Tuesday Open Thread
Jon Chait thinks Tuesday’s NY-26 special election is a sign that Republicans are back to being blamed for the slowly recovering economy.
Now there are outdoor smoking bans. That’s too much in my opinion. In fact, since many jurisdictions have taxes on cigarrettes, and largely depend on that revenue in balancing their budgets, the government needs people to smoke. So outdoor bans are self defeating. It might force us to raise taxes on rich people, and we all know how horrible that prospect is.
House Republicans had ample warnings about the political pitfalls of the Ryan plan. And they committed suicide anyway just so Boehner could look tough for the teabaggers. Governor Rendell is right. Republicans are idiots and are unfit for office.
What the White House thinks about the horrid GOP presidential field.
The primary race, most of Obama’s team believes, is Mitt Romney’s to lose. And here’s the case they’d make for him: He was an effective governor of a very blue state with notable achievements (not just health care) to his name, a very smart policy-oriented brain, and an underappreciated asset: he saved the 2002 Olympics—or so the story goes. (Never underestimate the power of Americana during an election year.)
Romney’s problem is similar to Obama’s: he doesn’t play well with downscale voters. He comes off as the manager who fired them, or who cut their wages—the “Richie Rich” know-it-all. Obama’s demerits with these voters are different, but a general election race between the two would leave a large number of those voters up for grabs.
I don’t like being in a smokey room, but I dislike smoking prudes who get hysterical and flap around like a Charlie Copeland out of water if they happen to come into contact with smoke.
“It might force us to raise taxes on rich people,” Oh good lord NOOOO!!!!!
Do outdoor smoking bans extend to smokestacks as well?
I think the argument on the outdoor smoking ban in NYC is because the smokers tend to congregate outside on the sidewalk. This pretty much means that you will be forced to walk through a cloud of smoke to get where you are going.
My sister is allergic to tobacco smoke. Exposure to it above a whiff can put her in the hospital. There are many just like her for whom a walk down the street with 50 smokers standing outside of their buildings is like running the gauntlet.
*eyeroll*
Thank you, LG. Both my parents smoked, and I couldn’t be anywhere near it. We had to move tables in restaurants if the breeze set in my direction. When i was at MtP I couldn’t use the door near the smoking court, ever.
People who can ‘take it or leave it” have no idea.
@Jason…. I am dying laughing over here. “eyeroll” was the perfect response to that sob story. Sorry, Geek, but it was a sob story. I could hear little violins playing. LOL.
Seriously though, I understand, but what is less burdensome: Your sister crossing the street or banning smoking everywhere?
Jason doesn’t think anyone has an allergy to anything. He was once pissed that his kids class was peanut-free… Just because some kid would die if he was exposed to peanuts. The nerve of that school!
Back in my day we ate peanuts and if someone died, then someone died. 😉
peanut allergies… ppfft… What next? Bee stings??!?!
DD – where should smoking be socially acceptable? I don’t have the allergy, but crossing the street isn’t an option when the other side of the street is full of smokers, too.
And honestly, what percentage of them throw their butts away, and what percentage toss them into the street for someone else to take care of?
I’m sorry, but I am a libertarian on the smoking issue. I will accept indoor smoking bans because of the confined non ventilated space and second hand smoke, but outside bans are a bridge too far. I suppose if Geek had his way, he would ban smoking altogether, everywhere, even in the homes of the smokers.
What other addiction is it socially acceptable to partake in 5 or 6 times during the work day?
Caffeine.
Coffee.
And blogging, apparently.
And checking your FacePhone, or your TwitPad, or whatever those things are.
LETS BAN COFFEE!!!!!
At one point, everyone shat in the street.
I can see the conversation now, on the DL of that day :
But Jacob! People need to perform their natural functions! You cannot deny them access to the curb! And what will become of the entire economy of night-soil gatherers! It’ll be an economic emergency!
Ebenezer, we have discussed this. The cost to the community of these waves of cholera has become too high. We need to make other arrangements, despite the displacement of the gatherers. That’s the nature of an expanding London.
And what will become of the entire economy of night-soil gatherers!
Talk about wanting ponies.
I’m not in favor of banning any of it, but pretending that the smoke magically disappears when it is outside is stupid. Dana’s point is well taken, in that we have smokestacks to get the smoke from manufacturing ABOVE where we breath. I think I’d be OK if they all smoked on the roof of their respective buildings.
Back in my day we ate peanuts and if someone died, then someone died. 😉
Del Dem Classy Really Classy Where is the funny part?
This thread was funny and humorous until you humorless people came along.
