations, and now can pull the rip cord and parachute to a safe landing on a foreign shore. Bravo.
One other thing: “Global warming, to pick the most important example, will never, ever be meaningfully addressed by any democratic government, because it would require a majority of people to sacrifice for the long term”
See, this is a complete reversal of that we had been told over the last election cycle-such as the idea of a carbon footprint was a headfake pushed by big oil to make consumers, not producers, carry the weight of climate change. I guess this was also a lie? The dem establishment still can’t tell it straight. At least I know you are all-in on the sacrifice. I’m sure you only travel internationally via sailboat
Sorry, I had nothing to do with it. I was against the Clintons and their sellout of the party and the working class from the first, while most people who root for the team were just happy to win again.
“The base needs its material needs met…” Yep, I bet those Republicans will meet them, right? That’s why the people you think you’re championing would tell you to fuck off. THEY VOTED WITH THEIR EYES OPEN. It’s not my fault they still can’t see.
The fact is that the base has its needs met. They have wants, not needs. The people with actual needs can’t even vote, because they don’t have a fixed address.
Your points about climate change show how stupid you actually are. But carry on, you make a fine American.
Fuck, you’re so stupid you don’t know what smug is. I’m not smug, I’m disgusted, not least with people like you.