In case you didn’t notice, the whinking smiley face is your internet signal for the fact that I was joking. You may think it was a bad joke, but I don’t really care.
I think it might have been Steve Martin who said “Having a no-smoking section in a restaurant is like having a no-pissing section in a swimming pool.”
Those who exhibit a lack of tolerance are the first to be offended when their own standard is applied to them. Running for the position of Censor?
Now on the other hand, anon, THAT was funny:)
“What other addiction is it socially acceptable to partake in 5 or 6 times during the work day?”
Viewing porn. Wait.. oh it isn’t? Never mind then. My bad.
@jpconnorjr… um, you’re the one exhibiting a lack of tolerance here, not me. You are intolerant of bad jokes, good jokes, all jokes, smoking, etc.
I’m intolerant of 3rd grade arguments.
Nuh-uh… You’re a poopy-head!
I know you are but what am I?
I’m intolerant of “the man” keeping me from viewing porn 5 or 6 times each work day. Also, made up allergies and Charlie Copeland.
I’m not saying a lot of allergies are fake, but a lot of parents seem to revel in explaining how their child is special and needs special food and attention. If it were discovered that allergies were caused by inbreeding, I bet most of them would go away overnight.
New Jersey Teen Threatened After Issuing Debate Challenge to Michelle Bachmann
http://womensissues.about.com/b/2011/05/23/new-jersey-teen-threatened-after-issuing-debate-challenge-to-michele-bachmann.htm
Unfortunately, since that letter has made the rounds her detractors have gotten a little more vicious and go well beyond peers at school hurling verbal insults. The Associated Press carried a story on Friday that describes the escalation:
Myers challenged the Tea Party favorite in a letter dated April 29. After it started getting media attention last weekend, commenters on Tea Party websites have threatened to publish her home address and some have threatened violence.
The 16-year-old from Cherry Hill says several commenters have called her a “whore.”
Her father, Wayne, says he’s concerned for his daughter’s safety.
But Cherry Hill Police Lt. William Kushina says anonymous online threats like these are usually empty.
Empty perhaps, but nonetheless disturbing and ugly.
The fact that some excitable Tea Party-affiliated adults are threatening a teenage girl and calling her crude names shows how low we’ve sunk and how political discourse has evolved from a battle of wits to a war in which intimidation and threats are the weapons of choice.
These attacks are indicative of a number of issues, primary among them being the idea that strong females who offer “wrong” opinions with must be taken down a notch; they have to be put in their place, labeled in degrading terms, and silenced by any and all means including violence.
This is a child that’s being threatened — by individuals who purport to uphold the finest of American ideals and who believe in the sanctity of the Constitution.
Well, guess what’s in that document? The Bill of Rights which includes the First Amendment: “Congress shall make no laws…abridging the freedom of speech or of the press….”
Practice what you preach. Act like a grown-up. Cease and desist with the bullying. Wake up and feel the shame that comes from picking on a child. Is that really the American way?
I am not a big fan of jokes depicting death, call me crazy. As to bad Jokes:
Whats the differance between an epileptic oyster shucker and a hooker with diahrea??
Geek, we are at about 1st grade dontcha think:)?
An epileptic oyster shucker shucks between fits.
Kindergarten
back to the ciggy discussion, CARS produce much more harmful fumes than a little cancer stick. If you really hate the smell, or are allergic to it, stand upwind of them…. and fart.
Game set match you win. and i won’t tell you to shut up.
I hate cig smoke BUT in the OUTDOORS it can easily be avoided, get that Nanny Bethany Beach?????
It is so breezy on Bethany Beach that some are considering constructing windmills off shore.
SB – actually, there is some debate whether cigarette smoke is worse than car exhaust.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/12481.php
And in certain versions of the outdoors, cigarette smoke can be avoided, in others, not so much.
point taken LG, but im talking more about the guy on the corner with a cig, versus the hundreds of cars on the same street. if we want to debate about making our air cleaner, there are much more harmful things to address.
Teabagz are stupid gullible losers. That is the subtext.
SB – sure, and we do address them with catalytic converters, cleaner fuel, efficiency, etc. There are no such controls on cigarettes.
IIRC, Bethany Beach banned cigarettes on the beach not because of the smoke but because smokers used the beach like a giant ashtray, and it was expensive to clean the beach of the butts.
@Disgusted… it is not the American way, but it is the fascist way.
For many smokers, the world is their ashtray.
For most industries the world is their sewer and the sky is their ashtray.
As to Bethany, that’s MY sand on their beach funded by MY tax dollars.
You want to encroach on my freedoms, then I’ll no longer support BEACH REPLENISHMENT and will actively work against it.
Let the homeowners and businesses SUCKING OFF the GOVERNMENT TEAT put their sand back when the rising ocean and winter storms wash it away.
They should be out there picking up the butts themselves.
What a bunch of ungrateful bastards.
Do you use Bethany Beach to dispose of your used motor oil or old bank statements? Then why would it be cool to use it to get rid of your cigarette butts?
Riiight. Now Liberalgeek is making pretend that you are not supposed to pour motor oil out on the ground. The political correctness around here… boy oh boy.
Actually, I field strip my cigs and pocket the filter for proper disposal whenever I smoke outside.
They can post signs asking the public to do this and how it’s done.
God knows they have enough signs there all beginning with the word NO.
They should all just smoke unfiltered cigarettes.
Look at it this way: Making the town pay to clean butts off the beach makes your drinks more expensive.
I’m just suggesting that dumping things on the beach isn’t within your rights. And I am glad to see that skippertee is a non-polluting smoker.
Honestly, I’m not anti-smoking. I’m against making non-smokers adjust their life to support smokers.
Smokers v non-smokers appears to be a zero sum game. Somebody’s life is going to be adjusted to support the other’s desires.
Bethany, for all practical purposes is a DRY town. No party places, which is nice.
It’s FAMILY friendly.
That’s why this issue seems so out of joint.
Moms and dads don’t smoke the way they use to.
I think this is a Marketing ploy.
As if they need one.
BTW Why are they letting dogs on the beach? The idiot dog owners who let their dogs off the leash are far worse than the littering smokers.
so what is the cigarette equivalent? should people have to exhale through a filter?
I think kicking smokers out into the rain and cold is just fine.
here is a big disclaimer….. aside from large companies who pollute, individuals who illegally dump large quantities of poison, governments who destroy nature and effect the eco system, over fishing/hunting/loggin………
what people do outdoors, to themselves, as long as other people have a reasonable way to avoid them, is their business. Remember, when you move away from a smoker outside to get to cleaner air (if you are in delaware, you are already breathing some of the most polluted air in the nation and it is not because of tobacco smoke), THEY are still breathing in smokey cancer
Bethany has not been dry since 1983. It has a nice bunch of Gin Mills, Bethany Blues etc.
Dogs are forbidden from Bethany’s Beach
I hate when people use the beach as an ashtray, nothing is worse than watching kids using cigarette butts to fortify their sandcastles.
I’m that nasty beachgoer who tells smokers to take their filthy cigarette butts with them when they leave the beach.
OK,jp, I sit corrected.
Exactly anon, and somehow in that equation, you’re the asshole…
And Jason, it isn’t a zero sum game… On side of the argument is doing something that they know is killing them, the other side is specifically not engaging in that behavior.
It’s simple, really, and will just take a week or two at the beach to train the local wildlife.
When you are at the beach, bring empty Marlboro boxes with you. You know, those distinctive red and white boxes. Give several boxes to every member of your family. Fill the boxes with tasty treats for seagulls.
Every morning, flash the red and white box at the seagulls. Tap it a few times, like smokers do, then begin distributing food FROM THE BOX. Refill boxes as needed until seagulls are trained to fly at the box in vast squawking flocks, with or without food.
It is probably best to feed them french fries from the box, so that they easily recognize the french fries when they are taken from the box. We should also make an effort to encourage the birds to take the fries from our hands and even hanging out of our mouths.
I’m a smoker who tells other smokers to take their cigarette butts with them. Personally, I use an empty water bottles as an ashtray.
In a lot cases, I’ve found the behavior of smokers to be considerate. Most will move away from other people to light up. We’ve become very aware of our surroundings, and the way some non-smokers feel free to lecture us quite loudly.
But here’s a thing… why aren’t we banning perfume/cologne. Sheesh, the way some of this stuff stinks up a room.
Tell’ em pandora!
Testify!
Why do smokers think they stop smelling like smoke once the cigarette is out? Somebody fresh in from a smoke break can still make my eyes water.
Hardly a day goes by without a smoker in the car in front of me tossing their butt out the window.
As for perfume, I haven’t seen the statistics on the health effects for the people that aren’t wearing it. But yes, it can ruin a room for hours.
What a trial your life is. How do you manage? As this thread grows, it is making me want to take up smoking. I’ve never seen a bigger bunch of smoking prudes flapping around like a Charlie Copeland out of water.
i hear John Erection (R-Oh) likes to blow smoke at babies.
Do you see what’s happening here?
We are intramurally fracturing our tight, concise consensus on all things liberal.
Divide and conquer.
Who is the agent of discontent with this secret agenda?
I foresee an epic Jason v. Geek cage death match looming.
let’s all just sit down and have a smoke together
skip, im sure you’re unstable enough to get an MMJ script big enough for all of us
Socialistic ben- I’m working on it as we speak. Got a year to establish my PTSD.
If it works out and we meet, why, we shall smile.
If there has to be a falling out between me and LG, I’m glad that it is over something as important as the rights of non-smokers.
[_______________________________________________________________]
The above pan is to catch the sarcasm dripping from Jason’s last comment.
I’ll challenge Jason to the deathmatch at the Wailers show at the Queen tomorrow night. I’m sure there will be a lot of smiling and smoking there.
I’m not a smoking prude, but smokers that think they have the right to engage in their habit without regard to the impact on others is asinine. I have several family members that smoke, and I have smoked socially in the past.
And the next time you pull up to a stoplight, open your door and look down, I’m guessing a dozen butts at any given light.
Only two more casinos? If they are so great for the economy, why not twenty more? Why not put slot machines in the DMV? Where is the bill to legalize and tax prostitution?
Rep. Williams said the criteria in his proposal are more objective and finance-driven, which will increase the fairness and transparency of the process. He hopes to have the bill heard in committee shortly after session reconvenes next week and have the legislation enacted before session recesses on June 30.
I hope this bill sinks just like the last two.
Republican Congressman tells old lady to move to Canada for health care.
What if it turned out that exposure to outdoors second hand smoke was actually worse for your health than the addition of two casinos to the state? What then?
Then….. the space time continuum ruptures, destroying the universe.
Do outdoor smoking bans extend to smokestacks as well?
Somebody with a fabulous and dogged lawyer and a good team of world-class toxicologists could make this case.
I’ve been at conferences with folks who have sat around mapping this out — using smoking bans to try to get a way more rigorous emissions control regime pushed.
Democracy in action right here:
http://www.codepink4peace.org/article.php?id=5837
Any of you supposed crusaders for justice care that the guards in the people’s house are putting any plebes that dare voice an opinion in the freaking hospital?
Guess that’s what happens when you speak out against war or Israel in the people’s house these days.
I’m surprised y’all aren’t a bit more interested when one of your owns getting beat down for speaking out.
Sup wit dat DE liberal. It cool with you guys for liberal activists to get stomped on?
Dear idiot –
I just read the code pink version of the story and even they say that the people that injured her were members of AIPAC, not the guards in the people’s house.
But thanks for playing.
So liberalgeek,
Do you always focus on the minutiae of arguments while refusing to see the forest for the trees?
AIPAC thugs brutally attacked this woman because she expressed an unpopular political viewpoint, and then the guards arrested her. The charge was disrupting Congress, but did any of the private citizens who BRUTALLY ASSAULTED her get charged by the guards? No.
Do you think charges will be forthcoming? I wouldn’t bet on it.
It should bother you that our Congress knows that the best way to drown out a woman getting BRUTALLY ASSAULTED for speaking out against Israeli war crimes is to applaud over it.
I can’t imagine what someone that identifies as a liberal and a geek could be thinking to rationalize this kind of violence against a political activist being essentially applauded by your congress.
And then after the AIPAC thugs beat her down and taught her the lesson, Netanyahu had the nerve to smirk and laugh about how Israel and U.S. are “real” democracies.
And our plutocratic scum of a Congress applauded the whole thing.
AIPAC thugs? Don’t get me started on this arse.
Whybother – you are an IDIOT. (See I can do random capitalization, too.)
The gallery is NOT the place where one goes to be heard in Congress. In fact, it is forbidden to disrupt the things actually going on on the floor from there. Code Pink knows that. To pretend otherwise is a joke.
Code Pink wanted a reaction, and it got one. I am certain that the woman didn’t have a 15 minute speech extolling the virtues of her position at the ready that she was surprised that she didn’t get to finish. No, she had a few slogans and hoped that whoever escorted her out of the hall was going to be a Capitol policeman. She would then complain that she was denied her right to free speech.
Cry me a river. Code Pink got what they wanted.
well “whybother” – when one is disingenious with the TRUTH the first time and misrepresents the story..
it will then thusly follow that everything one says afterwards will be looked at with a slanted view…
so, you dun fucked up with your lies in the first post – dont expect to be listend to or taken seriously after that. you may think it “the minutiae of arguments ” we call it the TRUTH and that dear, makes or breaks your veracity. The devil IS in the details.
you made your bed – you lay in it